Who would make a better paladin, Captain Kirk, pre-fall Miko or Obi-Wan Kenobi?

[Duke Malagigi]

Who do you think fits the mold of a paladin better? Should it be James T. Kirk, the lecherous Captain of the original Enterprise, responsible for the origin of "redshirt" as a term for nameless NPC's who die an untimely death? Or should it be Miko, before she went nuts and slaughtered Shojo? I'm voting Kirk.

Miko: 3
Kirk: 7
Picard: 1
Obi-Wan Kenobi: 14
Neither: 4

[GolemsVoice]

Hmm. I second your voting for Kirk, but not entirely. While Kirk is a "good" Paladin, DnD Alignment-wise, he does not always fulfill the lawful part. Miko's goodness on the other hand, was always questionable, but she certainly was lawful.

[Counterpower]

Is "neither" a valid vote? I mean, I like Star Trek, and I think Kirk would be an excellent guy to be around. But I don't really think he's a paladin. As for Miko...... considering, even pre-Fall, the had the character traits that led to her Fall....... no. Just no.

[Akaziel]

Even though I don't watch Star Trek, I STILL think Kirk would make a better paladin.

[kpenguin]

I say neither. Quite frankly, I think Spock would have made a better paladin then Kirk and as for Miko...

[blackout]

KIIIIIIIIIIIIIRK! He would make a better paladin, definitely.

[Arnen]

Well, Kirk would make a BETTER paladin, though still not a particularly good one.

[BardicLasher]

I vote Picard. Picard was Lawful Good and them some. Kirk liked to bend rules, but Picard was Lawful all the way.

[blackout]

So was Miko. :smallannoyed:

[yoshi927]

*puts up flame shield*

Miko is awesome!

*cowers back under flame shield*

[psychoticbarber]

Definitely a "neither" vote from me.

I wonder if Kirk even ONCE paid more than lip-service to the Prime Directive?

Though now that I say that, I'm not sure there was a Prime Directive in that era, so flamers, please don't hurt me.

Miko is...questionable. She certainly jumped to a lot of wrong conclusions.

Could I get more PC than that? lol.

[Ithekro]

Spock is the more honorable, though Kirk is honorable, he just cheats as much as possible. There is no "no-win situation".

Actually it might be interesting to see a Paladin giving neck pinches to those he needs to capture alive.

Now Klingon Paladins...there is an interesting question. If you are going for total honor you look that that camp...specifically Worf.

Pre-fall Miko is a Paladin, just a little bit too "letter of the law" rather than "spirit of the law". She's not good as a paladin, but still qualifies.

(Neither)

[Tirian]

It is challenging to make a direct comparison between working for Starfleet and following a god. But according to my brief wikiresearch, Kirk violated the Prime Directive on at least six occasions, and Picard had over nine himself. If the Federation were an omniscient god, one would suspect that it would be less than pleased with such conduct regarding its most important tenet.

[Duke Malagigi]

As for those who say that Worf, Picard and Spock are better paladin role models, I can say but thing to you. You're right. Worf, Picard and Spock would make much better paladins than Miko and Kirk.

[SolkaTruesilver]

It's funny you compare alignement requirement with StarFleet officers, because it is exactly what I was wondering..

If I made a Star Trek RPG, (the PCs would NOT be StarFleet officers. They would more likely be smugglers, or mercenaries, dealing and running in trouble against StarFleet, Klingon, Romulans and Dominion :smallcool: ), StarFleet Officer would be a Prestige Class. But not "alignement requirement", it would be more of a "Percepted Alignement Requirement" (a.k.a. StarFleet Command has to think you are at a maximum 1 step away from LG)

Remember Sisko's words in "Rules of Engagement":

"We are StarFleet Officers, Worf. It means we never put civilian at risk, or even POTENTIALY at risk. Sometimes it means we loose the battle, and sometimes we loose our lives. But if you can't understand that, then you can't wear that uniform."

