What class should I be? +Monk/Bard possible?

[Sianthus]

Hey fellow players! I'm still new to 5e so i'm not too familiar with the game as of now. What I do have is a character concept with a backstory, but I'm not sure what class would fit him the most!

So enter Kaelern Riversong. Born to a nondescript village ensconced in a quiet viridian glade, Kaelern had a childhood devoid of any hardship beyond the self important ones kids imagine for themselves. But idyllic sanctuaries never last long in any realm. The drums of war was brought to his doorstep, but luckily for the village and him, there was no pillaging nor even any violence. It was simply, a recruitment.

His father, stricken by a touch of disease, urged Kaelern to join. The resident bard and medic with the soldiers was an old friend of his, and it would be good for him to see the world. His mother and him could take care of themselves: they were surrounded by loving Riversong kin after all.

And so he went.

It wasn't an army he followed, oh no. On his father's behest, he had joined this mercenary company. The Sunstriders, they were called. From what snippets he heard from his father and his own observation, the company had a decent reputation. Sellswords still, but one with a sense of honor at least. He apprenticed under his father's old friend, a wizened man by the name of Temern. As all apprenticeships go, many a scuffing was suffered under his strict, but kind teaching. He learnt how to carry a tune on a flute, to bandage the worst of wounds, and wield a blade with grace and finesse: For all his peaceful duties, his life now was one inseparable from the battlefield after all.

And so he learnt.

Years passed. Kaelern had grown to be a somewhat unassuming man. He possessed a build that hovered between thin and lithe, a slightly crooked nose from one too many brawls, and a top of unkempt hair swept a dirty brown with sand and dust. Yet on the battlefield, he was a sight to behold. Weaving a fascinating tapestry of blood and steel, his normally dull grey eyes burned with a steely glow like an echo of his strange looking blade. A soft melody always strangely played around him then too. A mourning song, the soldiers around him realised later. A dirge to guide the souls of the battlefield to unyielding rest. Yet why that was, nobody could say.

In truth, in all his years, Temern his mentor had been trying to learn.. something, poring over volumes of brittle vellum and paper to the great bewilderment of his student. But on his deathbed, Temern had told him all. But it came, with a task. As his one and only student, Kaelern Riversong was to make a flute out of his bones and bathe it in the blood of the strong. It was tradition he said, to seek out worthy opponents and challenge their strength. It was why he hovered over the edges of conflict around the world, and now it was Kaelern's turn. He was to become what people call him in hushed tones, for they had named him true. He was to wear the mantle of war's herald, and a keeper of the fallen's stories. He was to become, a Dirgeblade.

And so he fought.

So whether or not you've read that long wall of text, basically I want him to be able to weave in and out of battle easily. To strike hard and step back out. He's gonna be Variant Human, (or wood elf/half elf, i'm open to suggestions :D). Let's assume standard array! He primarily uses a bladed weapon, either a rapier or a shortsword, made out of the bones of his mentor (see above :D). He also has some musical training.

I've been considering Monk, because they're great at skirmishing. Most probably Way of the Open Hand. But I've heard poor things about their damage from people so I'm worried I'd fall behind?

I also thought about Valor Bard, since the battle seeking Skald/Warrior Poet is very appropriate. I want to remain in melee more though so I was wondering if they can actually pull that off. I wouldn't actually need a free hand since my weapon would be an arcane focus (instrument) interestingly enough.

I also thought about a Monk/Bard multiclass. Maybe 17/3 respectively? This is really my preference but I'm not sure how to make it work. It's gonna be MAD, since I'm gonna need Dex, Wis, Con, and now Char, but maybe i could use non charisma check/saving throw spells and dump it a little

Other thoughts include Battlemaster Fighter, and.. Assassin Rogue? But they fit the theme much worse.


