Where do you keep your philactory?

[KnotKnormal]

I was discussing this with my friends, and we couldn't come up with a clear choice. if you were a Lich, would you keep it on you or hide it away some where no one will find it?

[hymer]

I would not keep it on me. That rather defeats the purpose of the phylactery. I'd keep it in one of my secret bases, wherefrom I could recover and wait out the pesky PCs.

[Keltest]

Keep it on the moon, or in some other environment that is hostile to living beings but doesn't bother Undead. Set up a one way portal between my moon base and some other stronghold. Proceed to not make enemies of other undead with magic.

[Pugwampy]

If you want to be nice to your players hide it in a hollowed out cavity of an Iron Golem or Dragon Zombie stomach . They wont search very hard and probably miss it . Few players are keen to search stomach contents of monsters .

If you want to be nasty the best place to hide the "vase" is on the plain of negative energy . Unless one of your players is a nosferat. :smallbiggrin:

[wumpus]

I was discussing this with my friends, and we couldn't come up with a clear choice. if you were a Lich, would you keep it on you or hide it away some where no one will find it?

First, I would be casting innumerable divination spells until I had an idea on how often my ideas fail (various astral natives waltzing into pocket planes, for instance). But then again, this is likely the assumed behavior of modern [abusive] wizards who learned to be batman over the internet (although I'd suspect any college of wizardry would figure the same out fast).

Pocket planes that are only accessible from obscure locations on the astral plane, preferably with multiple iterated planes and sufficient misdirection into nasty traps (plane shifting in a highly trapped lich's lair is not a safe thing. More than a few adventurers followed a portal straight into an Abyssal prison).

If pocket planes aren't an option, something requiring teleport (and preferably multiple teleports). Note that this would have to change if the DM considered making a campaign resistant to "scry and die". My guess is that an underground chamber that is only accessible by teleport would be in danger of all the scry and die options in the rulebook.

If I wanted to feel like really diabolically proper lich, I would let my enemies guard the philactory. This would likely involve a pocket plane, but with an entrance in a holy shrine, gold dragon lair, or somewhere that a good party would have a hard time convincing the locals to let them in. To be specific, they really shouldn't be personal enemies (who would attack and assist an attack) but merely be more likely the "unhelpful friend my good enemy doesn't want to hurt" and the "enemy of my evil enemies".

[Fable Wright]

If this is 5th edition: I use the Demiplane spell to create a storage depot for it. I can access it or leave it at any time with a spell slot, it's nigh-impossible to find with magic, I can ward it beyond measure, and I can have literally hundreds of decoy rooms floating out there when the adventurers try to look for it.

If this is 3.5e: I willingly give my phylactery to a genie capable of granting wishes, and promise it three favors each time I respawn from it. Adventurers are going to have a hell of a time convincing someone with unlimited wishes, their own small nation of resources, and greed that outstrips a dragon's to part with one of their most unique treasures.

[Orderic]

I generally have three different aproaches to the problem.

1: Place it in an incredibly obscure and secure place. Personal favourite: In the center of the sun of a different solar system, protected by a weirdstone, walls of force, forbiddance, traps, golems, effigies, ice assassins and many, many other things.

2: Protect it against divination and make sure that it can not be easily identified. Then find a way for the good guys to protect it.

3: Make it something that no one in their right mind would destroy. Banish an ancient evil into a pocket dimension and keep it sealed with your phylactery.

[JeenLeen]

Misdirection is also helpful.
In a 3.5 game I was in, we fought a lich that seemed to its phylactery around its neck. We then found a hidden door, which had a chest full of similar phylacteries. (Or maybe it was gold coins, and somehow we deduced one of them was the phylactery. Been a few years.)
We wound up hauling the chest to a prison with anti-magic field set up, to have a safe spot to smash phylacteries in. Anytime the lich started to regen, he was smashed. Repeat until the real phylactery was smashed.

