Arcane Trickster Recommended Spells

[ruy343]

Howdy folks,

we've got a player in my group who's fairly new to D&D, and is planning to take the Arcane Trickster archetype at level 3. What spells would you recommend he take?

EDIT: I'm DMing Curse of Strahd, and I consider myself a middle-of-the-road DM, where a rogue could get away with illusions, RAI.

So far, he's a dual-wielding melee-er

[Specter]

Disguise Self is pretty much mandatory, unless the campaign involvrs no social/urban challenges. Srsly, it lets you get away with a lot of stuff.

Charm Person is solid for when skills fail, but follows the same rule above.

The third all-school spell is wide open. I like Fog Cloud as a panic button/stealth provider, along with the Ninja style.

The most important thing is to take spells that don't get obsolete after some levels.

[Sir cryosin]

Is he melee or range fighting?

[R.Shackleford]

Howdy folks,

we've got a player in my group who's fairly new to D&D, and is planning to take the Arcane Trickster archetype at level 3. What spells would you recommend he take?

Are you the DM and do you/the DM play by RAW, RAI, or Rule of Cool?

[DivisibleByZero]

I'm a big fan of Silent Image and Shield as two of my 1st level spells.

[ruy343]

Are you the DM and do you/the DM play by RAW, RAI, or Rule of Cool?

I am indeed the DM (Edited first post to reflect that), and I play largely RAI, with the understanding that there are situations where a silent image likely won't matter. Lt me provide an example of what I wouldn't allow vs. what I would allow:

The rogue casts a silent image of another combatant in the middle of a fight. The player would ask whether the image could count to grant him sneak attack, because the creature believes that it's part of combat unless he performs an action to investigate it (RAW). In that circumstance, I wouldn't allow it to work (or maybe I'd allow it to work for one round, tops, depending on roleplaying.

Similarly, in combat, if the player says that he makes it appear like rocks are falling, in hopes of getting the enemy to retreat, I would ask the character to make an Intelligence (Deception) check to combine their magic ability and their ability to act convinced that the ceiling is going to collapse (covering their face, cowering, etc. to make the other creature believe that it's real).

Conversely, if he were to cast a silent image of a pit that opens behind himself while being pursued by guards, they might all stop at the pit, take an action to inspect (because it's at least plausible), and then continue moving after their action (essentially preventing them from dashing).

Does that make sense? I try to let players use illusions as long as they don't give you an effect more powerful than spells of an equivalent level, and as long as they are restricted in what they can and cannot do per the spell's text. I shy away from "Rule of Cool" because otherwise, illusions are too powerful and "unrealistic", in my opinion.

[Klorox]

Green flame blade (crowd control) and/or booming blade (get in, hit, get out: you either lock an enemy in one spot or hurt him if he chases you). OMG, so good on rogues.

[the secret fire]

Green flame blade (crowd control) and/or booming blade (get in, hit, get out: you either lock an enemy in one spot or hurt him if he chases you). OMG, so good on rogues.

Yes, booming blade is great on a rogue, who is stuck at one attack, anyway, so loses nothing by casting a cantrip.

The problem with Shield is that you need War Caster to do it in melee. It's questionable if the AT really wants to drop a feat on WC. Silent Image and Fog Cloud seem like the best choices among the 1st level spells for the AT. Third choice has a lot of options, but Disguise Self is probably the most sensible in standard campaigns.

[djreynolds]

Do not fuss around, you will need to be level 8 before you select a new spell, other than enchantment and illusion.

So grab a level of wizard and get some utility spells out of it.

Stuff like the shield spell and protection from evil in CoS, could be life saving.

1 level will do wonders.

[the secret fire]

Do not fuss around, you will need to be level 8 before you select a new spell, other than enchantment and illusion.

The Arcane Trickster gets a single Wizard spell from any school at 3rd level (and another one at 8th level), hence the recommendations for Fog Cloud, Shield, etc.

[djreynolds]

The Arcane Trickster gets a single Wizard spell from any school at 3rd level (and another one at 8th level), hence the recommendations for Fog Cloud, Shield, etc.

No his first spells must come from enchantment or illusion.

At 8th level he can get a spell from another school.

Until then, all new spells are enchantment or illusion.

A level of wizard would get him 6 1st level spells, and earlier than 8th level.

Trust me, its what I did when someone recommended it to me.

So when playing you would prepare say 4 spells from your wizard book, saying you have a 16 intelligence, +3, plus 1 level of wizard.

And then you have your known spells from arcane trickster

[Sir cryosin]

No his first spells must come from enchantment or illusion.

At 8th level he can get a spell from another school.

Until then, all new spells are enchantment or illusion.

A level of wizard would get him 6 1st level spells, and earlier than 8th level.

Trust me, its what I did when someone recommended it to me.

So when playing you would prepare say 4 spells from your wizard book, saying you have a 16 intelligence, +3, plus 1 level of wizard.

And then you have your known spells from arcane trickster

I'm pretty sure you get 2 spells from illusion or enchantment then 1 from any. I played a AT and I had 1 spell not from illusion or enchantment. Sorry I'm afb so I can't confirm it.

[tieren]

I'm pretty sure you get 2 spells from illusion or enchantment then 1 from any. I played a AT and I had 1 spell not from illusion or enchantment. Sorry I'm afb so I can't confirm it.

You are correct you start with 3 first level wizard spells, two of which must come from enchantment or illusion.

Wizard dip may still be a really good option.

