Lvl 5 Warlock/Paladin build help

[AchwardSilence]

First a little background: I'm playing my first game in years this weekend. I've always been more about playing interesting over optimized. That being said, I like to optimize what I can out of what I find interesting. With that in mind, I've discussed some ideas with the DM and decided that a Drow is thematically appropriate for his campaign. So I'm making a "light" based Drow. Yes, I'm aware of the inherent problems with this, and yes, I'm willing to eat the disadvantages of it because it works for the character (which I won't get into as I'm looking for help with mechanics).

The character "feels" better as an Undying Light Warlock, but also works well as a Paladin. The party (currently consisting of a Druid, a Bard, a Sorcerer, a Barbarian, a Wizard, and a Fighter) could use a healer, as I guess the Sorcerer has been handling most of the healing so far. So a Paladin makes sense for that. Warlock and Paladin seem to synergize pretty well. Most of the advice I've seen online seem to recommend a 5/5 or at least a 6/4 split between the two. I'll be starting at Level 5. Do you think I should take 5 levels in one and work toward the split at my next advancement, or do a 4/1 or 3/2 now? I rolled my Abilities, and before any racial modifiers or ASIs I got 7, 10, 11, 13, 14, and 18(!). Any advice on Ability allotment, Paladin Oaths, Warlock Pacts, etc. would also be greatly appreciated.

I'm feeling more like a Dex build than a Str build, though I know I can't just dump Strength if I'm going to multiclass.

[Foxhound438]

the one 18 you have is pretty great, but past that multiclassing is going to be really hard stat wise, considering you need 13 in str and want 14 in con either way.

For starting out i'd say either go 5 in one or 5 in the other. Level 5 in this edition is more or less the "power spike" level, where martial classes go to 2 attacks per turn and casters get spells like fireball. a 4/1 or 3/2 split is almost always going to fall leagues behind a 5/0 in either. the biggest saving grace in your case is that cantrips scale with character level rather than caster/class level, so if you do decide to split out the gate you'll have a pretty strong eldritch blast to work with. However, at that point your paladin levels are more or less useless to you, as you don't get anything hugely beneficial from there for a while if you're stuck on the blast plan. Smite only applies to melee, lay on hands scales especially poorly if you don't go full pally, and all of the channel divinity options for paladins are pretty limited in usefulness to a blaster, save for vow of enmity.

[AchwardSilence]

I'm leaning toward Paladin 5 and I'll look at maybe taking a dip into Warlock at my next level, but I'm not sure. My main problem is one I need to decide for myself: Would I rather have the flavor of the Warlock or the healing of the Paladin? I know this isn't something the forum can help me with.

[Arial Black]

Variant human, put the 18 in Str, the 7 in Dex and the 14 in Cha, the 13+1 in Con, the 11+1 in Wis and the 10 in Int.

Take your first two levels as a Pal and use your bonus feat for Heavy Armour Master. Wearing heavy armour means your low Dex won't lower your AC.

Then take 3 levels of War to get Pal 2/War 3. Take the fiend patron and the Pact of the Chain to get an imp (which stays in raven form).

You use armour of agathys to get 10 THPs and deal 10 cold damage to anything that hits, and since you reduce incoming damage by 3 your THPs last longer.

Use a Paladin slot to cast hex, and you have a short rest slot to Divine Smite.

Take the GWF style, and get booming/green-flame blade to do decent damage with your one attack, which should be at advantage because your invisible 'raven' has used the Help action. You also have eldritch blast (with hex) for ranged attacks.

After Pal 2/War 3 it's up to you whether you get more Pal or War levels. The feats Warcaster/GWM are all good. Ideally, you want Pal 5 for Extra Attack, Pal 6 for the Aura. You want War 9 for 5th level slots, War 11 for an extra short rest slot (more smites!) and War 14 for Hurl Through Hell.

Still plenty of ways to individualise. Paladin Oath (Vengeance seems to fit Fiend patron but it's up to you) and warlock invocations/spells are all flexible.

[bid]

It's a hard fit with drow.
Str13 Dex16 Con11 Int7 Wis10 Cha19 seems best, and you need to boost Con13 with your first ASI.

You really want paladin 6 asap to cover the party.


The SAD alternative is Str13 Dex12 Con14 Int7 Wis11 Cha19, tomelock 3 / paladin 2. You must use shillelagh, but Dex14 will be enough for medium armor. That might have better flavor with undying.

[djreynolds]

Level 11 Paladin is improved divine smite, basically 1d8 extra on every melee attack, does work with two weapon fighting, or PAM, or S&B or greatsword as you said you wanted to be dex, and Vengeance paladin gets hunter's mark or you can use the warlock's hex, can snag eldritch blast and agonizing blast for potent ranged attack.

Level 12 warlock is life drinker, which adds your charisma to your pact weapon, does not work RAW with two weapon but does work with PAM, can still get 2 levels of paladin for smiting and 6 levels of Aura of protection

So for me, its one of those above, this will steer your player choices

I like heavy armor master, but it non-magical damage, I would prefer resilient con, but HAM is very good.

For me, PAM will squeeze out all the goodies, 2 attacks and a bonus with either improved divine smite or life drinker.

