Will level my Monk to Level 4 soon, would appreciate some input in how to spend it!

[Aell]

After three months of playing we will finally reach level 4 this weekend (we managed to kill three ogres last time, and would get the level next time).

I don't have the exact stats (I know three of them for sure), but from my memory my 5E monk looks like this:

Male Wood-Elf, Outlander

STR 15
DEX 17
CON ? (14 or 16 maybe)
INT 15
WIS 19
CHA 9

I will get to boost one stat with 2, or two stats with 1, and the big question is do I push DEX to 19 or spread it out to DEX 18 and WIS 20? I think a Feat is out of the question, right? There's no specific feat that is a "nobrainer" and would aid my monk at this level, is there?

Also, a side topic: I am thinking of retiring my quarterstaff and switching to a spear next time we play (we'll start out in town so we can switch gear). This would mean my loadout would be:

Light Crossbow (1d8) for long-distance (I have a sling on it so I carry it on my back)
Spear (1d8, 1d6-thrown) for medium distance
Fists and feet (1d4) for close combat (4 Ki, yay)

I think I can convince my pretty cool DM to allow me to use the butt of the spear as a 1d6 Bludgeoning weapon, in case we run into a skeleton. I wouldn't ask to be able to use the butt of the spear as 1d8 Bludgeoning, because that would make the quarterstaff totally superfluous and it would be a bit cheating, right? You guys haven't used the back of the spear as 1d8 bludgeoning?

[MrFahrenheit]

Wisdom to 20, dex to 18. At 8, push dex to 20. Can worry about feats after that.

[BiPolar]

Wisdom to 20, dex to 18. At 8, push dex to 20. Can worry about feats after that.

I agree. That's to big boosts to your main stats and gives you more Ki points.

[Sir cryosin]

Wisdom to 20, dex to 18. At 8, push dex to 20. Can worry about feats after that.

I agree here and the 1d6 bludgeoning damage you don't need to worry about because when you hit that level I do believe you're unarmed strikes in your Martial Art weapon goes up to 1 D6 n you can use daggers or actually throwing darts a lot of people use throwing darts because they are because they will be considered monk weapons and their damage that goes up with you are not with your unarmed strike damage that goes up as well I know I use throwing darts and daggers with my shadow monk for ranged weapons

[RulesJD]

I agree. That's to big boosts to your main stats and gives you more Ki points.

Just FYI, no stat besides Monk level impacts how many Ki you have.

[BiPolar]

Just FYI, no stat besides Monk level impacts how many Ki you have.

Ooops! You're right, I was looking at the DC for any of the Ki events.

[Aell]

Wisdom to 20, dex to 18. At 8, push dex to 20. Can worry about feats after that.

Nice! Will definitely do that. Just out of curiosity, at level 8, do you think mobility will be the no-brainer feat? Or something else?

[gfishfunk]

Spear (1d8, 1d6-thrown) for medium distance
Fists and feet (1d4) for close combat (4 Ki, yay)

That is a no-go for the spear, using it 2-H. You can, but you loose the ability to do flurry of blows (you need one hand free). - Retracted

Were I you, I would purchase a staff and purchase a spear so that you have options. They are not too expensive, and you look like a frickin' powerhouse with a spear strapped to your back next to a light cross bow, a staff strapped to your leg, and a short sword strapped to your other leg. So, yes. Also buy a short sword to complete the image. And wear no shirt.

[RulesJD]

That is a no-go for the spear, using it 2-H. You can, but you loose the ability to do flurry of blows (you need one hand free).

Were I you, I would purchase a staff and purchase a spear so that you have options. They are not too expensive, and you look like a frickin' powerhouse with a spear strapped to your back next to a light cross bow, a staff strapped to your leg, and a short sword strapped to your other leg. So, yes. Also buy a short sword to complete the image. And wear no shirt.

Yet another FYI, using the Spear 2-H doesn't stop you from using Flurry of Blows. For a whole bunch of reasons, least of which being that you don't need to make Unarmed attacks with your fist.

[Aell]

Just FYI, no stat besides Monk level impacts how many Ki you have.

Right. 4 Ki will be very nice regardless. :.) What do you feel regarding monk main weapon level 4-6; quarterstaff or spear or something else?

[Joe the Rat]

I'd favor Spear as the primary. d8 damage, not bludgeoning when that's an issue, option to throw, and still a good walking stick.