If I were designing a lich I wanted to be smart (which I probably wouldn't do, if I wanted the PCs to actually destroy it), I'd:
-have the lich wear something that could be a phylactery, to fool foolish folk
-have a hidden base full of traps, golems, non-sentient undead/ooze. It is where I relax, not where I have plans in play or meet with minions, so it's hard for heroes for find. Entire place is shielded against teleportation and planar travel, plus various divination wards. (To reach it, teleport nearby and fly, ideally while invisible.)
-maybe install a Magic Mouth to mislead heroes who find it, such as stating it is a shrine to Pelor. If this, then keep the undead hidden further in.
-in it, have a hidden treasureroom where most of my stuff is. Enshrine a fake one there. Have a hidden panel where another fake one is.
-somewhere in the base (not in the hidden treasureroom), have used Stone Shape or similar spells to place the real phylactery hidden into the stone. (If necessary, have a hallowed-out space that fits my body. I forget how the 'nearest space' works with liches regenerating.) Rest and Stone Shape to an area not shielded from teleportation, then port out.

It'd likely be safer to have it hidden somewhere random in a shielded, warded area deep in the earth, but this method makes it easier to keep track of where it is. Same reason I'd avoid something like using a common coin I put into circulation; too much risk I'd lose track of it and something bad happen.

[Stan]

For extra misdirection, don't let anyone know you're a lich. Use illusion spells to look alive or as some other monster. Then people won't think to use divination to find your phylactery in the first place.

[Autocon]

Hide it.
(5e) Use Mordenkainen’s Private Sanctum on the same spot every day for 1 year to make it permanent. Now that you have a warded area that can't be scryed, teleported into, or planar traveled into, ever, have your minion caster use Leomund’s Tiny Hut inside the warded area, and sit in the hut with the phylactery. Or use Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion in the warded area for a more comfortable life than Leomund's hut.

[LordFluffy]

Nice try, adventurer. I'll never tell.

Sincerly,
The Lich

[Douche]

You guys are no fun. If the phylactory is unobtainable, then you don't have a storyline.

Plus, to the guy with the demi-planes... There's no stipulation that you're able to leave a demi-plane. At least, not using that spell.


Anyway, I'd probably leave mine in the crypt of my long dead lover, who was slain in the elven pogroms of 1294. It was her death that led me to becoming a lich, wanting to conquer death, and would be the last thing tying me to my former humanity. It'd be poetic as ****. Of course, I'd have to destroy any trace of my former identity so that would-be adventurers could never figure out who I really was, and they'd have to go through a heavy dose of exposition to figure it out.

Yes, plot would be my armor. Literally plot armor. PCs could figure out how to teleport to the middle of the sun eventually... but making them sit through expository monologues? Muahahaha!!!

[SethoMarkus]

You guys are no fun. If the phylactory is unobtainable, then you don't have a storyline.

Plus, to the guy with the demi-planes... There's no stipulation that you're able to leave a demi-plane. At least, not using that spell.


Anyway, I'd probably leave mine in the crypt of my long dead lover, who was slain in the elven pogroms of 1294. It was her death that led me to becoming a lich, wanting to conquer death, and would be the last thing tying me to my former humanity. It'd be poetic as ****. Of course, I'd have to destroy any trace of my former identity so that would-be adventurers could never figure out who I really was, and they'd have to go through a heavy dose of exposition to figure it out.

Yes, plot would be my armor. Literally plot armor. PCs could figure out how to teleport to the middle of the sun eventually... but making them sit through expository monologues? Muahahaha!!!

Sometimes I enjoy your posts, sometimes I cringe. But this? This, I love.

[Traab]

I would just go with a mystical equivalent of a bomb shelter. Basically, the usual anti scrying warding and such but its a small bunker with the basic supplies I would need in an emergency to help me rebuild or get back into battle. A backup set of gear for example, perhaps the materials on hand to allow me to craft or enchant items that would let me counter whatever my enemy used to defeat me this time. That way when I go after them for revenge, the strategy they used last time will fail miserably.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Do you think you could build warforged out of voidstone, and recreate a pure voidstone dream of metal? I reckon that would be funny to get past the DM. (yes, I'm just throwing awesome options at eachother to see what sticks)

I'd also like to use it as keystone, for the mythal of a flying city, populated entirely by NG priests (who are all tragic orphans and prophecied heroes). Destroy the phylactery, the city drops from the sky.

[Alent]

If using D&D 3.5... I would probably keep it in a Hoard Gullet maintained with permanency, placed on some unsuspecting pious individual that the party would normally never, ever kill, like an orphan nun.

It requires a touch of horseplay and rules interpretation to make work, since Hoard Gullet's target is "you", so if you magic jar into this person and cast hoard gullet, the effect takes place on their person, but as they are not the caster, they are unable to put things in or take things out of the non-dimensional space. (Honestly, they shouldn't even be aware the spell is there for this to work right.)

