Indie games...

[The_Weirdo]

Indie games.

How big are they in words?
How well do they sell?
How can indie authors get them through editors?
How do they get advertised?

These and other questions that didn't occur to me, tonight, on the Discovery Channel.

So, everyone ready to discuss this? :smalltongue:

[Domochevsky]

Well, my first question would be: What in particular are you thinking of? A ShMUP would have a lot less words than an RPG, for example.

[Grinner]

Disclaimer: Not an indie developer, just like to believe I might become one.

With that out of the way, let's get started.

1) Depends on genre, as Domochevsky noted.

2) Depends. I would like to introduce you to The Bottom Feeder (http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/), a blog by a long-time professional indie developer. He's got tons of helpful business advice. Pertinent to this specific question, he's advocated the idea that indie games will, for the foreseeable future, be a viable means of income IF you're both lucky and willing to pay the price (that price being the emotional toll of both dealing with the public and dealing with yourself as well as the knowledge that a single bad game can send your business into an irrecoverable death spiral). However, the golden age that came with the rise to prominence of Steam has been over for a couple years now, according to Jeff.

3) Huh? Editors? The whole idea of "indie" is that there is, in theory, no publisher to make happy. Just you, a computer, and the merciless hammer of public opinion.

That said, the digital distribution platforms such as Steam, GOG, etc. have taken to curating their content in various ways to ensure that people don't simply churn out shovelware. This has the interesting effect of in some ways recreating the developer/publisher relationship of yore. You can try to go without these platforms, set up a website, and vend your goods there, but you forego the immense benefits of those purveyors of digital dreams in doing so.

For Steam specifically, there's this thing called Greenlight, whereby people sign a petition or something. If you get enough votes, your game is "Greenlit", and you can commence the business of commerce with your game.

4) Various news outlets report on indie games. Some are just blogs, and some are actual news outlets that have taken to reporting on indie games. The credibility of the latter has come into question in recent years, though. Still, they've probably got enough following that a good report can get some sales. They also tend to keep tabs on Kickstarter campaigns in progress.

Word of mouth has traditionally been a large one, I think. That's actually how I got into Jeff Vogel's games.

These days, I personally tend to just visit sites like GOG or The Humble Bundle during sales and browse through the cheap ones. I also like to pick up bundles, but the Humble Bundle has been providing less and less DRM-free ones lately. (That's another thing; I tend to ignore Steam exclusive games.)

Oh! I almost forgot. There's a couple of game conventions that developers like to rouse some attention from.

[The_Weirdo]

To be sure, I meant indie tabletop RPGs...

To be sure, I also sorta meant "small editor" rather than just self-publishing...

[The_Weirdo]

Aside from that, your suggestions are very helpful indeed and I thank you. *Tips hat* :D

[Emperor Ing]

Uh, are you talking about Indie Games or Indie Books? The way your questions are worded it sounds like you're talking about books.

[The_Weirdo]

Uh, are you talking about Indie Games or Indie Books? The way your questions are worded it sounds like you're talking about books.

Yeah, I meant books. Or, well. RPG game books. :P

I wasn't clear. I apologize.

[Grinner]

Yeah, I meant books. Or, well. RPG game books. :P

I wasn't clear. I apologize.

Ohhhhhhhhh...Well then, ignore everything I said.

Tabletop RPGs are kind of uncharted territory, for me at least. I think there's less interest overall, and consequently, I think there's less market data, marketing research, and less of everything, really.

Let's try have another go at it, though.

1) Depends. Some really artsy types make these small RPGs, as small as a few pages, but intuition suggests those don't do as well. I'd worry more about having unique, intriguing design than raw word count.

2) I heard a joke about RPG publishing once:
Q: How do you make a small fortune publishing RPGs?
A: Start with a large fortune.

As mentioned, since there appears to be a smaller market for RPGs, there's even less money to be made. I'm not sure what the cost of living is like in Brazil, but if it's low, you might be able to make a living selling games through venues like DrivethruRPG. But even then, it's bound to be difficult.

3) Don't know, really, but I understand it's pretty difficult, though. Most just self-publish, I think. I think I saw a few articles about this subject on the web somewhere; I'll see if I can't dig them up.

Also, I remember hearing this from someone else on these forums: "Settings sell". That is, most people already have systems with which they're comfortable, and you need to offer genuinely original mechanics to pull them away from their favorite systems. Thus, it's much easier to sell them settings with which they can use their systems, so the logic goes.

4) Word of mouth. Browsing. Blogs. Can't think of anyplace else that actually talks about tabletop RPGs.

[The_Weirdo]

Ohhhhhhhhh...Well then, ignore everything I said.

Including this? But if I ignore it, I'm not supposed to ignore it. But if I don't ignore it, I'm supposed to ignore it. But if I ignore it, I'm not supposed to ignore it. But if I don't ignore it, I'm supposed to ignore it. But if I ignore it, I'm not supposed to ignore it. But if I don't ignore it, I'm supposed to ignore it. But if I ignore it, I'm not supposed to ignore it. But if I don't ignore it, I'm supposed to ignore it. But...


Tabletop RPGs are kind of uncharted territory, for me at least. I think there's less interest overall, and consequently, I think there's less market data, marketing research, and less of everything, really.

Let's try have another go at it, though.

1) Depends. Some really artsy types make these small RPGs, as small as a few pages, but intuition suggests those don't do as well. I'd worry more about having unique, intriguing design than raw word count.

2) I heard a joke about RPG publishing once:
Q: How do you make a small fortune publishing RPGs?
A: Start with a large fortune.

As mentioned, since there appears to be a smaller market for RPGs, there's even less money to be made. I'm not sure what the cost of living is like in Brazil, but if it's low, you might be able to make a living selling games through venues like DrivethruRPG. But even then, it's bound to be difficult.

3) Don't know, really, but I understand it's pretty difficult, though. Most just self-publish, I think. I think I saw a few articles about this subject on the web somewhere; I'll see if I can't dig them up.

Also, I remember hearing this from someone else on these forums: "Settings sell". That is, most people already have systems with which they're comfortable, and you need to offer genuinely original mechanics to pull them away from their favorite systems. Thus, it's much easier to sell them settings with which they can use their systems, so the logic goes.

4) Word of mouth. Browsing. Blogs. Can't think of anyplace else that actually talks about tabletop RPGs.

On 1, right, good. To be sure, it'll be ALL fluff, precisely so it can be adapted into anything.

On 2, I don't plan on making a living on it per se; I'm a translator. I intend to make some extra cash and so on, maybe get fame in the environs. AND, well, Brazil has a lower cost of living and I do intend to publish in the US. So, clearly, I'm a genius and you should all bow down before my awesomeness and become my minions in my quest for world domination.

On 3, all fluff. Setting sells. YAY! :smallbiggrin:

On 4, I have a few plans once I find an editor that's crazy enough to publish me. And, if I don't... I'll have to try and find free ways to self-publish and to get some illustrations and art...