Any suggestions and help would be very much appreciated! :D

[Vorpalchicken]

I would just go straight valor bard with the mobile feat. Multiclass is annoying as a full caster- assuming you are playing from level 1. Your your dm may restrict combination weapon/foci however.. I wouldn't count on it's allowance.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

First: don't listen to people that say Monks can't do damage, Monks can do anywhere from 3 to 4 attacks per round, all with their Dex mod adding to the damage, beginning at 2nd level. Their fists are magical weapons at 6th level, a lot of people won't even have a magical weapon at 6th level, etc. etc. But one picks a monk not for DPR, but all the special abilities they get (stunning strike being one of the most wonderful).

Your choice of Open Hand Monk is a good one, especially if you can get him to level 17 for his Quivering Palm. If your build won't get him to 17 levels of monk, I would recommend the Long Death Monk from SCAG, that's a really great monk to multiclass with.

A Bard/Monk is an interesting multiclass idea. No reason to go Valor Bard though since you will be getting all your combat abilities from the monk and the Lore bard is simply better. If you are going M17/B3, you are right, you don't need high Charisma for that and you could get away with the minimum of 13 needed to multiclass the bard.

Another combo could be M14/B6. You could get some more spells from the bard and the very nice level 6 Magical Secrets ability for the Lore Bard. In addition, Monk level 14 is really nice because you get Diamond Soul, making you proficient in ALL of your saving throws.

Variant Human, Wood Elf, Ghostwise Halfling, or Half-Elf would all be good choices for your build. Variant Human is always nice to start off with a feat, and something like Mobile or Lucky can be really helpful.

[gfishfunk]

Monks are great. What you described, however, is a Bard with the Mobile feat. I would take Bard and the Mobile feat as your variant free feat at level 1.

I would not multi-class Monk and Bard because that will REALLY spread out your ability scores.

ALTERNATIVELY: you could go full monk and take the performer background. You will not have access to Bard spells or other cool Bard stuff, but you will have a musical Monk that is able to weave in and out of combat by virtue of being a monk. If you do this, you do not NEED to take mobility or any other feat, so you are free to be any race you want.

HOWEVER, you won't be using a rapier, but instead will likely want to use a short sword or other monk weapon or remain hands free. Monks deal decent damage but really shine when applying affects and stuff. A low level monk can make tons of attacks against different enemies, and can use stunning fist and do cool stuff. High level monks can dish out a good amount of damage.

[Dizlag]

Kaelern just seems like a Valor Bard to me. Have you ever read The Black Company books by Glen Cook (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Company)? The mercenary company chronicler part of your backstory reminded me of these great books!

If your DM allows stuff from the Sword Coast book, you might think about multiclassing into a Swashbuckler Rogue. The main ability is to not draw opportunity attacks by moving out of combat ... the Disengage action is part of your attack. Not sure if you need to use your bonus action for a second weapon attack or not. Don't have the book with me. It gives you the ability to move in and out of combat without drawing attention.

Anyways, I love the backstory and looks like you'll have a lot of fun playing this character.

Dizlag

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Some ability score possibilities for Monk 17/Bard 3 or even Monk 14/Bard 6 (ending stats in parenthesis).

Variant Human (plus one starting feat, of course)
Str 8
Dex 15 (20)
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 15 (18)
Cha 13

Half-Elf
Str 8
Dex 16 (20)
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 16 (20)
Cha 15

Wood-Elf or Ghostwise Halfling
Str 8
Dex 16 (20)
Con 13 (14)
Int 9
Wis 16 (18)
Cha 13 (14)

Of course, you could always go M16/B4 or M12/B8 to get another ASI.

[Sianthus]

Wow i'm overwhelmed by all the helpful responses :D Thanks guys and gals.


Your dm may restrict combination weapon/foci however.. I wouldn't count on it's allowance.

Duly noted! Though even if he's wielding it in one hand, he's not gonna wield anything in the other. Because flavor XD No shields allowed~


Kaelern just seems like a Valor Bard to me. Have you ever read The Black Company books by Glen Cook (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Company)? The mercenary company chronicler part of your backstory reminded me of these great books!

If your DM allows stuff from the Sword Coast book, you might think about multiclassing into a Swashbuckler Rogue. The main ability is to not draw opportunity attacks by moving out of combat ... the Disengage action is part of your attack.

