Modified Aboleth CR

[LordOfCain]

What is the CR of this "primeval Aboleth"
Large Aberration
HP: 60
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 11
Wis: 13
Cha: 13
Armor Class: 14
Touch AC: 11
Flatfooted AC: 12
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, and Improved Initiative
Special Attacks: Enslave and Slime
Special Abilities: Aquatic Subtype, 60 ft. Darkvision, and Mucus Cloud
Attack: Tentacles +7 Melee (1d4+4 plus slime)

[Thealtruistorc]

Is this just an aboleth with lower mental stats and no SLAs? I would have to go CR 6.

[LordOfCain]

Is this just an aboleth with lower mental stats and no SLAs? I would have to go CR 6.it also is one size category smaller and has slightly lower/higher physical stats. (Dexterity)

[ExLibrisMortis]

Aboleth get most of their CR from their Slime, Mucus Cloud, Enslave, and SLAs/PLAs. The lost strength and size are not great, but aboleth don't get anything out of grappling, unlike illithid.

The save DCs for all special abilities are 2 points lower due to lost charisma and constitution, to-hit and damage are 5 points lower, and it has about 20% less hp. That warrants a CR reduction, even though their AC is up by 2 points (edit: nevermind, it's down, I missed that you reduced NA as well). On the other hand, they can still take apart a party with clever use of illusions, and take them down one by one, so it's still quite powerful.

The Enslave ability is very dangerous, and can easily result in a TPK, even with the save DC reduced to 15. You need countermeasures; magic circle against evil protects against it, and remove curse can remove it. They come online at level 5, so aboleth are definitely not less than CR 5. Dispel magic, also online at that level, can't typically counter aboleth illusion abilities, as they have CL 16.

All told, I'd put these modified aboleth at CR 6. That should put the countermeasures within easy reach.

[Zancloufer]

I would say CR of 5 at most. If you calculated his attack right his actual HD would be 6 putting his saves and DCs down by another point. Yes his TOUCH AC is a little higher, but his actual flat-footed/base AC is -2. Also since his stats and HD are lower his saves would all be 2-4 lower as well. +3 Fort save doesn't go that far at level 5+ . . .

Also the loss of SLAs hurts ALOT. Overall CR of 5 , 2.5 CR from HD, +1 for being large (if you consider that a benefit) +2 for noticeable abilities. At level 5 a DC 14/15 will/fort isn't terribly nasty. Biggest problem is him being underwater and that enslave but by level 3 you should have counters for that. Water Breathing + Magic Circle vs Evil and this Aboleth will literally last 10 seconds. With +7 to hit it's not like his slime will be that nasty and not cloud or Psionics make him VERY vulnerable . . .

[LordOfCain]

Aboleth get most of their CR from their Slime, Mucus Cloud, Enslave, and SLAs/PLAs. The lost strength and size are not great, but aboleth don't get anything out of grappling, unlike illithid.

The save DCs for all special abilities are 2 points lower due to lost charisma and constitution, to-hit and damage are 5 points lower, and it has about 20% less hp. That warrants a CR reduction, even though their AC is up by 2 points (edit: nevermind, it's down, I missed that you reduced NA as well). On the other hand, they can still take apart a party with clever use of illusions, and take them down one by one, so it's still quite powerful.

The Enslave ability is very dangerous, and can easily result in a TPK, even with the save DC reduced to 15. You need countermeasures; magic circle against evil protects against it, and remove curse can remove it. They come online at level 5, so aboleth are definitely not less than CR 5. Dispel magic, also online at that level, can't typically counter aboleth illusion abilities, as they have CL 16.

All told, I'd put these modified aboleth at CR 6. That should put the countermeasures within easy reach.
I took away all of the psionic abilities except for the enslave so it doesn't have the illusion powers.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I took away all of the psionic abilities except for the enslave so it doesn't have the illusion powers.
Oh. Then put it at CR 5.