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Strigon
2016-07-04, 07:15 PM
Hello playgrounders! I've been working on a campaign on and off for a while now, in the hopes that I would eventually be able to GM it, as many of my friends are away for university. This summer, we're all going to be back home, and it looks like I'll finally be able to run it!

There is, however, one fly in the ointment. Most of the campaign is quite friendly towards - indeed, even requiring - player initiative. The very beginning, unfortunately, is quite linear. While I accept that the opening of any campaign is the most linear part, I can't help but feel that my particular choice drags on quite a bit, having essentially clearly-labeled plot points saying "Go here, do this, follow the next sign".

Any chance some of you could give general tips on how to open it up a bit? Ideally, I'm not looking for advice along the lines of "What if the players do this? You should then do this.", but more towards something that would allow any player choice to follow an engaging storyline. Of course, I realize that's something of a tall order, so any advice at all will be appreciated. Beggars can't be choosers, and all that!

The campaign opens in a small mining town, home to all the PCs. The town isn't self-sufficient, relying on its mineral wealth to buy food and supplies. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a trade caravan in quite some time. After waiting quite some time, the mayor decided to send his son with some of the more able-bodied citizens (read: the party) to see what the issue is.

There's some background fluff and teasers between them leaving and their arrival, but long story short they find the nearest trading partner destroyed by what seems to be an incredible storm. There's only one survivor - a young girl who hid once the storm came, due to her fear of them.

The mayor's son suggests the party take her to a nearby city, where the lord of the county lives, explain that they need help, and possibly have the young girl explain what happened. Once they arrive at the city, some goblins who got past the gate try to kidnap the girl, wearing a symbol belonging to a small-time Orc warlord.

The lord can identify the symbol and where the warlord has been pillaging lately. He urges the party to see why the warlord wants that specific girl, suspecting he may have some connection to the destruction of his towns, while he and his men send emergency aid to the party's hometown.

After visiting the last place the warlord raided, they can identify a path to their base of operations. The warlord is surprisingly savvy, and he doesn't trust his master, who told him to kidnap the girl, so he was gathering information on him. This information leads to several leads the party can follow, and it's only here that the campaign opens up.

Sorry, tried to keep it brief, but I had to highlight the important bits.
So, can any of you give some thoughts on how to make the beginning more open-ended?

2D8HP
2016-07-04, 07:30 PM
First off don't use "hooks". Back in my day we didn't bother to use hooks.
Use settings/situations instead.
1)Make up or steal find a scene that looks like it will be fun/exciting.
2) Listen to what the players say.
3) Have them roll some dice for suspense.
4) Tell the players what changed in the scene.
5) Repeat
"Your at the entrance of the Tomb of Blaarg what do you do?" If they're real contrary "Your inside the Tomb of Blaarg, what do you do?". If they're super contrary, "your trapped deep inside the Tomb of Blaarg" etc. Just quickly narrate to the part where the actual adventure begins. They can role-play how they turned tail and ran back to the tavern.
If they still make a fuss?

Hey! How did we wind up here?! I didn't vote for this!
Sheesh!
Damn kids today!
Being a player is most of the fun, and less than half of the headache of being a DM! Your doing them a favor!

Sorry guys, I don't have anything else prepared. How about a game of risk? I've also got Excalibur on DVD and Conan the Destroyer, and Hawk the Slayer on VHS.
or even make one of them "put on the daddy pants" and be the DM!

Here's the screen and some dice. Shall I play my Fighter/Rogue or my Ranger?
For a crash course in DM/player interaction see DM of the Rings (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=14)
For more advice see My best post ever! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492877-Player-friendly-campaign-settings&p=20963982#post20963982)

ClintACK
2016-07-04, 11:33 PM
A few suggestions....

1. Minimize the Time in on the Rails. (High Speed Rail)

If you need railroading for the introduction... make it fast.

The plot you described could be three months of sessions, or it could be three sessions. First session you introduce the scenario (town cut off, your friends and families will starve in X weeks, travel times are Y) and end with the arrival at the burnt out village and the discovery of the girl. Second session gets them to the city and the Lord. Third session, they're basically off the rails in the big city with problems to solve and a few interesting leads.

Just turn the traveling into a quick montage of descriptions from you -- what are the roads like? An incident with raccoons getting into their supplies one night. And so on. Maybe a quick random encounter (or not so random -- a couple of goblins deserters from the warlord's army -- though the party won't realize that yet)?