Funny you should mention that! I was just looking for that series in the library just a few days ago, heard good things about it but i haven't read it yet :D And that's um "Fancy Footwork" right? Yeah that would be great. Might not fit the character though but worth considering!



I'm hearing from the crowd many great suggestions btw :D. M17/B3, Valor Bard with Mobile. Full monk with performer BG (monk does give me a musical instrument prof though :D weird but fitting i guess). And the pointbuy rundown is great Fflewddur Fflam. I'm not used to it since I usually roll, so this was real helpful.

Some questions!

Given that unarmed damage die becomes a d10 eventually, it doesn't make sense to continue using a shortsword/monk weapon for damage as it gets higher right? (barring magic/supa special weapons)

If I do multiclass M17/B3, which class would be better to start as? Both make sense thematically anyway :)

What spells would be good without a high spellcasting stat, if I MC dip into bard? Things like Cure Person and Message would be good i think?

Does Valor Bard alone hold up in melee? Or does he need the SCAG melee cantrips? (though one needs Magic Initiate to get GFB and BB sadly. Or waste magical secrets)



P.S. I try not to be a optimiser but who doesn't like more damage when they can get it :D I prefer roleplay myself, hence the one handing without shield thing XD

[Specter]

Battlemaster/Rogue. Cunning Action is all you need for skirmishing. It would also reflect the training of a man who is not about pure force as much as he is about tactics and precision.

If you focus on Stealth, go Assassin, otherwise go Swashbuckler.

[JeffreyGator]

From the description of seeking people out and such and being an exemplar of combat have you considered paladin options at all? It might be a bit less mad and there can be plenty of ways a paladin could have mobility as well.

Mobility is all about a bit of disengage without it being an action anyway. Lots of ways to do that I suspect.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I'm hearing from the crowd many great suggestions btw :D. M17/B3, Valor Bard with Mobile. Full monk with performer BG (monk does give me a musical instrument prof though :D weird but fitting i guess). And the pointbuy rundown is great Fflewddur Fflam. I'm not used to it since I usually roll, so this was real helpful.

No problem! If you want to make point-buy easy, just use this calculator. http://1-dot-encounter-planner.appspot.com/point-buy-calculator.html

I once again am going to poo poo doing Valor bard with monk. If you just wanted to have a more melee bard as a single class, then absolutely go valor but when he's multiclassed to a monk, he gives you nothing. Bonus proficiencies with medium armor, shields, and martial weapons? Your monk can't use them. Combat Inspiration is not as good as the Lore Bard's Cutting Words.




Given that unarmed damage die becomes a d10 eventually, it doesn't make sense to continue using a shortsword/monk weapon for damage as it gets higher right? (barring magic/supa special weapons)


Ah, here's a funky thing about the monk, his "martial arts" damage applies to both his unarmed strikes AND his monk weapons. So a 17th level monk wielding a +1 shortsword is actually doing 1d10+1+Dex mod per swing rather 1d6+etc. So if you like a monk weapon for whatever reason, you can still use it and your martial arts actually changes it's damage if you want it to (but when you start out at 1d4, you can totally use the normal weapon's damage). Just note that any of your bonus action attacks are always using an unarmed strike rather than a monk weapon.



If I do multiclass M17/B3, which class would be better to start as? Both make sense thematically anyway :)


When multiclassing, it's always good to think about what saving throw proficiencies you start with, and if you are missing anything when taking a class second. The monk starts with Str and Dex as his saves, while the bard starts with Dex and Cha, so whatever you think is most valuable to you. You probably have to do more Str saves in combat than Cha saves so starting with a monk might be best (of course, whenever your monk gets to level 14, which may not be for a long time, this all becomes moot because he will be proficient at all saves).

When you multiclass to bard second, you get a skill proficiency, so you will end up with the same amount of skills anyway (3 plus 2 from your background) since the monk gives you 2 and bard gives you 3 at first level.

[Sianthus]

From the description of seeking people out and such and being an exemplar of combat have you considered paladin options at all? It might be a bit less mad and there can be plenty of ways a paladin could have mobility as well.