You could throw 7 in dex, and it becomes a 9, your AC with plate will be 17 instead of 18

The beauty of this build is, you can be the ranged attacker with Eldritch blast and not even play a paladin

Big party

[Arial Black]

You could throw 7 in dex, and it becomes a 9, your AC with plate will be 17 instead of 18

What do you mean by that?

[Innocent_bystan]

Based on your description, I'd go for a Ancients Paladin 7/ Chain Warlock 3 by level 10, and then raise Warlock all the way.

You can refluff Eldritch Blast as Rays of prismatic light or laserbeams.
Your pact familiar can be refluffed as an archon.

Your paladin auras will significantly reduce the amount of healing the party will need. I'd recommend the Fiend patron, again refluffed, because of all the extra fire-type spells you'll get. You could imagine the temporary hitpoint gain as channeling the essence of the earth or something. (temporary HP also lessens the amount of healing you'll need)

I'd go for Paladin 5 to start with. You might miss out on the magical goodies, but the raw power of Extra Attack is amazing.

[djreynolds]

What do you mean by that?

If you are a drow you get +2 dex, go heavy armor. That 7 you rolled place that in dex and +2 dex from drow you have a 9.

Plate is an 18, -1 for dex, and your AC is 17. Not bad.

You are playing a drow paladin, with some warlock, why not play really off and have a non-dexterous drow paladin.

[Lollerabe]

Guess Arial was trying to school you on the ac system, you don't suffer any ac penalty for having -dex if you are wearing heavy armor in 5e.

[djreynolds]

Guess Arial was trying to school you on the ac system, you don't suffer any ac penalty for having -dex if you are wearing heavy armor in 5e.

Really, only initiative takes a hit? Well then dump dex totally.

[Tarvil]

Go Paladin 6/Warlock X for that cool Aura of Protection, Paladin Spells and Sacred Weapon (If you want Undying Light Warlock, Devotion seems like obvious choice). If you wanna be better caster, go Paladin 2/Warlock X.

[Innocent_bystan]

Out of curiosity: how do you envision this character attacking?
Because if you're planning to primarily use ranged attacks, you should prioritize 2 levels of Warlock. And the extra attacks feature isn't as important because your Eldritch Blast does this automatically. And with a 17 in cha, the +2 from Drow and half an ASI, you'll cap your maximum damage.

[Arial Black]

Guess Arial was trying to school you on the ac system, you don't suffer any ac penalty for having -dex if you are wearing heavy armor in 5e.

Spot on!

I thought that's what he meant, but I wanted to be sure before I waded in. :smallsmile:

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Another option: Half Elf, Cha 18+2, Str14+1, the rest as you like, probably Con13+1. (I might dump Int rather than Dex, because of saves and initiative, but Dex isn't that important.)

Pa2/Tome3, Fiend. Shillelagh, either BB or GFB, EB, other. Familiar. Agonizing, book. Attacks are 2*EB or one melee cantrip, all based on 20Cha. Starting play like that is kind of nice.

From there, it depends what you need or want. Great places to end range from Tome7/Pa13 through Tome14/Pa6.

Anyway,

Ken

[Easy_Lee]

I recommend a straight devotion paladin. It sounds like that's what your party needs (protection and healing), and it should fit your concept nicely based on what I've read of it.

Edit: plus, you can RP it exactly like Drizzt and be a total Chad, but in a helpful good guy sort of way.

[cZak]

I'm currently playing this; OoA 6/ Undying light 2.
Paladins are power houses in terms of damage output when needed. With this chassis, I used the options of the two classes for fluff & 'strategerie'; control of the battle field & out of combat/ RP options.

Combat options:
Devil's sight is nice, but niche.
Repel blast to open some breathing space.
Misty visions

Out o combat:
Mask of many faces, Beguiling influence, Misty visions, Beast speech


If you're going Undying light warlock, which adds Chr mod to fire & radiant damage:
- Skip EB & use Firebolt (+Chr mod)
- GFB is better than multi-attack when opportunity presents in my opinion (+Chr mod)
- Divine smite is radiant damage (+Chr mod)

[tieren]

The SAD alternative is Str13 Dex12 Con14 Int7 Wis11 Cha19, tomelock 3 / paladin 2. You must use shillelagh, but Dex14 will be enough for medium armor. That might have better flavor with undying.

This is the right answer, particularly if starting at level 5 because you jump right into the sweet spot. I am building towards it with a new character right now and getting there is a bit of a grind.

You start with the two levels of paladin, for your armor, fighting style, lay on hands, weapon proficiencies, spell casting and smiting.

Then you go the three levels of warlock to get Eldritch Blast, pact features, invocations, and short rest recharging pact magic slots (which you can smite with).

For the pact you want tome. This allows you to take the druid cantrip shillelagh as a warlock spell and makes Charisma then your attack stat, meaning you only need the 13 strength for the multiclass requirment, and can get max use out of that 18 Charisma (casting and combat stat - SAD).

You delay getting extra attack with this approach, but cantrips scale with character level not class level, so you'll have two EB rays so can generate the same or better dpr for at will dmg.