StarFleet Officers are supposed to be paragon of virtues, all of them (except an irrational number in their high command who violate a lot of rules.. but that makes somewhat good plot). Which it explains why StarFleet is so keen on hunting down renegades, and to punish traitors.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Now Klingon Paladins...there is an interesting question. If you are going for total honor you look that that camp...specifically Worf.



If I had to choose a class for Worf, it would be Knight/Barbarian, or maybe Kensai.

He's just too damn good at combat. Have any of you read "Left Hand of Destiny"? The best klingon novel ever.

Ever.

[Nomadic]

Pssh, forget star trek, I vote obi wan for paladin. :smallwink:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Kirk. Beyond doubt. Improvements over Miko include flexibility*, intelligence, respect for fellow sentient beings and overall good-guy-ness.

*He's still Lawful- you'd have to be to go that far in the military. Lawful doesn't mean 'follows orders blindly.'

Obi-Wan would be a paladin, yeah.

EDIT: Incidentally, SolkaTruesilver, your signature is wrong. The best quote along the lines of yours is: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...but my character is in the STOMACH of the Beholder."

[Basalock]

Pssh, forget star trek, I vote obi wan for paladin. :smallwink:

seconded:smallcool:

[Ithekro]

No. I got lost when so many books came out at the same time around 2000. Read mostly TOS novels before that.

Jedi are pretty much suppose to be paladins, or very close to it.

[dehro]

neither... miko was "made to fall"
and Kirk cheated on his exams (admittedly cheating and defending the act as thinking outside the box hereby saving his lower regions from a good spanking and expulsion from the academy sounds very much like the sort of stories paladin players give you when you point "unpaladinesque" behaviour of their actions)

but no...neither would make a good paladin.

I second the jedi diversion.

[PsyBlade]

Kirk would make a better Paladin than Pre-Fall Miko. He has an higher than average chance of falling, but he'd still be better than Miko.

As for Picard, he may have 9 violations, but consider this: TNG lasted 7(?) seasons, TOS lasted 3. 6 for 3, 9 for 7, which is the better ratio? Picard is actually better at keeping the Prime Directive than Kirk. Further, I'm pretty sure Picard at least tried to avoid breaking the Prime Directive, so if he was a Paladin his deity would not have punished him. Kirk on the other hand would only make note of the Prime Directive when it was convenient or the better idea to maintain it.

Also vote for a Jedi option.

[Tolkien_Freak]

Kirk would be better overall, but Miko would be better at not falling. Kirk seems a little less Lawful than he should be.

[BigDumbFighter]

Kirk? He broke the Prime Directive on a weekly basis. And, even though we've all tried to forget it ever happened, I think Star Trek III speaks for itself.

And yet, still a better Paladin then Miko. :smallwink:

[Arnen]

Oh, snap. Can I change my vote to Obi-Wan? xD

[Sage in the Playground]

Obi-Wan Kenobi (Old) Makes the best ANYTHING.

[kpenguin]

It's Obi-Wan Kenobi. And he isn't exactly the best paladin either. Paladins don't use deceptions, which a Jedi mind trick is.

[Arnen]

It's Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Huh. Don't I feel stupid now. I had that, and then changed it after seeing how it was spelled in the thread's title. :smallsigh:

[Nathander]

I say neither. Quite frankly, I think Spock would have made a better paladin then Kirk and as for Miko...

Eh, personally I would think that Spock would be True Neutral, or at best Neutral Good, in D&D terms. Of the current choices, I'd personally say Obi-Wan Kenobi. Though, as said before, none of them would be superb Paladins. I honestly think the character closest to the ideal paladin that we've seen, other than Soon (though we've still seen too little of him to really rank him) would be Hinjo.

[cucchulainnn]

jedis are good examples of paladins. but, and this is a pretty big but. in all of the movies as a group they rarely told the truth. even when there was no valid reason not to. they also seemed to more interested in maintaining the status-quo then doing good.

[cucchulainnn]

Ohh, Kirk was totally chaotic.