Mobility is all about a bit of disengage without it being an action anyway. Lots of ways to do that I suspect.

Thanks for the suggestion :D I'm currently playing a GooBladelock/Pally so i wanted to try something different :D (hehe gooblade)



No problem! If you want to make point-buy easy, just use this calculator. http://1-dot-encounter-planner.appspot.com/point-buy-calculator.html

I once again am going to poo poo doing Valor bard with monk. If you just wanted to have a more melee bard as a single class, then absolutely go valor but when he's multiclassed to a monk, he gives you nothing.


Oh wow. I don't have to do math for that ever again :D That's real useful thanks. And yeah I was meaning OH Monk 17/ Lore Bard 3 :) was just listing out all the different suggestions in order!

And I didn't know that about the Monk weapons! Thanks, i really need to read closer :)

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Oh wow. I don't have to do math for that ever again :D That's real useful thanks. And yeah I was meaning OH Monk 17/ Lore Bard 3 :) was just listing out all the different suggestions in order!

And I didn't know that about the Monk weapons! Thanks, i really need to read closer :)

You're welcome! I was playing a monk for about 2 months before I realized that about monk weapons (and not until I read it in this forum). It's one of those things that is just nonchalantly mentioned in the description for martial arts but one's brain probably ignores because you think "why would I do that?"

It certainly does have its uses if you have a nice magical shortsword or dagger or something.

[Sianthus]

It certainly does have its uses if you have a nice magical shortsword or dagger or something.

Aha I was hoping to work with the DM to eventually make the bone flute shortsword magical in some way after *ahem* defeating (spill their blood on it muahaha) enough strong beings through the course of the campaign. I made it open ended in the backstory so a DM could surprise me/ have fun designing a magic item. :D

That being said, I've decided either MC monk/bard (possibly with mobile or defensive duelist) , OR valor bard (with mobile). I'm very intrigued by valor bard (it's how I initially designed the backstory fun fact) but he's still more of a caster than a melee duelist right?

I do love my Gishes (see gooblade pally) but I wanted more swordy sword mcsword stuff in this char after all XD I even looked at college of blades from UK buut it's UA ~Some dms might not like that

Regardless, I sadly have no game right now to play this char in D': but stil character crafting is fun :D

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Aha I was hoping to work with the DM to eventually make the bone flute shortsword magical in some way after *ahem* defeating (spill their blood on it muahaha) enough strong beings through the course of the campaign. I made it open ended in the backstory so a DM could surprise me/ have fun designing a magic item. :D

That being said, I've decided either MC monk/bard (possibly with mobile or defensive duelist) , OR valor bard (with mobile). I'm very intrigued by valor bard (it's how I initially designed the backstory fun fact) but he's still more of a caster than a melee duelist right?

I do love my Gishes (see gooblade pally) but I wanted more swordy sword mcsword stuff in this char after all XD I even looked at college of blades from UK buut it's UA ~Some dms might not like that

Regardless, I sadly have no game right now to play this char in D': but stil character crafting is fun :D

I'll give you one to think about: Lore Bard 10/Rogue Swashbuckler 10.
Start first level as Human Variant Bard. Take the Magic Initiate feat to get two Warlock cantrips and a 1st level spell. Take Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade as your cantrips, and Hex as a lvl 1 spell you can cast once/long rest (a great spell to pick as it lasts for one hour). Second level, start taking rogue levels, once you get to 3 levels of rogue and have chosen swashbuckler, you've got Fancy Footwork which allows you to move away after an attack without creating an opportunity attack (just like the Mobile feat).

Seeing a Swashbuckler casts booming blade on Melee-only enemies and then moving away from them, forcing them to take the booming blade damage is a hell of a great combo. Combine that with your Hex damage, etc., and you've got quite a good melee combatant. No need to go Valor bard with this build because you will never be using the second attack when you've got stuff like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade which will be your bread and butter with melee attacks.