Regeneration occurs within the Hoard Gullet, when done, teleport out and return to wreaking havoc on the countryside.

As to the clue for them to figure it out and undo it, I point you towards the scenario from the "What does the BBEG want with a baby" thread from a while back. When they find where the baby is imprisoned they find that the her life has been bound to an hourglass that shows how many years of life she has left, and there's six or seven empty hourglasses on the wall and one that's almost empty, along with clues to lead them to divinations for finding who each hourglasse is bound to.

If they use spells to find the bodies of the empty hourglasses, they arrive at tombstones outside nunneries that are entrances to large extradimensional research laboratories.

If I was DMing for a bunch of world of warcraft players, I'd use a housecat named Mr. Bigglesworth instead of random lawful villagers.

Another option would be to use a PC instead of a random person. Imagine their horror upon realizing that they've had a bag of holding in their stomach the entire campaign that they can't use. (Yes, this is what will bother them, not the fact that there's a phylactery and occasionally a lich in it.)

If you really want to be a jerk, find a way for the lich to throw the players in jail. Take their items and leave them on a table outside the jail and make it look like they've been rifled through, and leave them a way to easily escape. They escape with ease, completely unaware that you placed your phylactery in an enveloping pit, dispelled one of their bags of holding and tossed the enveloping pit into the now ordinary bag before the suppression effect ended. (If you ever end up needing to regenerate, you end up regenerating in the enveloping pit.)

Best part is, unless an extremely careful wording is used, attempts to wish for the phylactery or divine it's location will fail/return garbage because they already have it.

I honestly prefer the hoard gullet approach tho'. It allows for varying degrees of breadcrumb trail.

[Noje]

I would hide it under my mattress. Since liches don't need to sleep, why would adventurers even bother looking under a dusty, unused mattress? I'd hide it in a 500 year old crispy sock (from back when my lich was an adolescent) just in case they decided to look under the ancient thing. The disgust alone would probably keep them from snooping around beds for the rest of the campaign.

[iceman10058]

I made it into a gold coin and after the necessary enchantments, i gave it to a great worm red dragon to be part of his hoard. this way not only would others have to kill a difficult and powerful opponent, they would have to figure out which of the thousands of coins it is.

[BlueHerring]

Hide it inside one of the PCs.

"No, John, you were the phylactery."

[The Glyphstone]

In 3.5, I'll keep it on the Positive Energy Plane in my hidden fortress. As an undead, I automatically succeed on the Fortitude saves to avoid exploding, so after I'm defeated the first time, I can spend a few months soaking up a couple thousand temporary HP then go in for Round 2.:smallcool:

[KillingAScarab]

Nice try, adventurer. I'll never tell.

Sincerly,
The Lich+1 :smallbiggrin:


In 3.5, I'll keep it on the Positive Energy Plane in my hidden fortress. As an undead, I automatically succeed on the Fortitude saves to avoid exploding, so after I'm defeated the first time, I can spend a few months soaking up a couple thousand temporary HP then go in for Round 2.:smallcool:There is the question of if something native to the plane wouldn't try to destroy the phylactery. But if you can sufficiently hide it there, you also don't have to worry about many living opponents, since there isn't any air (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15036846&postcount=61). Unless they're willing to 1.) research how to create air there or 2.) do something very silly (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279064-Help!-We-re-stuck-on-the-postive-energy-plane-and-we-can-t-breathe!&p=15037838&highlight=suffocate+defenestrating+sphere#post1503 7838).

[Cluedrew]

If this is 3.5e: I willingly give my phylactery to a genie capable of granting wishes, and promise it three favors each time I respawn from it. Adventurers are going to have a hell of a time convincing someone with unlimited wishes, their own small nation of resources, and greed that outstrips a dragon's to part with one of their most unique treasures.I like this one, it is sort of like contracting out its defence, but one you have managed to find both someone as or more capable than yourself or guarding it and might be convinced to do so.


You guys are no fun. If the phylactory is unobtainable, then you don't have a storyline.

[...]

