Building a fighter//barb for a friend but I don't really know the classes that well

[Da Beast]

So a friend recently joined my gaming group and doesn't know the game very well. I'm building him a character for Sunday and he wants to play a simple beat stick character. The game is gestalt so I thought I'd build him a fighter//barbarian to keep things mechanically easy to play but I want to make sure he has some options in combat to help him learn how to play the game and keep things from getting boring after a few sessions (I charge, I full attack. I charge, I full attack...). The only problem is I've kind of avoided classes like this so far and don't really know the options available to them. If anyone could help point me towards feats/rage powers/archetypes/whatever to create an easy to play but still interesting character I'd appreciate the help.

[Novawurmson]

Instead of Fighter//Barb, what about Barbarian//UnRogue? All you need for Barbarian is Power Attack and Raging Vitality; Rogue gives huge out-of-combat benefits (skill points means things to do) and also a combat objective (flanking). For rage powers, I love Strength Surge+Knockdown for a control option in combat.

Just seems a bit of a shame to go Fighter//Bard. You're mostly just getting bonus feats.

[trikkydik]

what book exactly are you using? because a half orc or human barbarian with high strength, dexterity and constitution can be pretty menacing by itself. Just don't waste time with whirlwind.

Armor - Mithril chain shirt +4 AC, +6 max dex, 0 penalty checks (add 1500 gp to the cost)

Weapon - Greatsword (2d6 + strength) (if using magic weapon,

Convince the dm to allow rage to be used more often than just once each battle.

Feats:
Blind fight
combat reflexes
Power attack
improved sunder - tell him to use sunder to destroy enemies' shields and weapons. Mad pluses for sunder if using a greatsword
endurance
die hard

Bonus Newbie feat- see if the DM will give him improved unarmed strike for free, in case the newbie loses his weapon.

good luck

[Florian]

Barbarian//Fighter can be fun and effective if you include the right elements. It can also be more versatile than a simple "beatstick" and form a good entry-point for learning to play other classes, but can also raise the expectations of how a class should perform.

The "Barbarian" side of things is easy: Regular Invulnerable Rager "Come and Get Me!" build. This needs no finesse and will manage to power through next to any regular encounter without breaking a sweat.

The "Fighter" side of things will get a little bit more complex, as it centers on the Relic Master archetype and the bonus feats more or less all go towards Item Mastery feats to gain a broad range of effects.

Feats are simple here:
Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Raging Vitality, Improved Critical, Dazing Assault, Improved Bravery, Inspiring Bravery, Combat Reflexes, Strike Back.
Rage Powers are simple, too:
Superstitious, Witch Hunter, Spell Sunder, Reckless Abandon, Surprise Accuracy, Come and Get Me!, Eater of Magic.

Equip with a Furious Nodachi/Naginata and Adamantine Do-Maro, Torc of Lionhearted Fury, Helm of Fiersome Mien, Headband of Havoc, Cord of Stubborn Resolve and watch the carnage. Remember to pick Item Mastery feats that go along with the equipment and have at least CHA 13. Relic Master adds UMD to class skills, so have a Wand of Greater Celestial Healing around for a pretty high Fast Healing.

[johnbragg]

Consider Fighter//Sorcerer or Barbarian//Sorcerer. Player'd have only but so many spells to master, and you and he can pick ones that help him beatstick--shield, true strike, shocking grasp, expeditious retreat (with the right feats), enlarge person, jump are all spells that fit well with beatsticking.

If you're willing to screw around with spell list access, shillelagh from the Druid list.

[Pugwampy]

This down my alley . Take only one level in fighter and barbarian level the rest .

Choose a dwarf , half orc or Half ogre race . Big fat great axe and whatever armour you want .

Basic feats like power attack , cleave , toughness and improved initiative .

Usually I have newbie take whatever we need within the group at the moment and if he is addicted afterwards then we let him choose what he wants .

[Seppo87]

Go Dwarf and take the Goblin Cleaver line, + Weapon Trick.
Now you can cleave and Vital Strike at the same time.
Make sure you get a permanent Enlarge Person asap, and take the Lunge Feat.
Select appropriate archetypes to maximize either reach or base weapon damage.

Not optimized but simple, fun, and incredibly satisfactory when dealing with hordes of weaker enemies.

I wouldn't go Fighter//Barbarian for 20 leves tho. You can make a Fighter/Barbarian multiclass on one side, and perhaps Cleric on the other side.
The character would be much more versatile and fun.

[johnbragg]

Another option for a gestalt beatstick is use the gestalt levels to buy monster levels. Not sure what level you're starting at, but instead of a Water Orc Fighter//Barbarian 4, be a 4 HD Ogre with 4 Barbarian levels gestalted in or a 12 HD Hill Giant with 12 Barbarian levels.

