Fighting a Crystal Dragon

[Mr. WildeStone]

My friends and I began a campaign to kill a crystal dragon and steal its hoard to be given to a red dragon to put out a hit on a 20th level paladin. Thus far we've gleaned that he's somewhere in the Elemental Plane of Earth, and we're looking for a contact that supposedly knows his exact location. Our party comp is a Sorcerer 5/Druid 5/Arcane Hierophant 6 and my huge constrictor Companion Familiar, an erinyes with 9 ranger levels, a 15th level Cleric of Hextor with a Green Ronin feat that allows him to cast from strength, a 14th level dwarf monk cohort, a Necrocarnate NPC, some hired thugs consisting of a minotaur, an ogre, and four drow, and a kobold conjurer that is close with the dragon who is blinded and enfeebled that I'm considering healing and dominating for later use. I looked at the stats on a crystal dragon in the MMII, but I know it'll be a more complex and challenging confrontation than that. Our DM has literally been playing since he learned how to read. I haven't managed to find any solid advice on this particular subject, so I thought I'd see if I could get any advice here. Aside from general dragon specs and gem and crystal dragons in particular, I can make the educated guess that this one is probably Ancient. Thoughts, questions, ideas?

[trikkydik]

Book says crystal dragons are the friendliest of all dragons, maybe you could use that.

Maybe try sonics, though it depends on how your DM plays it. but sonics usually does well against crystalline structures. (shatter is level 2 spell.)

how strong is this dragon? even though its handicapped right now, i wouldn't play food that can kill you (in response to you thinking about dominating it.)

[Mr. WildeStone]

Unfortunately the dragon is already aware that my character is plotting to steal its hoard, so it's wary. The old party has history with the dragon; my current PC was good until the trials and losses of the adventure warped him. He opted to turn against the dragon after it refused to directly help the party fight an evil wizard that threatened the whole continent. It was capable of scrying through my eyes and the kobold's, which, forgive me, my post was confusingly worded, the kobold is the one that is blinded and enfeebled. The dragon we're going after is perfectly fine, hiding, and likely watching us somehow. Our situation isn't what you'd call optimal. I had to shatter the crystal ball we'd had because I'd originally gotten it from the dragon and it was likely tracking us with it. Our DM says the only reason it probably hasn't killed us by now (though hopefully at this point it'll have more trouble finding us even if it wanted to) is that it stills hold out hope for the good in my PC. I plan on keeping the kobold as a potential bargaining chip, and since contacting the red dragon with the ball my character has been blind to keep the crystal dragon from seeing anything he can see.

[Draconium]

Maybe try sonics, though it depends on how your DM plays it. but sonics usually does well against crystalline structures. (shatter is level 2 spell.)

I don't understand this line of thinking. A dragon isn't actually made out of the same material in its name - Gold Dragons aren't actually mad of gold, literal silver doesn't plate the hides of Silver Dragons. So why do people assume Crystal Dragons are actually crystalline in nature?

In regards to the OP, Crystals usually don't get along well with Wire Dragons, and I would assume the feeling's mutual. Perhaps see about recruiting any Whites that may have an enmity with this particular Crystal? Though if you do, have a plan in place to make sure they don't take off with the hoard instead.

[trikkydik]

I don't understand this line of thinking. A dragon isn't actually made out of the same material in its name - Gold Dragons aren't actually mad of gold, literal silver doesn't plate the hides of Silver Dragons. So why do people assume Crystal Dragons are actually crystalline in nature?

"An amethyst dragon has lavender skin and scales that are shaped like naturally formed mineral crystals. When it first hatches, its scales are a light, translucent purple shade. As it grows older, they gradually darken and take on a crystalline quality."

What about this explanation is confusing to you?
It makes perfect sense that a CRYSTAL DRAGON would have CRYSTAL SCALES.

[trikkydik]

Unfortunately the dragon is already aware that my character is plotting to steal its hoard, so it's wary. The old party has history with the dragon; my current PC was good until the trials and losses of the adventure warped him. He opted to turn against the dragon after it refused to directly help the party fight an evil wizard that threatened the whole continent. It was capable of scrying through my eyes and the kobold's, which, forgive me, my post was confusingly worded, the kobold is the one that is blinded and enfeebled. The dragon we're going after is perfectly fine, hiding, and likely watching us somehow. Our situation isn't what you'd call optimal. I had to shatter the crystal ball we'd had because I'd originally gotten it from the dragon and it was likely tracking us with it. Our DM says the only reason it probably hasn't killed us by now (though hopefully at this point it'll have more trouble finding us even if it wanted to) is that it stills hold out hope for the good in my PC. I plan on keeping the kobold as a potential bargaining chip, and since contacting the red dragon with the ball my character has been blind to keep the crystal dragon from seeing anything he can see.

