counterspell ... how often do you cast it?

[krugaan]

valor bard just hit level 10, took counterspell and fireball as magical secrets (to shore up a lack of aoe).

I'm curious as to exactly how often you end up casting counterspell. Our last encounter went terribly because our wizard is new and inexperienced at managing resources (counterspell uses spell slots, but firebolt is free!). On another encounter against a BBEG, both he and I basically tanked the spell casting boss by burning almost every single slot on dispel magics and counterspells.

So ... how much counterspell usage is normal?

[Giant2005]

I haven't ever used it.
It is very rare to come up against an enemy spellcaster, and when I do, I prefer to save my spell slots to counter high threat spells. Thankfully my DM is quite happy to tell us what spells are being cast, so I can pick and choose. As of now, the casters have always been dealt with before they unleashed something worthy of the investment.

[MrFahrenheit]

As a DM, counter spell vs a bad guy who cast fly on himself have ended combat encounters twice now in my campaign.

[MrStabby]

In the campaign I DM they are exceptional when my players cast them, and they cast them whenever they can.

So many spells can make an encounter tough for a party and counterspell is so often worth it. Spending a level 3 spell slot and a reaction to deal with another spell and an action is a great trade. If you have high casting modifier, any kind of proficiency bonus (like jack of all trades) and you can start countering higher level spells then you get superb use out of it.

It is worth taking as a spell, even if it is only of use in 1 out of 3 fights.

[krugaan]

I mean, I know it's an encounter changing spell, or rather an "encounter-changing-spell nullifer", and it's the single best use for magical secrets, etc.

I think my DM is just throwing abnormal amounts of spellcasters at us, and it's turning into more "lets reduce party spell slots / resources through attrition" and less "lets have more interesting and dangerous encounters"

[MrStabby]

I mean, I know it's an encounter changing spell, or rather an "encounter-changing-spell nullifer", and it's the single best use for magical secrets, etc.

I think my DM is just throwing abnormal amounts of spellcasters at us, and it's turning into more "lets reduce party spell slots / resources through attrition" and less "lets have more interesting and dangerous encounters"

Sometimes its the same thing (occasionally).

If every combat follows the same dynamic, it gets boring. Having a fight that has spells that actually do something is different. Having a combat where casters need to manage resources more carefully is different.

[durdo.one]

As a DM, counter spell vs a bad guy who cast fly on himself have ended combat encounters twice now in my campaign.

Counterspell can only be used to interrupt a spell being cast, it does not end the effect of a spell that was already cast. Maybe you meant "Dispel magic"?


So ... how much counterspell usage is normal?

My DM like using all sort of classes for our enemies this is why I have used countermagic a great number of times. He don't tell us what spell is coming at us so it is though to know when you used it efficiently or not (if he makes me do a dice roll I already find it worth it), normally using it with the BBEG is a good call but every encounter is different.

I think this spell is very DM/setting dependent, it can be worthless but it can be awesome depending on the DM/setting you are playing.

[gfishfunk]

Meta-Approach: you can use a spell, and then force the PC to use an arcane check prior to identifying the spell to determine whether the spell is worthy of being counterspelled, such that when the name of the spell is revealed, it is too late to counterspell it.

Realistically: Most GMs will say 'he casts fireball' as the entire descriptor, and you just shout out, "Reaction! Counterspell!"

[krugaan]

Sometimes its the same thing (occasionally).

If every combat follows the same dynamic, it gets boring. Having a fight that has spells that actually do something is different. Having a combat where casters need to manage resources more carefully is different.

Yeah, that's very true. Counterspell is just great when you have numbers on your side (PC vs. BBEG) but terrible when they're not (masses of spellcasters vs. PC).

It'll probably better now that I convinced the wizard to take fog cloud, which is another way cheap way to shut down enemy casters.

[pwykersotz]

My players use it as often as they are able. Any time I have a bad guy cast a spell at them and they have an available counterspell, they use it. I just finished a campaign against a magic empire, so they got some serious mileage out of that.

I would say 50-75% of their first level slots went to counterspell each day in that campaign.

[Zevox]

I haven't ever used it.
It is very rare to come up against an enemy spellcaster,
Basically this. I took it on my current Warlock character way back at level 5 (we're now 9, more than half a year later in real-time), and have gotten to try and use it all of once - and on that occasion I had to roll for it and it failed. My DM just doesn't use spellcasters as enemies much.

[krugaan]

Basically this. I took it on my current Warlock character way back at level 5 (we're now 9, more than half a year later in real-time), and have gotten to try and use it all of once - and on that occasion I had to roll for it and it failed. My DM just doesn't use spellcasters as enemies much.

I guess mileage may vary then. We're doing PotA, so spellcasters like every encounter ... is the norm?

[gfishfunk]

I would say 50-75% of their first level slots went to counterspell each day in that campaign.

Counterspell is a level 3 spell, so none of their first level slots should have gone towards it. Maybe that is what you meant, maybe you had a bit of homebrew, or maybe your players abused it on accident.


I haven't ever used it.
It is very rare to come up against an enemy spellcaster, and when I do, I prefer to save my spell slots to counter high threat spells. Thankfully my DM is quite happy to tell us what spells are being cast, so I can pick and choose. As of now, the casters have always been dealt with before they unleashed something worthy of the investment.

Its as common as the DM makes it.

On a practical note, spellcasters are difficult to manage by DMs because there is a lot of additional things to keep track of: spell lists, spell slots, concentration affects, etc. Because of that, they tend to be rarer. I have personally been making it a point to throw in more spellcasters with simplified spell lists into my games.

[pwykersotz]

Counterspell is a level 3 spell, so none of their first level slots should have gone towards it. Maybe that is what you meant, maybe you had a bit of homebrew, or maybe your players abused it on accident.