Yes, plot would be my armor. Literally plot armor. PCs could figure out how to teleport to the middle of the sun eventually... but making them sit through expository monologues? Muahahaha!!!Both a good point and a nice solution that uses it, that will be an more interesting search that smashing every rock on the bank of the river Styx. Actually I'd probably use this over the new ideas I have, but here they are:

Although it wasn't a phylactery one solution for this type of thing I have liked is to hide the mcgruffen near where they think it is. In this particular case the wizard hid the box with his heart in it by a trap & monster filled pit. The box was hidden just outside, inside of all the wards and protection spells that kept people from reaching the pit and only a few steps from the teleport sigil he used to teleport in to check if anything happened in the area.

A similar idea (if you can hid the fact you are a lich with a phylactery) is to embed it into the holiest item you can find and start rumours that it is the only thing that can kill you. Then you have every reason to protect it, but if they get through the protections the heroes are not going to destroy it. The one issue is that you will regenerate near the heroes after they defeat you, but with luck this will just let you fell them before they spread the word of your defeat. And that will make an interesting surprise encounter for the PCs.

[DigoDragon]

Make it into a really nice piece of loot that someone in the party absolutely wants. They'll never part with it, they'll keep it well maintained, they'll never question the manufacturer.

[Merellis]

I'd convince other liches to go into a tontine and have each create elaborate dungeons to house their phylacteries. Last Lich standing gets everything.

Issue here is that we're all existing because we cheated death, who's to say we won't cheat undeath and just cause general havoc and destruction?

It'll be great. :smallbiggrin:

[DigoDragon]

I'd convince other liches to go into a tontine and have each create elaborate dungeons to house their phylacteries. Last Lich standing gets everything.

Okay, this is a campaign I can get behind: Capture-the-flag between liches who have underlings go out as "talent agents" to hire adventurers to get each other's phylactery by surviving their dungeons. The PCs are pawns for one side. Like a D&D version of Games of Triskelion. :smallbiggrin:

[Fable Wright]

You guys are no fun. If the phylactory is unobtainable, then you don't have a storyline.

Plus, to the guy with the demi-planes... There's no stipulation that you're able to leave a demi-plane. At least, not using that spell.

Sure. That's what Plane Shift is for.


I made it into a gold coin and after the necessary enchantments, i gave it to a great worm red dragon to be part of his hoard. this way not only would others have to kill a difficult and powerful opponent, they would have to figure out which of the thousands of coins it is.

Problem: Dragon's going to think you're trying to steal his hoard each time you start respawning. This will not end well.


Make it into a really nice piece of loot that someone in the party absolutely wants. They'll never part with it, they'll keep it well maintained, they'll never question the manufacturer.

Problem: Player character's going to think you're trying to steal his hoard each time you start respawning. This will end in the creation of a mechanism to kill you again each time you respawn, meaning a hellish loop of eternal death. Or getting press-ganged into working for the people who killed you. Or both. Dragon is the better call here; it can at least be reasoned with.

[Freelance GM]

I was discussing this with my friends, and we couldn't come up with a clear choice. if you were a Lich, would you keep it on you or hide it away some where no one will find it?

The villain of my last 5E campaign actually had his phylactery buried with his dead girlfriend- who he sacrificed to achieve lichdom.

In a little bit of Marvel Cinematic Universe foreshadowing, the Phylactery was actually found and destroyed in an earlier campaign with some of the same players. They were ransacking the tomb for mostly unrelated reasons, found the phylactery, and mistook it for the amulet they were searching for. They cast identify, just to be sure, discovered it was a phylactery, and then destroyed it with extreme prejudice.

So, in the more recent campaign, where the players release the Lich from an Imprisonment spell to help them stop an Ancient Red Dragon, the first thing he does is check on his phylactery... And freaks out when he finds the broken pieces.

[KnotKnormal]

Nice try, adventurer. I'll never tell.

Sincerly,
The Lich

Damn, so close. lol

[KnotKnormal]

You guys are no fun. If the phylactory is unobtainable, then you don't have a storyline.

Plus, to the guy with the demi-planes... There's no stipulation that you're able to leave a demi-plane. At least, not using that spell.


Anyway, I'd probably leave mine in the crypt of my long dead lover, who was slain in the elven pogroms of 1294. It was her death that led me to becoming a lich, wanting to conquer death, and would be the last thing tying me to my former humanity. It'd be poetic as ****. Of course, I'd have to destroy any trace of my former identity so that would-be adventurers could never figure out who I really was, and they'd have to go through a heavy dose of exposition to figure it out.

Yes, plot would be my armor. Literally plot armor. PCs could figure out how to teleport to the middle of the sun eventually... but making them sit through expository monologues? Muahahaha!!!

