Player handbook question

[Meierme176]

I am new to D&D and we play 3.5. I was wondering if this book will work D&D Player Handbook (https://smile.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Wizards/dp/0786965606/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1467599175&sr=8-4&keywords=d%26d+3.5+player%27s+handbook) or will I need the 3.5 specific?

[LTwerewolf]

If you're going to play 3.5, you need 3.5. They're very much not the same game.

[Meierme176]

If you're going to play 3.5, you need 3.5. They're very much not the same game.

oh ok, I didn't see it say a version so I wasn't sure. Is that for 5th edition or something?

[DrMotives]

oh ok, I didn't see it say a version so I wasn't sure. Is that for 5th edition or something?

Yes, that is the 5th edition PHB. The differences are huge, you really can't mix & match at all.

[Meierme176]

Yes, that is the 5th edition PHB. The differences are huge, you really can't mix & match at all.

Ok thank you, I am trying to get the book soon for the upcoming session. Prime now only has the 5th edition and all of my local shops only have pathfinder and 5th edition stuff.

[nyjastul69]

I am new to D&D and we play 3.5. I was wondering if this book will work D&D Player Handbook (https://smile.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Wizards/dp/0786965606/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1467599175&sr=8-4&keywords=d%26d+3.5+player%27s+handbook) or will I need the 3.5 specific?

The book you linked to is PH for 5e D&D. If you are joining 3.5 game getting a 3.5 PH is advisable. There is a handy online reference, the System Reference Document (http://www.d20srd.org). It contains most of the 3.5 rules and should suffice for most purposes.

[KillingAScarab]

I am new to D&D and we play 3.5. I was wondering if this book will work D&D Player Handbook (https://smile.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Wizards/dp/0786965606/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1467599175&sr=8-4&keywords=d%26d+3.5+player%27s+handbook) or will I need the 3.5 specific?


The book you linked to is PH for 5e D&D. If you are joining 3.5 game getting a 3.5 PH is advisable. There is a handy online reference, the System Reference Document (http://www.d20srd.org). It contains most of the 3.5 rules and should suffice for most purposes.While most of the rules for Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 are available online for free (I prefer The Hypertext d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) to Wizards' collection of RTFs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srdarchive)), if you must have a book at the table to reference (or you prefer it to a series of links), Wizards of the Coast did "Premium" reprints of the 3.5 Player's Handbook (https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-3-5-Players-Handbook/dp/0786962461), Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual which include the errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata). Those three books were the original "core," but WotC also put out premium versions of Spell Compendium (https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Dungeons-Dragons-Compendium-Accessory/dp/0786964480) and Magic Item Compendium (https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Dungeons-Dragons-Compendium-Accessory/dp/0786964499/). These last two collect many optional spells and magic items which had been added to the game in numerous other sources, but I think they may have some original bits, too. As someone who owns most of the "Complete" series (Complete Warrior, Complete Mage and so on) I felt it would have been redudant to purchase those, but they would probably be quite nice if you're completely new to the game.

To play the game, you'll only need the Player's Handbook (often abbreviated PHB) for the rules you will commonly look up. You might want to talk to your group about what other books they may have or want before looking into either the Spell Compendium or Magic Item Compendium. If someone else already owns the books, you're in a low-magic campaign setting or no one is playing a spellcaster then they might not be worth the investment.

[Meierme176]

Is the Players handbook II (https://smile.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Roleplaying/dp/0786939184/ref=pd_lutyp_cxhsh_1_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=517X1WFMPHL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_SL500_SR116%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=9C4YJZAVGTRWNHT6S4B2) worth getting? what does it contain?

[KillingAScarab]

Is the Players handbook II (https://smile.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Roleplaying/dp/0786939184/ref=pd_lutyp_cxhsh_1_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=517X1WFMPHL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_SL500_SR116%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=9C4YJZAVGTRWNHT6S4B2) worth getting? what does it contain?

Player's Handbook II has a lot of additional options, including four new character classes, but doesn't replace the original PHB if you don't have access to the main rules of the game. There are new spells, new magic items, new feats, alternate class features for character classes found in the PHB (and other books) and also some ideas for giving your character and party a bit more flavor. One of the more famous things the book introduced were the rules for retraining and rebuilding characters. To clarify that last bit, retraining is intended for a character you have built over multiple levels, but want to correct some mistakes like getting rid of a feat you no longer use. Rebuilding characters is more of a in-game narrative reason to let you play a character with the same name who then has different stats or class(es).