[Sianthus]

I'll give you one to think about: Lore Bard 10/Rogue Swashbuckler 10.
Start first level as Human Variant Bard. Take the Magic Initiate feat to get two Warlock cantrips and a 1st level spell. Take Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade as your cantrips, and Hex as a lvl 1 spell you can cast once/long rest (a great spell to pick as it lasts for one hour). Second level, start taking rogue levels, once you get to 3 levels of rogue and have chosen swashbuckler, you've got Fancy Footwork which allows you to move away after an attack without creating an opportunity attack (just like the Mobile feat).

Seeing a Swashbuckler casts booming blade on Melee-only enemies and then moving away from them, forcing them to take the booming blade damage is a hell of a great combo. Combine that with your Hex damage, etc., and you've got quite a good melee combatant. No need to go Valor bard with this build because you will never be using the second attack when you've got stuff like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade which will be your bread and butter with melee attacks.

Reading up on SCAG now. This seems incredibly potent and thematic. Much less MAD too. The booming blade shell could be his music itself, a foreboding dirge that damages them when they try to break past it. I'd likely just stick with that throughout for theme if i do go down this route :D. I lose sneak attack dice from the MC but the damage is compensated quite nicely! There's also synergy with Rakish Audacity with a bard's high charisma for a great bonus to initiative. Wow.

Is Magic Initiate really necessary though? I only hit once per turn so Hex is just an additional 1d6 per strike, and I just grab BB from Magical Secrets instead. Kinda a waste yes but saves me a feat! Lore bard 10 does give me.. 4 spells right? Thoughts? :D


Side note: I just noticed a Mercenary Veteran background in SCAG :D I'm a happy player!

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Reading up on SCAG now. This seems incredibly potent and thematic. Much less MAD too. The booming blade shell could be his music itself, a foreboding dirge that damages them when they try to break past it. I'd likely just stick with that throughout for theme if i do go down this route :D. I lose sneak attack dice from the MC but the damage is compensated quite nicely! There's also synergy with Rakish Audacity with a bard's high charisma for a great bonus to initiative. Wow.

Is Magic Initiate really necessary though? I only hit once per turn so Hex is just an additional 1d6 per strike, and I just grab BB from Magical Secrets instead. Kinda a waste yes but saves me a feat! Lore bard 10 does give me.. 4 spells right? Thoughts? :D


Side note: I just noticed a Mercenary Veteran background in SCAG :D I'm a happy player!

Well, you're right, you could take Booming Blade from Magical Secrets with a Valor Bard at level 10 (or from a Lore Bard at level 6) but that's waiting a loooooooooooong time to get a spell that's going to make your character work as a melee bad-ass, especially if you are multiclassing with swashbuckler. Also too, you could be getting a much higher level spell with that ability than wasting it on a cantrip.

With Human Variant, you can get those cantrips right out of the gate at first level with the Magic Initiate feat and as soon as you hit 3rd level as a Swashbuckler, you are off to the races. It can sometimes take many months of playing to get your character at 10th level or higher. Why wait that long for something you can be doing immediately at 1st level?

Also, you are underrating hex, that's a great addition and you can be getting it more than once per turn if you are two-weapon fighting. You cast Booming Blade and hit with a short-sword, doing your melee damage plus sneak attack plus hex necrotic plus booming blade damage (woof!), that attack action enables you to make a bonus attack with your off-hand weapon (say another shortsword) for melee damage plus hex necrotic, and then you use fancy footwork to just move away without causing an opportunity attack. Thus Hex would give you an additional 2d6 of damage per round, and it's necrotic which is rarely resisted. That's good stuff, Homes.

[Foxhound438]

First: don't listen to people that say Monks can't do damage, Monks can do anywhere from 3 to 4 attacks per round, all with their Dex mod adding to the damage, beginning at 2nd level. Their fists are magical weapons at 6th level, a lot of people won't even have a magical weapon at 6th level, etc. etc. But one picks a monk not for DPR, but all the special abilities they get (stunning strike being one of the most wonderful).


eh, you do "fall behind" in pure damage later on, compared to stupidly borderline-broken things like GWM barbarian, but you're correct in that you aren't as worried about DPR as you are about the other monk stuff.