This is actually genius... thank you. I will use this... soon I think.

[TurboGhast]

Sure. That's what Plane Shift is for.



Problem: Dragon's going to think you're trying to steal his hoard each time you start respawning. This will not end well.



Problem: Player character's going to think you're trying to steal his hoard each time you start respawning. This will end in the creation of a mechanism to kill you again each time you respawn, meaning a hellish loop of eternal death. Or getting press-ganged into working for the people who killed you. Or both. Dragon is the better call here; it can at least be reasoned with.

Avoiding getting repeat killed by the dragon is mainly a matter of making sure you are on good terms with him before you tell them about your plan to hide your phylactery in his treasure hoard.

[KnotKnormal]

Avoiding getting repeat killed by the dragon is mainly a matter of making sure you are on good terms with him before you tell them about your plan to hide your phylactery in his treasure hoard.

yeah... but that won't fly with any smart dragon. a wyrm would instantly recognize that as a threat to his hoard, cause that means that some day, some one will come looking for that phylactory and chance are they will eventually be very powerful and likely make off with the dragon's treasure and head.

[Aeson]

a wyrm would instantly recognize that as a threat to his hoard, cause that means that some day, some one will come looking for that phylactory and chance are they will eventually be very powerful and likely make off with the dragon's treasure and head.
A smart wyrm will recognize that some day somebody's going to come and try to deprive him or her of the hoard regardless of whether or not the dragon has the phylactory, and realize that having a powerful immortal spellcaster who has a vested interest in seeing to it that the wyrm remains alive and in possession of the hoard is not a bad thing.

Also, if the lich actually befriends the wyrm as suggested, well, the things friends will do for one another are not limited only to those things which carry no risks.

[KnotKnormal]

ture, but there is a difference between adventurers seeking honor, glory and loot, and those that are determined to save their world from a lich. as a dragon I would be very afraid of the second kind of adventurer. I'd hold onto my hoard and lay low, if things want to come to my den to try to gain fame or money they are welcome to take me on. but it would be the desperate ones I'd worry about.

[Segev]

Make it a sentient item. A sword, perhaps. Something with a good and noble purpose, like slaying evil dragons or protecting paladins. Create it with a sweet and kind personality, and a lust for life and an endearing curiosity. Don't let it know it's your phylactery.

Then see to it that it falls into the hands of some heroes. Maybe give it to them when they're just slightly weaker than one might expect to find wielding so magnificent a weapon. Give them time to become friends with it.

Should they ever discover its dark secret, the poor thing's metaphorical heart will break, but it won't want to die. Its purpose is not to destroy you, after all, and it has so much to live for. And it's their friend.

[Icewraith]

If this is 5th edition: I use the Demiplane spell to create a storage depot for it. I can access it or leave it at any time with a spell slot, it's nigh-impossible to find with magic, I can ward it beyond measure, and I can have literally hundreds of decoy rooms floating out there when the adventurers try to look for it.

If this is 3.5e: I willingly give my phylactery to a genie capable of granting wishes, and promise it three favors each time I respawn from it. Adventurers are going to have a hell of a time convincing someone with unlimited wishes, their own small nation of resources, and greed that outstrips a dragon's to part with one of their most unique treasures.

You're also giving the genie a reason to start gunning for you every time it needs (or wants) more favors. And by "gunning for" I mean "manipulating other beings into killing you". Or just, y'know, killing you. If he can make your agreement magically binding, you've sold yourself as a slave to the genie for your immortal life. Not really a good trade.

What you really want is a series of demiplanes with various inhospitible environments connected by one-way gates and otherwise inaccesible to teleportation/plane shifting. The demiplane with the phylactery on it should be fast time so you can regenerate quickly. One of the demiplanes in the chain should be extremely slow time. I believe the catch-up mechanism for slow time planes is what causes mortals to suddenly crumble to dust after shifting out, right? In the slow-time plane there will be a supply of materials and instructions suitable for completing the transformation to lichdom. The ritual will have a backdoor that will cause the new lich to be loyal to the original lich and compel them to use the prime material portal when they leave the demiplane. There will also be a notice that anyone who isn't immortal will crumble to dust when they leave the plane. Most of the plane will be under the effect of spells that prevent combat. There will be a magnificent mansion style effect that generates an endless supply of food, water, and servants for visitors. There will be one spawn-creating undead (maybe a vampire?). There will be a one-way portal to the next demiplane and a one-way portal to the prime material.

