Advancing a Dog (What CRs = What character levels?)

[Glarnog]

I've been playing in a zero level character funnel. 4 players with 3 zero level characters. Stats brutally straight rolled 3 dice. Profession and the like also, using customized tables from the Dungeon Crawl Classics from Goodman Games. I had a shepherded briefly, his dog how ever has been a stand out. So after a death toll of 66% or so for the party the dog is still kicking and out lasted his master by quite a bit. My DM said to level him. We've been using the mastiff stats from the PH. I told him unlike 3rd, which we have the most experience with, there aren't really rules for doing so. After some thought and looking at CRs I suggested we use the wolf stats? Which is one step higher CR. It was a quick fix he liked.

We're playing again tonight. I just want to give him some fair advice, which is what I'm looking for. Also going forward if there is any chance he advances more "levels". Thinking maybe re fluffing non canines for progression too.

So approx. mastiff 1/8 cr = 0 level character?, wolf 1/4 = 1st?, warg 1/2 = 2nd? Hell hound / winter wolf cr 3 = 8th?

Thanks

[gfishfunk]

Hmmm, I would ask Ninja_Prawn below. And avoid referring to this post ever, ever again.

[Ninja_Prawn]

CR 7 is actually higher than a level 20 character, since it is +7 proficiency and 20 maxes out at +6.

Um... CR 7 has a +3 proficiency bonus. CR 21 is +7, per page 8 of the MM.

Anyway, there are a few ways you could go about this, depending on whether you want the dog to keep pace with the PCs, what abilities and features you want it to gain, etc. I'd be tempted to just add 1 hit die per doggy level, adjust its prof. bonus based on doggy level, give it multiattack at level 5, maybe ASIs every 4 levels... that sort of thing. It won't be nearly as strong as a PC of equivalent level, but there will be a sense of 'advancement'.

[Kurt Kurageous]

At some point, I'd give the dog the ability to charm person. My dogs have that ability now.

[Waffle_Iron]

At some point, I'd give the dog the ability to charm person. My dogs have that ability now.

So true.

Regarding the OP's question, I think most of the traditionally "playable" monster races, such as orcs and hobgoblin and such are 1/4 challenge.

I'd say if you had mastiff stats and took fighter champion levels, it would be pretty fair mechanically.

[Mr.Moron]

I would make it psuedo PC. Make the dogs level always equal to the parties average level. It'd use these stats:

STR: 14
DEX: 15
CON: 13
INT: 3
WIS: 13
CHA: 8
(This is +1 over the standard mastiff, kind like it picked up the human racial bonus. Nice and plain)

Dog Class:

Hit Die: d8
Skills: Insight & Perception
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Armor Prof: All Barding
Weapons: Bite

Ability Score Increases: Non-fighter rate
Extra Attack: Gained once, at 5th HD/Level.

Improved Bite: +1d6 to bite damage at 11th level and 17th levels.
Animal Training: At the DMs discretion instead of increasing an ability score the Dog may either gain a feat or one ability from a PHB animal such as the Mule's "Sure-Footed".

Keen Hearing & Smell: As mastiff
Bite Knockdown: The DC is strength based using the usual formula (8 + STR + prof bonus).


This constantly keeps the dog pretty relevant, without having to do a bunch of weird interfacing with the monster manual. He's nowhere near as strong as a real PC since he lacks for bells and whistles but his scaling keeps his health pool and basic damage acceptable.

[MrStabby]

It may depend on how much freedom you want.

For a lot of classes you can just level him as a PC. Minor adjustment to allow attacks/proficiency with natural weapons or whatever they are called now.

Take a barbarian for example. You can give the dog rage, wolf totem, all of the awareness and initiative bonuses etc. without it feeling out of place - just the base class is a dog not a person.

The starting stats for a mastiff are not so far off a PC that you couldn't still have a fun game like this.



Fighter, or even rogue can work well for this.

Unless you want a doggy cleric worshipping a doggy god I am not sure that casters will work so well.

[JeffreyGator]

Is the dog a character in its own right or an extension of another character?

For animal companions, I would hesitate to ever make them stronger than a beast-master ranger companions leveling. (Arguably the beast-druid's companion from DMGVault and unearthed arcana)

Champion levels and such are better than the beast master.

[Glarnog]

He was a hold over from long dead character who as a randomly determined "profession" of Sheppard came with a dog. I think now that he's "leveled" up, he's going to be come a semi pc. I'll be playing tonight so hopefully I'll get some more DM input. Another player got luck with a gong farmer and came with a bag of night soil for fertilizer. :)

Thanks for the great ideas. I'll show them to the DM. I try to help make as fair and informed decision as I can get help to do.

Thanks

[Kurt Kurageous]

You know, I'd like to add an obvious thought here.

1. Make it a quest to find a druid/bard to cast Awaken on the dog, then you have an IQ of 10 and a semi-pc.

2. Name him "Brian."

3. Roll up a hydrocephalic gnome and name him "Stewie."

[mgshamster]

As a rough guide, I've been using CR = Level - 4 for my 2e to 5e conversions. Plus or minus some.

[Temperjoke]

You could follow the rules for a Beastmaster Ranger companion, where it's based off the ranger's stats? Then just determine what the stats for a standard Ranger at that level would be. Then it wouldn't be overpowered, but would be stronger than a regular Mastiff. You could also switch the stat block with a Dire Wolf or Worg.