2. Minimize the Railroading: Let the Players Decide Things (Loose Rails)

Set up the situation Their friends and families will starve if the supply routes don't open. and let them come up with options Let them throw out ideas at the meeting with the Mayor. If they don't come up with it, he may suggest traveling to the trading partner to see why the caravan hasn't been through -- but with any luck you can get them to suggest it.

What other ideas might the party come up with? What about loading a few farm wagons with ore from the mine and trying to trade it for basic foodstuffs to bring back? That could still work. They're still going to travel to the same place!
But let the Players decide what to do, even if there's really only one good option.

3. Preload your "forces", disguising them as options.

Maybe drop the mayor's son? It feels like you want him there to tell the PCs what the next step is. That's going to *feel* far more confining than it is.

Example: "The mayor's son suggests the party take her to a nearby city, where the lord of the county lives, explain that they need help, and possibly have the young girl explain what happened."

Instead, have the mayor give the party a letter of introduction to the local lord -- let it be one of their options. Go check out (trading partner) to see about the caravan. Or go to (city) to see (lord) and beg for help. Or try to make their own caravan. Or... (less good options).

Now, when (trading partner) has been destroyed and they find the girl... going to (city) to talk to (lord) has been preloaded as a fallback option for the party. They can "come up with it" by themselves. (And if they don't, you've got the girl there to mention the lord...)

It's still railroading, but it might feel less blunt.

Freelance GM
2016-07-04, 11:58 PM
Any chance some of you could give general tips on how to open it up a bit? Ideally, I'm not looking for advice along the lines of "What if the players do this? You should then do this.", but more towards something that would allow any player choice to follow an engaging storyline.

The campaign opens in a small mining town, home to all the PCs. The town isn't self-sufficient, relying on its mineral wealth to buy food and supplies. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a trade caravan in quite some time. After waiting quite some time, the mayor decided to send his son with some of the more able-bodied citizens (read: the party) to see what the issue is.

There's some background fluff and teasers between them leaving and their arrival, but long story short they find the nearest trading partner destroyed by what seems to be an incredible storm. There's only one survivor - a young girl who hid once the storm came, due to her fear of them.

The mayor's son suggests the party take her to a nearby city, where the lord of the county lives, explain that they need help, and possibly have the young girl explain what happened. Once they arrive at the city, some goblins who got past the gate try to kidnap the girl, wearing a symbol belonging to a small-time Orc warlord.

The lord can identify the symbol and where the warlord has been pillaging lately. He urges the party to see why the warlord wants that specific girl, suspecting he may have some connection to the destruction of his towns, while he and his men send emergency aid to the party's hometown.

After visiting the last place the warlord raided, they can identify a path to their base of operations. The warlord is surprisingly savvy, and he doesn't trust his master, who told him to kidnap the girl, so he was gathering information on him. This information leads to several leads the party can follow, and it's only here that the campaign opens up.

Sorry, tried to keep it brief, but I had to highlight the important bits.
So, can any of you give some thoughts on how to make the beginning more open-ended?

It's easier than you think. It may sound like a lot of work, but you've really already done most of it.

I'd strongly recommend you take a look at a 5E adventure, especially Lost Mine of Phandelver, Out of the Abyss, or Curse of Strahd. These adventures give the players a clear objective, and provide several locations to explore. Each location has its own list of subplots and side-quests, and while each area is designed with a certain level in mind, the players can go to the sites in any order, in their quest to complete their long-term objective.

In this case, you have at least five locations to work with. The player's town, the two destroyed towns, the city, and the Orc warlord's lair. That's plenty for a short adventure, or at least the first act of your campaign.

The players can go to one destroyed town, and find the Warlord's insignia and a trail to the lair. Maybe there's a subplot about bandits picking over the ruins, or survivors needing the party to pick up essential supplies for them.

The other destroyed town has the little girl, and maybe a monster infestation, or a mad druid convinced the destruction was caused by his god. Something exciting, preferably with treasure, to make it stand out from the last one, and more than just another destroyed town.

But the players can go to either town, or both. If they choose the former town, then they've found the Warlord's symbol, and their quest becomes finding someone who can identify it. If they choose the latter town, then the plot goes more or less as you wrote it, with them taking the little girl to the city (or possibly their own hometown) to see if she can explain what happened. Sending goblins to kidnap her feels a bit unnecessary, especially if the PCs go to both towns and find the Warlord's symbol that way. If you want, the goblin abduction attempt can still happen regardless of where the players take the girl.

Maybe she's actually a demigod/wild mage, and she actually destroyed her town in a completely unrelated accident. It provides a better reason for the Warlord's boss to be interested in her, and further distinguishes the two destroyed towns. One may have clearly been pillaged by organized raiders, while the other still tingles with the lingering effects of a magical calamity.

