Bluff; Illusion and enchantment that ignore SR.

[Xuldarinar]

Given sufficient ranks in Bluff, what are some lies you'd tell in and out of combat situations?

Also, how would you get such a bonus to bluff that telling such lies regularly would be reliable?

[Geddy2112]

I don't totally understand your question. If you were a capable liar, you would tell lies as needed, whatever would fit the situation or give you an edge.

As far as making a lie so regular you get a bonus to it, well if somebody genuinely believes something to be true then they are not bluffing or lying, they are being truthful to the best of their knowledge. So if told enough times by enough people who believed something, it would no longer be bluffing to try to convince them otherwise.

[Xuldarinar]

I'll give an example, one in line with the title and question.

You can bluff to convince someone of anything, provided you roll high enough. Lets say you are in a combat situation (or a potential one). You could in theory convince your enemy you have cast a spell, or even that there is an obstacle in the way. Taking it further in line with the title; You cannot cast sleep upon elves, given their immunity, and they have a bonus against enchantment spells and effects. Nevertheless, you could convince an elf that they are exhausted and need to sleep right then and there.


Personally, I'd go around convincing people of heresies. Then again, I am just that sort of person. If I had a character who was a servant of Sifkesh (I love that example), I could even just convince someone of a heresy or that they are miserable and just need to off themselves.



As for the second question, it is more of a matter of how would you boost bluff sufficiently that lying would be a reliable tactic, perhaps in place of other tactics. You lie in combat. You lie at the inn. You lie at the church. Have a quest you need to complete? Lie that it is done or lie your way through to its completion. You met a creature that shares no language with you, but thats ok.. You bluff speaking their language and then lie some more, or use Xenoglossy to allow you to lie more directly to them.

[Geddy2112]

It is important to remember that the rules say some lies automatically fail subject to DM discretion because they are so improbable they are impossible to pass as truth.

So the most useful lie in combat is the one that stops it. A good one is that you are actually allies of the said enemies attacking you, or at least friendly enough they should let you be on their way. You are undercover cops when the guards come, or something. Even better, you convince said enemies you are their superiors or commanders, although this is harder. Another lie is that you are far more powerful than you seem, which can go from subtle(actually powerful spellcaster) to insane (dragon in humanoid form, lich lord, deity). You could also convince the enemy they are in no shape to fight(the elves are too tired) with a good bluff check.

As far as that you cast a spell, anyone with spellcraft training or the ability to detect magic can call you on your BS.

Out of combat, if my character is good at it I will lie about anything to get ahead. Anything that won't put me in mortal danger. Hell,I might tell white lies and innocuous lies for fun, or without even knowing. Most people like all the time.

Mechanically, be a bard and cast glibness, aka, anyone will believe you and can't magically see through the lie without a check. Plus, you are a bard, so you probably have bluff or a relevant versatile performance maxed, masterwork instrument +2, with good charisma. Then possess convincing proof for up to a +10, make them drunk/impaired(beaten up might count) for a +5, or make them want to believe you by liking you for another +5. Sorcerers and rogues can to a lesser extent, but glibness is bard only spell. Sorcerers have a rakshasa bloodline that has a mini glibness bloodline power, but it is only +5 instead of +20 from glibness but keeps the ability to foil magical lie detectors. A mask of stony demeanor gives +10 to bluff. Xenoglossy falls under proof, like guard uniforms, language/codes, badges, knowledge of the organization, yadda yadda yadda.

[Psyren]

You can bluff to convince someone of anything, provided you roll high enough.

No. CRB 90:


Note that some lies are so improbable that it is impossible to convince anyone that they are true (subject to GM discretion).

For something sufficiently outlandish, at best they will believe that you believe it, which may result in you being sent to a healer to get your head examined.

[Xuldarinar]

It is important to remember that the rules say some lies automatically fail subject to DM discretion because they are so improbable they are impossible to pass as truth.

So the most useful lie in combat is the one that stops it. A good one is that you are actually allies of the said enemies attacking you, or at least friendly enough they should let you be on their way. You are undercover cops when the guards come, or something. Even better, you convince said enemies you are their superiors or commanders, although this is harder. Another lie is that you are far more powerful than you seem, which can go from subtle(actually powerful spellcaster) to insane (dragon in humanoid form, lich lord, deity). You could also convince the enemy they are in no shape to fight(the elves are too tired) with a good bluff check.

As far as that you cast a spell, anyone with spellcraft training or the ability to detect magic can call you on your BS.

Out of combat, if my character is good at it I will lie about anything to get ahead. Anything that won't put me in mortal danger. Hell,I might tell white lies and innocuous lies for fun, or without even knowing. Most people like all the time.

Mechanically, be a bard and cast glibness, aka, anyone will believe you and can't magically see through the lie without a check. Plus, you are a bard, so you probably have bluff or a relevant versatile performance maxed, masterwork instrument +2, with good charisma. Then possess convincing proof for up to a +10, make them drunk/impaired(beaten up might count) for a +5, or make them want to believe you by liking you for another +5. Sorcerers and rogues can to a lesser extent, but glibness is bard only spell. Sorcerers have a rakshasa bloodline that has a mini glibness bloodline power, but it is only +5 instead of +20 from glibness but keeps the ability to foil magical lie detectors. A mask of stony demeanor gives +10 to bluff. Xenoglossy falls under proof, like guard uniforms, language/codes, badges, knowledge of the organization, yadda yadda yadda.

Thank you.

Though one thing I need to add; Sorcerers can learn Glibness.

Additionally; Dandy Rangers, Mesmerists, Questioner Investigators, Rhetorician Witches, Skalds, Spell Sage Wizards, and Urban Bloodragers can all manage to cast it.

[Jay R]

"The entry in the manual was written as an elaborate test of your adherence to procedure, which you've passed. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html)"
"Anything written in there that contradicts what I'm telling you is just another part of the test."
"Congratulations on your vigilance, though! You're getting promoted! Report to the courthouse for your new assignment."
"You don't see or hear us."
"You don't work here anymore."
"You're actually a yellow-footed rock wallaby."
"Incidentally, it's not at all weird that you worship a puppet, Roy really respects your opinions - and the answer to your question from the last panel of the previous strip is, 'No, not at all.'"

"Also, General Tarquin was just here and told us to tell you to tell us where you're keeping a prisoner named Ian Starshine, and then to never mention that you did to anyone, ever. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0768.html)"
"Oh, and your manual is a pack of treasonous lies being spread by, I dunno, angry separatist muskrats."

[Psyren]

I'd guess that scenes like the above are precisely why PF nerfed Bluff from its 3.5 incarnation.