If you want, you could figure out a beatstick monster advancement track.

(Not sure how LA works with gestalt, but someone else should.)

[ghanjrho]

Another option for a gestalt beatstick is use the gestalt levels to buy monster levels. Not sure what level you're starting at, but instead of a Water Orc Fighter//Barbarian 4, be a 4 HD Ogre with 4 Barbarian levels gestalted in or a 12 HD Hill Giant with 12 Barbarian levels.

If you want, you could figure out a beatstick monster advancement track.

(Not sure how LA works with gestalt, but someone else should.)

Not addressed in the gestalt rules. Letting LA/RHD occupy one half is the common ruling, however.

[Da Beast]

My friend wants to play a half orc and I don't want to throw anything too complicated at him, so no water orc dragon born or monster hit dice. The DM is pretty lenient on character rebuilds so depending on how my friend is feeling about the game after a few sessions I might push him to rebuild for something like spell casting or sneak attack but until then just letting him attack with a couple more options should be good.

I built most of the character before these replies came in (sorry:smallredface:) and so far I have an invulnerable rager on one side with no archetype fighter on the other. I'll ask him about taking a fighter archetype before we play but I want his approval before committing to any particular one. For feats I've given him weapon focus/specialization great sword, powerful maneuvers (improved sunder, bull rush, drag, and overrun rolled into one feat, power attack is now a default option instead of a feat), and destroyer's blessing to help him make use of sunder. I was going to give him lesser beast totem in preparation for (greater) beast totem but that still leaves me with two two feats and one rage power to select which I'd like to use to give him another trick to chose from in combat. The group already has a player specialized in tripping so I'm avoiding building for that. If anyone can suggest feats or rage powers to add another option or two I should have everything I need to finish up for tomorrow.

[Captain Morgan]

Vanilla Fighter is fine if you have Advanced Weapons Training and Advanced Armor Training in the mix. However, if you go Lore Warden you'll get some extra skill points and huge boost to CMD. Martial Master (or going Brawler instead of Fighter) will net you flexible feats on the fly. This is probably too complicated for a new player, but you could do a lot of wicked things with a Brawler/Fighter Gestalt combined with feat tax break home rules like you described.

Good Barbarian rage powers include Superstition, Strength Surge, Witch Hunter, and Spell Sunder.

[upho]

My friend wants to play a half orc and I don't want to throw anything too complicated at him, so no water orc dragon born or monster hit dice. The DM is pretty lenient on character rebuilds so depending on how my friend is feeling about the game after a few sessions I might push him to rebuild for something like spell casting or sneak attack but until then just letting him attack with a couple more options should be good.

I built most of the character before these replies came in (sorry:smallredface:) and so far I have an invulnerable rager on one side with no archetype fighter on the other. I'll ask him about taking a fighter archetype before we play but I want his approval before committing to any particular one. For feats I've given him weapon focus/specialization great sword, powerful maneuvers (improved sunder, bull rush, drag, and overrun rolled into one feat, power attack is now a default option instead of a feat), and destroyer's blessing to help him make use of sunder. I was going to give him lesser beast totem in preparation for (greater) beast totem but that still leaves me with two two feats and one rage power to select which I'd like to use to give him another trick to chose from in combat. The group already has a player specialized in tripping so I'm avoiding building for that. If anyone can suggest feats or rage powers to add another option or two I should have everything I need to finish up for tomorrow.Ah, using these house rules (http://theworldissquare.com/feat-taxes-in-pathfinder/#dw_accordions-3-nav_menu-dw-widget-1), I believe? Smart DM.

The basic rage powers are easy (emphasis on those allowing new mechanics): Superstition, Witch Hunter, Reckless Abandon, (Greater) Beast Totem, Come And Get Me!. In addition, I'd really recommend Spell Sunder (excellent with a sunder focus) if it can be combined with Internal Fortitude and a Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon (Ioun Stone) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/scarlet-and-green-cabochon), allowing him to rage-cycle (start and stop raging at-will by being immune to fatigue, thus allowing him to use Spell Sunder and other "once per rage" powers as often as he wants). Combine with Strength Surge for increased success rate. This is slightly more complicated to use in combat, but he'll be more than ready to learn new things by the time it comes online (8th level, at the earliest), and it can be very effective.

Then I need to ask a question with regards to the simplicity: Is it OK with a build that is pretty difficult to plan and level up, but easy to play once you grasp the mechanical combos, or should it be a build which is simple both to build and play?