One of the in-between channels on local cable has been playing the old star track episodes in heavy rotation lately. kirk is an egotist and gets jealous pretty easily. In one episode a woman gives him the brush and flirts with McCoy, for the rest of the show he acted like a tool. In an other one they meet a 5,000 year old man who built himself a sex bott. Of course kirk seduces it and wacks the old man. how would you feel if you saved up and built as sex-bot and some one tries to seduce it. i'd be screaming, "dude, where you going with my bot, yoye that's mine, i've got a recite" i'd have kirk in front of judge judy so fast it, ohh you dont know. star fleet didn't even reimburse him the cost of parts.

Kirk is a total pimp, he's a swash-buckling pirate, if he was han solo he would have shot first too. which is why i like him. if anything i see kirk as a dashing-swordsman.

worf's problem with being a pally is low charisma and no empathy for the weak and down trodden. other wise his commitment to honor is spot on in my opinion.

[Kamakazee_Gnome]

Obi-Won Kenobi. Definitely.

Jedi Knights are definitely in the same general "holy warrior, bound in honour" vein, and Kenobi would be a shining example of that.

Kirk is too, well, chaotic; and Miko had some rather severe... issues :smallfurious: .

[Duke Malagigi]

Don't worry Arnen that's allowed. I even changed my own vote as well.

[Duke Malagigi]

It's Obi-Wan Kenobi. And he isn't exactly the best paladin either. Paladins don't use deceptions, which a Jedi mind trick is.

You're right about the spelling. And paladins can deceive they just aren't soposed to lie. There is a distinction. To finish things off in this post Roland (of the Song of Roland), Baron von Munshausen (in Terry Gilliam's The Adventures of Baron Munshausen) and Perry (from Terry Gilliam's The Fisher King) along with Soon and Hinjo are the best paladin examples I can think of.

[Gol_Stoan]

Obi-Wan Kenobi would be the best Jedi, I mean Paladin, yeah that's right :smallbiggrin:

[kpenguin]

You're right about the spelling. And paladins can deceive they just aren't soposed to lie. There is a distinction. To finish things off in this post Roland (of the Song of Roland), Baron von Munshausen (in Terry Gilliam's The Adventures of Baron Munshausen) and Perry (from Terry Gilliam's The Fisher King) along with Soon and Hinjo are the best paladin examples I can think of.

Not using deception is part of the "act with honor" part of the code of conduct. Jedi aren't paladins, so they follow a different Code of Conduct.

[Gnome King]

I also vote for obi-wan.

Cause I havent seen enough star-trek, and miko was terrible.

[Duke Malagigi]

Not using deception is part of the "act with honor" part of the code of conduct. Jedi aren't paladins, so they follow a different Code of Conduct.

Deception could include giving misleading information without acutally telling a lie. This would include evasive answering, dodging question and telling half-truths.

[kpenguin]

None of which are particularly honorable.

[Rad]

Another vote for Obi-Wan Kenobi. Honestly, as much as I love ST, Kirk seems quite NG to me.

[PsyBlade]

Depending on scenario, evasive answering, and half-truths, can be the 'most good' choice. Like saying someone died a hero to his little sister, even though he had been a BBEG in order to right a terrible injustice. True, these situations tend to be few and far between, and are generally to lessen unnecessary pain, but they are better than other options on the g/e scale.

[Quezovercoatl]

Of those three I would have to vote for Obi-wan as Jedi and paladins are more or less drawn from the same Archetype. After him I would vote for Kirk over Miko any day as a case could be made for him being lawful while there is not much of a case to be made for Miko being good, not to mention that the of-the-shelf php paladin is much more anti-evil that it is anti-chaos.
Obi-wan: good paladin. Kirk: not-as-bad-as-Miko paladin.

[Admiral_Kelly]

As far as paladins go:

Obi-Wan > Kirk > Miko

[lord_khaine]

put one vote down for Mike.

havent seen that much star trek, but after what you say he doesnt sound like paladin material.

as for Obiwan, he disqualify for paladin due to being a Jedi, that means he is a bit too passive, and not passionate enough for being a crusader for the cause of Law and Good.

