Options That Increase Through Hit Dice Or Level

[Afgncaap5]

I've been offered a chance to play in a Pathfinder game, and while I do enjoy Pathfinder it's a little outside my wheelhouse of 3.5, 5e, and Cosmic Patrol. Lately I've been enamored by simpler character choices, though they tend to be suboptimal and won't really contribute to the long run health of a team. The Aristocrat class, despite its lack of features, beckons. I know, I know, I could just as easily be a Rogue or Fighter or Sorcerer and be "an aristocrat" through story, but that doesn't appeal as much.

So, does anybody know of any good character options that increase through player's hit dice or class level? Specifically I'm looking at things like how Initiator level in 3.5 increases even in non-initiator classes or how caster level can increase in Spheres of Power via the Advanced Magical Training feat, or even how the proposed Dragonmark feats in 5e become more useful as an Eberron player levels up.

And, for the record, I'm not married to the idea of making this an Aristocrat, it's just a good example of the awful directions I see myself going in.

[Knight Magenta]

I think you will need to be more specific about what you want here. For one, what do you mean by simple? Is Fighter simple? How about ranger?

As for scaling options, Power Attack scales. If the campaign stays to low levels (capping at 6), you could reasonably play anything with a high strength and power attack.

I've been thinking of playing an npc class with 2 levels for each PC level everyone else has. It might be interesting. A warrior with this rule gets +2 bab per level, 9+con hp, and a feat. That's pretty reasonable, and the CRs should work out.

[Psyren]

Even if you're attracted to Aristocrat, I'd go with a PC-ized version of that class, like the Noble from Dragonlance or the Marshal from Miniatures Handbook. Aristocrats only advantage comes at early levels when they have more wealth than a PC, but WBL means the PCs quickly catch up. You can simulate this on a PC class via the Rich Parents trait from PF.

[Azoth]

You can be a princess with a trait. Noble Scion (the feat) makes you a noble or at least of noble descent. Noble Scion (the PRC) is full fledged nobility with two descent perks, but otherwise is pretty garbage.

[Afgncaap5]

I think you will need to be more specific about what you want here. For one, what do you mean by simple? Is Fighter simple? How about ranger?

No, Fighter and Ranger are still pretty concretely defined as classes rather than as story figures, Ranger origins notwithstanding. I'm looking more at being a merchant caravan leader, or the former admiral in a dwarfish navy, or the one beggar in the thieve's guild who's not good enough at it to steal anything but everyone likes him enough to not kick him out. Pathfinder's story feats are... not quite right, even if their hearts are in the right place. The d20 retrofit of the Adventure! game (and its two sister games Aberrant and Trinity) had background feats that are almost perfect, but they're not really available in Pathfinder.

At least... I assume they wouldn't be, the GM said he didn't want third party without a particularly good reason, though he's already okayed some things like Spheres of Power.



As for scaling options, Power Attack scales. If the campaign stays to low levels (capping at 6), you could reasonably play anything with a high strength and power attack.

That's a good one. I hadn't noticed that they'd changed that between Pathfinder and 3.5, so thanks for pointing that out. Sadly, this is a campaign that'll be starting at 6, so while it's an option, there are probably better ones.

In terms of feats that scale or remain useful, it might be good to go back to the Adventure! background feats as an example. They were feat chains that allowed you to have progressively more expertise, clout, capability, or history in a certain area. One let you be a representative for a major organization, such as a business or church or secret society, another allowed you to have some sort of gadget or magic item that was associated with your character (the example they used is that Batman might still be Batman without his Batmobile or Utility Belt, but Kevin Secord wouldn't really be The Rocketeer without his Rocket). Another made you rich, wildly rich, and able to by expensive things on short notice if you could pass a check related to a "wealth score" ("We need to get to Q'Barra by Thursday? Let me call my banker in the Mror Holds, he can wire some funds to me and I'll have us there by Tuesday. There's a speedy airship I've had my eye on that'll get us there in style...") Still another feat chain gave you a Nemesis that your GM might spring on you at an unexpected moment, one who's very involvement in the schemes you're up against could inspire you to heretofore unseen levels of competence and fervor just because you know that when *that guy* is involved you need to kick things up a notch.

Ultimately, I'm not looking for options that'll "give me X to my Y rolls in combat" or "boost my Z so that I never fail a Q check". I'm pretty much just looking for ways to be Bruce Wayne instead of ways to be Batman, or ways to be Launchpad McQuack instead of the Dread Pirate Roberts.