[Aell]

Right. 4 Ki will be very nice regardless. :.) What do you feel regarding monk main weapon level 4-6; quarterstaff or spear or something else?

Well put! You sold me. I strive to be versatile, overspecialization invites extinction.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd also switch to a shortbow, since you're about to get Extra Attack. But yeah, the fact that you can get an increased modifier to both of your primary stats makes the ASI really tempting. The main feat to consider is probably Mobile-- you don't really need the bonus speed, but being able to zip around the battlefield without worrying about AoOs is pure gold and wonderfully in-character for a Monk.

[SharkForce]

i would agree with mobile once you eventually take a feat.

i would also agree that on a monk, buffing stats is very high value and i'd do that first, personally.

as for weapon, spear is perfectly fine. you can punch if you need bludgeoning damage.

[gfishfunk]

Yet another FYI, using the Spear 2-H doesn't stop you from using Flurry of Blows. For a whole bunch of reasons, least of which being that you don't need to make Unarmed attacks with your fist.

Huh. I opened up the SDL and I thought martial arts was restricted to having one hand free. I retract my prior comment and retreat away from the internet, heavy of heart. :smallredface: :smallredface:

[Aell]

I'd also switch to a shortbow, since you're about to get Extra Attack.

Ïnteresting. Why could I not use a light crossbow for both those attacks, post lvl5? Is bolt-loading rulebound to need one round?

Also, are there any weapons you can spend a ki point on? Or is it still "unarmed attack", played as written?

Does anyone carry more than one hunting trap with them, for encounters with dumb enemies? I faced down two ogres and one of them stepped into my hunting trap I had whipped out of my explorer's pack while retreating. It worked wonderfully, I would surely have died without it.

[Aell]

Also, I have forgotten all this time, I am a wood elf! I have proficiency in longsword and longbow. Would using the longbow somehow limit my monk, as opposed to a light crossbow?

[Grod_The_Giant]

You do not want a light crossbow, as the Loading property means you can only make a single attack when you take an action to fire it. You do want a longbow, which is better in every way. Monk gives you no bonuses for using ranged weapons, but it doesn't impose any penalties, either. If you use a Monk weapon (a simple melee weapon without the two-handed or heavy property, or a shortsword), you can spend Ki to flurry of blows, but that's about it.

[Drizztguen]

You could consider the observant feat, which gives you a +1 to wisdom and a bonus to passive perception. I'm doing a monk/rogue multiclass and am hoping to get a super high passive perception, just to bug my DM.

DM: You're walking through a tunnel and...
Me: I see it.
DM: ...see what?
Me: everything!

[Aell]

You do want a longbow, which is better in every way. Monk gives you no bonuses for using ranged weapons, but it doesn't impose any penalties, either. If you use a Monk weapon (a simple melee weapon without the two-handed or heavy property, or a shortsword), you can spend Ki to flurry of blows, but that's about it.

This is fantastic. Longbow and spear, that feels really good. Is there any conventional way to get fire arrows in 5e? Do you buy them or make them yourself, if at all possible? Is there any effect you can put on arrows? Short of finding arrows +1 or magic or silver arrows in some chest?

[Aell]

You could consider the observant feat, which gives you a +1 to wisdom and a bonus to passive perception. I'm doing a monk/rogue multiclass and am hoping to get a super high passive perception, just to bug my DM.

DM: You're walking through a tunnel and...
Me: I see it.
DM: ...see what?
Me: everything!

Hm, my WIS is 19 at the moment, I will level it to 20 at the start of our next run, hopefully this saturday. The PHB seems to say that the Wis bonus for "Observant" is for a maximum of 20, so no good I'm afraid.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hm, my WIS is 19 at the moment, I will level it to 20 at the start of our next run, hopefully this saturday. If I'm already at 20, will 21 be even possible? If possible, is it even useful? Apart from that passive bonus?
It's not possible. Nor would it be useful; modifiers only improve at odd ability scores. And I honestly wouldn't bother with the feat unless you feel like you're really struggling at that stuff right now.

[SharkForce]

your wisdom cannot go over 20, barring certain very specific effects that will explicitly make note of their ability to exceed 20.