[the secret fire]

No his first spells must come from enchantment or illusion.

At 8th level he can get a spell from another school.

Until then, all new spells are enchantment or illusion.

A level of wizard would get him 6 1st level spells, and earlier than 8th level.

Trust me, its what I did when someone recommended it to me.

You're making it extremely difficult not to be snarky here. I'll just quote the relevant section of the PHB and leave it at that.


Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. You know three 1st-level wizard spells of your choice, two of which you must choose from the enchantment and illusion spells on the wizard spell list.

[DivisibleByZero]

So grab a level of wizard and get some utility spells out of it.

1 level will do wonders.

2 as an elven bladesinger is even better...
6 nets you extra attack.
7 gets you 4th level spells a lot earlier and he still has 7d6 sneak attack.

An elven 13 arcane trickster rogue / 7 bladesinger wizard is a beast of a trickster.

[Specter]

Shield's problem is not only somatic components, but also the fact that it competes with Uncanny Dodge for reaction.

[R.Shackleford]

Shield's problem is not only somatic components, but also the fact that it competes with Uncanny Dodge for reaction.

With both you are in a win win situation.

You use shield if it would cause the attack to miss. You use Uncanny Dodge if shield doesn't help.

[Specter]

With both you are in a win win situation.

You use shield if it would cause the attack to miss. You use Uncanny Dodge if shield doesn't help.

True. But taking a feat or avoiding two weapons because of it? I wouldn't.

[R.Shackleford]

True. But taking a feat or avoiding two weapons because of it? I wouldn't.

As an arcane trickster you don't need a feat to get shield.

Also sword n board is the way to go with rogues.

[Specter]

As an arcane trickster you don't need a feat to get shield.

Also sword n board is the way to go with rogues.

I meant War Caster. With two hands full, you can't cast spells with S components, unless you have that feat. Even if the AT gets a shield proficiency from multiclass, that's still a busy hand.

[R.Shackleford]

I meant War Caster. With two hands full, you can't cast spells with S components, unless you have that feat. Even if the AT gets a shield proficiency from multiclass, that's still a busy hand.

Why would you not be using daggers? Draw + attack + drop (free) (or better yet you threw the dagger).

I should have said dagger and Board.

Rogue doesn't care much for base weapon damage dice.

The shield takes one hand and you should never have your other hand busy... But I play rogues quite a bit lol

[DivisibleByZero]

I meant War Caster. With two hands full, you can't cast spells with S components, unless you have that feat. Even if the AT gets a shield proficiency from multiclass, that's still a busy hand.

Use SCAG cantrips and cunning action. Not every rogue wants to dual wield, and tricksters have a very good reason not to.
You can always draw a second weapon and TWF if you don't want to use CA or a cantrip.

[Specter]

Why would you not be using daggers? Draw + attack + drop (free) (or better yet you threw the dagger).

I should have said dagger and Board.

Rogue doesn't care much for base weapon damage dice.

The shield takes one hand and you should never have your other hand busy... But I play rogues quite a bit lol

Assuming Shield is the spell, that means having only one chance to land SA damage. You don't want that in Bounded Accuracy. Assuming shield is the item, where are you getting that proficiency from?


Use SCAG cantrips and cunning action. Not every rogue wants to dual wield, and tricksters have a very good reason not to.
You can always draw a second weapon and TWF if you don't want to use CA or a cantrip.

Yep, but Shield is a reaction, so you can't drop your weapon AND use it. SCAG cantrips have nothing to do with this matter.

[the secret fire]

Yep, but Shield is a reaction, so you can't drop your weapon AND use it. SCAG cantrips have nothing to do with this matter.

Yeah...RAW, I don't believe free actions such as dropping a weapon can be taken on another character's turn like reactions. From the PHB pg. 190:


You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.

[djreynolds]

You don't have to select the shield spell, I just like the wizard dip as it gives you some good utility spells you might need when committing larceny.

I like the arcane trickster, I played a mountain dwarf and went strength with 2 daggers. It is a great archetype. Blur and mirror image are fantastic, levitate and feather fall are good to have.

But some wizard will open things up in terms of spell selection, and help out with buffing up the 1/3 caster level.

I think a question is how much intelligence to you want to commit to your character otherwise its lot of self-buffing.

Are you enchanting the guards with charm, or are sneaking past them? Is you magic used to enhance your stealth or supplement it?

War caster has one very good aspect to it... allowing an AoO with a spell, which can be a cantrip such as green flame blade or booming blade and since the attack is a reaction based on your opponent's turn you could add, if you have a friend with in 5feet, some sneak attack damage with the BB or GFB.

Its why rogue's like sentinel, its another opportunity to sneak attack.

I find AT fall into combat orientated or larceny orientated.

[the secret fire]

Why would you not be using daggers? Draw + attack + drop (free) (or better yet you threw the dagger).

I should have said dagger and Board.

Rogue doesn't care much for base weapon damage dice.

The shield takes one hand and you should never have your other hand busy... But I play rogues quite a bit lol

So you're just dropping daggers everywhere, then? You realize that an enemy in melee can also use its free "interact with an object" action to kick the dagger away from you, right? How many daggers do you carry? You could very well burn through one for every round of melee combat you enter.

You would also inevitably leave your weapon behind if you for some reason move on your reaction (eg. casting Misty Escape). There are some fairly serious downsides to not simply buying the appropriate feat here, and as a DM, I would feel compelled to exploit them.