Again, I think it might be something you want to consult your group about first, but the four character classes PHB2 adds to the game might be enough to justify picking it up, perhaps even for just two of them. Beguiler and duskblade get mentioned quite a bit more here than dragon shaman or knight. Regarding the alternate class features, metamagic specialist is a superb ACF for sorcerer.

[Troacctid]

PHB2 contains a bunch of additional options and resources for player characters. You can read the table of contents and introduction here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=1)—should give you an idea of what to expect.

[MesiDoomstalker]

If your group is playing 3.5, in all likelyhood someone has a copy of 3.5's PHB somewhere in some form. Talk to your group and figure out who, and ask to borrow it. Most likely, they won't need it as much as you will. The reason I suggest this is that 3.5 books have been out of print for about a decade or so. Some books got reprintings a few years ago, but those printings are likely all gone as well. You'll end up paying out the nose for a copy at this point and it will likely be second hand. Easier and far cheaper to borrow a copy from your group.

[KillingAScarab]

If your group is playing 3.5, in all likelyhood someone has a copy of 3.5's PHB somewhere in some form. Talk to your group and figure out who, and ask to borrow it. Most likely, they won't need it as much as you will. The reason I suggest this is that 3.5 books have been out of print for about a decade or so. Some books got reprintings a few years ago, but those printings are likely all gone as well. You'll end up paying out the nose for a copy at this point and it will likely be second hand. Easier and far cheaper to borrow a copy from your group.Unless I am mistaken Wizards RPG Team on Amazon seems to actually be Wizards of the Coast. Premium PHB is new, "Only 20 left in stock (more on the way)" for 31.92 USD. To compare, the MSRP on my 3.5 PHB was 29.95; my 3.0 PHB's MSRP was 31.95. While I agree that you can share resources in a group (especially for optional books like the "Complete" or "Races of" series), if there are multiple new players it might not be feasible to wait for it to be passed around.

[LTwerewolf]

Can buy them on amazon for about $15 used. Not everything has to be brand new to be functional.

[KillingAScarab]

Can buy them on amazon for about $15 used. Not everything has to be brand new to be functional.Certainly. I was disputing the claim that the Premium books are out of print.

Meierme176 seemed concerned with speed over price, since Amazon Prime was mentioned. Any quick alternatives?Actually, the one I linked to earlier has the Prime check on the search results page.

[Meierme176]

If your group is playing 3.5, in all likelyhood someone has a copy of 3.5's PHB somewhere in some form. Talk to your group and figure out who, and ask to borrow it. Most likely, they won't need it as much as you will. The reason I suggest this is that 3.5 books have been out of print for about a decade or so. Some books got reprintings a few years ago, but those printings are likely all gone as well. You'll end up paying out the nose for a copy at this point and it will likely be second hand. Easier and far cheaper to borrow a copy from your group.

Thank you for the suggestion. There is a player who does but I'm one of the kinds of people who enjoy holding a physical book. I did however pick up a new one from amazon for $30.


Can buy them on amazon for about $15 used. Not everything has to be brand new to be functional.

I agree, I have however had bad experiences buying used from amazon so I went the new rout. It was twice as much but it will have the new book smell :smallbiggrin:


Meierme176 seemed concerned with speed over price, since Amazon Prime was mentioned. Any quick alternatives?Actually, the one I linked to earlier has the Prime check on the search results page.


You are correct in this matter as my session is this Friday. I was trying to have the book here and thoroughly bookmarked before the session. It looks like even with prime I wont get it until Wednesday at the earliest. I am a full time student (even during the summer) so I won't have a whole lot of time to go over it before hand.

Thank you all for your suggestions. As mentioned I have purchased the correct 3.5 print (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0786962461/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) via amazon prime (smile: I have to support the kids at ST. Jude's). If you guys would like to give a new player some advice I would be grateful. I am a couple months in to the campaign, but am still learning all the time.

[KillingAScarab]

You are correct in this matter as my session is this Friday. I was trying to have the book here and thoroughly bookmarked before the session. It looks like even with prime I wont get it until Wednesday at the earliest. I am a full time student (even during the summer) so I won't have a whole lot of time to go over it before hand.