[bid]

Male Wood-Elf, Outlander

STR 15
DEX 17
CON ? (14 or 16 maybe)
INT 15
WIS 19
CHA 9

I will get to boost one stat with 2, or two stats with 1, and the big question is do I push DEX to 19 or spread it out to DEX 18 and WIS 20? I think a Feat is out of the question, right? There's no specific feat that is a "nobrainer" and would aid my monk at this level, is there?
Dex18 for sure, Wis20 maybe. But Dex18/Int16 or Dex18/Cha10 might work.

Your stats are so high you can waste a few point into RP. This is why you may want to keep Wis19 until you grab observant. (and call yourself Sherlock :smallbiggrin:)


I don't think there's any good feat outside of lucky, mobile and magic initiate. Maybe mage slayer for flavor.

[unwise]

One of the things I don't like about the system is that Feats are generally a sub-optimal choice for Dex-based guys (except Sharpshooter/Crossbow M.). +1 to hit, damage, initiative, AC, Dex save and some skills is just to good to pass up. It looks like Lucky is the only feat that really interests me on a Monk.

[djreynolds]

Dex18 for sure, Wis20 maybe. But Dex18/Int16 or Dex18/Cha10 might work.

Your stats are so high you can waste a few point into RP. This is why you may want to keep Wis19 until you grab observant. (and call yourself Sherlock :smallbiggrin:)


I don't think there's any good feat outside of lucky, mobile and magic initiate. Maybe mage slayer for flavor.

That's it, there you have it.

[Cespenar]

I don't know. Combat-wise, Dex 18 Wis 20 seems good like everyone else is saying, but depending on your DM/campaign, Observant is simply brilliant. In Out of the Abyss, I cannot remember how many times the Observant feat got us out of an ambush.

[Lombra]

Boosting dex and wis is a solid choice but mobile is so very good for monks, i'd go mobile and spend the next ASIs in dex and wis

[Aell]

Thank you guys for all the thoughtful replies.

Well, this was a lot to think about, but I think I want to save the Mobility feat for lvl 8 or later, when I already have two main attacks (post lvl 6). I don't think Observant is a good fit for me, I want my DM to be able to ambush me, as a monk I love those situations. Lucky sounds like a good feat but it feels almost like cheating, in a way.

[HeyBJ]

Sounds like you're already set on bumping WIS to 20 already, so this might be a little superfluous. But since nobody else has pointed this out, you'll be getting stunning strikes before the next ASI opportunity, and you'll want that 20 WIS to max the DC on those.

[Aell]

Sounds like you're already set on bumping WIS to 20 already, so this might be a little superfluous. But since nobody else has pointed this out, you'll be getting stunning strikes before the next ASI opportunity, and you'll want that 20 WIS to max the DC on those.

No no, thank you for mentioning it, that sounds like a case of really blessed synergy! That made me much more happy with the decision. I don't want to feel like I am minmaxing too much and forsaking RP, but this is now a case of being smart, and I can add feats later. Good one!

So if I kick it up to Dex18 and Wis20, will I get one higher AC, which at the moment is 17? And, if I understand correctly, it won't increase my unarmed damage (as that won't happen until level 6) but it will increase my chance to hit with unarmed attacks? Or have I mixed things up?

[HeyBJ]

No no, thank you for mentioning it, that sounds like a case of really blessed synergy! That made me much more happy with the decision. I don't want to feel like I am minmaxing too much and forsaking RP, but this is now a case of being smart, and I can add feats later. Good one!

So if I kick it up to Dex18 and Wis20, will I get one higher AC, which at the moment is 17? And, if I understand correctly, it won't increase my unarmed damage (as that won't happen until level 6) but it will increase my chance to hit with unarmed attacks? Or have I mixed things up?

You're partially right. Bumping DEX to 18 will add another +1 to your DEX modifiers, which will affect AC, attack rolls, AND damage rolls for monk weapons and unarmed strikes.

[Cespenar]

Thank you guys for all the thoughtful replies.

Well, this was a lot to think about, but I think I want to save the Mobility feat for lvl 8 or later, when I already have two main attacks (post lvl 6). I don't think Observant is a good fit for me, I want my DM to be able to ambush me, as a monk I love those situations. Lucky sounds like a good feat but it feels almost like cheating, in a way.

Oh, the DM would ambush you still. You'd just gain the ability to act on the first round instead of, well, getting blindsided, y'know. Plus, it'd fit a Monk quite well. Think how Bruce Lee punches the guys to his back. :smalltongue:

If you don't like it, however, don't sweat it, get what you want.

About Lucky, I don't think it's like cheating. More like a one-time (or three) shield against luck screwing you over.

