Optimizing Whirlwind Attack

[Specter]

The other thread made me want to find a way to make this ability great. Any help is welcome.

Right off the bat I thought of:

- Action Surge: Pretty obvious, two whirlwinds are better than one.
- Two-Weapon Fighting/Frenzy: For that extra tap against a half-dead enemy. Dueling might be better with the math applied, though.
- Horde Breaker: And yet another attack. Considering three enemies and all of the above, that would mean 8 attacks. Woohoo.
- Reckless Attack: For those moments of despair.
- Shield (spell): Would involve getting some other caster level, but would prove to be solid against several attacks.
- Escape the Horde: Sometimes you may not even want to run away, but if the caster can cast some AoE after your attack you need to get the hell out of there.

What else is nice?

[Easy_Lee]

I built a single-attribute-dependent whirlwind shillelagh ranger a while back: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409319-Character-Build-Whirling-Shillelagh&p=19131972#post19131972

However, note that unless you may move during whirlwind attack, or extend its range some other way, it is in all ways inferior to volley shot. I could have built the above as a faster wood elf with a longbow and volley shot, and it would be an overall better build (especially given the archery fighting style).

Regardless, there's still some potentially cool stuff in there. For instance, you may be able to use plant growth to create your own favored terrain, if the DM is agreeable

[krugaan]

I built a single-attribute-dependent whirlwind shillelagh ranger a while back: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409319-Character-Build-Whirling-Shillelagh&p=19131972#post19131972

However, note that unless you may move during whirlwind attack, or extend its range some other way, it is in all ways inferior to volley shot. I could have built the above as a faster wood elf with a longbow and volley shot, and it would be an overall better build (especially given the archery fighting style).

Regardless, there's still some potentially cool stuff in there. For instance, you may be able to use plant growth to create your own favored terrain, if the DM is agreeable

Well ... it does synergize with GWM. More attacks, more chances to crit, more chances for a bonus attack, although this is kinda weak.

[Saggo]

- Two-Weapon Fighting/Frenzy: For that extra tap against a half-dead enemy. Dueling might be better with the math applied, though.TWF doesn't work because you never took the Attack Action, so only Dueling or GWF (would need multiclass, of course) would work for fighting styles.

[Coyote81]

This only works if your DM lets you bypass the 5' rule for Whirldwind attack itself.

This is the best I could come up with for making whirlwind attack hit the most targets:
Fighter2(3 for champion for extra crit chance for all those attacks) for action surge
Monk3 (Elemental monk) Take Fangs of the Snake
Range15(Hunter for whirlwind)

Turn: -Action for multiattack using fang of the snake to make you unarmed strikes hit at an extra 10f and do fire damage, BA for Flurry of blows for 2 extra attacks
-Action Surge To Whirlwind using unarmed attacks, all of these attacks have +10ft range and you can spend extra ki points(which you don't have unless you take more monk levels) to do extra damage

Seems like a lot of effort to make whirlwind better.

Better Answer, use longer reach weapon.

[famousringo]

Seems to me that the hardest part is getting into a position where you're basically surrounded.

- Cunning Action to Disengage and move deeper into enemy formation.
- Halfling to move through a medium sized enemy's space.
- Acrobatics to tumble through or over enemies (at DM's discretion).
- Jump spell to leap over enemy front line (on the ranger list).

[Easy_Lee]

Stealth into their midst and surprise round. Naturally, volley shot with the bow on a surprise round would be much easier.

[R.Shackleford]

I love a good Paladin Smite Whirlwind when I see one.

[RickAllison]

Fun little combo: Swashbucklers with WA can't be surrounded to get around Fancy Footwork. An Aarakocra with that build can swoop down, attack everyone, and get away without inciting opportunity attacks.

[MrStabby]

Afb at the moment so can't check exact wording, but can you shove on the attack? Mass knockdowns could be funny and probably better than meagre damage spread between so many targets.

If I remember correctly you don't need weapon attacks, just attacks so possibly a vampiric touch might also work?

[Easy_Lee]

Afb at the moment so can't check exact wording, but can you shove on the attack? Mass knockdowns could be funny and probably better than meagre damage spread between so many targets.

If I remember correctly you don't need weapon attacks, just attacks so possibly a vampiric touch might also work?

The shove and grapple rules say you may use the attack action to make a special melee attack. They specifically call out the Extra Attack feature as allowing shove or grapple to replace one of those attacks. However, I don't think it's possible (by the plain RAW) on actions like Whirlwind Attack. I think you have to take the attack action, specifically.

[krugaan]

it's a little sad that an equal level sword burst will probably do the same, if not more damage.

[Foxhound438]

it's a little sad that an equal level sword burst will probably do the same, if not more damage.

you'd have to have a d10 weapon or better to really compete, even on a +5 mod.

if you're using a greatsword you're doing a bit better, until you take in things like evocation wiz's damage boost and half damage on successful saves for cantrips.

That's pretty hard to compete with, on its face, but take into account the other features rangers have access to...

To start, a d10 hit die as opposed to d6 makes ranger a lot more viable than a wizard to be put into position here. Armor proficiency and possible defense fighting style adds to this further.

horde breaker makes whirlwind attack a go-to value play when you're approaching a group of foes, in that you can hit one target twice and any number of others once. You're getting your extra attack still, basically.

hunter's mark ups the damage against your one target that you want to go down fast to 3d6+stat, and you're still hitting it twice thanks to horde breaker, so you've got more or less a "focus down one while also hurting the others a bit" as opposed to "ok amounts of damage to this group but none of them individually will go down for a while"

finally, a ranger with great weapon mastery can prove quite a lot more effective with whirlwind than anything using sword burst.