I've got to go (work in the morning), but hopefully this helps you out!

Xuc Xac
2016-07-05, 12:54 AM
Don't play through the introduction. Just read them the synopsis in the OP as "boxed text" and ask "So what do you do now?"

Hopeless
2016-07-05, 03:14 AM
Let your players know they're starting off as villagers living in a frontier mining town and should provide you with a background as to why they're there and more importantly understand the game opens with them answering a call for aid from the Village Mayor.

This way they get to start the game by introducing themselves and why they're there and you can use that to help get your game off the ground.

Might want to make a list of potential subplots and npcs for example maybe make that little girl related to one of the PCs so they have a reason to keep her safe, defend her when those goblins try to kidnap her, etc...

Maybe they had family living at that traders station but their remains can't be found suggesting that storm was just to cover up something else going on?

Make the Mayor's son a rival of one of the PCs perhaps they're afraid of being disinherited or jealous at the regard their father is giving these low born barbarians?

Is the shadowy nemesis setting things up to conquer the nation and eventually their mining town home is going to be targeted?

Have they discussed their characters with you yet?

Seppo87
2016-07-05, 04:46 AM
After waiting quite some time, the mayor decided to send his son with some of the more able-bodied citizens (read: the party) to see what the issue is.
Wrong!
The party can't buy things because the economy is frozen.
This pisses them off and they take the initiative.
Not railroading.

"I go to another town instead because I don't feel like helping" okay do that.
(it would be your fault for not asking them to make adventurers who want to go adventure instead of random murderhobos anyway)
Make sure one of them literally stumble on a beggar as soon as they decide to go and ignore the issue, just to make the point that they're leaving behind a town with a serious problem. There are no consequences for this except that they will feel bad if you do it right.
This is not railroading.


they find the nearest trading partner destroyed by what seems to be an incredible storm. There's only one survivor - a young girl who hid once the storm came, due to her fear of them.
Good. This can happen anywhere. It will be "the next town"


The mayor's son suggests the party take her to a nearby city, where the lord of the county lives, explain that they need help, and possibly have the young girl explain what happened. Once they arrive at the city, some goblins who got past the gate try to kidnap the girl, wearing a symbol belonging to a small-time Orc warlord.
Let the party decide what to do with the girl. The mayor's son *might* suggest that the lord of the country is more relevant, IF they care to speak with him.
Who cares anyway? The goblin are tracking the girl and will attempt to kidnap her wherever she is.
This is not railroading, they are tracking the girl behind the scene. It makes sense in-universe.


The lord can identify the symbol
The characters with a decent "knowledge local" result can identify the symbol.
If they all fail and no one tries Gather Information, they'll notice a passerby that looks briefly at the symbol, becomes pale and goes away pretending he saw nothing.
I can bet 10 bucks that any murderhobo will be bothered by that and stop the guy with force if necessary, simply to ask what's wrong.
"I will not tell anyone please don't take me to warlord XYZ's base in the (natural terrain type), everyone knows he's ruthless and brutal"


He urges the party to see why the warlord wants that specific girl
Nope. Make the girl a character. Make her defined and interesting, maybe a couple cute quirks can help.
A good storyteller can make a character likeable, that's your job. If the players don't give a damn about the NPC when you're trying to make them, something's wrong.
If you succeed, you have achieved 2 important goals:
-Something memorable happened, the NPC is not anonymous and will be remembered
-Now something's at stake. Tension and involvement will propel the plot, you just need to follow along.

However,

Go all the way if you need: if the character fails you can buy them as a last resort.
Make her show interest for a party member if he wants to play the womanizer type.
Make her have rich friends if there is an avid character.
Be amazed and amused by the party's show off feats and make positive comments (implying there will be more if they hang around).
Promise them something they crave, and then make it clear that if she gets caught, they're going to lose it.

Don't order them around. Give them something instead. That's how you motivate people.


The warlord is surprisingly savvy, and he doesn't trust his master, who told him to kidnap the girl, so he was gathering information on him. This information leads to several leads the party can follow, and it's only here that the campaign opens up
Do not rely on this.
Leave alternate hints around that they can find instead.
i.e. a wanted poster with the warlord's master name and no face (or vice-versa) and a prize for finding AND catching him; go speak with the country lord if you want to take the quest.
(the country lord's men found the hint that the party missed or ignored. simple as that!)

Anyway as long as they hang with the girl, they'll be hunted whatever they do.