I've been thinking of playing an npc class with 2 levels for each PC level everyone else has. It might be interesting. A warrior with this rule gets +2 bab per level, 9+con hp, and a feat. That's pretty reasonable, and the CRs should work out.

That's sort of what I'm doing. One or two levels of Aristocrat, followed by a few other levels in more functional classes since, apparently, the changes to Cleric made my original character idea impossible.



You can be a princess with a trait. Noble Scion (the feat) makes you a noble or at least of noble descent. Noble Scion (the PRC) is full fledged nobility with two descent perks, but otherwise is pretty garbage.

Thanks, I hadn't known about that one (either the feat or the class). As much as I like the idea of that feat, though, it doesn't really look like it helps out over time in any way. I'm also not specifically looking for ways to be nobility, that's just a really easy example of the kind of thing I want. Scrooge McDuck or Bruce Wayne might see a problem and be able to "provide" a solution for a team through unstated amounts of cash expenditures or by pulling some strings at the Wayne Foundation, for instance. It's harder to quantify what that might look like for other kinds of characters; a former soldier might say "Well, it's a shame we've crashed here... but you know, my platoon was stationed here years ago, I think if we head north for a few hours there's a village with a great tavern that we used to go to. Let's head that way, see if my buddy Jerry the Gnome's still around, he'll help us out for sure."

And, yes, this isn't exactly the kind of perk that D&D or Pathfinder normally offers, but between things like the buddies offered through Contact feats or the implied political clout you get with Dragonmarks they tend to show up here and there. My hope is that I'll find some that can scale as I level (or work in conjunction with other things that scale as I level) for this particular game.

[meschlum]

You might consider templates - there are some that give things as you gain hit dice.

Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial are traditional, granting a new daily spell use every 2 hit dice or so.

Fey is fairly awesome, with daily spells every 2 hit dice and new special abilities every 4 hit dice.

Various types of Mutants have extra abilities as their hit dice increase (every 4-5 hit dice, usually).

Technically, Class Simple templates (or variant multiclassing) could qualify.

The different planar denizens (Axiomatic, Celestial, Dark, etc.) have very minor boosts as their hit dice rise.

Nightmare creatures have a major power up at 11 hit dice, and work well if you have illusion magic or need Charisma to begin with.


There are others too, of course. The issue is the tradeoff between more templates and the hit dice to power them. Technically, a Consuming creature gains power as it levels, by gaining the powers of its foes...

[The Vagabond]

What changes to cleric made it impossible for you carry the concept to exist? Just curious.

As for classes, sorcerer is a very solid class, a human sorcerer with the imperial or maestro bloodline is very solid for nobility.

Following that, the Noble Scion class is very fit for a noble- if you're playing a sorcerer, see if you can convince the DM to grant casting progression to it.

As for feats, I am afraid I am left uncertain. But that's what I have on the subject of nobility.

If there's downtimr, just buy a bunch of animals, use Handle animal to train them, and sick a herd of hunting dogs on your enemies.

[Sayt]

There's also the option of PF Cavalier. It's a relatively simple martial class, and it's a Knight. Knights are part of the aristocracy. Cavaliers are aristocrats.

[Afgncaap5]

You might consider templates - there are some that give things as you gain hit dice.
...

There are others too, of course. The issue is the tradeoff between more templates and the hit dice to power them. Technically, a Consuming creature gains power as it levels, by gaining the powers of its foes...

Ooh... yes... I hadn't considered templates... there's a lot to work with there. Thanks!



What changes to cleric made it impossible for you carry the concept to exist? Just curious.

Well, impossible might be a bit strong for me to say.

Basically, I wanted to be a lizardman cleric who was devoted to the spiritual personification of a volcano on his home island. I wanted the Fire and Earth or Water (hadn't decided between those two) exclusively so that I could get the domain power that allowed me to rebuke elementals of the chosen domains and turn elementals of the opposing domains. Generally not a regular occurence in adventuring, but cool when it comes up.

Unfortunately, the changes from turn checks to energy channeling, and the changes to how the Fire and Earth/Water domains work make this basically impossible. The closest I can really get is spending a single feat for every kind of Elemental I want to be able to affect... and if memory serves, it's just healing or harming them rather than actually commanding or turning them. (And if I'm wrong about this, please, please let me know.)