Can I use standard/move actions to trigger abilities that require swift/imediate?

[Arael666]

As per title, but let me give you an example:

Let's say I'm a wizard who selected abrupt jaunt ACF (I don't know if there is a restriction on the ability barring it from being used more than once per round, but for the sake of this example lets assume there isn't), can I teleport 3 times in the same round by using my swift, move and standard action to trigger the teleport each time? Logic tells me that I can, but I need RAW.

[rrwoods]

As per title, but let me give you an example:

Let's say I'm a wizard who selected abrupt jaunt ACF (I don't know if there is a restriction on the ability barring it from being used more than once per round, but for the sake of this example lets assume there isn't), can I teleport 3 times in the same round by using my swift, move and standard action to trigger the teleport each time? Logic tells me that I can, but I need RAW.

You can't. Swift actions aren't strictly "smaller than" a move or standard action from a rules perspective (even if they are from a narrative/flavor perspective). That's deliberate -- there's supposed to be pressure on your swift action.

EDIT: Also, if I remember right, Abrupt Jaunt is an immediate action. Immediate actions can't be taken during your turn, even though they use the same action resource as a swift.

[Anlashok]

You can't normally convert a move action to a swift action, but you can ready a swift action as a standard action.

[Arael666]

You can't. Swift actions aren't strictly "smaller than" a move or standard action from a rules perspective (even if they are from a narrative/flavor perspective). That's deliberate -- there's supposed to be pressure on your swift action.

EDIT: Also, if I remember right, Abrupt Jaunt is an immediate action. Immediate actions can't be taken during your turn, even though they use the same action resource as a swift.

Well, I don't think that's quite right, the SRD says otherwize at least:


Swift Actions

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. However, you can perform only a single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting or the activation of magic items; many characters (especially those who don't cast spells) never have an opportunity to take a swift action.


Immediate Actions

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

[Agincourt]

By RAW, you cannot.
"Swift Action
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn."
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm

Some DMs might let you trade in other actions to perform a swift action, but the rules clearly state you only get one per turn.

[Arael666]

Let me be a little clearer, If someone know the book in wich swift/imediate actions were first described, maybe the answer is there. The player handbook has a clause in wich it states
you can always take a move action in place of a standard action When this rules was written there were no swift/imediate actions, so there is no clause pertaining them. Is there a rule, errata, FAQ answer or article in wich this is addressed?

[Arael666]

By RAW, you cannot.
"Swift Action
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn."
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm

Some DMs might let you trade in other actions to perform a swift action, but the rules clearly state you only get one per turn.

Yes, this is what it seems to be I'm afraid, but that only covers what the SRD have. It just seems so logical to me, why shoudn't I be able to use a bigger time frame to perform an action that usually takes a fraction of that said timeframe? RAW can be infuriating sometimes

[eggynack]

There is, to my knowledge, no text in any source that allows you to turn anything into a swift or immediate action. Not without an ability, anyway. Probably a good thing, cause that kinda conversion could be pretty strong in some circumstances.

[Arael666]

There is, to my knowledge, no text in any source that allows you to turn anything into a swift or immediate action. Not without an ability, anyway. Probably a good thing, cause that kinda conversion could be pretty strong in some circumstances.

Exactly, thats why I'm looking for it :smallbiggrin:. It kinda forces you to become a RKV if you want to (ab)use it.

[Darrin]

Yes, this is what it seems to be I'm afraid, but that only covers what the SRD have. It just seems so logical to me, why shoudn't I be able to use a bigger time frame to perform an action that usually takes a fraction of that said timeframe?


Because swift actions are usually reserved for actions that should only happen once per round. In many cases, if you allow multiple swifts per round, you're just begging to break the game in some way that the designers didn't intend.



RAW can be infuriating sometimes

There are a couple work-arounds. As Anlashok pointed out, you can use a standard action to ready a swift action. So, on your turn you could:

Turn 1: Swift action.
Turn 1: Move action.
Turn 1: Standard action -> ready swift action, taken immediately after your turn ends.

Turn 1.5: Swift action.

Turn 2: Swift action.
Turn 2: Move action.
Turn 2: Standard action.

Since the readied action rules and the swift/immediate action rules were not written at the same time, there's a bit of a muddle about whether that swift taken outside your first turn counts as your swift for your second turn. As near as I can determine, by strict RAW I'd have to say it doesn't, as only "immediate" actions do that, and readying an action does not explicitly redefine it as an immediate action.

You can also use the Mobile Spellcasting feat to cast a second swift action spell during a round. This works for any spell that takes a standard action or less to cast, and that includes swift/immediate actions.

[Arael666]

Thank you very much, I didn't realize how usefull reading an action could be till you explained.