Just in case of emergency, have the girl give her hairpin/nekclace/whatever to the one who's been the most gentle to her as a parting gift.
To make sure they don't throw it away or sell it, make it worthless from a monetary standpoint but, hey, there's this strange phrase written on it that no one seems able to decypher!
That was actually what the warlord was after.

Sooner or later they'll find out and now they want to get revenge on the girl. Go look for the girl!
Who has the girl? The warlord, and he's mad because she doesn't have the MacGuffin.
Reverse hook, profit.

Strigon
2016-07-05, 08:53 AM
All right, lots of advice, lots to consider. Some isn't practical, just because of exactly who and what's going on that I just didn't have time to mention, but most of it's great! Which is in a way unfortunate, because most of it is also mutually exclusive with the other advice.
Anyway!


First off don't use "hooks". Back in my day we didn't bother to use hooks.
Use settings/situations instead.
1)Make up or steal find a scene that looks like it will be fun/exciting.
2) Listen to what the players say.
3) Have them roll some dice for suspense.
4) Tell the players what changed in the scene.
5) Repeat

Advice I agree with in general, but not here. I've worked with this group before, and until they've got a plot going, interacting with situations... well, let's just say it isn't their strong suit. They usually need at least a couple of sessions to become familiar with their characters and options.


A few suggestions....

1. Minimize the Time in on the Rails. (High Speed Rail)

If you need railroading for the introduction... make it fast.


That's roughly where I was before asking for advice. I hope to get off the rails earlier in the story, as well as earlier in the year, though.




2. Minimize the Railroading: Let the Players Decide Things (Loose Rails)

This is a good one. I also suspect that, should the players come up with a suitable alternative, I can make it work. At the very least, I can keep things cohesive until the end of the session, where I can then see how their actions might influence the situation.



3. Preload your "forces", disguising them as options.


It's still railroading, but it might feel less blunt.

The bit about the letter of introduction I quite like; it gives them an option, but doesn't force it. That's a very handy way of doing things.


It's easier than you think. It may sound like a lot of work, but you've really already done most of it.
...
In this case, you have at least five locations to work with. The player's town, the two destroyed towns, the city, and the Orc warlord's lair. That's plenty for a short adventure, or at least the first act of your campaign.
...
But the players can go to either town, or both.

This is also pretty good. Especially if I sprinkle in a few more flavourful or plot-related encounters, this could work wonderfully!



Maybe she's actually a demigod/wild mage, and she actually destroyed her town in a completely unrelated accident. It provides a better reason for the Warlord's boss to be interested in her, and further distinguishes the two destroyed towns. One may have clearly been pillaged by organized raiders, while the other still tingles with the lingering effects of a magical calamity.

I've got to go (work in the morning), but hopefully this helps you out!
Another thing I like in general, but just won't fit here. Unfortunately, the BBEG (who is in charge of this warlord) destroyed both. He wants the girl because she's a witness (or he thinks she is - she was hidden and is a bit too young to fully understand what she saw), and if he's found out, he's screwed. This setting has some very powerful players, who are in an uneasy peace, but could easily crush him if ired - so he's trying to remain hidden enough that they can't risk the peace over someone they aren't even sure exists. Hence the storm, trying to give a certain amount of reasonable doubt.


Let your players know they're starting off as villagers living in a frontier mining town and should provide you with a background as to why they're there and more importantly understand the game opens with them answering a call for aid from the Village Mayor.

This way they get to start the game by introducing themselves and why they're there and you can use that to help get your game off the ground.

Might want to make a list of potential subplots and npcs for example maybe make that little girl related to one of the PCs so they have a reason to keep her safe, defend her when those goblins try to kidnap her, etc...

Maybe they had family living at that traders station but their remains can't be found suggesting that storm was just to cover up something else going on?

Make the Mayor's son a rival of one of the PCs perhaps they're afraid of being disinherited or jealous at the regard their father is giving these low born barbarians?

Is the shadowy nemesis setting things up to conquer the nation and eventually their mining town home is going to be targeted?

Have they discussed their characters with you yet?

Also something I was planning to do - except the spoilered bits, those are quite nice!
To answer your questions: 1) Yes he is, but their home town is a small village in a fairly dull province - no reason their hometown in particular would be targeted.
2) No they haven't; we're still in the "rounding up the group" phase of this campaign. I just figured the more time I had to incorporate your advice, the better!


snip

That's also something I can work with; plenty of information here!

Thanks for all your help - now I have to decide which advice to follow, and how much of it.
Still, if anyone has any last-minute advice, I wouldn't shun it!