Picard on the other would proberly be a fine paladin

[Emperor Ing]

Obi-Wan. Paladin with a lightsaber FTW
Kirk, sorry, never saw star trek, so I wouldnt know
Miko, I imagine her being more chaotic evil

[Gavin Sage]

None of which are particularly honorable.

Two words: Lawful Stupid

You can be deceptive and still be a Paladin. Its a fine line to walk yes, but it can be walked. And if the Jedi Code does not exactly match a Paladin, its a lot closer then chaotic Kirk (who stole starships when he needed to, from his own people) or crazy Miko

Obi-Wan Kenobi is such a paladin.

[Ancalagon]

Obi-Wan.

Kirk is the incarnation of chaotic good (he does not care for any rules, he just does the things that need to be done, even if it involves rigging tests, telling lies, or stealing capital shipes), so he is absolutely disqualified for a paladin.
Miko sticks to the rules, but is a horrible paladin. Remember, she did not fall for fun but because she is what she is. And she already was what she is before she fell.

[Snipers_Promise]

Another Vote for Obi-Wan.

[Eladrinstar]

Obi-Wan Kenobi. He is the classic definition of a LG character, yet can still somehow be awesome.

[Emperor Ing]

There are lots of awesome good chars, Mace Windu--->LINK CONTAINS EXTREME LANGUAGE http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7443690929319682211&q=mace+windu+uncensored&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
ok what others are there

[Yeril]

Miko, since she was already the most highly trained and one of the highest ranking paladins in the azure city, and captian kirk was a space man.

[yoshi927]

*puts up flame shield*

Miko is awesome!

*cowers back under flame shield*Incidentally, this is a vote for Miko. :smallbiggrin: She's not a very good paladin, I'd agree, but better than Kirk. Although, if we're bringing Obi-Wan into things, it's tough...

[Luklan]

as for Obiwan, he disqualify for paladin due to being a Jedi, that means he is a bit too passive, and not passionate enough for being a crusader for the cause of Law and Good.

I disagree. You can be a crusader for good and law and still be passive.

I played a Paladin who acted purely as a Guardian, more than a crusading warrior, studying all the aspects of a situation and the possible consequences before acting. Often, he wouldn't even attack evil unless it attacked first. Killing Evil simply because it exists isn't a good act, after all.

*puts hand up for a Kenobi Vote*

[Nomadic]

put one vote down for Mike.

havent seen that much star trek, but after what you say he doesnt sound like paladin material.

as for Obiwan, he disqualify for paladin due to being a Jedi, that means he is a bit too passive, and not passionate enough for being a crusader for the cause of Law and Good.

Picard on the other would proberly be a fine paladin


Do you forget that he almost killed his own apprentice because his apprentice had turned evil. Not to mention yoda proactively attacking palpatine. No, jedi have no problem with destroying evil even before it has set itself up as an enemy to be reckoned with.

Actually the best jedi to use as an example of a paladin would be either mace windu or corran horn. Both of them are very strict about following the rules while still being defenders of good (as opposed to miko who was a defender of law not really a defender of good).

Though my vote is still for obi wan (yea its obi-wan kenobi but when I use the shortened version obi-wan just looks weird to me).

[yoshi927]

Do you forget that he almost killed his own apprentice because his apprentice had turned evil. Not to mention yoda proactively attacking palpatine. No, jedi have no problem with destroying evil even before it has set itself up as an enemy to be reckoned with.

Actually the best jedi to use as an example of a paladin would be either mace windu or corran horn. Both of them are very strict about following the rules while still being defenders of good (as opposed to miko who was a defender of law not really a defender of good).

Though my vote is still for obi wan (yea its obi-wan kenobi but when I use the shortened version obi-wan just looks weird to me).We can't say all Jedi make good paladins. For instance, Kyp Durron? Not paladin material, you'll agree. :smallbiggrin: Qui-Gon is a bit better, but he's not Paladin material either. I think that Corran Horn is more like Lawful Neutral. He was a CorSec patroller before he became a Jedi. The idea is that he follows orders and rules above all. However, he stresses order too much to be a Paladin. If it's not going too far, his folly is almost the same as Miko's. No objections to Mace Windu as a paladin, although he might be likely to fall. (His lightsaber style uses pure agression, so he's too similar to a blackguard for comfort)

[Tawkis]

Optimus Prime.....

