Origin of Tristalt

[Morcleon]

As many of you know, the gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) rules are a variant system that allows two classes to be mashed together to form one more powerful class at each level. However, tristalt and higher level versions have also been making their appearance, although more rarely than the original. The origin of the word tristalt is simply the removal of the first syllable of gestalt and adding the stem "tri-" to the front. However, the origin of the concept and the person who first used it is something that I have not been able to discover.

Does anyone else have clues to help solve this mystery?

[AvatarVecna]

As many of you know, the gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) rules are a variant system that allows two classes to be mashed together to form one more powerful class at each level. However, tristalt and higher level versions have also been making their appearance, although more rarely than the original. The origin of the word tristalt is simply the removal of the first syllable of gestalt and adding the stem "tri-" to the front. However, the origin of the concept and the person who first used it is something that I have not been able to discover.

Does anyone else have clues to help solve this mystery?

I imagine the first game of tristalt started something like this:

"Wow! These awesome gestalt rules let you basically tack on an extra classes features, using the better HD, skills, BAB, and Save progression from each class! This'll let us build more esoteric and powerful characters than we normally could without requiring us to go epic! How could this possibly get even better?!"

"...what if we did it again?"

"Like, three classes, instead of two?"

"Yes."

"...my god, you're a genius!"

[Xuldarinar]

While I can follow the train of thought that allowed it to come into existence (if 2... why not 3?), I cannot say for certain the first to use Tristalt. Earliest mention i've found with a basic search was in May of 2011 but the person doesn't say much on it, so likely this isn't the first.

[eggynack]

Does it really need an origin? It feels like a really obvious and natural extension of the gestalt rules to me. It's like how you see a thread asking how you'd optimize a character with nothing but dips every few months. It's the kinda thing that people can come to independently. If you removed the arbitrary first person to come up with tristalt from existence, then someone else would have come up with it five minutes afterwards.

[Xuldarinar]

Eh.. Im doing this for the hell of it.

Nullistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 0 classes.
Unistalt: Standard play. Each level you gain 1 level in 1 class.

Gestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 2 classes.

Tristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 3 classes.
Quadristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 4 classes.
Quinquestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 5 classes.
Sexastalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 6 classes.
Septemstalt:Each level you gain 1 level in 7 classes.
Octostalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 8 classes.
Novemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 9 classes.
Decemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 10 classes.
Undecstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 11 classes.

Centistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 100 classes.

Millistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 1000 classes.

[Darrin]

The original term was "triple gestalt". It appears to have morphed into "tristalt" somewhere around 2011.

I did find a mention of "triple gestalt" in October 2009:

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?479728-Pathfinder-Multiple-E6-Gestalt

Here's something earlier, March 2005, about a year after UA was published. This is probably the origin of "triple gestalt", although as a concept you might say it goes back to the old 1E multiclassing rules.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?124769-Gestalt-AD-amp-D-Differing-XP-Totals

[ekarney]

Millistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 1000 classes.

"Whew, finally did it, I had to use every first party, third party and homebrew resource in existence but I finally did it. I took my first level. I'd say see you guys next week, but it took me 6 days to write all this down so I guess I'll see you all tomorrow"

[Inevitability]

Eh.. Im doing this for the hell of it.

Nullistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 0 classes.
Unistalt: Standard play. Each level you gain 1 level in 1 class.

Gestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 2 classes.

Tristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 3 classes.
Quadristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 4 classes.
Quinquestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 5 classes.
Sexastalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 6 classes.
Septemstalt:Each level you gain 1 level in 7 classes.
Octostalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 8 classes.
Novemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 9 classes.
Decemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 10 classes.
Undecstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 11 classes.

Centistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 100 classes.

Millistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 1000 classes.

History is being made here! Someone bookmark this post!

[Jormengand]

"Whew, finally did it, I had to use every first party, third party and homebrew resource in existence but I finally did it. I took my first level. I'd say see you guys next week, but it took me 6 days to write all this down so I guess I'll see you all tomorrow"

The sad part is, you could probably do it all with first-party stuff if you were allowed to stack variants and dig through Dragon Magazine.

[nedz]

"Whew, finally did it, I had to use every first party, third party and homebrew resource in existence but I finally did it. I took my first level. I'd say see you guys next week, but it took me 6 days to write all this down so I guess I'll see you all tomorrow"

Which leads us to Omnistalt - as many classes as you can be bothered to combine together.