The reason I'm asking is because you can do some pretty amazing things with that fighter side, and they're mostly easy to really easy to play in combat once someone has explained how the mechanical combos work, but they're quite a bit trickier to understand if he's leveling up himself (for a beginner, combined melee mechanics can quickly get very difficult to translate from rules texts into practice). For example, specializing in Dirty Trick can be great for a barb//fighter, since the Savage Dirty Trick rage power gives him an ability to make more than two Dirty Tricks per round by replacing melee attacks when combined with the Quick Dirty Trick feat, and the numerous bonus feats allow him to quickly get all the other Dirty Trick feats (besides Improved/Greater Deft Maneuvers) and supporting feats (Combat Reflexes etc). And then there's archetypes and/or Advanced Weapon Training options to consider.

But before taking a look at those shenanigans, there are some good and less complicated options: Extra Rage Power is of course a great choice and something he'll want anyways, and a simple yet effective combo in most fights during at least earlier levels is Intimidating Prowess + Cornugon Smash, which simply adds some free action demoralizing debuffing power to his melee hits. Furious Focus is also good, but starts having a meaningful effect only from 4th level and up (I'd retrain Weapon Focus/Specialization by that time unless they're needed as prerequisites for something really amazing, since they're pretty mediocre by themselves).

[Da Beast]

Then I need to ask a question with regards to the simplicity: Is it OK with a build that is pretty difficult to plan and level up, but easy to play once you grasp the mechanical combos, or should it be a build which is simple both to build and play?

I want it to be simple to build and play. I'm hoping that after a level up or two my friend can do everything on his own and only need advice about which feats/powers to take. That way he'll feel encouraged by what he's learned to do on his own and become more confident in his ability to play the game.

[upho]

I want it to be simple to build and play. I'm hoping that after a level up or two my friend can do everything on his own and only need advice about which feats/powers to take. That way he'll feel encouraged by what he's learned to do on his own and become more confident in his ability to play the game.Aight, seems like good thinking (and makes me wonder yet again why the only beginner in my group is playing a friggin' magus of all things :smallconfused:).

That makes things pretty easy, I think. And I just realized that judging by the number of feats and rage powers, he's starting at 5th level, right? If so, I'd recommend the following a "supercharger light" kind of build:

Feats
1 - Powerful Maneuvers, F1 Weapon Focus (heavy blades) replace with 1 level of Master of Many Styles Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/master-of-many-styles), for Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist and Dragon Style as bonus feats.
2 - F1: Charge Through
3 - Destroyer's Blessing, F2: Raging Vitality
4 -
5 - Furious Focus, F4: Extra Rage Power (Overbearing Advance)

Rage Powers
2 - Superstition
4 - Witch Hunter
5 - Overbearing Advance (via Extra Rage Power)

A simple charge and sunder focused base, allowing him to ignore allies and difficult terrain when charging, and to overrun and deal Str damage to one foe on his way to his charge target. By replacing one level of fighter with one level of MoMS monk, he gains the otherwise expensive but great charge feat Dragon Style as a bonus feat, plus better saves (+2 to all). I would definitely wait with the Beast Totem rages until as close to 10th and the Greater version as possible, since he has no use for the claws anyways.


And for later levels, something like this:

Feats
6 -
7 - Extra Rage Power (Spell Sunder), F6: Greater Overrun
8 - Retrain Destroyer's Blessing for Extra Rage Power (Strength Surge) (he'll have enough rage rounds anyways by now)
9 - Extra Rage Power (Lesser Beast Totem), F8: Extra Rage Power (Beast Totem)
10 -
11 - Greater Sunder, F10: Combat Expertise (if he has the Dex to make it worthwhile)
12 -
13 - Horn of the Criosphinx, F12: ?

Rage Powers
6 - Overbearing Onslaught
7 - Spell Sunder (via Extra Rage Power)
8 - Strength Surge (via Extra Rage Power), Internal Fortitude (don't forget the ioun stone)
9 - Lesser Beast Totem, Beast Totem (both via Extra Rage Power)
10 - Greater Beast Totem
11 -
12 - Come and Get Me!

By 12th level, he'll be able to pounce for lots of damage, overrunning and dealing Str damage to several opponents on his way, making an AoO against each he also knocks prone (ie beats CMD by 5+). In addition, he'll be able to use sunder - boosted by sunder feats and Strength Surge - to dispel enemy spells, and can make an AoO against each enemy that tries to attack him, interrupting the enemy's attack. Guaranteed to be fun in combat!

Hope this can be suitable.

EDIT: Equip with a +X furious impact greatsword, for example. /EDIT

[Captain Morgan]

I don't honestly think Fighter is a great way to go then. Fighters are hella complicated to build. Maybe try Babarian/URogue? Or Barbarian/Inquisitor? Barbarian/Slayer? Not only will these be more straightforward to build, but you'll wind up with lots of skill points and other class abilities and wind up with a stronger, more well rounded character. A raging Barbarian with Judgement and Bane up will do more damage than a Barb/Fighter anyway, and will tons of skill perks and spells to boot. The only downside is Inquisitors are a little math heavy with all the self-buffs.