Improved Duplicity... Like Mirror Image???

[Fflewddur Fflam]

So I have a question about the Cleric Trickery Domain's ability "Invoke Duplicity" and "Improved Duplicity".

Invoke Duplicity creates an exact illusion of you that you can cast spells through and also get an advantage on your attacks if both you and your duplicate are within 5 feet of your target since it's "distracting" your target. All fine and good. But there's no indication in the description that your duplicate may distract or mislead an attacker who is trying to attack you. If he sees both you and your duplicate, is there a 50% chance that when he attacks you he actually targets your duplicate, thus causing you no damage?

There's no indication of this in the PHB, yet at 17th level, the Trickery cleric gets "Improved Duplicity" which allows you to create up to four duplicates of yourself. If all these duplicates could do is allow you to cast a spell through one of them or give you advantage when you and a duplicate are within 5 feet of your target.... then it wouldn't matter if there were 1 duplicate or 4, the effect would be the same.

The only way "Improved Duplicity" gives anything new or "improved" as a 17th level ability is if those 4 duplicates could be accidentally targeted by an attacker instead of you, similar to the spell Mirror Image (except the advantage over Mirror Image is that these illusions of you can't be destroyed). It's almost as if they forgot to explain this about the duplicate images, because otherwise "improved duplicity" really doesn't improve anything at all.

Thoughts?

[Giant2005]

I'm not sure such things need elaborated on. Regardless of what the abilities say, if the enemy doesn't know which target is real, then there is an equal chance of him assuming any one of them is real.
The difference between Improved Duplicity and Mirror Image is that somehow Mirror Image can still confuse your enemy even after the enemy has figured out which is real. Somehow Mirror Image shuffles things up so that whichever one was real during one turn may not be the real one during the next turn. Improved Duplicity doesn't do that part - if the enemy figured out which is the real version, then that version will always be the real one (and there would no longer be any chance of mistaking it for an illusion unless the Cleric did something else to re-confuse his enemy).

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I'm not sure such things need elaborated on. Regardless of what the abilities say, if the enemy doesn't know which target is real, then there is an equal chance of him assuming any one of them is real.

The difference between Improved Duplicity and Mirror Image is that somehow Mirror Image can still confuse your enemy even after the enemy has figured out which is real. Somehow Mirror Image shuffles things up so that whichever one was real during one turn may not be the real one during the next turn. Improved Duplicity doesn't do that part - if the enemy figured out which is the real version, then that version will always be the real one (and there would no longer be any chance of mistaking it for an illusion unless the Cleric did something else to re-confuse his enemy).

Technically speaking, you could do this same "shuffling up" with your duplicates since you can give any and all of them 30 feet movement from your bonus action, mixing them around with yourself to once again cause confusion with an attacker as to where the real you is.

[Giant2005]

Technically speaking, you could do this same "shuffling up" with your duplicates since you can give any and all of them 30 feet movement from your bonus action, mixing them around with yourself to once again cause confusion with an attacker as to where the real you is.

Yeah but I think it would be pretty unreasonable for your enemy to not be able to track where the genuine Cleric is moving to - unless you use a spell or something to obscure the area.
It would be like playing the Shell Game, but with each shell moving at a much lower relative speed. Sure it would be possible to screw up and not track the right shell, but I don't think it would be likely enough to warrant a roll.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Yeah but I think it would be pretty unreasonable for your enemy to not be able to track where the genuine Cleric is moving to - unless you use a spell or something to obscure the area.
It would be like playing the Shell Game, but with each shell moving at a much lower relative speed. Sure it would be possible to screw up and not track the right shell, but I don't think it would be likely enough to warrant a roll.

If this is the case, it goes back to my original question: Why have a 17th level ability produce a bunch of duplicate images that give you no real advantage over the one duplicate you got at 2nd level?

[Giant2005]

If this is the case, it goes back to my original question: Why have a 17th level ability produce a bunch of duplicate images that give you no real advantage over the one duplicate you got at 2nd level?

It is still useful.
Even while doing nothing but using that ability, the target only has a 20% chance of choosing the right target. Once it has elimited one option, it still only has a 25% chance, and then a 33% chance and eventually a 50% chance.
If you get unlucky on the first attack, then that is unfortunate, but still not useless. You can use spells like Blink (or even Mirror Image itself) to confuse the situation. If you Blink, the enemy would have to track all 5 targets instead of just the one that it knows is genuine in order to keep track of the genuine target (which is much more difficult), but can you imagine the chaos you could inspire with the Mirror Image spell?
Start off by having one of your duplicates cast Mirror Image (and give your enemy every reason to assume that the buff was cast on the actual caster), then start to cast the spell on yourself and other duplicates. Your enemy would only have a 5% chance of targeting the caster.
Although even then you are better off staying out of sight and letting your duplicates fight for you - I don't really see any strategic benefit to being out there among your duplicates.

[Zalabim]

Once you have multiple duplicates, aren't you in a position to cast a touch range spell from one duplicate while getting advantage from having a second duplicate in melee? I think their main use is as an illusion like major image rather than like mirror image though. It's not automatic, but they should be able to serve as distractions.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Once you have multiple duplicates, aren't you in a position to cast a touch range spell from one duplicate while getting advantage from having a second duplicate in melee? I think their main use is as an illusion like major image rather than like mirror image though. It's not automatic, but they should be able to serve as distractions.

Well, the advantage only comes from when you, the caster, and one of your duplicates are within 5 feet of a target. If you had two duplicates within 5 feet of a target and you were away from the target, that wouldn't give one of your duplicates advantage on a melee spell.

[Giant2005]

Well, the advantage only comes from when you, the caster, and one of your duplicates are within 5 feet of a target. If you had two duplicates within 5 feet of a target and you were away from the target, that wouldn't give one of your duplicates advantage on a melee spell.

It doesn't RAW, but it absolutely should and I don't think there are many DMs out there that would deny it. There is no practical difference between an enemy being unable to tell you and an illusion apart, and an enemy being unable to tell two illusions apart.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

It doesn't RAW, but it absolutely should and I don't think there are many DMs out there that would deny it. There is no practical difference between an enemy being unable to tell you and an illusion apart, and an enemy being unable to tell two illusions apart.

Well, I think this goes to my main point for creating this thread: there's a bit missing in the RAW for the mechanics and consequences of this ability.

[SharkForce]

if you're playing a shell game and the person has any chance to win at all, you're doing it wrong :P

the key is to keep the enemy guessing which one is the real you, when the correct answer is none of them. not a single one of the images they can see is you.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

if you're playing a shell game and the person has any chance to win at all, you're doing it wrong :P

the key is to keep the enemy guessing which one is the real you, when the correct answer is none of them. not a single one of the images they can see is you.

So keep out of harm's way with Greater Invisibility? That would work. A cleric doesn't have that spell, though. And basic invisibility isn't good enough because as soon as you cast a spell through your duplicate, you will appear.

[Giant2005]

So keep out of harm's way with Greater Invisibility? That would work. A cleric doesn't have that spell, though. And basic invisibility isn't good enough because as soon as you cast a spell through your duplicate, you will appear.

You don't need to get all magic about it - just hide.

[Specter]

I rule it to be like Mirror Image, unless the Cleric starts it in battle - in that case, the enemy could see it being created and not fall for it.

Having more duplicates of yourself is useful for using touch spells without getting in the heat of battle, or increasing their range. And don't forget you can use them to give your buddies half-cover against ranged attacks.