If you guys would like to give a new player some advice I would be grateful. I am a couple months in to the campaign, but am still learning all the time.Well, there's the Simple Rules as Written (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460263-Simple-RAW-thread-for-3-5-31-By-now-your-question-has-probably-been-answered) thread to which you may post questions, but let's start with this question. What sort of game is this you will be playing in? You say the campaign is months old? Does it seem to be geared more towards combat or puzzles or role-playing?

[Meierme176]

Well, there's the Simple Rules as Written (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460263-Simple-RAW-thread-for-3-5-31-By-now-your-question-has-probably-been-answered) thread to which you may post questions, but let's start with this question. What sort of game is this you will be playing in? You say the campaign is months old? Does it seem to be geared more towards combat or puzzles or role-playing?

We are playing two campaigns simultaniously. One is a good campaign while the other is very much evil. We are sure that some time the two groups will meet and some deaths will occur. I like my evil campaign much more. I play as a lvl 9 elf rogue wiz (4/5). I know its an odd combo but it was my first character ever and had no idea what I was doing. I enjoy being a wizard but I also enjoy the stealth aspect of the rogue. I would like for this character to live but I have no idea where to take him in terms of prestige classes. How I play is I use my spells for buffing but my bow for damage. I have wings of flying which I use to their full extent staying away from everything.

[KillingAScarab]

We are playing two campaigns simultaniously. One is a good campaign while the other is very much evil. We are sure that some time the two groups will meet and some deaths will occur. I like my evil campaign much more. I play as a lvl 9 elf rogue wiz (4/5). I know its an odd combo but it was my first character ever and had no idea what I was doing. I enjoy being a wizard but I also enjoy the stealth aspect of the rogue. I would like for this character to live but I have no idea where to take him in terms of prestige classes. How I play is I use my spells for buffing but my bow for damage. I have wings of flying which I use to their full extent staying away from everything.You can probably do much worse for a first character. Here's a trick which I learned from Cayzle.com (http://www.cayzle.com/screeds/book011.html) you should be able to pull off if you ever need a sniper's nest. Leomund's Tiny Hut (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/tinyHut.htm) grants you total concealment, but you can attack through it.

I predict the main suggestion for a prestige class you receive will be unseen seer, but if your group doesn't have a copy of Complete Mage, there's arcane trickster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm). It grants fewer skill points than rogue levels, the prerequisites are a bit high and include an alignment restriction, but it still advances your spellcasting and sneak attack and lets you just make a certain number of attacks per day a sneak attack.

[Meierme176]

You can probably do much worse for a first character. Here's a trick which I learned from Cayzle.com (http://www.cayzle.com/screeds/book011.html) you should be able to pull off if you ever need a sniper's nest. Leomund's Tiny Hut (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/tinyHut.htm) grants you total concealment, but you can attack through it.

I predict the main suggestion for a prestige class you receive will be unseen seer, but if your group doesn't have a copy of Complete Mage, there's arcane trickster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm). It grants fewer skill points than rogue levels, the prerequisites are a bit high and include an alignment restriction, but it still advances your spellcasting and sneak attack and lets you just make a certain number of attacks per day a sneak attack.

lol I actually do use the tiny hut a lot. I didn't know that was a thing, I just thought it was clever. I really like the idea of the Unseen Seer except for the Divination Spell Power (Ex) part. I like using all of my spells and I dont want them weakened because of a class. If I could opt out of that part I think it would be a great idea. Whereas the arcane trickster seems very underwhelming.

[Eldariel]

lol I actually do use the tiny hut a lot. I didn't know that was a thing, I just thought it was clever. I really like the idea of the Unseen Seer except for the Divination Spell Power (Ex) part. I like using all of my spells and I dont want them weakened because of a class. If I could opt out of that part I think it would be a great idea. Whereas the arcane trickster seems very underwhelming.

You can pick the Practiced Spellcaster-feat (Complete Arcane) to make up for the caster level loss incurred by Divination Spell Power. If you could talk your DM into it, I would ask for a rebuild (PHB2 has suggestions for rebuild quests, though just allowing rebuilding behind the scenes with no game world implications is fine too) into Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 4 with Practiced Spellcaster as one of his feats (+4 is enough to cover for 1 Rogue-level + full Divination Spell Power).