It was a typo. :smallsmile:

[gfishfunk]

It was a typo. :smallsmile:

Cool cool. I only mention it so your players don't break or abuse the rules.

The last wizard I played was at level ....6 or 5. ALL of my high level slots were put towards counterspell when fighting a Lich (whose level was adjusted downwards to be a good challenge rating). It was a good strategy.

[Dalebert]

This is one of those spells that when it's good is really, really good. Then you can potentially spend a really long time with it just taking up a spells known or spells prepared slot. I decided not to take it with my sorcerer. Spells known is SO lean and I just have to stick with spells with a broader application.

I did take it as one of my bard magical secrets but I've since realized that he is immune to Cure Wounds and Healing Word so I'm swapping it out for Goodberry. The other bard has it. I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping he continues to show up.

[Socratov]

Counterspell is a lot like shield. it eats up your reaction, costs a lvl 3 slot (at the very least) and even then is not a catch all (unless you cast it waaay higher).

However, and here is where both spells shine, at the moment you really need it, it can not only turn the battle, and encounter, but it can even save lives. It is one of those spells you hope you never have to use, but when you do, it will be paramount to success.

[R.Shackleford]

In my games counterspell, dispel magic, or anti-magic fields just don't exist.

There are zones that cause class features to not work, be they magical or just awesome, these are "real world zones" and work like null-magic/extraordinary/supernatural zones.


In AL games? I used counter spell a lot just to troll the jerk DM who was being a jerk.

[krugaan]

This is one of those spells that when it's good is really, really good. Then you can potentially spend a really long time with it just taking up a spells known or spells prepared slot. I decided not to take it with my sorcerer. Spells known is SO lean and I just have to stick with spells with a broader application.

I did take it as one of my bard magical secrets but I've since realized that he is immune to Cure Wounds and Healing Word so I'm swapping it out for Goodberry. The other bard has it. I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping he continues to show up.

Immune to Cure Wounds and Healing Word? I'm confused.

And wow, sorcs get less known spells than bard, that must hurt. Bards don't actually have it that bad, because we have almost the same number of prepped spells as a wizard, just ... can't change them as easily.

[JeffreyGator]

And wow, sorcs get less known spells than bard, that must hurt. Bards don't actually have it that bad, because we have almost the same number of prepped spells as a wizard, just ... can't change them as easily.

With Magical Secrets bards have more spells prepped than wizards/clerics.

Adjustable preparation = level + mod = 25 @ 20 and 15 @10

Bard knows a set number up to 22 @ 18th + extra secrets.

from 10th on Bards have the most spells prepped 14+2 secrets > 10 + 5

At 18th Lore Bards have 30 spells prepped.

Hmm. NVM the additional magical secrets reads differently from magical secrets and so only lore bards get extra spells known at level 6. so they max out at 24 vs 25.

And wizards don't have to memorize their rituals to cast them.

[Dalebert]

Immune to Cure Wounds and Healing Word? I'm confused.

In Curse of Strahd, if you die, you come back with a dark gift. One is that you are treated as undead with respect to spells and effects and you can spend a hit die to pass through solid objects at night. In many cases, it's very useful like being immune to Hold Person, Charm Person, many of the bad effects of undead like ghoul paralysis. In some cases it sucks, like being immune to Cure Wound, Healing Word, and Raise Dead and being vulnerable to being turned.

[RulesJD]

Counterspell is the seatbelt of the D&D world.

Sure you might not need it 99% of the time, but that 1% time that you need it, it is 100% required. The consequences of not having it in almost all campaigns outweigh the downsides of using up a prepared/known spell slot.

[MrConsideration]

I find my players really love blocking a spell with a Counterspell, too - especially if it were something showy, like a fireball.

I throw spell-casters at my players most every combat with humanoids though.

[R.Shackleford]

I find my players really love blocking a spell with a Counterspell, too - especially if it were something showy, like a fireball.

I throw spell-casters at my players most every combat with humanoids though.

This is a primary example of an excellent DM action.

[Laserlight]

Counterspell takes your reaction, "which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell."

Fireball has a range of 150ft. Fire bolt has 120. Et cetera.

[R.Shackleford]

Counterspell takes your reaction, "which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell."

Fireball has a range of 150ft. Fire bolt has 120. Et cetera.

However battles don't typically take place that far away. A majority of battles take place while you are within rooms, forest, dungeons, and hallways that all have blocking features.

Long range is really niche in d&d.

[Baptor]

it's turning into more "lets reduce party spell slots / resources through attrition" and less "lets have more interesting and dangerous encounters"

This is an easy trap for DMs to fall into. It's happened to me. You lose sight of what is important/fun. Typically it starts when the party wastes a well thought out encounter in short order. The DM becomes preoccupied with making tough encounters to deplete resources rather that smart encounters that challenge the mind. Heart goes out to him.

[Nod_Hero]

In the 50+ sessions we've played so far, it's been cast about 10 times, so not a very high ratio of time. However, all 10 of those times it was crucial to our success and if the wizard hadn't had it memorized we'd probably be playing a different bunch of characters by now. Counterspell has saved our party's collective bacon on several occasions. It reversed momentum on at least two possible TPKs and once stopped the BBEG from healing the forces that were swarming all over us allowing for just enough time to wipe them out.

[Gurifu]

Counterspell can also counter Counterspell and Dispel. Bringing one along gives you an insurance policy for your own high-priority spells.

[xanderh]

I've had counterspell cast on me before when I've used the shield spell on my eldritch knight. It was the only way the enemy non-casters could actually hurt me, because of my ridiculous armour class.