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View Full Version : DM Help So I have a problem, and I hate the solution



Odessa333
2016-06-28, 07:33 PM
So I'm the DM of a new game. It's been years since I DM'd, nearly a decade now, so to say I'm rusty would be kind. Games I used to run in a basement I'm now running on a computer, and the switch is tricky to learn. Still, I have six players who have been kind enough to stick through my growing pains this last month we've been gaming. Four sessions in now, and so I sent them all a private message, asking them how they were enjoying the game, what they liked, what could be improved, and the like. I want to make sure everyone is having fun, and if I need to adapt, I would.

And what I'm finding out is that the majority of my players all have a problem with one player.

I didn't expect that answer, you know? I've talked with the player before hand as I thought I was the only to notice X, and I thought it was taken care of already.... but apparently it's still an issue. I dread that I'm going to have to kick a player from the group who tells me things like 'I haven't enjoyed a game like this for some time' and I hate it. I'm going to write him tonight, give him one more chance to try to fix this... and yet I'm dreading that too. I don't want drama. This part of the job is the worst :(

Draconi Redfir
2016-06-28, 07:40 PM
what exactly is the problem the others are having with them? Hard to help fix something if you don't know what's broken.

Noje
2016-06-28, 09:13 PM
I've been in that situation and I hated it. The worst part was that the player that everyone had trouble with was a good friend of mine. I didn't do anything about the problem and it eventually killed the campaign. My solution was to not tell him about the next campaign I ran.

If your players are having trouble with specific actions the problem player takes, it's pretty easy to pull him aside to talk to him about it. If the players just don't like your problem player in general, there is no real easy fix rather than ask him to leave or tell your other players to man up.

Draconi Redfir
2016-06-28, 09:48 PM
As a very broad and general advice, from someone who has BEEN that player once or twice. Be blunt. Tell the player exactly what the problem is, when it's happening, give them multiple examples, but most importantly; Suggest to them ways to fix the problem, multiple if possible. You can't fix a problem if you don't know what the problem is or how to fix it. If you can't think of a way to fix the problem, and the other players can't think of a way to fix the problem, then everyone will just have to suck it up.

Similarly if you still see the other players heckling the outcast player or giving them grief long after the problem was dealt with, tell them to lay off it. Nobody likes being reminded of past mistakes, and nobody likes people who hold a grudge for too long.

The thing about mistakes unfortunately is that most of the time? You aren't even aware you're making them, you don't know what the problem is, you don't know how to fix it, as far as you are aware you're just playing the game like everyone else. If someone can't pinpoint exact examples for you and help you out with it, there's not much that will be done about it.

JNAProductions
2016-06-28, 09:49 PM
As a very broad and general advice, from someone who has BEEN that player once or twice. Be blunt. Tell the player exactly what the problem is, when it's happening, give them multiple examples, but most importantly; Suggest to them ways to fix the problem, multiple if possible. You can't fix a problem if you don't know what the problem is or how to fix it. If you can't think of a way to fix the problem, and the other players can't think of a way to fix the problem, then everyone will just have to suck it up.

Similarly if you still see the other players heckling the outcast player or giving them grief long after the problem was dealt with, tell them to lay off it. Nobody likes being reminded of past mistakes, and nobody likes people who hold a grudge for too long.

The thing about mistakes unfortunately is that most of the time? You aren't even aware you're making them, you don't know what the problem is, you don't know how to fix it, as far as you are aware you're just playing the game like everyone else. If someone can't pinpoint exact examples for you and help you out with it, there's not much that will be done about it.

Going to second this, because damn, son, that's some solid advice. Listen to Draconi-smart person there.

Odessa333
2016-06-28, 11:37 PM
I agree with it, too well. Just last week I had a solid group I was a player in fall apart over the majority of players complaining about me. I don't know what was said exactly, but the DM told he was no longer comfortable DM'ing for the others as they violated the safe space rules of the group, which isn't promising (said the lesbian transgender woman).

I doubt I could explain the issue here, at least not to my liking. In trying, I've been told I have a co-DM, someone who exudes too much authority over the group with his better understanding of the rules and meta-knowledge of everyone's abilities. From his PM's I know his efforts to help are meant well, but he often talks over me while trying to help, which is a problem. He is typically on the DM side of things so he has a hard time switching off 'DM mode' as it were. He has a lot of positive qualities to him, but he comes off as a know it all with control issues. I've talked with him about it before in private, as I noticed it after the first session. He's better than he was, but it still happens enough that others have weighed in on it now.

I sent him a PM before this, and all I can do now is hope for the best.

TheYell
2016-06-30, 01:20 AM
My group is on the mature side but we generally welcome such expertise. Some of us are on disability and have all day to read the booksand others work graveyard and prefer to sleep in their free time. As a general rule the answer to a know it all is either learn enough to explain how hes wrong or if you find out hes right, listen to him.

However you said he talks over you which is a different problem altogether. I recommend you get a hotel style push bell and ring it til you have the floor. This is a real life solution and is usually more acceptable to drown out interruptions than give people ultimatums. my two cents as a past Grand Knight i had a gavel and used it without resentment.

Pugwampy
2016-06-30, 06:34 AM
There can be only one Dungeon Master . A mature former Dungeon Master player should understand that and give all the space the new Dungeon Master needs , heck be the new Dungeon Master,s biggest supporter . He is welcome to offer advice but only when asked for .

Put him back in charge or kick him .