The vampire will only create thralls of people who specifically request it. The vampire will order his thralls under the strictest possible terms to walk through the prime material portal and to obey the original lich as if it were the vampire.

Anyone traveling through the dungeon can either head on if they are immortal or go back to the prime. Any mortal adventurers can hang out and party until they die of old age, become servants of the original lich and return to the prime (and enjoy immortality as a sentient undead capable of doing so), or attempt to pass through either portal and crumble to dust.

[Belac93]

I cast demiplane, and fill the room with sand. Then, I make my phylactery one of them.

I fill thousands of rooms with copies of myself using the clone spell, and make it one of the Jars that contains a clone.

I make it a diamond grain, and drop it into a lava flow.

I make it some bone marrow, and inject it into an ancient red dragon, in exchange for it getting a fake phylactery as a reward.

[The Glyphstone]

Actually, I'm going to consult the Evil Overlord list on this one.


5. The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

[Cluedrew]

Actually, I'm going to consult the Evil Overlord list on this one.
5. The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness. ... Would now be a bad time to point out I have an account with the band on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire run by the Dragons of Eternity?

[The Glyphstone]

Do they play good music?

[Cluedrew]

Let's try this again: "... Would now be a bad time to point out I have an account with the bank on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire run by the Dragons of Eternity?"

I considered making a crack about that, but no, it is just a typo. There is nothing but the bank and the law firm up there, not a lot of music.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, but was a funny typo, hence the joke.

[Reboot]

Actually, I'm going to consult the Evil Overlord list on this one.

That's pretty much entirely relying on "security through obscurity" though. All it takes is one successful divination or other means of tracing it, and your phylactery is dust. As much as "Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity" is kind of an obvious place, it's a DAMN HARD place to get to - pretty much the only way that's getting breached is either (a) Protagonist Luck or (b) Your equal and opposite. And that's always possible, even in the "safe deposit box" scenario, just that "lower level" guys can get it with less luck otherwise. [Even Batman had his super-secret safe-deposit box stolen recently, in Batman (New 52 series) #52. And if BATMAN can have it happen, anyone can ;) ]

If you're going to go for "relying on obscurity", bury it a few miles underground at random co-ordinates by teleportation in some inhospitable place - a giant desert, under permafrost, bottom of the ocean, etc.

[Cluedrew]

I don't know, maybe I could of run with it and gone about how the dragons of eternity are so multi-talented having lived so long... learning music and banking. But I wasn't sure how to spin that.

Although if I was a Lich and a sufficiently LE (particularly the lawful part) Dragons of Eternity did run a bank on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire in that setting, I would totally get a safety deposit box from them and put my phylactery in it. I would also probably pick up Lair Insurance from the Evil Genii next door and pay the Beholders at the base of the mountain for information on any adventures who are hunting me down, because if you have in bank of evil, why not an big-E Evil insurance company and other services for the modern evil mastermind?

[Fable Wright]

You're also giving the genie a reason to start gunning for you every time it needs (or wants) more favors. And by "gunning for" I mean "manipulating other beings into killing you". Or just, y'know, killing you. If he can make your agreement magically binding, you've sold yourself as a slave to the genie for your immortal life. Not really a good trade.

He has infinite wishes, and he doesn't need to start killing you the next time he needs a favor. He can just get a Sending and work out a normal barter, rather than going through the trouble of hiring people.

That said, as Xykon has pointed out, when you're a powerful lich it's rare to come across anything that can challenge you. You're saying that contracting out my defense to a genie comes with a Rocky training montage anytime I start wearing myself into a rut? Score!

[DigoDragon]

Problem: Player character's going to think you're trying to steal his hoard each time you start respawning. This will end in the creation of a mechanism to kill you again each time you respawn, meaning a hellish loop of eternal death. Or getting press-ganged into working for the people who killed you. Or both. Dragon is the better call here; it can at least be reasoned with.

Not a problem at all. Disguise yourself as the intelligent spirit of the magic item and grant the PC some minor boon for taking care of the item.
PC is happy and you're on your way. Done. :smallbiggrin:

[iceman10058]

Another one a friend of mine did was make it into a cursed Holy Avenger, so that whenever a paladin picks it up and makes a connection to it, the lich now also has control of the paladin as he instantly falls to evil cause of the cursed sword. as far as rules go im not 100% if thats how it works, but as far as story and flavor it was awesome.

