Sahuagin Character?

[ReaverVonVette]

Trying to make a Sahuagin PC but I can't find adjustments for it anywhere - the Monster Manual says it's a +2 Levwl adjustment, but idk what stats get changed and what racial abilities id receive. Help please?

[WhamBamSam]

Treat the sample statblock as having an array of 10s for even stats and 11s for odd ones. So the stat adjustments for a Sahuagin are Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +4, Wis +2, Cha -2.

You would have 2 Monstrous Humanoid RHD (with the skills mentioned in the entry as class skills), +2 LA (+3 if four-armed), Multiattack as a bonus feat, and all of the listed abilities from the monster entry as racial abilities.

[WeaselGuy]

Trying to make a Sahuagin PC but I can't find adjustments for it anywhere - the Monster Manual says it's a +2 Levwl adjustment, but idk what stats get changed and what racial abilities id receive. Help please?

In a nutshell, you subtract 9, 10, or 11 from their given attributes in order to get it's modifiers. So, with base stats of Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 9, you would get modifiers of:
Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +4, Wis +2.

As far as racial abilities, it looks like you get Multiattack as a bonus feat, a 60 foot swim speed, 60 foot darkvision, and +5 Natural Armor 2d8 racial hit die, and the following:

Blindsense (Ex)
A sahuagin can locate creatures underwater within a 30-foot radius. This ability works only when the sahuagin is underwater.

Blood Frenzy
Once per day a sahuagin that takes damage in combat can fly into a frenzy in the following round, clawing and biting madly until either it or its opponent is dead. It gains +2 Constitution and +2 Strength, and takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. A sahuagin cannot end its frenzy voluntarily.

Rake (Ex)
Attack bonus +2 melee, damage 1d4+1. A sahuagin also gains two rake attacks when it attacks while swimming.

Freshwater Sensitivity (Ex)
A sahuagin fully immersed in fresh water must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or become fatigued. Even on a success, it must repeat the save attempt every 10 minutes it remains immersed.

Light Blindness (Ex)
Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds sahuagin for round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled while operating in bright light.

Speak with Sharks (Ex)
Sahuagin can communicate telepathically with sharks up to 150 feet away. The communication is limited to fairly simple concepts such as "food," "danger," and "enemy." Sahuagin can use the Handle Animal skill to befriend and train sharks.

Water Dependent (Ex)
Sahuagin can survive out of the water for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules).

Skills
A sahuagin has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

*Underwater, a sahuagin has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, and Spot checks.

*A sahuagin has a +4 racial bonus on Survival and Profession (hunter) checks within 50 miles of its home.

*A sahuagin has a +4 racial bonus on Handle Animal checks when working with sharks.

For the record, all of this is just backward engineering from the srd entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sahuagin.htm), taking the differences between an average human and everything on the sahuagin's page.

[Flickerdart]

Treat the sample statblock as having an array of 10s for even stats and 11s for odd ones. So the stat adjustments for a Sahuagin are Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +4, Wis +2, Cha -2.

You would have 2 Monstrous Humanoid RHD (with the skills mentioned in the entry as class skills), +2 LA (+3 if four-armed), Multiattack as a bonus feat, and all of the listed abilities from the monster entry as racial abilities.

Importantly: What this means is that you are a level four or five character for the purposes of monsters you fight, but you only have level two hit points and skills. And this is all before you can pick character classes - a sahuagin with 1 level of fighter would be a level five or six character. I strongly recommend going with the four-armed option even though it costs you an extra level, since you could do cool stuff nobody else can, like dual-wield bows or quad-wield swords.

[WhamBamSam]

Importantly: What this means is that you are a level four or five character for the purposes of monsters you fight, but you only have level two hit points and skills. And this is all before you can pick character classes - a sahuagin with 1 level of fighter would be a level five or six character. I strongly recommend going with the four-armed option even though it costs you an extra level, since you could do cool stuff nobody else can, like dual-wield bows or quad-wield swords.Savage Species has some nifty things for characters with extra arms including Multitasking and weapons designed to be wielded in more than two hands to get more than 1.5 times your Str bonus added to damage.

[KillianHawkeye]

Whatever you do, don't use a character with Level Adjustment as the party tank, because you're likely to have the fewest hit points unless everyone is playing with Level Adjustment. And if you expect to be in melee at all, invest in a high Constitution.

[Flickerdart]

Whatever you do, don't use a character with Level Adjustment as the party tank, because you're likely to have the fewest hit points unless everyone is playing with Level Adjustment.
Not true.