I can't resist, 3 days to go and all.

[TheNovak]

Tawkis: 3? Dude, it opens on Tuesday. And showings actually start tomorrow (at least here in southern Illinois.) Also, Prime's THE paladin.

I vote Obi-Wan. I can't recall a single instance of him lying. He even told Anakin about the Council's plans for him, rather than simply omitting that bit of information as he'd been instructed.

Kirk is Chaotic Good, IMO. Maybe Neutral Good. And Miko's Miko.

[Demented]

Qui-Gon is a bit better, but he's not Paladin material either.

What? How?

[kpenguin]

I vote Obi-Wan. I can't recall a single instance of him lying. He even told Anakin about the Council's plans for him, rather than simply omitting that bit of information as he'd been instructed.


Sure he has!

*roughly paraphrasing*

Stormtrooper: We need to see your identification
Obi-Wan: You don't need to see our indentification (LIE!)
Stormtrooper: I don't need to see your identification
Obi-Wan: These are not the droids you're looking for (LIE!)
Stormtrooper: Those aren't the droids we're looking for
Obi-Wan: Move along
Stormtrooper: Move along, move along.

EDIT: And he lied to Luke about Anakin being killed by Vader. And don't give that perspective crap. The way the prequels went, Anakin killed Anakin, Palapatine killed Anakin, heck you could even say Kenobi killed Anakin. Darth Vader was born after Anakin's death. Anakin's death is responsible for Darth Vader's birth, not the other way around.

[TheNovak]

Psh. That wasn't lying! That was a simple misunderstanding. The stormtrooper sure seemed to think so.

[Ithekro]

I believe that would be considered "Suggestion".

[Ampersand]

Paladins are tools for destroying evil, first and foremost. It helps if they're nice and likable and can set a good example for the kids, but it's not strictly necessary.

Given that definition, Miko wins hands down, absolutely no contest. Miko was an attack dog...point her in the direction of evil and watch her tear it to bits. Just make sure you don't get anything that smells evil on your clothes.

Obi-wan comes in second. While he does an admirable job against evil he has a tendency to do silly things like leaving his enemies to their fates instead of putting a lightsaber through their head and wiggling it around a little. Though one must admire his ability to put up with two generations of what must be the whiniest family in the galaxy.

Kirk was only ever after space booty.

[Jawajoey]

Despite his lecherous reputation, Kirk is really a great man, although not Paladin material, I think.

Miko, while effective, was too inflexible and nutso to be a great paladin.

Obi-Wan, though. He's seven kinds of awesome, and he'd make a great paladin. Jedi in general are a pretty good match for Paladin, but Obi-Wan specifically is fricken perfect.

[Luklan]

All these people going on about how Paladins cannot lie really need to lose whatever class gives them the Stick-Up-The-Butt feat. No offence intended, but it's just stupid.

Tyrant: "I know you know the location of the Rebels trying to overthrow me and instill a fair and just government. Where are they?"

Paladin: "NOOOOOoooooo... I can't LIE!"

...So there's your Catch 22. Knowingly and willingly helping Evil is an Evil act, and the above would be more than enough for a Paladin to drop dangerously close to Falling, if not Fall completely. But, according to you, Paladins who lie break their 'code of honour', and thus Fall anyway.

Paladins are Lawful Good, but they are Good before Law.

[kpenguin]

Then they don't speak at all. Not telling the truth isn't equal to lieing. Saying something untrue is equal to lying.

[Ithekro]

That is were the Spock type comes in. He can't "lie" either, but he can exaggerate and give false information when under orders to do so. ("Hours would seem like Days", and "Vulcan Death Grip" respectively).

There is also the Vulcans always tell the truth, followed by "I am lying" bit under order to overload a computer's logic fuctions.

[Luklan]

Then they don't speak at all. Not telling the truth isn't equal to lieing. Saying something untrue is equal to lying.

