Simple fix to spell slots?

[Zakier]

Alright fellow D&D lovers.

While we all know and love 3.5 despite its many concerns and/or issues. I think we all can agree the spells per day slots system is broken.

And I don't mean OP.

The tables for additional spell slots follow either no math at all or math yhatbis so complicated it makes my head hurt reading someone else's interpretation of it...

We know there are many other systems and homebrew styles or magic use.


I'm hoping we can apply a simple fix to this ourselves.

My current DM prefers the spells per day system as is but isn't too attached to try something else. We can go spell points or spells per day buy any homebrew needs to make sense mathematically.

If a spell points system there needs to be a smooth simple math Progression for points gain per level.

Something like an artificer has 160 points and thus gains 8 points each level plus the number of bonus points based on high stat.

Also include at what level the caster should gain a new spell level.


For spell slots and spells per day a simple progression based on high progression medium progression and slow progression .

For example a medium progression. Would be like a wizard. High is a sorc. Low is a bard.

Something that mKes sense.

[Sliver]

Did you consider the two UA variants for spellcasting?

Recharge Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm) and Spell Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm).

[Krazzman]

I like to use Spellpoints from Unearthed Arcana for my Pathfinder campaign.

Which "table" for additional spell slots do you mean? The attribute one?
That one is quite easy. For every modifier above 0 you get a bonus spell slot up to the Spell level of your modifier. If your modifier equals or exceeds Spelllevel+4 you get another. And yet another for every 4 after that.

[Zakier]

I have looked them over but theye still mathmatically all over the place. I like the cost amounts but the available points are based loosely on the original spell slots bring converted over by cost and then the amounts altered. It gimps sorcs by having fewer spell points and makes wizards too spontaneous.

Any fixes are simple patches but dont actually fix the underlying problem.

Adding new classes to the system is even difficult as you have to determine there spel slots in 3.5 then convert to spell points.

All this involves the tables having to be reviewed. I'm hoping for simple math.


Level 10 blastrrwidhet has this many points based on *math* would be easier.

[ComaVision]

Just use the Psion as a base...?

[Sliver]

Then the solution is to not play 3.5e.

Casters are broken and there is no fix to that. There isn't a magical fix with simple math to do that for you.

[eggynack]

I don't really see the issue, to be honest. Spells/day are kinda like magic itself, or the entirety of the game. It's the way it is cause that's the way it is, and it operates in exactly the way it says it does cause whatever. Any system you use is gonna be kinda arbitrary, even if you pick a more common mathematic sequence as the basis. It just feels like you're gonna wind up putting in a lot of effort for something as frivolous as aesthetics. And the wizard spells/day isn't that inscrutable either. Odd levels you get a new spell/day in the least level where you don't have spells yet (or just the highest level, if you already have 9th's), and one spell three spell levels below that, if possible. Even levels you get a new spell/day in your two highest levels. Sorcerer is, if anything, even more straightforward. You just kinda keep putting spells into the two highest spell levels. If there's room, cause you have two levels with below six spells/day, then you put one spell/day in each of those. Otherwise, you stick three in a new spell level and one below that. Again, we're not working with super-beautiful numbers here, but there's a logic to it, and ditching the system just cause the sequence isn't beautiful seems pointless. It's functional, and I think that should be enough.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I really don't see any issue with the spell slot system.
The need to put some forethought into spell selection is one of the precious few limits casters have placed on them. There's no need to remove it.

If your group collectively doesn't like it pick the spell point system from UA, but you should be aware that it's a not insignificant buff to casters, who really don't need one.

[Sword-Geass]

eggynack nailed it. There IS a logic progression for spells per day, and it has already been stated that extra spells per day follow a mathematic progression.

[eggynack]

Was just thinking about mathematical patterns for a bit, cause such is my nature, and found a neat one in the wizard spells/day. If you weight the gains based on their spell level, and list them out, then you get a sequence that's pretty clean aside from the beginning, and, though I haven't looked yet, probably the end. Check it. 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5, 7, 7, 9, 9, 11, 11, 13, 13, 15, 15, 17, 16, 17. So, yeah, clean mathematical sequence aside from the inescapably problematic bits at the beginning and the end. If the developers could plausibly extend the sequences to negative and 10+ levels, they probably would have. And, of course, it's not like that's a problem your arbitrary system would be able to solve without taking a hit in playability. Is that sufficiently nice looking? Dunno how it works for the other classes, but using a similar system will probably get something not-hideous.

[Zakier]

We ended up coming up with our own spell progression. So far the math is done for an artificer alone. Since that's the only caster ish player we have.

Level. Math
1= (([Level]+1)/2) (min 2)
2= (([Level] )/2)
3= (([Level] -3)/2)
4= (([Level] -6)/2)
5= (([Level] -9)/2)
6= (([Level] -12)/2)

All having a cap of 4

Bonus spells per day

((1+[BaseInt] -[SpellLevel])/4)

[BaseInt]=Base Int Stat (Not modifier)

This gives a real bonus to higher base stat casters.

An additional house rule is Focus Points.

A Caster can sacrifice 1 spell slot to receive an equivalent number of focus points equal to the level of the slot

Points gained equal to
Pts=[SpellLevel]+([SpellLevel]-1)

These points can be spent on spells in the same way that action points originally worked. 1 point spent a time to decrease the time spent to cast the spell.

These points can also be spent to spontaneously add a known meta magic to a spell.

[Psyren]

Yeah, I'm not even going to try to parse all that when there's a nice table in the PHB/CRB I can read instead - a table I'm already familiar with, in fact.

If I were to get rid of slots, some form of Recharge Magic would be my next best bet.

[BWR]

I think we all can agree the spells per day slots system is broken.


You'd be wrong. I have no problems with spell slots or think they're broken, nor do most of the people I play with. In the same way we don't think that HP are 'broken' or experience points are broken or numerical modifiers to randomized numbers from die rolls used to determine success or failure of actions is broken: it isn't. The system works.

You may like or dislike it as you will, but the game, and other spell slot games I've tried, work just fine with spell slots.
As for 'sense', what makes sense to some people doesn't make sense to others, and I have little to no problems with the current set-up.