Sounds like a fun game, and your PC should be scared lol. See if you can make it come to you for "a negotiation," Then try to ambush it, bind/hold it, and kill it. LOL youre not gonna be able to kill it.

Maybe set a long intricate trap. do you have access to dynamite or some other type of (Destroy this object) items?

See if you can blow it up using ballistics. i really think the only way to beat the dragon is to outsmart the DM and somehow get the DM to respect you outsmarting him.

Im interested in how this pan out.

[Draconium]

"An amethyst dragon has lavender skin and scales that are shaped like naturally formed mineral crystals. When it first hatches, its scales are a light, translucent purple shade. As it grows older, they gradually darken and take on a crystalline quality."

What about this explanation is confusing to you?
It makes perfect sense that a CRYSTAL DRAGON would have CRYSTAL SCALES.

First off, that's an Amethyst Dragon - no such description exists for the Crystal Dragon. Second, the fact that they only become crystalline in origin as they age must also be taken in with the fact that a dragon's scales become more durable as they age (as represented by their Damage Reduction), not less. Third, you seem to misunderstand the point of my post - that dragon scales may have qualities of other materials, but they are still dragon scales first and foremost, not metals or gems. Finally, that is just a fluff passage anyways - if the creature doesn't mechanically have a weakness to sonic, it doesn't matter if it has "crystal scales" from the fluff - these crystals just aren't that vulnerable to sound effects.

If you want to run it like that in your own games, that's fine. If this DM wants to run it that way, that's also fine. But not only is there nothing in a Crystal Dragon's fluff to support it (aside from a name which seems to reflect more on their scale color anyways), the rules don't support it. Gold dragons don't have softer scales than normal, despite gold being a relatively soft metal. Pyroclasictic Dragons don't harden in water just because they seem to have molten earth for scales. Why should the same principle fail to hold true for this specific dragon?

[Bronk]

I think that you should fight this dragon pretty much the same way you'd fight any other dragon.

Get it alone, hit it with a dispel magic, hit it with a maximized shivering touch, and then overwhelm it with physical and magical attacks as fast as you can.

The only differences would be that it's got resistance to fire 30, and you should hit it with a dimensional lock or a dimensional anchor first thing, or else it could escape using it's supernatural plane shift ability as soon as its initiative rolls around.

[atemu1234]

I think that you should fight this dragon pretty much the same way you'd fight any other dragon.

Get it alone, hit it with a dispel magic, hit it with a maximized shivering touch, and then overwhelm it with physical and magical attacks as fast as you can.

The only differences would be that it's got resistance to fire 30, and you should hit it with a dimensional lock or a dimensional anchor first thing, or else it could escape using it's supernatural plane shift ability as soon as its initiative rolls around.

Yeah, at this level your best option is to use Maximized Greater Dispel Magic (! if you can) Assay Spell Resistance, Maximized Shivering Touch, and coup de grace the paralyzed dragon.

[Âmesang]

Don't dragons often have armies backing them, or was that only in some ancient past/earlier editions? I recall an article about the Orbs of Dragonkind suggesting that even if you're fortunate enough to find an Orb… don't go it alone.

(So I suppose my main suggestion is to expect servants and minions in the dragon's employ?)

[DrMotives]

Yes, dragons typically have minions to defend their lairs, or at least the territory around their lair. Problem with PC advice to this crystal dragon is that the monster description makes no mention of typical allies, only that those who live in frigid mountains are often enemies of white dragons & giants. As this one is homed in the Anvil, those typical enemies won't be present. The PCs should instead prepare for unknown denizens of that place on the Plane of Earth where the dragon lives, which is sadly a large list of possible things. Everything from elementals, xorn, genies, and planar communities of Material Plane life could be the dragon's minions.

[DrMotives]

They're also weirdly non-elemental. While immune to cold, their breath weapon is non-elemental. They are high level Telepaths though, so anything a Telepath can do you can expect from them.

[Âmesang]

…suddenly I want a crystal dragon in a wheelchair teamed up with a phoenix, a cyclops, and a dire wolverine. :smalltongue:

[PraxisVetli]

Wire Dragons

Is this a typo?
Not to be that guy, it's just if there's Wire dragons out there, I need them in my life.

[Âmesang]

Of course dragons have wires! How else do they fly? :smallbiggrin:

[DrMotives]

Of course dragons have wires! How else do they fly? :smallbiggrin:

Ironically, using the dragons from Oriental Adventures leads to underpowered Wuxia dragons, not overpowered.