As a side note I would say that swashbucker rogue fits your theme decently, and does exactly what you want it to do in combat. The issue you might find with that as opposed to mobile monk is that you wouldn't really have the movement speed to kite things like that. Sure you get bonus action dash, but you end up going 30 feet in, attack once, then cunning action 30 feet out and if that guy decides to fight you, you're still in his movement range, most likely. mobile monk on the other hand has 50 feet of speed no strings attached from L2, and it also has the bonus dash if you really need it, albeit at greater expense.

[Sianthus]

Well, you're right, you could take Booming Blade from Magical Secrets with a Valor Bard at level 10 (or from a Lore Bard at level 6) but that's waiting a loooooooooooong time to get a spell that's going to make your character work as a melee bad-ass


Also, you are underrating hex, that's a great addition and you can be getting it more than once per turn if you are two-weapon fighting. You cast Booming Blade and hit with a short-sword, doing your melee damage plus sneak attack plus hex necrotic plus booming blade damage (woof!), that attack action enables you to make a bonus attack with your off-hand weapon (say another shortsword) for melee damage plus hex necrotic, and then you use fancy footwork to just move away without causing an opportunity attack. Thus Hex would give you an additional 2d6 of damage per round, and it's necrotic which is rarely resisted. That's good stuff, Homes.

Mmm I realised that before I slept last night too XD I'd have to wait till level 9 to get BB from magical secrets (LB6/SR3)

Oh? I thought you couldn't do an off weapon attack after using a melee cantrip. Because that's based on making an attack action no? It'd be a good fall back if I don't use BB cos of resistance still though, then TWF with 2d6 necrotic :D


The issue you might find with that as opposed to mobile monk is that you wouldn't really have the movement speed to kite things like that. Sure you get bonus action dash, but you end up going 30 feet in, attack once, then cunning action 30 feet out and if that guy decides to fight you, you're still in his movement range, most likely. mobile monk on the other hand has 50 feet of speed no strings attached from L2, and it also has the bonus dash if you really need it, albeit at greater expense.

Noted!

[djreynolds]

Valor bard/swashbuckler, both charisma users and dex users, lot of expertise in skills. Two attacks, can fight in leather armor with a shield.

Grab shield master and expertise in athletics, endless possibilities. Who needs green flame blade when you sneak attack anyone almost

very musketeer

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Oh? I thought you couldn't do an off weapon attack after using a melee cantrip. Because that's based on making an attack action no?

If a spell specifies that you are making a melee or ranged attack, then casting that spell is an attack action. Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade require you to make a melee attack with a weapon, if that weapon is a light weapon, then that enables the condition for you to make an attack with another light weapon in your off-hand as a bonus action via Two-Weapon Fighting.

[MrStabby]

If a spell specifies that you are making a melee or ranged attack, then casting that spell is an attack action. Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade require you to make a melee attack with a weapon, if that weapon is a light weapon, then that enables the condition for you to make an attack with another light weapon in your off-hand as a bonus action via Two-Weapon Fighting.

I don't think so? Where in the PHB did this come from?

[Socratov]

If a spell specifies that you are making a melee or ranged attack, then casting that spell is an attack action. Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade require you to make a melee attack with a weapon, if that weapon is a light weapon, then that enables the condition for you to make an attack with another light weapon in your off-hand as a bonus action via Two-Weapon Fighting.

That´s not how it works:


As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack’s normal effects, and green fire leaps from the target to a different creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The second creature takes fire damage equal to your spellcasting modifier.

This spell’s damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 fire damage to the target, and the fire damage to the second creature increases to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level and 17th level.

emphasis mine.

You don't get to take hte attack action, you get to make a melee attack with a weapon agaisnt one creature within the spell's range. You don't get to take the Attack action which is a specific action. so no iterative attacks, no offhand atack, no shield bash, etc. etc.

The only thing that does work to give an atatck through a bonus action is Battle magic: the lvl 14 valor bard ability which states:


At 14th level, you have mastered the art of weaving spellcasting and weapon use into a single harmonious act. When you use your action to cast a bard spell, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.