Fair enough. I still think it furthers the cause of Good far more if you are deceptive in this case, and point him in the wrong direction, thus making the tyrant waste valuable time and resources.

What about using an Invisibility spell to get by bandits who are holding the princess captive, giving her an invisibility potion, then getting the heck out, thus making sure she's safe before assaulting the bandits.

Obviously this is bad too, since the paladin is being intentionally deceptive (Illusion = Deception, Lie = Deception), and thus would break his 'code of honour', making him fall. Despite the fact he purposely made sure that innocent lives would not be endangered :smallannoyed:

[Demented]

Of course, a Paladin would want to bring the bandits in for justice. He might allow for the rogue to sneak away with the princess before he confronts the bandits, but he'd be confronting them anyway, so it's just getting the innocents out of the way.

That said, what's deceptive about invisibility?
:elan: "You can't see me!"
:nale: "Lies, you should fall, paladin!"
:elan: "But... but you really can't see me."
:nale: "...It's an illusion! It's deceptive!"
:elan: "But I AM invisible. There's no faking that."
:nale: "Gah!"

In any case, it (the Code of Conduct in the SRD) says that Paladins should act honorably, which includes not lying... That doesn't mean they can't be deceptive in action, just that they shouldn't lie, as a matter of honor.

[Alfryd]

Picard: 1
Seconded. Picard is probably the most paladinly of the bunch, as it so happens.

[yoshi927]

What? How?He's a loose cannon. He often disregards his mission and breaks rules or even the Jedi Code when he feels that it's necessary. He is Good, but more like Chaotic Good, or possibly Neutral. That's my opinion about him, at least.

[Luklan]

That doesn't mean they can't be deceptive in action, just that they shouldn't lie, as a matter of honor.

What's the difference between being deceptive in action and being verbally deceptive?

THIS is what I'm talking about. It's so borderline people, that you can barely see it. A deception is a deception, whether it's audible, visual or otherwise. Lying is a deception, illusions are deceptions. It doesn't make one any better than the other. THUS, if you cannot deceive evil through words, why are you allowed to deceive them through sight instead? :smallannoyed:

That being said, Obi-Wan still makes a better paladin. Pre-Fall Miko we could all see was going to fall anyway, and Kirk was always about the intergalactic-femme-bootah :smallamused:

It's almost a choice of 'who's less worse', isn't it?

[DM ClemLOR]

Hello.

Captain Kirk - no. He was an hot shot, very often he chose his own way to find the good. He woul dbe more cg then lg.

Miko - well, no. Though she once was a paladin, the very moment she chose to chase down the Order of the Stick, she allready left the path of the lawful good. She didn't know, question or check the nature of the ones who asked her to hunt OotS. We don't know much about her time before that; but with her final departure from the world we can be sure that even during the times before all this she was more near to her then to paladinhood.

Obi - from the list of the three he might be next to the paladin.
He always was a Jedi Knight seeking the good, preserving the rightful nature of relationships between the space civilizations.

Greetings
DM ClemLOR

[gooddragon1]

Obi-Wan Kenobi (Old)

Passes on relationships, most types of love, and power (dark side) for duty = Lawful.

Unwilling to associate with evil

Unwilling to kill his apprentice and giving him many chances to turn back = good.

He's already a paladin and better than most IMO (except maybe picard).

[basilisk 89]

Yoda.

Oh, right. then Obi-Wan Kenobi.

[Alfryd]

Though she once was a paladin, the very moment she chose to chase down the Order of the Stick, she allready left the path of the lawful good. She didn't know, question or check the nature of the ones who asked her to hunt OotS.
You mean her lawful liege-lord who happened to head an organisation of paladins, and said organisation's diviners who positively identified the Order of the Stick as guilty of destroying the Redmountain Gate, and independant witness testimony to various atrocities commited by individuals of a description very similar to the Order, and Roy detecting as Evil?

What the hell is wrong with you.
Gods, I wish people would actually read the damn strips.

Jedi in general are Neutral Good, and thus, not Paladinly material. Kirk is CG, and thus, even less so.

[Icewalker]

Definitely Picard. He'd make an amazing Paladin.

