Two-Handed Fighting and Unarmed

[SetArk]

Hail!
I'm here to ask, having proficiente with unarmed strikes, and using a two-handed weapon, like a glaive.
Can i make a "second hand attack" as an unarmed with a bonus action?

Like, i've got Tavern Brawler, and normally i use a Glaive to fight.
Normally, my bonus action isn't used with anything, so i started to think, could i hit with the glaive, then use my bonus action to punch someone?
I know it's little damage, but it could be used to Shove, if it is a Attack.

Anyone has any thoughts?

Sorry for confusion or bad grammar, english isn't my nature language xD

[R.Shackleford]

Hail!
I'm here to ask, having proficiente with unarmed strikes, and using a two-handed weapon, like a glaive.
Can i make a "second hand attack" as an unarmed with a bonus action?

Like, i've got Tavern Brawler, and normally i use a Glaive to fight.
Normally, my bonus action isn't used with anything, so i started to think, could i hit with the glaive, then use my bonus action to punch someone?
I know it's little damage, but it could be used to Shove, if it is a Attack.

Anyone has any thoughts?

Sorry for confusion or bad grammar, english isn't my nature language xD

Sadly the 5e rules are quite fussy and don't allow this.

However ask your DM. Personally I allow such things as martials are already punished enough in this game.

[Rysto]

In order to be eligible for two-weapon fighting, you have to be wielding a one-handed light weapon, so no.

(Plus you have to be wielding a second one-handed light weapon in your off-hand to get the bonus attack)

[R.Shackleford]

In order to be eligible for two-weapon fighting, you have to be wielding a one-handed light weapon, so no.

(Plus you have to be wielding a second one-handed light weapon in your off-hand to get the bonus attack)

Because holding a dagger or hammer is lighter than having an empty hand!

[Rysto]

Because holding a dagger or hammer is lighter than having an empty hand!

Well yeah, that's why the first requirement is probably more important. But I knew that if I didn't mention it somebody would wave their finger at me and said I forgot that part of the rule.

[Plaguescarred]

If you take the Polearm Master feat, then you'll be able to attack with your glaive normally, and make an attack as a bonus action with the opposite end for 1d4 + STR mod bludgeoning which could easily be portrayed as a punch strike.

And you'll get a nice additional opportunity attack option to boot!

[R.Shackleford]

Well yeah, that's why the first requirement is probably more important. But I knew that if I didn't mention it somebody would wave their finger at me and said I forgot that part of the rule.

Oh, I'm just being facetious toward WotC and their fiddly rules.

[LordFluffy]

Oh, I'm just being facetious toward WotC and their fiddly rules.

I've taken in that, given an individual attack is actually representing several blows and parries, the 1hp damage that open hands do is a representation of many strikes using both hands.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You can do it as a Monk two-handing a quarterstaff or spear, though!

[Lombra]

Everyone is proficient in unarmed strikes, as per errata the part of tavern brawler that states that you are proficient with your unarmed strikes is redundant and pointless.

Also you can't push or grapple out of a bonus action (unless a feat allows you to, like shield master), these options only apply to attacks taken during the attack action.

Anyways as per RAW you can't do bonus unarmed strikes unless you are a monk wielding monk weapons.

[Tectorman]

You can only do your off-hand attack if you get the bonus action to do so. You only get the bonus action under very specific circumstances (two weapons, both being light; this can be expanded to any two weapons, but that still precludes something like a glaive).

Monks can get an "unarmed attack only" bonus action attack and because it's not any specific part of the body, you can two-hand a staff or a spear, get the better damage out of Versatile, and still get the unarmed attack. Because Martial Arts requires the main attacks be made with a Simple weapon or an unarmed attack or a Short Sword, you still can't attack with a glaive and throw in an extra unarmed attack.

However, as far as I've read, Flurry of Blows does not have that restriction. Theoretically, you can spend a ki point and get two unarmed attacks as a bonus action regardless of what you attacked with first, be it a greataxe, a maul, or a glaive.

[djreynolds]

You can do it as a Monk two-handing a quarterstaff or spear, though!