[Aell]

Oh, the DM would ambush you still. You'd just gain the ability to act on the first round instead of, well, getting blindsided, y'know. Plus, it'd fit a Monk quite well. Think how Bruce Lee punches the guys to his back. :smalltongue:

If you don't like it, however, don't sweat it, get what you want. About Lucky, I don't think it's like cheating. More like a one-time (or three) shield against luck screwing you over.

Well, that does sound good actually, with increased perception, especially if I have my soon-to-be-acquired Longbow, which I just yesterday realized I had proficiency for, after having played 10 evenings with him. :.) I think I'd have to take mobile first, though.

[SharkForce]

your new AC with 18 dex and 20 wis will be 19. you're bumping wisdom and dex modifier by 1 each, so that's +2 to your AC ;)

[Aell]

You're partially right. Bumping DEX to 18 will add another +1 to your DEX modifiers, which will affect AC, attack rolls, AND damage rolls for monk weapons and unarmed strikes.

Man, I had almost forgotten how damn often I roll 1's on my damn d4. I would definitely want to increase the damage rolls for both my main weapon (will get spear when we start next) and my unarmed, it's so frustrating to waste my last Ki point and do two bonus attacks that do just crap damage.

By the way, you were mentioning Stunning Strike, I haven't fully understood that mechanic yet. You attack a creature with your main weapon, spend a ki for SS, and then the creature must do a con save or be stunned. But when the creature rolls Con save, what is it that they must beat? My AC? My own Con? My weapon attack roll?

[Aell]

your new AC with 18 dex and 20 wis will be 19. you're bumping wisdom and dex modifier by 1 each, so that's +2 to your AC ;)

Goodness me. And I'm gonna get one more ki-point, and slow fall, and more damage on the weapon modifiers, and I am switching from quarterstaff and light crossbow to spear and longbow. I think I'm gonna have my monk ritualistically shave his black hair off just to signify a paradigm shift. :.D

[SharkForce]

all monk abilities with a save DC use the DC listed in the monk class description; 8 + proficiency bonus + wisdom modifier.

in your case, i believe that will be 15.

[Joe the Rat]

If you use a Monk weapon (a simple melee weapon without the two-handed or heavy property, or a shortsword), you can spend Ki to flurry of blows, but that's about it.
From the RAW file: I don't know if they meant to do this, but flurry of blows (and ki features in general) does not say anything about requiring monk weapons, or any other criteria for the martial arts feature. In theory, you can go to town with a maul, spend a ki, and follow up with two kicks. Heck, you could shoot your longbow, spend a ki, and go boot to the head twice.

That said, you do need to meet martial arts requirements for the dex-based, 1d4+ damage unarmed strikes, so those after-maul kicks would be strength to hit, 1+str damage.

[HeyBJ]

all monk abilities with a save DC use the DC listed in the monk class description; 8 + proficiency bonus + wisdom modifier.

in your case, i believe that will be 15.

With 20 WIS, by the time a monk gets Stunning Strike, it should be 16. Great for spell casters and the like, but will still have to get pretty lucky to affect beefy guys.

[SharkForce]

With 20 WIS, by the time a monk gets Stunning Strike, it should be 16. Great for spell casters and the like, but will still have to get pretty lucky to affect beefy guys.

is stunning strike at 5? for some reason I thought it was 4...

[Aell]

With 20 WIS, by the time a monk gets Stunning Strike, it should be 16. Great for spell casters and the like, but will still have to get pretty lucky to affect beefy guys.

So a beefy enemy, say an ogre, will have to beat my 16 with his con modifier? Is that how Stunning Strike works?

[HeyBJ]

So a beefy enemy, say an ogre, will have to beat my 16 with his con modifier? Is that how Stunning Strike works?

Any enemy, be they beefy of squishy, makes a CON saving throw, which is affected by their CON modifier. Beefy ones tend to have higher CON, which means a higher modifier, which means better saving throws. So something with, say a +5 CON modifier will need to roll at least 11 to resist the stun.

[Aell]

Any enemy, be they beefy of squishy, makes a CON saving throw, which is affected by their CON modifier. Beefy ones tend to have higher CON, which means a higher modifier, which means better saving throws. So something with, say a +5 CON modifier will need to roll at least 11 to resist the stun.

Good to know, then I will choose my marks with care, unless we're in a bad way and some luck is needed. ;