[Tolkien_Freak]

I would say Picard is closer to Neutral Good than a paladin could safely be. I think Spock and Tuvok (and about 95% of all other Vulcans) would do a superb job- they're almost the embodiment of Lawful. Only problem is they're closer to Lawful Neutral.

[Quietus]

Definitely Obi-Wan.

[/2 cents]

[Alfryd]

Only problem is they're closer to Lawful Neutral.
'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one', consistently applied, is to all practical intents and purposes a Good outlook on life. The problem is more that Vulcans would be perfectly willing to discard any given aspect of the paladin code at a point in time when it seemed illogical. Vulcans are quite happy to lie cheat, steal, attack from behind, etc. if they calculate the odds are this will lead to a better overall outcome.

[jamroar]

Jedi in general are Neutral Good, and thus, not Paladinly material. Kirk is CG, and thus, even less so.
Pre-unhinged Miko was evidently a passable paladin, albeit an single-minded and antisocial one (likability is not a mandatory trait for Paladins).

Kirk is definitely not a paladin of any shape or form.

I think the old Jedi order(like Yoda) tended towards LN, while the new order more towards NG. Obi-wan himself seems to be NG, but remember that he and his master were considered misfits in the order of his time.

I agree that Picard would be a far better example of a paladin type character than the three. Or maybe Sheridan from B5.

[DM ClemLOR]

Hello.

>>>
What the hell is wrong with you.
Gods, I wish people would actually read the damn strips.
>>>

Guess what?
Most people judging and teaching others only see their own flaws on others ... So start working on yourself, dude. :smallfurious:

Greetings
DM ClemLOR

[Tolkien_Freak]

Hello.

>>>
What the hell is wrong with you.
Gods, I wish people would actually read the damn strips.
>>>

Guess what?
Most people judging and teaching others only see their own flaws on others ... So start working on yourself, dude. :smallfurious:

Greetings
DM ClemLOR

You have to admit, though, if you had paid attention to the strips, that assessment wouldn't really make much sense. Miko was told by people she trusts UNCONDITIONALLY to go and do that, so she did what she was supposed to do.

[Luklan]

Or maybe Sheridan from B5.

YES!

Sheridan! Sheridan ftw peoples! He had morals and a code of honour, and he stood by it at all times, and he was constantly willing to sacrifice his life for the right reasons. He was AWESOME.

Unfortunately now I have to decide between Obi-Wan, Picard and Sheridan... Actually, I never watched enough 'Star Trek: TNG' to judge on Picard. Scratch that.

...Still no idea. :smallamused: Damn these tough choices, eh?

edit: This has spiraled way out of control of the original topic. We've added 3 people in total, so far :smallamused:

[1337_master]

Obi-wan Kenobi...Duh...

[Baalzebub]

Obi Wan Kenobi, of course!! :smallsigh:

[Alfryd]

We've added 3 people in total, so far...
Lord Soth!
Wheeeeee!


Most people judging and teaching others only see their own flaws on others ... So start working on yourself, dude.
I can see you are irritated. We have so much in common!
Oh wait. The difference was I had evidence.

Yes, I'm a tad snappy, my bad. But you may easily be dozenth person I've been induced... increasingly against my better judgement... to correct on the subject.

[Alfryd]

Actually, as a serious suggestion, I might posit Karl "Helo" Agathon from BSG. (The new series. The default series. The Battlestar Galactica Battlestar Galactica. That BSG.)

[LordVader]

Obi-Wan. He's pure Lawful Good. Never changes. He's what Miko could've been.

[basilisk 89]

Excuse me, but what the bloody afterlife is a Picard?

[David Argall]

Miko - well, no. Though she once was a paladin, the very moment she chose to chase down the Order of the Stick, she allready left the path of the lawful good.
She quite obviously was a paladin in good standing up until she went slicy-slicy with Shojo. Her deeds in taking the OOTS prisoner and to trial are by definition paladin approved.