Honest Tiefling
2016-06-30, 11:40 AM
Given your past experience, is their complaint valid? It sounds like he's trying to be helpful, and people are interpreting that as controlling the game or possibly their character when he might not mean that. I suggest still talking to the player, such as informing them that others need time to learn the ropes, including making mistakes. You appreciate his enthusiasm, it is really nice to see someone so into the game, but you need him to turn it down a notch so you can answer questions. If you think they can take it and are that sort of person, lay it out bluntly. Your attempts to help are great, but some people are taking it the wrong way/aren't enjoying it. I guess I'm a little late, but oh well.

And here's a question: Does he interrupt YOUR fun of the game?

Quertus
2016-06-30, 01:27 PM
I agree with it, too well. Just last week I had a solid group I was a player in fall apart over the majority of players complaining about me. I don't know what was said exactly, but the DM told he was no longer comfortable DM'ing for the others as they violated the safe space rules of the group, which isn't promising (said the lesbian transgender woman).

I doubt I could explain the issue here, at least not to my liking. In trying, I've been told I have a co-DM, someone who exudes too much authority over the group with his better understanding of the rules and meta-knowledge of everyone's abilities. From his PM's I know his efforts to help are meant well, but he often talks over me while trying to help, which is a problem. He is typically on the DM side of things so he has a hard time switching off 'DM mode' as it were. He has a lot of positive qualities to him, but he comes off as a know it all with control issues. I've talked with him about it before in private, as I noticed it after the first session. He's better than he was, but it still happens enough that others have weighed in on it now.

I sent him a PM before this, and all I can do now is hope for the best.


My group is on the mature side but we generally welcome such expertise. Some of us are on disability and have all day to read the booksand others work graveyard and prefer to sleep in their free time. As a general rule the answer to a know it all is either learn enough to explain how hes wrong or if you find out hes right, listen to him.

However you said he talks over you which is a different problem altogether. I recommend you get a hotel style push bell and ring it til you have the floor. This is a real life solution and is usually more acceptable to drown out interruptions than give people ultimatums. my two cents as a past Grand Knight i had a gavel and used it without resentment.


There can be only one Dungeon Master . A mature former Dungeon Master player should understand that and give all the space the new Dungeon Master needs , heck be the new Dungeon Master,s biggest supporter . He is welcome to offer advice but only when asked for .

Put him back in charge or kick him .

Having someone who is knowledgeable with the rules and willing to help out is great!

An adult who hasn't learned not to talk over other people... that's the kind of social ineptitude that tends to get associated with gaming geeks... oh, wait. :smalltongue:

This is clearly a social issue, independent of gaming. Talk with... hmmm... him? your group?... to figure out what style of solution will work for y'all. Do not speak unless spoken to, gavel / bell of silence, shock collar, etc. But don't make this a purely negative experience - make sure to thank him when he is helpful without speaking over you!

kyoryu
2016-06-30, 02:21 PM
The answer to this is always the same:

1) Establish expectations, if they're not. "Hey, player, people have noticed <x>. What's going on? We'd normally expect <y>, were you expecting something else?"

2) Establish boundaries, kindly. "Hey, player, you know, we really need you to stop doing <x>. It's causing <y> result with the other players. I'll be happy to give you a signal or something if you start, but it needs to stop. If you're working through other stuff, that's cool, but don't take it out on the table, and if you can't, maybe you need to take a break until everything is working out alright for you."

3) Set limits. "Hey, player, you're welcome at the table, but behavior <x> is not. If it continues, we'll have to ask you to leave."

4) Removal. "Hey, player, you know, we really like you as a person, but <x> behavior is causing too much disruption. We're going to have to ask you not to game with us. Be happy to hang in other capacities, but the gaming isn't working."

You can compress these as required.

Most people are decent people, and a lot of conflicts are because of mismatched expectations or people being unaware of what they're doing or the impact it's having. Pointing out the conflict and expressing that it's not acceptable and what impact it's having on the table.

Also, make sure you focus on the *behavior*, not the *person*. "Hey, Tom, when you raise your voice and yell? That's not okay." vs. "Hey, Tom, you're angry and violent, you can't come to our game."

etnom0
2016-07-01, 06:37 PM
I agree with it, too well. Just last week I had a solid group I was a player in fall apart over the majority of players complaining about me. I don't know what was said exactly, but the DM told he was no longer comfortable DM'ing for the others as they violated the safe space rules of the group, which isn't promising (said the lesbian transgender woman).

I doubt I could explain the issue here, at least not to my liking. In trying, I've been told I have a co-DM, someone who exudes too much authority over the group with his better understanding of the rules and meta-knowledge of everyone's abilities. From his PM's I know his efforts to help are meant well, but he often talks over me while trying to help, which is a problem. He is typically on the DM side of things so he has a hard time switching off 'DM mode' as it were. He has a lot of positive qualities to him, but he comes off as a know it all with control issues. I've talked with him about it before in private, as I noticed it after the first session. He's better than he was, but it still happens enough that others have weighed in on it now.

I sent him a PM before this, and all I can do now is hope for the best.

Being a DM in a player position can be a hard one. If all he/she has know is being a DM because no one wants to run a campaign for him/her it's going to be hard to shut off that DM vibe.
Remind them that they are there to be the PLAYER and enjoy the game. While the knowledge base is large due to experience it is not necessarily wanted in this situation. With this player constantly sending out the information with out being asked they are hampering the experience of the group both in playing and learning more about the game being played. People want to learn about their characters and DM's are no different. If this person is constantly stepping over you there can be little room to grow. Express that to them