[ExLibrisMortis]

You can pick the Practiced Spellcaster-feat (Complete Arcane) to make up for the caster level loss incurred by Divination Spell Power. If you could talk your DM into it, I would ask for a rebuild (PHB2 has suggestions for rebuild quests, though just allowing rebuilding behind the scenes with no game world implications is fine too) into Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 4 with Practiced Spellcaster as one of his feats (+4 is enough to cover for 1 Rogue-level + full Divination Spell Power).
This is a classic combo.

You can use scorching ray to get multiple sneak attacks with one spell. At higher levels, telekinesis allows you to get as many as fifteen sneak attacks in one spell.

[Troacctid]

This is a classic combo.

You can use scorching ray to get multiple sneak attacks with one spell. At higher levels, telekinesis allows you to get as many as fifteen sneak attacks in one spell.

Just one sneak attack, actually. According to the weaponlike spell rules, a given spell only deals sneak attack damage on its first attack each round.


Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells (including sneak attack damage), the extra damage applies only to the first attack, whether that attack hits or not.

For example, a 7th-level sorcerer/3rd-level rogue with Point Blank Shot makes a scorching ray attack at less than 30 feet (two rays, each requiring a ranged touch attack roll and dealing 4d6 points of fire damage). If the first ray hits, it deals 6d6+1 points of fire damage (4d6 normal + 2d6 sneak attack + 1 for Point Blank Shot), while each subsequent ray deals only 4d6 points of fire damage whether the first ray hits or not.

[KillingAScarab]

lol I actually do use the tiny hut a lot. I didn't know that was a thing, I just thought it was clever.It's clever to me, and there have been a few veterans who were surprised when I have mentioned it recently here.


Whereas the arcane trickster seems very underwhelming.A fair enough assessment, I just figured you're already splitting your levels between sneak attack and advancing your spellcasting. This at least does both, though you would miss out on wizard bonus feats.

Oh, and unlike 4th edition, the core prestige classes were placed in the Dungeon Master's Guide, and I don't believe the premium PHB would have them, either. That's another point in favor of d20srd.org, you don't have to read over the DM's shoulder for prestige classes.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Just one sneak attack, actually. According to the weaponlike spell rules, a given spell only deals sneak attack damage on its first attack each round.
Hm, right. It's a stupid rule*, but it's there. I suppose you'd have to houserule something, then.


*It pretty much blocks sneak attacking with magic, and why can't spells just use the regular rules for ranged attacks (the 'clarification' is completely unneeded)? This rule creates an artificial difference between - for example - telekinesis-thrown items and regular thrown items. I'd rather use the Rules Compendium's "you can only get multiple sneak attacks in a full-round action", as silly as that is.

[KillingAScarab]

It pretty much blocks sneak attacking with magic, and why can't spells just use the regular rules for ranged attacks (the 'clarification' is completely unneeded)? This rule creates an artificial difference between - for example - telekinesis-thrown items and regular thrown items. I'd rather use the Rules Compendium's "you can only get multiple sneak attacks in a full-round action", as silly as that is.It creates an equivalence, though. Page 42 of Rules Compendium specifically calls out scorching ray and the manyshot feat, both of which allow multiple attacks with less than a full-round action, and thus meaning that weapon-like spells act the same as weapons. Because, y'know, rays are like weapons. They do specify a quickened scorching ray, but I believe that's just to show that this also applies to swift actions.

And, no, it doesn't stop sneak attacks with magic.

[ExLibrisMortis]

It creates an equivalence, though. Page 42 of Rules Compendium specifically calls out scorching ray and the manyshot feat, both of which allow multiple attacks with less than a full-round action, and thus meaning that weapon-like spells act the same as weapons. Because, y'know, rays are like weapons. They do specify a quickened scorching ray, but I believe that's just to show that this also applies to swift actions.

And, no, it doesn't stop sneak attacks with magic.
I did mention the Rules Compendium, and no, the Complete Arcane rule does not create an equivalence. You get sneak attack once per attack roll, whether it is a spell, weapon, or other ability, and CA throws that out of the window, for no good reason, because apparently weaponlike spells are not like weapons.

