Charge + Pounce Confusion

[proselus]

Hello all,

So I have major issues with understanding the rules surrounding charges and pounces, for a particular character build. They started simple in my mind, but as I kept thinking, more questions popped up. My google-fu has yielded no help, so I thought I'd ask here.

1. Charging says you must go to the closest space from which you can attack your opponent. I assume that means closest for you, but what if you have reach?
2. Pounce just says you get a full attack after a charge, can i attack multiple targets? If so, do the secondary and tertiary targets still count as "charges"? i.e. will valorous still double the attack, leap attack still function, etc.
3. If multiple targets are allowed, does the charge "closest space" requirement change? If 2 foes are close enough to hit if I'm in the right square, but can I charge to that square if its further than a square that would enable me to hit one of the opponents, or can I choose to charge to the square that is closest for all targets I want to attack?

Now Dungeon Crasher, Shock Trooper, Knockback, and Improved Trip get mixed in

4. If I bounce a guy into another guy, and I trip them both, and they are still within range, can I get my bonus attack against each of them?
5. If yes, are those attacks still "charges"?

Now bloodstorm blade to really mess with my head. I've got Far Shot and those gloves that boost thrown range, so 40ft range increment.

6. Throwing rules says 40 ft range increment means I can huck this hammer 200ft (albeit with penalties). Does that mean I have to stop my charging 200ft away, since that is the "closest square"?
7. Can I even charge if I'm closer than that? Say within the 40ft so I don't have penalties?
8. With that range, does that mean my iteritaves (that may count as charges, depending on answer to question 2) can wail on and potentially do all my crazy knockback stuff on anyone within 200ft?
9. Suppose I throw a javelin instead. Does it get penalized for being a "ranged weapon" that I'm now treating as a melee, even though its at ranged? Can it do all the stuff I do with my hammer on a charge?

These questions are just melting my head. And before someone says Ask your DM, I know, that's next, but he likes to see rules and opinions first, so asking the Playground will help me gather rules I've missed and get opinions and arguments I can say to convince him of what I want.

[Necroticplague]

Hello all,

So I have major issues with understanding the rules surrounding charges and pounces, for a particular character build. They started simple in my mind, but as I kept thinking, more questions popped up. My google-fu has yielded no help, so I thought I'd ask here.

1. Charging says you must go to the closest space from which you can attack your opponent. I assume that means closest for you, but what if you have reach?
2. Pounce just says you get a full attack after a charge, can i attack multiple targets? If so, do the secondary and tertiary targets still count as "charges"? i.e. will valorous still double the attack, leap attack still function, etc.
3. If multiple targets are allowed, does the charge "closest space" requirement change? If 2 foes are close enough to hit if I'm in the right square, but can I charge to that square if its further than a square that would enable me to hit one of the opponents, or can I choose to charge to the square that is closest for all targets I want to attack?

Now Dungeon Crasher, Shock Trooper, Knockback, and Improved Trip get mixed in

4. If I bounce a guy into another guy, and I trip them both, and they are still within range, can I get my bonus attack against each of them?
5. If yes, are those attacks still "charges"?

Now bloodstorm blade to really mess with my head. I've got Far Shot and those gloves that boost thrown range, so 40ft range increment.

6. Throwing rules says 40 ft range increment means I can huck this hammer 200ft (albeit with penalties). Does that mean I have to stop my charging 200ft away, since that is the "closest square"?
7. Can I even charge if I'm closer than that? Say within the 40ft so I don't have penalties?
8. With that range, does that mean my iteritaves (that may count as charges, depending on answer to question 2) can wail on and potentially do all my crazy knockback stuff on anyone within 200ft?
9. Suppose I throw a javelin instead. Does it get penalized for being a "ranged weapon" that I'm now treating as a melee, even though its at ranged? Can it do all the stuff I do with my hammer on a charge?

These questions are just melting my head. And before someone says Ask your DM, I know, that's next, but he likes to see rules and opinions first, so asking the Playground will help me gather rules I've missed and get opinions and arguments I can say to convince him of what I want.

1. If you have reach, you stop as soon as you're able to attack, and then attack from there.
2.Yes.
3.You target one enemy with the charge itself, and the full-attack is targeted separately.
4.No. Improved Trip states
If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt. . However, in this case, you didn't use your attack for a trip attempt (because it was free, as per Domino Rush), so that doesn't work.
5.N/A

[LTwerewolf]

1. Closest point to your original position. A better way to word it is you must take the shortest route and attack as soon as you are able to.
2/3. You can attack multiple targets, like a normal full attack. This will be harder to pull off though, because they would have to be a valid charge target (else you're not charging, therefore not triggering pounce) under the charge rules. This means they would need to be equidistant from your starting position and be within reach during your charge.

4. You have to push people into walls and objects, not other creatures. Dungeon crasher doesn't apply so the damage from dungeoncrasher doesn't apply. Tripping them also doesn't trigger the extra damage from dungeon crasher, so dungeon crasher here doesn't mean anything. With shock trooper's domino rush, you make trip attempts, and according to improved trip, you get a melee attack against them. It's not an attack of opportunity, so it implies there's no limit. You however didn't use your original attack as a trip attempt, so because of you using the combat maneuvers you're not getting any extra attack here.

5. No, those attacks are not charges. They're free single melee attacks specifically.

6. If you're talking about the first ability, it can't be used as part of a charge unless you have the hurling charge feat, in which case you still need to close the gap between you and them and finish the charge with a melee strike. If you're throwing thunderous throw into the mix (buh dum tish), it gets more muddy, because there were never any direct rules written about it. If your dm rules that with thunderous throw that you can charge, they'll either need to set it at maximum range (200 feet) or minimum range (40 feet). Until you get lightning ricochet, you'll still only be able to make a single attack on that charge.

7. No.
8. Strictly speaking, yes. Expect books throw at you, banhammer, nerf bat, whatever you want to call it if it's a low to mid op game.
9. Javelins take a -4 for being used in melee, so technically speaking it's much weaker than using a regular melee weapon for these purposes as soon as you get thunderous throw.