[djreynolds]

7th level EK, gets cantrip and attack

and later on battle magic

[Fflewddur Fflam]

That´s not how it works:



emphasis mine.

You don't get to take hte attack action, you get to make a melee attack with a weapon agaisnt one creature within the spell's range. You don't get to take the Attack action which is a specific action. so no iterative attacks, no offhand atack, no shield bash, etc. etc.

The only thing that does work to give an atatck through a bonus action is Battle magic: the lvl 14 valor bard ability which states:

Sheee-oot. I thought casting an attacking spell was an attack action. Okay, thanks for the correction.

[Sianthus]

I see I see :D just curious here btw, does battlemaster maneuvers work with BB/GFB? It'd be amusing if I could :D precision/menacing attack BB then with sneak attack.


Grab shield master and expertise in athletics, endless possibilities. Who needs green flame blade when you sneak attack anyone almost

very musketeer

Mm great idea, that does give me lots of damage with the advantage from shoving the person prone :D sadly this char concept doesn't use a shield D:

[Socratov]

I see I see :D just curious here btw, does battlemaster maneuvers work with BB/GFB? It'd be amusing if I could :D precision/menacing attack BB then with sneak attack.

nope, for exactly teh same reason: you are not taking the attack action (during which you may use a superiority die to augment or change your attack), it's just an attack you make as aprt of the spell.

The interesting question would be: does spellsniper (which doubles the range on spells) increase your melee range to be able to hit at 10' instead of 5' (i.e. normal melee) reach? and how does it mesh with Polearms or reach weapons?

[Sianthus]

nope, for exactly teh same reason: you are not taking the attack action (during which you may use a superiority die to augment or change your attack), it's just an attack you make as aprt of the spell.

The interesting question would be: does spellsniper (which doubles the range on spells) increase your melee range to be able to hit at 10' instead of 5' (i.e. normal melee) reach? and how does it mesh with Polearms or reach weapons?

Only the commander's strike indicates “when you take the Attack action on your turn" though, most others say "when you hit a creature with a weapon attack" like disarming attack, or "when you make a melee weapon attack on your turn" like lunging attack. Only the first one mentions the attack action :) might be dm dependent for this?

And yeah I've heard of the spell sniper booming blade warcaster sentinel combo X'D absolutely no one comes close. NO ONE I SAY. (not sure if legal but it's funny to contemplate :D)

[Socratov]

Only the commander's strike indicates “when you take the Attack action on your turn" though, most others say "when you hit a creature with a weapon attack" like disarming attack, or "when you make a melee weapon attack on your turn" like lunging attack. Only the first one mentions the attack action :) might be dm dependent for this?
good point, certainly one if favour of rulign it that way

And yeah I've heard of the spell sniper booming blade warcaster sentinel combo X'D absolutely no one comes close. NO ONE I SAY. (not sure if legal but it's funny to contemplate :D)

tack on GWM, PAM and you've got a winning combo of keeping people at 10'or doing massive damage. Though I'd rather use Green Flame Blade isntead since they can't move before your next turn as through sentinel their speed drops to 0'.

[MrStabby]

This is assuming no access in your campaign to UA or SCAG material. If you do, you can pretty much do anything half reasonable and it will be ok with SCAG cantrips.

So my thoughts would go with:

1) Oath of the ancients paladin with a background in musical instruments. As long as you don't intend to multiclass you are fine with dex over str. It gives high charisma benefits, healing and fits with a happy and outgoing outlook as well as the usher the souls to the next world kind of dirge singer.

2) Valor bard + rogue. Rogue adds more mobility and more melee damage to the bard chassis, cunning action is superb. No shortage of skills and expertise here either

3) Lore bard + Fighter + rogue. Finesse battlemaster for 2 attacks and some flashy moves, rogue for a touch of sneak attack and cunning action again. Bard for the music, healing and flavour (and a few very useful spells)

4) Rogue/Warlock. Rogue gives you the same cunning action and with an appropriate background can get you expertise in musical instruments. Warlock gives you a melee boost and some good casting for support. Sure, its more a "sold your soul at the crossroads for musical ability" type of musician but I thought I would throw it in. Downside is you would need a feat or another class dip to get the healing in here.