Slightly confounding the issue, the Rules Compendium mentions an exception, saying that you can only get multiple sneak attacks if your multiple attack rolls originate from a full-round action. You may think that the CA rule is stating a similar thing (because spells require a standard action to cast, unless otherwise noted), but it is not. Spells can be full-round actions; under the RC rule, you can metamagic a scorching ray (as sorcerer) to get multiple sneak attacks, or use it as part of an ability like Battlecast (the Havoc Mage ability). The rule is very silly: you can get sneak attacks with a spell like cloud of knives, because it allows only one attack per action (a free action, but still an action), but not with the second scorching ray ray, because... I guess I don't have time to aim? But my free action can SA, so...? It makes no sense. Anyway, despite being silly, the RC rule still allows a workable sneak attack 'mailman', unlike the CA rule.

And yes, the CA rule "pretty much blocks" sneak attacks with magic, in the sense that it is harder to build a character who sneak attacks with spells as primary tactic (insofar it wasn't already hard to use SA properly, with all the immunities floating about). Sneak attack, as bonus damage, is not multiplied or increased in any way. If you invest in sneak attack, you want to capitalize on that, by making multiple attacks. With the CA rule, you're forced to cheese up some extra attacks (aforementioned cloud of knives/holy star (iirc) + Persistent Spell, choker form, celerity + favour of the martyr) or be content with one sneak attack per round, which will never keep up with monster hp.

I mean, you can't even voluntarily accept a full-round action casting time to get your sneak attacks, it's an outright ban for spells. You couldn't get multiple sneak attacks out of a spell with a ten-minute casting time (if the attacks happen on the same round), like the hypothetical assassin's preparation spell.

[Inevitability]

Oh, and unlike 4th edition, the core prestige classes were placed in the Dungeon Master's Guide, and I don't believe the premium PHB would have them, either. That's another point in favor of d20srd.org, you don't have to read over the DM's shoulder for prestige classes.

Note that the SRD doesn't have the Red Wizard prestige class where the DMG does, seeing it is product identity.

Then again, few sane DMs would allow Red Wizard anyway.

[Troacctid]

The Complete Arcane rule was reprinted in the Rules Compendium as well.

[Meierme176]

You can pick the Practiced Spellcaster-feat (Complete Arcane) to make up for the caster level loss incurred by Divination Spell Power.

Would I have to take that feat for every other school? I don't think I have that many feats left.


It's clever to me, and there have been a few veterans who were surprised when I have mentioned it recently here.

I am pretty new to the forum and haven't seen that. I was just reading some spells and thought it would work great as a nest. I also just took the make wand feat and use Blacklight for sneak attacks.


A fair enough assessment, I just figured you're already splitting your levels between sneak attack and advancing your spellcasting. This at least does both, though you would miss out on wizard bonus feats.

I agree, I do like that aspect but the only two things appealing are the fact it'll let me increase my caster level and Ranged legerdemain. other than that its equivalent to increasing my rogue without the massive still point increase. I am asking my DM if he would allow this variant of the Arcane Archer (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Arcane_Archer,_Variant_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)). It will allow me to increase my caster level and let me become very proficient with my bow.


Hm, right. It's a stupid rule*, but it's there. I suppose you'd have to houserule something, then.


*It pretty much blocks sneak attacking with magic, and why can't spells just use the regular rules for ranged attacks (the 'clarification' is completely unneeded)? This rule creates an artificial difference between - for example - telekinesis-thrown items and regular thrown items. I'd rather use the Rules Compendium's "you can only get multiple sneak attacks in a full-round action", as silly as that is.

I second that. I believe using a standard action to cast that many rays all at once would spread out so fast that everyone hit would be caught off guard and could easily be considered a sneak attack. Especially if used with the silent feat.

[Troacctid]

Would I have to take that feat for every other school? I don't think I have that many feats left.
Nope, it's per class, not per school. You only need to take it for "wizard."


I second that. I believe using a standard action to cast that many rays all at once would spread out so fast that everyone hit would be caught off guard and could easily be considered a sneak attack. Especially if used with the silent feat.
Keep in mind it's not just a rule for sneak attacks—it applies to any source of bonus damage on your spells, including Warmage Edge, Weapon Specialization, Knowledge Devotion, etc.

[Meierme176]

Nope, it's per class, not per school. You only need to take it for "wizard."

Oh wow, I might actually do that then. That makes the class actually worth it.


Keep in mind it's not just a rule for sneak attacks—it applies to any source of bonus damage on your spells, including Warmage Edge, Weapon Specialization, Knowledge Devotion, etc.