Right, quarterstaff, quarterstaff, kick

[RickAllison]

Right, quarterstaff, quarterstaff, kick

Heck, I like fluffing the Versatile attacks with the unarmed as the monk jabbing the stick into the ground and either pole-vaulting into a kick or flag-poling into a double kick.

Alternatively, Sweeping Strike (Shove, but fluffed as a tripping attempt with the quarterstaff) to Python's Coil (Grapple, fluffed as trapping them within the quarterstaff) to Elephant's Tusks (double headbutt Flurry of Blows).

In the case of the Fighter, I encourage finding Attacks that have alternative effects. We have examples of this in Shove, Grapple, and Disarm from the DMG. So the level 6 fighter in question could go into battle with one weapon drawn, attempt to Disarm an appropriate weapon with the first attack, follow up with the second strike with the main weapon, then finish with a blow from the disarmed weapon, keeping it out of the hands of the enemy.

Alternatively, don't bother treating the fallen weapon as itself, but as an improvised thrown weapon. The long range on those is 60 feet, so disarming an opponent and throwing away their weapon with the bonus action attack is a great way to mess with anyone who didn't take Athletics or Acrobatics. Finally, Enlarge effects would help because then the fighter has advantage on those attempts if the target is medium as well, and be on even footing with Large opponents.

Taking other maneuvers with Attack can also be useful, DM permitting. The humble trident could have some use when used to lock an item onto the ground (which then disarms the user... No solution is perfect with tridents!), while a whip could be used to snuff out a lamp right before the enemy's turn.

Fighters get the greatest amount of attacks in the game, and I firmly believe this is because they are supposed to be the best at not just sword-slinging, but fighting. A creative fighter should be able to leverage his bonus attacks to change up the battlefield (admittedly less so at early levels, when they have the same amount of attacks as others). A rogue uses their bonus actions to improvise actions, spellcasters use spells, monks use the environment, and fighters should use their extra attacks to keep enemies constantly off guard.

Edit: Sorry, that came off as really rant-y :smallbiggrin:

[djreynolds]

Heck, I like fluffing the Versatile attacks with the unarmed as the monk jabbing the stick into the ground and either pole-vaulting into a kick or flag-poling into a double kick.

Alternatively, Sweeping Strike (Shove, but fluffed as a tripping attempt with the quarterstaff) to Python's Coil (Grapple, fluffed as trapping them within the quarterstaff) to Elephant's Tusks (double headbutt Flurry of Blows).

In the case of the Fighter, I encourage finding Attacks that have alternative effects. We have examples of this in Shove, Grapple, and Disarm from the DMG. So the level 6 fighter in question could go into battle with one weapon drawn, attempt to Disarm an appropriate weapon with the first attack, follow up with the second strike with the main weapon, then finish with a blow from the disarmed weapon, keeping it out of the hands of the enemy.

Alternatively, don't bother treating the fallen weapon as itself, but as an improvised thrown weapon. The long range on those is 60 feet, so disarming an opponent and throwing away their weapon with the bonus action attack is a great way to mess with anyone who didn't take Athletics or Acrobatics. Finally, Enlarge effects would help because then the fighter has advantage on those attempts if the target is medium as well, and be on even footing with Large opponents.

Taking other maneuvers with Attack can also be useful, DM permitting. The humble trident could have some use when used to lock an item onto the ground (which then disarms the user... No solution is perfect with tridents!), while a whip could be used to snuff out a lamp right before the enemy's turn.

Fighters get the greatest amount of attacks in the game, and I firmly believe this is because they are supposed to be the best at not just sword-slinging, but fighting. A creative fighter should be able to leverage his bonus attacks to change up the battlefield (admittedly less so at early levels, when they have the same amount of attacks as others). A rogue uses their bonus actions to improvise actions, spellcasters use spells, monks use the environment, and fighters should use their extra attacks to keep enemies constantly off guard.