Which leads to the next question: how many classes can you combine before adding any more is pointless ?

[Xuldarinar]

When does action economy become moot?

[Morcleon]

When does action economy become moot?

When you have three levels in psion for Synchronicity linked to Synchronicity and the Bestow Power recharge trick.

[AuraTwilight]

"Whew, finally did it, I had to use every first party, third party and homebrew resource in existence but I finally did it. I took my first level. I'd say see you guys next week, but it took me 6 days to write all this down so I guess I'll see you all tomorrow"

"Uh, that's great, Meta, but this campaign is starting at epic level, so um...you need...20 more...levels."

THE NEXT DAY

"Tragic suicide at the Myconid household this morning..."

[Endarire]

D&D 2E had multiclassing where one could be three classes at once.

And the omnistalt ceiling of likely usefulness is maybe 20 classes and almost certainly no more than 50. Once you have full BAB, all good saves, all skills as class, the relevant caster progressions (Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Bard/Psion), the relevant class features (Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader initiation, Wild Shape from Druid), any more seems pointless.

[Beheld]

If you do your accounting right, you can add enough alternative type casters together to get always on minute per level spells by setting like 5-10 of your classes on fire to do that and nothing else.

Then you can devote all your Wizard/Cleric/Druid slots to just murdering people.

[ekarney]

Which leads us to Omnistalt - as many classes as you can be bothered to combine together.

Which leads to the next question: how many classes can you combine before adding any more is pointless ?

I may not have an answer to that but if you will permit me, I believe I've come up with a sub-concept of the omnistalt.
Satistalt - as many classes combined together as required for the situation/campaign/game/encounter but to not be excessive
Nimiustalt - an arbitrary amount of classes that when combined end up being excessive, wasteful or redundant for the situation/campaign/game/encounter
Xstalt - A combination of classes where the amount of classes combined is irrelevant, generally for discussion purposes.

Example 1: In a Tristalt campaign consider a well build melee Tristalt party that contains a Fighter//CW Samurai//Warrior who would be the Nimiustalt, as opposed to say the Binder//Totemist//Barbarian.

Example 2: Your DM has told you that you're to be playing an E6 Xstalt campaign, your primary enemies will be unoptimized HD 1 goblins never presenting a CR of more than 1, who for whatever reasons are immune to any and all magic/psionic/psuedo-magical effects. So a gestalt of Barbarian//Fighter would be a Satistalt.


"Uh, that's great, Meta, but this campaign is starting at epic level, so um...you need...20 more...levels."

THE NEXT DAY

"Tragic suicide at the Myconid household this morning..."

Very accurate, I'm not good when it comes to overwhelming choice, I like the restrictions placed on me when optimizing. I start so stress when building semi-unique meat shields to throw at my players because of fighter bonus feats/ :smallbiggrin:

[Bullet06320]

the first time I recall hearing the term Tristalt was over a decade ago, a former roommate of mine, before he moved in used the term after we did a gestalt game, he wanted to try it. I believe he came up with the term on his own. its possible he found it online somewhere or at least independently thought of it way back then


Eh.. Im doing this for the hell of it.

Nullistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 0 classes.
Unistalt: Standard play. Each level you gain 1 level in 1 class.

Gestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 2 classes.

Tristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 3 classes.
Quadristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 4 classes.
Quinquestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 5 classes.
Sexastalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 6 classes.
Septemstalt:Each level you gain 1 level in 7 classes.
Octostalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 8 classes.
Novemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 9 classes.
Decemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 10 classes.
Undecstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 11 classes.

Centistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 100 classes.

Millistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 1000 classes.

nice, lol

[Necromancy]

Gestalt and tristalt trace their roots back to 2nd Ed multiclass rules, as for the names... Who cares

[Bad Wolf]

Eh.. Im doing this for the hell of it.

Nullistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 0 classes.
Unistalt: Standard play. Each level you gain 1 level in 1 class.

Gestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 2 classes.

Tristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 3 classes.
Quadristalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 4 classes.
Quinquestalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 5 classes.
Sexastalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 6 classes.
Septemstalt:Each level you gain 1 level in 7 classes.
Octostalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 8 classes.
Novemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 9 classes.
Decemstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 10 classes.
Undecstalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 11 classes.

Centistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 100 classes.

Millistalt: Each level you gain 1 level in 1000 classes.

So who's up for a Millistalt game? Kidding, of course. I think the most people could take should be 10 or 11, or less.