In that case I really think it is a stupid rule. Logically speaking if you are proficient in doing something, why would you only be able to do it only once every 6 seconds?

[KillingAScarab]

In that case I really think it is a stupid rule. Logically speaking if you are proficient in doing something, why would you only be able to do it only once every 6 seconds?when they that category of additional damage (sneak attack, skirmish and sudden strike) the name "precision damage" I think that captures the reasoning. That only the first strike is precise enough, which is why it isn't just the first attack which hits from manyshot which can have precision damage added, but the first attack or none. If the first attack misses, the remainder which were crammed into that standard action (or swift action) were not precise enough to qualify.

[Âmesang]

If you're going to play 3.5, you need 3.5. They're very much not the same game.
At the same time it's still feasible to borrow things from other editions. I'm currently playing a 5th Ed. dwarf cleric of Gorm Gulthyn using the War domain (which he had in 3rd Ed.).

I've also contemplated using 4th Ed.'s "astral diamonds" as a form of currency 'cause carrying around thousands of gold/platinum pieces in high-level games just seems silly (how long does it take the average shopkeeper to count 'em all?). Either that, or I could just use the Favors from the Epic Level Handbook.

[Meierme176]

when they that category of additional damage (sneak attack, skirmish and sudden strike) the name "precision damage" I think that captures the reasoning. That only the first strike is precise enough, which is why it isn't just the first attack which hits from manyshot which can have precision damage added, but the first attack or none. If the first attack misses, the remainder which were crammed into that standard action (or swift action) were not precise enough to qualify.

I mean still, logically speaking a person who is even lvl 15 Is supposed to be fairly renown for what they do. (taking the bow for example) you can just youtube people who can accurately let multiple arrows fly at the same time. 6 seconds is plenty of time to at minimum get one more person especially if you add in some sort of magic that doesn't even require you to roll to see if you hit (minus magic resistance).

[nyjastul69]

Oh wow, I might actually do that then. That makes the class actually worth it.



In that case I really think it is a stupid rule. Logically speaking if you are proficient in doing something, why would you only be able to do it only once every 6 seconds?

It's as logical as a fireball. Logic need not apply.

[Inevitability]

At the same time it's still feasible to borrow things from other editions. I'm currently playing a 5th Ed. dwarf cleric of Gorm Gulthyn using the War domain (which he had in 3rd Ed.).

Note that 5e has no restrictions in domains, merely suggested domains. You could play a Life cleric of Lolth, a Knowledge cleric of the Red Knight or a War cleric of Pelor, as long as you can justify it in-game.

[KillingAScarab]

I mean still, logically speaking a person who is even lvl 15 Is supposed to be fairly renown for what they do. (taking the bow for example) you can just youtube people who can accurately let multiple arrows fly at the same time. 6 seconds is plenty of time to at minimum get one more person especially if you add in some sort of magic that doesn't even require you to roll to see if you hit (minus magic resistance).


It's as logical as a fireball. Logic need not apply.Every rules system is going to have something it doesn't model well, past a certain point and especially when ground is ceded to accessibility, fairness or fun.

[TotallyNotEvil]

I suppose the crux of the matter is if a DM should allow a player multiple SAs with a spell. Seeing it's Rogue/Wizard, and considering thr aforementioned SA immunities, I don't think it's unbalanced or unreasonable. Having a rules-overriding DM is a core part of the game for situations just like this.

[Eldariel]

As Troaccid said, you only need Practiced Spellcaster once for your whole Wizard casting (including PRCs adding to said casting).


I agree, I do like that aspect but the only two things appealing are the fact it'll let me increase my caster level and Ranged legerdemain. other than that its equivalent to increasing my rogue without the massive still point increase. I am asking my DM if he would allow this variant of the Arcane Archer (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Arcane_Archer,_Variant_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)). It will allow me to increase my caster level and let me become very proficient with my bow.

Sadly that class is still poor: Greater Magic Weapon does its whole Enhance Arrows +5 with one level 3 spell slot and the other abilities are nigh' useless as once per day. You still löse 3 levels of casting for no good reason. Instead I recommend Unseen Seer and using spells like Hunter's Eye (learn through Advanced Learning) and Greater Magic Weapon to do great things.

You could even take Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine) in e.g. War-domain for a spell granting full BAB in Divine Power. Just take classes that grant full casting and good stuff, like Unseen Seer, and enjoy the life of magic.