[KillingAScarab]

Another one a friend of mine did was make it into a cursed Holy Avenger, so that whenever a paladin picks it up and makes a connection to it, the lich now also has control of the paladin as he instantly falls to evil cause of the cursed sword. as far as rules go im not 100% if thats how it works, but as far as story and flavor it was awesome.Would this friend have played Warcraft III, by any chance? Cursed swords taking people over might not be new, but I feel like that was a very specific intersection with liches.

[goto124]

Would this friend have played Warcraft III, by any chance? Cursed swords taking people over might not be new, but I feel like that was a very specific intersection with liches.

Maybe this comic (https://i.imgur.com/rJDOTNY.png) is slightly related.

[Lord Torath]

I make it a diamond grain, and drop it into a lava flow.Are you ever going to be in for a surprise when you need your phylactery! :smallamused:

Diamonds are far from immune to fire. Heat a diamond up to 3500 C, and it turns into random carbon molecules. Heat it up to 800 C in the presence of oxygen, and it'll burn. Plus, are liches immune to fire? You're not going to be wearing any of your magic items when you regenerate, are you? A lava bath just does not sound comfortable, even for a skeleton. Also, what happens when that lave flow solidifies, with your phylactery 20 to 30 feet in now-solid rock when you need to regenerate?

[Reboot]

That makes me think though - if a lich makes a hollow, man-sized sphere their phylactery, does the lich regenerate inside or outside it? (I suppose it might be simpler just to have a Tiny phylactery inside such a sphere).

Another thought - rather than buggering about with dragons/etc, why not make a gold coin your phylactery... then just spend it in some crowded marketplace (using some illusion or similar spells to disguise yourself when doing so) with lots of people/etc transiting through? Good luck on anyone ever finding it again!

[Belac93]

Are you ever going to be in for a surprise when you need your phylactery! :smallamused:

Diamonds are far from immune to fire. Heat a diamond up to 3500 C, and it turns into random carbon molecules. Heat it up to 800 C in the presence of oxygen, and it'll burn. Plus, are liches immune to fire? You're not going to be wearing any of your magic items when you regenerate, are you? A lava bath just does not sound comfortable, even for a skeleton. Also, what happens when that lave flow solidifies, with your phylactery 20 to 30 feet in now-solid rock when you need to regenerate?

Well, lava can be as low as 700°C, so it is technically possible. I imagine you could always lock it in a barely larger fireproof thing, as fire resistance is one of the easiest things to bestow in dnd. Also, coming back to life? I have a lot of hit points, I imagine I could get fire resistance or immunity before dying. For the solidifying, that is what disintegrate and teleportation is for. Even misty step has a range of 30 feet.


What if you cast the Burial imprisonment spell on a zombie, with the release clause being: 'when I die,' and gave it your phylactery? When you die, you end up safely a few thousand feet below the earth, with plenty of time to plot and regenerate.

[bulbaquil]

My phylactery? I'd just toss it randomly out on the street.

[Traab]

I would keep it in an empty room with a sign labeling it as a phylactery. The players would take so long trying to figure out the trap I would regenerate before they were through.

[DigoDragon]

Build the phylactery as part of a magic fridge that makes food. Donate fridge to an orphanage.

[Traab]

Build the phylactery as part of a magic fridge that makes food. Donate fridge to an orphanage.

"I made my phylactery into a nice old ladies artificial hip. You wouldnt cripple an old lady would you?"

"I made my phylactery into the central support strut of the only orphanage in the kingdom. Would you really deny those poor children a home when they are already suffering without parents?"

[goto124]

Another thought - rather than buggering about with dragons/etc, why not make a gold coin your phylactery... then just spend it in some crowded marketplace (using some illusion or similar spells to disguise yourself when doing so) with lots of people/etc transiting through? Good luck on anyone ever finding it again!

Including you. You have no idea where you'll regenerate, let alone know if it's a safe place.

[Reboot]

Including you. You have no idea where you'll regenerate, let alone know if it's a safe place.

True, you're playing the odds. But provided you've set the coin up with lots of anti-detection spells, pretty good odds on being basically safe and sound in some random purse or chest. Or, worst case, in a muddy ditch or pond.