She didn't know, question or check the nature of the ones who asked her to hunt OotS.
Obeying orders is the very definition of lawful. And Shojo was both well known to her, as her lawful lord, whom she had obeyed countless times in various ways that apparently were LG to the observer.

Miko is the proper choice for paladin here.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Obi-Wan. For sure... Unless he's NG like I think, in which case... I don't know.

[PsyBlade]

Excuse me, but what the bloody afterlife is a Picard?

Jean-Luc Picard of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

BTW Change my vote to Obi or Picard. Either would be best suited, if you ask me.

[Gefangnis]

Obi-Wan would be a terrible paladin. If you've read any of the books about his early Padawanship, they emphasize that Obi-Wan has always disapproved of the strictness of the Jedi code. He is very clearly CG.

Edit: Oops, missed the debate earlier. I love you guys.

I guess I'll add some specifics, then. Remember that time he left the Jedi order to defend those youth rebelling on that planet? He was showing impulsiveness and a willingness to break the rules to get things done. Once again, clearly CG.

I also agree that Qui-Gon would be a bad paladin, maybe even worse than Obi-Wan. At least Obi-Wan grew up a little when he got older.

[Black of Night]

Chuck Norris. :smalltongue:

If it's open to all sci-fi, Delenn from Babylon 5.

[Lorthain]

If he's on the list, Optimus Prime. He even comes with his own plate mail and transforms into his steed.

For listed characters, I favor Kirk. He's Starfleet, which practically defines him as lawful good, and he regularly follows the rules (like making log entries) except in extreme situations. Starfleet captains are required to be adaptable and are given leeway to break specific rules in favor of defending themselves or the Federation, which explains Kirk's behavior in the episodes I've seen and why he never got in trouble (he was even commended for cheating on the simulator). As for all the girls, well, captains and paladins don't have to be celibate as far as I know. Furthermore, I expect Kirk would have fallen from paladinhood in Star Trek 3 (theft and sabotage) but gotten it back in Star Trek 4 (saving Earth, forgiven by the Federation after a demotion).

[Netherwood]

Obi-Wan Kenobi or Picard? Gah! The choices, the choices! Two strong, honorable individuals who defend society against all evils, whether in preserving and supporting the good, upholding order and law, or seeking out and destroying evil on its own ground. Meh, I'm sort of on a Star Trek kick right now, so....

Vote Picard.

[Shadic]

I'm glad I'm not the first person to mention Picard.

I've seen Picard kick a man through a brick wall, and I'm sure that he could somehow associate that with a Paladin ability or two. (Maybe have a few previous levels of Monk?)

[Kurald Galain]

Obi-Wan, obviously. None of the others are even close.

[Alfryd]

Excuse me, but what the bloody afterlife is a Picard?
Okay, now I know you're faking.

He was showing impulsiveness and a willingness to break the rules to get things done. Once again, clearly CG.
That, or he simply believed the greater good neccesitated bending the rules which he also believed to have intrinsic value. Just not greater value than good.

Obi-Wan, obviously. None of the others are even close.
Aside, of course, from actually being paladins.

He regularly follows the rules (like making log entries) except in extreme situations.
Ah, yes, the captain's 'log entries' are well known on most worlds excepting those that reproduce by asexual budding.
I'm sorry. It had to be said.
There's a difference between breaking rules when no realistic alternative exists and breaking rules because you have an unsubstantiated gut feeling it's the better course.

[Ral]

The premise of the question is flawed. Kirk should not even be in this conversation -- not because of any alignment problems, but because ...

Kirk is a GOD. The laws of mortal men do not apply to Kirk. The Kirk makes his own rules, and they are always just. Paladins like Miko can only dream of the day that they earn the right to pray to a god as great and omniscient as the Kirk. Yes, Kirk can be petty and lecherous and all that. So he's a Greek sort of a god, not a Judeo-Christian sort.

And even if he were mortal, Kirk is better than all the others at everything. That's the magic of Kirk! :smalltongue:

As for actual paladins, Obi-Wan is a pretty good one, but of course it's Optimus Prime. Lawful good, plus he's the closest thing to a mechanical "Eternal Champion" you'll ever see!