For example, +1 LA to get +6 Constitution (from, for example, Lolth-touched) is a good trade-off for tanking. Consider a barbarian with 14 CON - at level 2, that's an average of 22 hit points, compared to 17 hit points from the level 1 barbarian with the stronger race. After 2 more levels, they are even - 39.5 HP for the barbarian 4 and 40 HP for the barbarian 3 with more CON. By level 20, the level-adjusted barbarian has pulled ahead considerably.

The reason is that you only lose HD+CON for the extra level you are missing, but you're multiplying your added CON by your level for the extra hit points. Even +2 CON at the cost of +1 LA evens out, since the benefit at level 20 is 19 more hit points. It's very hard to get 19 hit points per level without a very good Constitution and an excellent die roll.

This is even more apparent for classes with smaller HDs like fighters or rangers.

[Khedrac]

In a nutshell, you subtract 9, 10, or 11 from their given attributes in order to get it's modifiers. So, with base stats of Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 9, you would get modifiers of:
Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +4, Wis +2.
Slight error above in an otherwise excellent post, you never subtract 9 from a stat unless the creature is using a stat array other than the standard one - it's 10 or 11.

This gives stat modifiers of: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +4, Wis +2, Cha -2

[KillianHawkeye]

Not true.

For example, +1 LA to get +6 Constitution (from, for example, Lolth-touched) is a good trade-off for tanking. Consider a barbarian with 14 CON - at level 2, that's an average of 22 hit points, compared to 17 hit points from the level 1 barbarian with the stronger race. After 2 more levels, they are even - 39.5 HP for the barbarian 4 and 40 HP for the barbarian 3 with more CON. By level 20, the level-adjusted barbarian has pulled ahead considerably.

The reason is that you only lose HD+CON for the extra level you are missing, but you're multiplying your added CON by your level for the extra hit points. Even +2 CON at the cost of +1 LA evens out, since the benefit at level 20 is 19 more hit points. It's very hard to get 19 hit points per level without a very good Constitution and an excellent die roll.

This is even more apparent for classes with smaller HDs like fighters or rangers.

Okay, so there are a few cases where it works provided that the LA is as small as possible and you're getting a Con bonus. The exceptions don't negate the generality that characters with Level Adjustment tend to have fewer hit points.

And just as a point of reference, there are plenty of people who rarely if ever see their characters get to level 20, so maybe that isn't the most useful baseline of comparison. :smallannoyed:

[Flickerdart]

Okay, so there are a few cases where it works provided that the LA is as small as possible and you're getting a Con bonus. The exceptions don't negate the generality that characters with Level Adjustment tend to have fewer hit points.
If you are playing a tank, you are picking up a race with a CON bonus.


And just as a point of reference, there are plenty of people who rarely if ever see their characters get to level 20, so maybe that isn't the most useful baseline of comparison. :smallannoyed:

That's why my post addressed the situation from level 2 onward, AKA when level adjusted races become playable. Do you not think many campaigns get to level 2?

[KillianHawkeye]

If you are playing a tank, you are picking up a race with a CON bonus.

That's an assumption you are free to make, but it's not universally true.


Do you not think many campaigns get to level 2?

Did I say that? :smallconfused:

[Flickerdart]

Did I say that? :smallconfused:

Your complaint was that level 20 is not a good point of comparison to make, but the quoted post started making comparisons from level 2. So either you didn't read it, or you did read it and don't think level 2 is a good place to start making comparisons either.

[KillianHawkeye]

Your complaint was that level 20 is not a good point of comparison to make, but the quoted post started making comparisons from level 2. So either you didn't read it, or you did read it and don't think level 2 is a good place to start making comparisons either.

The post made one comment about level 2 being alright if you get +6 Con for +1 LA, yes, but made more references to how it all turns out at level 20. I did not object to the low level comparison, only the prevalence of comparing the hit points of LA versus non-LA races at level 20.

Since my post did not mention level 2 in any way whatsoever, then I must conclude that either you didn't read it, or you did read it and made unfounded assumptions about my feelings about level 2 based on my feelings about level 20. :smallsigh::smallannoyed:

[Flickerdart]

In short, you are complaining because I discussed more than you considered necessary.

[KillianHawkeye]

In short, you are complaining because I discussed more than you considered necessary.

Was I complaining? I don't think so. :smallconfused:

You seem to be attaching a lot of feelings to my posts which aren't meant to be there. I simply pointed out that not everyone plays to level 20, and that comparisons at that level are not as useful as ones from earlier levels for that reason.

I'm sorry if I come across as harshly criticizing your posting style, because I don't know you and doing such a thing would be absurd (not that that stops most people, I suppose).