Edit: Sorry, that came off as really rant-y :smallbiggrin:

Not at all, people forget you don't have to attack. I will literally take the dodge action and force the enemy not to attack me but move around me and grab AoO. I will give up both attacks to prone somebody and let my party attack with advantage. I will draw AoO, take some damage, but this allows others to move freely as I've eaten up the enemy's lone reaction attack.

[R.Shackleford]

Not at all, people forget you don't have to attack. I will literally take the dodge action and force the enemy not to attack me but move around me and grab AoO. I will give up both attacks to prone somebody and let my party attack with advantage. I will draw AoO, take some damage, but this allows others to move freely as I've eaten up the enemy's lone reaction attack.

This is the type of view that just misses the point.

You can make a Cleric that can grapple, shove, or do other mundane actions that any commoner can do. The problem is that other classes like the Cleric, Paladin, Warlock, and whomever else get additional stuff outside of the absolutely mundane actions that Fighters can also use. The Fighter is a class that is 4 levels long. Level 1, 2, 3, and 5 (Level 4 isn't Fighter specific).

If other classes couldn't use grapple, shove, or other maneuvers very well... Perhaps the base rule was disadvantage but Barbarians and Fighters didn't take that disadvantage you would have a small point.

It isn't even that hard to give martials features that go beyond the mundane. Hell, you can work with the mundane options and make them special.

Two Simple Feats for my Sellsword look like this...

Powerful Grab: On your turn whenever you successfully perform a grapple maneuver you deal 1d4 + Str damage to the target.

Quick Grab: You may replace an OA with a grapple maneuver.

See the difference here? Anyone can grapple, a commoner, a cleric, a paladin, but only a Sellsword with actual class features can go beyond what other NPCs and PCs can do with the grapple. If you use Powerful Grab then people are going to be able to tell you are a Martial character.

In your description above you really can't tell if you are a Fighter, Paladin, Wizard, or Bard. That is a sign that what you are doing has nothing to do with the class. You aren't using Class Features, you are using Basic Rules.

And if you think that getting to level 11 or 20 so you can grapple more is somehow an answer to this issue... No... Hardly anyone plays those high levels and even if they do (which my groups do) you are still performing level 1 actions at mid to high levels. That would be like forcing casters to use level 1 spells, with no scaling, at mid to high level without any other new spells. I would absolutely hate that...

[Vogonjeltz]

However, as far as I've read, Flurry of Blows does not have that restriction. Theoretically, you can spend a ki point and get two unarmed attacks as a bonus action regardless of what you attacked with first, be it a greataxe, a maul, or a glaive.

True, but it costs a point of ki and monks don't have proficiency in any of those weapons. So it's generally easier to just use the monk weapons.

[Grod_The_Giant]

This is the type of view that just misses the point.

You can make a Cleric that can grapple, shove, or do other mundane actions that any commoner can do. The problem is that other classes like the Cleric, Paladin, Warlock, and whomever else get additional stuff outside of the absolutely mundane actions that Fighters can also use.
This. Skills? 5e is good about everyone having access and not gating things behind high skill point advancement. Combat maneuvers? Fantastic, you can actually do things without needing ten levels of specialized build. If no-one else got similar stuff from their class, and everyone relied on the common core, you'd be fine.

But.


Bards get... just... so much.
Clerics have plenty of noncombat spells, and some domains double down
Druids have plenty of noncombat spells, and Wild Shape has pretty much endless uses
Monks... well, even the most militant Monk can run up walls and has good scores in the two most useful abilities; Four Elements get some stuff and Shadows are the game's best sneaks.
Paladins have at least some spells, which they're actually well advised to prepare since they can always convert them into Smites if necessary.
Rangers are practically nothing but utility
Rogues own skills in a way that no-one but the Bard can approach
Sorcerers have a blasty spell list, but you don't need that many blasts-- you've got plenty of room for charms, illusions and the like.
Warlocks get plenty of useful stuff from Invocations alone
Wizards.


Even Barbarians (can) get three useful utility rituals and super-strength, super-sight, or super-Ranger tracking and stealth. The Fighter? The Fighter can get one Expertise, or some tiny bonus to some ability checks. They're about dead last for abilities not about killing dudes.