[DigoDragon]

"I made my phylactery into the central support strut of the only orphanage in the kingdom. Would you really deny those poor children a home when they are already suffering without parents?"

And think of the fun you'd have when you pop back after your defeat.

"Hey kids, wanna see a dead body?!" :D

[Segev]

Ever since reading how dracoliches do it, I've thought that was a cooler idea for how all liches should. Therefore, my theory on lich regeneration isn't that they spontaneously pop out of nowhere, but that their souls return to their phylacteries upon their physical bodies' destruction, and then they have to search in a slowly-expanding radius of awareness for a suitable corpse. When they find it, they take possession of it. The process of finding and taking possession of a suitable corpse (which must be of their species, or at least close to it) is what takes 1d10 days. The sooner they revive, the closer to their phylactery the corpse they took over is likely to be.

[Nizaris]

For all of its faults, Pathfinder's Vigilante has the best hiding location, inside its Safe House. The location and everything and everyone inside is immune to Divination and the effect is non-dispel-able. It's also a great place for storing the remains of your vanquished foes, no one can find the remains and if placed correctly, no one will find it through mundane means.

Failing that, the before mentioned moon base is a useful option.

[hymer]

Ever since reading how dracoliches do it, I've thought that was a cooler idea for how all liches should. Therefore, my theory on lich regeneration isn't that they spontaneously pop out of nowhere, but that their souls return to their phylacteries upon their physical bodies' destruction, and then they have to search in a slowly-expanding radius of awareness for a suitable corpse. When they find it, they take possession of it. The process of finding and taking possession of a suitable corpse (which must be of their species, or at least close to it) is what takes 1d10 days. The sooner they revive, the closer to their phylactery the corpse they took over is likely to be.

I had something very similar in mind for my suggestion. Isn't this how liches used to do things? You keep a suitable (supply of ) corpse(s) with your phylactery, of course.

As for all the suggestions of giving it to some heroes in some form, I really can't see that working out. Coming back far away from them would be preferable. The search for the lich's phylactery is likely to be frantic and pursued with plenty of resources, including strong divination magic and questions put to divine beings. And once accomplished, they're already done. This gives you no time to run on.
And making the phylactery likeable and innocent? My players were recently responsible for the deaths of some fifty loyal soldiers under their command, and the only emotions they've RPed so far are worry about what their CO will say or do. I wouldn't even get a decent RP scene out of the potential drama of killing/destroying something innocent because it must be done. I can already see them shrugging.


For all of its faults, Pathfinder's Vigilante has the best hiding location, inside its Safe House. The location and everything and everyone inside is immune to Divination and the effect is non-dispel-able. It's also a great place for storing the remains of your vanquished foes, no one can find the remains and if placed correctly, no one will find it through mundane means.

So you ask 'where was the lich's soul last detected' and 'in which direction was it travelling?' And you have to wonder how the soul can find the phylactery in a place where nothing can be found, even by magic. Anyway, hiding one's phylactery inside DM fiat is just bad form.


Failing that, the before mentioned moon base is a useful option.

Provided the moon is a place, and not a divine being, of course. :smallsmile:

[Traab]

And think of the fun you'd have when you pop back after your defeat.

"Hey kids, wanna see a dead body?!" :D

Nah, I wouldnt do that. The entire point is to make it a place they dont want to destroy. I would quietly regen in the basement then teleport to wherever I want to go. If I torment the kids (even with something that mild) it increases the risks they would destroy the building to "save the children" This orphanage would be an EXCELLENT place to raise children till they can be adopted. It employs the most skilled and kind hearted workers, is well funded (by me) and in general is the sort of place that saying, "We need to burn it down." Would get you faced with a massive riot of half the kingdom. Saying, "We want to destroy the soul of the man who built funded and takes care of this place by turning it into a ruin." Would get the city guard to kill you themselves.

[DigoDragon]

Nah, I wouldnt do that. The entire point is to make it a place they dont want to destroy.

I dunno, some kids might find it awesome if their fridge spits out a lich every few months. :smallwink:

[Amphetryon]

The necklace of my Hobgoblin minion, of course

[Traab]

I dunno, some kids might find it awesome if their fridge spits out a lich every few months. :smallwink:

Just dont say, "Hey, has anyone seen my pants?" Having kids repeat that sort of question tends to raise issues. :smallbiggrin:

[Reboot]

What about "Has anyone seen my pelvis (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html)"?