[Socratov]

Oh, wait there was another topic regarding the character :smallamused:

I'd go with Rogue(Swashbuckler) 3/Lore Bard X

get lots of initiative, focus on cha/dex, cast spells and when the spells end or become less useful, get out your rapier and reap what you've sown with 2d6 sneak attack applied almost always, plus you get the standard rogue fatures and lots of skills.

You could reverse the classes for the order of bard/rogue/rogue/rogue/bard+ and fluff it like he was trained as a bard, but needed to learn to fend (fence?) for himself, before returning to his great passion of music. I'd suggest half-elf for making awesome bard and the cha bonus in particular (but don't knock the +1's) and the darkvision (very useful). Warcaster could be a very useful feat if you do pick variant human. Now, during your turn you can move, attack/cast, inspire and cut words (reaction) and as a bonus dash, disengage or hide. Also, you have pretty much 4 skills expertised and at least 4 skills proficient (and more depending on race/background up to 10 proficient at lvl 6(half-elf+bard+rogue+lorebard+background = 1+3+1+3+2, not even counting tools)

[Sianthus]

This is assuming no access in your campaign to UA or SCAG material. If you do, you can pretty much do anything half reasonable and it will be ok with SCAG cantrips.

So my thoughts would go with:

1) Oath of the ancients paladin with a background in musical instruments. As long as you don't intend to multiclass you are fine with dex over str. It gives high charisma benefits, healing and fits with a happy and outgoing outlook as well as the usher the souls to the next world kind of dirge singer.

2) Valor bard + rogue. Rogue adds more mobility and more melee damage to the bard chassis, cunning action is superb. No shortage of skills and expertise here either

3) Lore bard + Fighter + rogue. Finesse battlemaster for 2 attacks and some flashy moves, rogue for a touch of sneak attack and cunning action again. Bard for the music, healing and flavour (and a few very useful spells)

4) Rogue/Warlock. Rogue gives you the same cunning action and with an appropriate background can get you expertise in musical instruments. Warlock gives you a melee boost and some good casting for support. Sure, its more a "sold your soul at the crossroads for musical ability" type of musician but I thought I would throw it in. Downside is you would need a feat or another class dip to get the healing in here.

Not sure if my DM allows SCAG yeah :) Probably at least the cantrips.

1) I like dex builds! I always preferred the quick mobile ones rather than "I STAND HERE AND HIT AND GET HIT" characters as a whole. Even across other media I enjoy them more :D Although someone like a barbarian/Arnold Schwarzenegger/The Rock shrugging off everything is nice once in a while too. In this case, Kaelern's not exactly a happy/outgoing person though :P It's not clear in the backstory i wrote (because it'd get so lonoong if i did) but his personality eventually becomes the "I must fight the strong" combat junkie. Somewhat detached due to witnessing so much violence as a mercenary too. Part of it being compassion fatigue from being a healer (like today's doctors/nurses) you know? :)

2) Yep. Fits the duelist vibe.

3) Yep. Same here. Bit more complicated MC. I was wondering if i could sneak in a Martial Adept Feat for 2 maneuvers/short rest instead of dropping 3 levels or more for BM MC. Both number 2 and 3 builds upon the Lore 10/Swash 10 discussion earlier :D

4) Great concept too. Only hesitance is that I'm playing a warlock right now. I'm honestly sure very little DM would complain if I just asked for a musical instrument proficiency outside of my background/class. Maybe swop one out or something. No one could be that stingy.. right? XD

[MrStabby]

4) Great concept too. Only hesitance is that I'm playing a warlock right now. I'm honestly sure very little DM would complain if I just asked for a musical instrument proficiency outside of my background/class. Maybe swop one out or something. No one could be that stingy.. right? XD

Ah, away from book I thought if a class background proficiency overlapped with race/class you could select another tool or skill proficiency instead.