Elemental Annihilator as a dip

[Xuldarinar]

While Elemental Annihilator kineticists are not great in their own right, being comparable to fighters, I have to wonder how the archetype would work with only a few levels, either as a class to enter a PrC from or to simply take a few levels.


Is this archetype useful in this circumstance?
What sorts of builds would it be useful in?

[Kurald Galain]

Well, for a one-level dip you'd gain a regular weapon that deals damage based on constitution, but still calculates to hit based on strength (or dex, if ranged). That makes you MAD. For a second level, you'd gain the elemental defense and a bonus feat, which is decent.

Then at level six it becomes problematic, because a dipped annihilator doesn't benefit from iterative attacks, Haste, or rapid shot. So this doesn't strike me as such a great dip.

[Secret Wizard]

Just for the record, a properly built Fighter is a wrecking ball that can also function well out of combat. Do not underestimate them.

Elemental Annihilator is also pretty alright on its own right, but it sadly loses too many cool things to matter in my opinion. Kineticists are, in great part, about the utility.
Though a Fire Elemental Annihilator will do his job well.

[Xuldarinar]

Just for the record, a properly built Fighter is a wrecking ball that can also function well out of combat. Do not underestimate them.

Elemental Annihilator is also pretty alright on its own right, but it sadly loses too many cool things to matter in my opinion. Kineticists are, in great part, about the utility.
Though a Fire Elemental Annihilator will do his job well.

..A fire elemental annihilator can't do anything until they pick up a second element, and if they choose fire a second time, they still are useless.

Or perhaps, that was the point?

[Kurald Galain]

Elemental Annihilator is also pretty alright on its own right,

...which is why it gets mediocre to abysmal ratings in every guide I've seen so far :smallamused:

[Secret Wizard]

Because guide ratings matter? There are very few unusable archetypes, and guides just compete to pick the most optimal option at every junction, not in making a viable character.

[Secret Wizard]

..A fire elemental annihilator can't do anything until they pick up a second element, and if they choose fire a second time, they still are useless.

Or perhaps, that was the point?

What do you mean?

[Xuldarinar]

What do you mean?


At 1st level, an elemental annihilator can either shoot her kinetic blast at a target within 30 feet or make a single melee attack as if she were using kinetic blade as an attack action. For this attack, the elemental annihilator's base attack bonus from her kineticist levels is equal to her full kineticist level. A devastating infusion always deals an amount of damage equal to 1d8 + the elemental annihilator's Constitution modifier, regardless of the annihilator's class level or use of composite blasts. When making a melee attack with devastating infusion, the elemental annihilator doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, and if she uses two hands, the attack's damage is equal to 1d8 + 1-1/2 times her Constitution modifier. This is a 1st-level form infusion that costs 0 points of burn and can be used with any physical blast (but not energy blasts). Unlike with kinetic blade, the elemental annihilator can use Vital Strike with devastating infusion. The damage bonus from elemental overflow doesn't apply to devastating infusion's damage rolls.

This ability replaces the 1st-level infusion and the basic utility wild talent normally granted by selecting an element.

Fire Blast and Blue Fire Blast are both energy. Sure, the blast is just fine, but you tossed most of your class features to specialize in something the fire element cannot do.

[Secret Wizard]

Ah, missed that line. Thought it was identical in function than a Kinetic Blade. That makes it much less interesting.

[Kurald Galain]

guides just compete to pick the most optimal option at every junction, not in making a viable character.

You have that precisely backwards. Guides are about making a viable character, whereas theoretical optimization threads are about picking the most optimal at every junction.

My point is that the players who have the most experience with the kinny (as well as the OP) completely disagree with your out-of-the-blue statement that EA is "pretty alright". Most would call it pretty bad, as archetypes go, which is why the OP asks about dipping it instead of a full EA build.

[Secret Wizard]

I wasn't aware I had shared how much experience I had with the Kineticist with you?

[Kurald Galain]

I wasn't aware I had shared how much experience I had with the Kineticist with you?

Feel free to start a thread showing off your the fire annihilator you've clearly played before.


Though a Fire Elemental Annihilator will do his job well.


In the meantime, let's get back to EA as a dip. I suppose one could build something around Vital Strike, but it'd need quite a high point buy (or lucky rolls) to deal with the MAD issue.

[Secret Wizard]

I've played a melee Kineticist before, Earth. Had a ton of free feats so I got Heavy Armor and Power Attack. The character was resilient and powerful, though I could imagine having issues if I didn't have a Cleric to enchant my stuff with an alignment component to bypass alignment DR.

I figured Elemental Annihilator would be the same, but with more damage and less utility (didn't read the physical blast part).

Damage wasn't my forte but if it were amped up the way the archetype says it will, and with the possibility of TWF, I could see several working builds here.

[dude123nice]

I've played a melee Kineticist before, Earth. Had a ton of free feats so I got Heavy Armor and Power Attack. The character was resilient and powerful, though I could imagine having issues if I didn't have a Cleric to enchant my stuff with an alignment component to bypass alignment DR.

I figured Elemental Annihilator would be the same, but with more damage and less utility (didn't read the physical blast part).

Damage wasn't my forte but if it were amped up the way the archetype says it will, and with the possibility of TWF, I could see several working builds here.

So you admit that you just gave advice about an archetype you've never played? And you actually think that you understand said archetype better than people who made guides of who have actually played it? Nice!

[Xuldarinar]

What about an Elemental Annihilator/Warpriest?