For just a few slots more...

[Allstar]

I'm trying to up the number of my prepared Spell Slots, with minimal cheese, I don't mind investing a few feats but I can't invest a few levels or do any quests for abilities.

So my theory, does this:

FEAT NAME: Alacritous Cogitation (Complete Mage)
DESCRIPTION: You can leave a prepared spell slot open to spontaneously cast a spell.
BENEFIT: If you leave an arcane spell slot open when preparing spells, you can use that open slot to cast any arcane spell you know of the same level or lower and of casting time no longer than 1 round. Casting the spell requires a full-round action. You can use this feat only once per day, regardless of the number of slots you leave open.

Qualify for this:


FEAT NAME: Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon)
PREREQUISITE: Ability to spontaneously cast spells.
DESCRIPTION: You can use two lower-level spell slots to cast a spell one level higher.

And then qualify to take 'Extra Slot' to get more slots at my actual maximum level rather than <maximum level -1>? [EDITTED in, below]

FEAT NAME: Extra Slot (Complete Arcane)
DESCRIPTION: You can cast an additional spell.
BENEFIT: You gain one extra spell slot in your daily allotment, at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. For example, a 4th-level sorcerer (maximum spell level 2nd) gains either an extra 0-level or 1stlevel slot, and is able to cast any spell he knows of the chosen level one more time each day. Likewise, a 4th-level wizard can prepare any extra 0-level or 1st-level spell he knows. Once selected, the extra spell slot never changes level.


ie You've got four Level 4 Slots and combine two of them to cast a Level 5 spell. Since I can cast Level 5 spells I get to take a Level 4 slot instead of Level 3?

I do not think I can combine all four Level 4 Slots to cast two Level 5 Spells and combine them to cast a Level 6 Spell. I'm quite content with more Slots at my actual maximum slot-age.
(Or just one level higher, anywhere, via a different method... :P)

[Diarmuid]

I can follow the RAW logic of AC letting you qualify for VS, but I dont see how VS would let you get slots up to maximum level with ES.

I also dont see how VS would let you daisy chain 4 0's into 2 1's into 1 2nd. The feat is explicit in saying you can expend 2 slots to cast 1 slot higher.

[Allstar]

I can follow the RAW logic of AC letting you qualify for VS, but I dont see how VS would let you get slots up to maximum level with ES.


Feat:

FEAT NAME: Extra Slot (Complete Arcane)
DESCRIPTION: You can cast an additional spell.
BENEFIT: You gain one extra spell slot in your daily allotment, at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. For example, a 4th-level sorcerer (maximum spell level 2nd) gains either an extra 0-level or 1stlevel slot, and is able to cast any spell he knows of the chosen level one more time each day. Likewise, a 4th-level wizard can prepare any extra 0-level or 1st-level spell he knows. Once selected, the extra spell slot never changes level.


--- --- ---


I also dont see how VS would let you daisy chain 4 0's into 2 1's into 1 2nd. The feat is explicit in saying you can expend 2 slots to cast 1 slot higher.
We are in agreement, but I think I've seen some people use it that way and I wanted to be clear that I don't think anyone can.

[Diarmuid]

I'm still not sure how Versatile Spellcaster is enabling Extra Slot to grant you a slot at your highest available spell level.



You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher


There' are some problems I see with your thinking. Assume N is max level spells:

1) You dont "know" any spells of level N+1

2) You can't combine 2 level N spells to get a N+1 slot as you dont have any N+1 slots. You dont have a "0" that can be increased to "0+1" You have a "-" which is not a number.

So you effectively cant "cast" N+1 level spells, so you wouldnt be able to get a level N slot with Extra Slot.

[Snowbluff]

There' are some problems I see with your thinking. Assume N is max level spells:

1) You dont "know" any spells of level N+1

^ A bold assumption, considering that someone with AC is probably a wizard, meaning that they can just scribe whatever spell they need into their spellbook.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If you want more spells i'd suggest increasing your casting stat, becoming a specialist/focused specialist/elven generalist, getting Pearls of Power or a Ring of Wizardry or buying some (eternal) wands of spells that don't rely on CL or save DC to be useful.
The feats are better spend on things that make your spells better, so you have to cast less of them and they last longer.

A wand of Mnemonic Enhancer is expensive, but it's very versatile and useful when you need a specific low-level spell you haven't prepared or run out of spells and need a quick recharge.
Get Enhance Item to increase the save DCs of wands you make by your casting modifier. Craft wands of spells you use often. Or just use it on scrolls if you don't want to spend the feat.
Unbound Scroll can get "virtual" scroll uses that you can stock up infinitely until you need them for no cost beyond crafting the first scroll.
Echoing Spell with a few metamagic reducers also gets you additional spell uses in exchange for decreased CL for casts after the first (get metamagic reducers).

Depending on your DMs cheese tolerance you can also get more/infinite spells with various methods.
Use Sanctum Repeat Mage's Lucubration (with Arcane Thesis + another +0 feat like Invisible Spell) to get infinite 5th level or lower spells.
Unfettered Heroism & Primal Scholar also gets infinite 5th level or lower spells, if Eberron material is allowed. You can increase the spell level with Uncanny Trickster, Legacy Champion or Bloodline levels.

[ExLibrisMortis]

^ A bold assumption, considering that someone with AC is probably a wizard, meaning that they can just scribe whatever spell they need into their spellbook.
This, and if it becomes a problem, you can Heighten a spell. A free +1 Heighten (Earth Spell or Improved Krau Sigil) can replace Versatile Spellcaster, if you can get one, and your DM finds it an appropriate level of optimization (as always, the first and last problem in optimization :smalltongue:).

[Seppo87]

How does Alacritous Cogitation even work - I thought the wizard didn't know spells

[Snowbluff]

How does Alacritous Cogitation even work - I thought the wizard didn't know spells

The spells in their book are considered known for them.

[Andezzar]

How does Alacritous Cogitation even work - I thought the wizard didn't know spellsOf course they do. Every arcane caster knows spells (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_knownspell&alpha=K) - it's just that the number is not fixed for wizards like it is for sorcerers.

[Diarmuid]

It also assumes that any spell in their book is "known", and the initial mentions for adding spells to their books reference only adding spells up to the current level the wizard can cast. I dont think that this not being carried forward in every other mention of adding spells to their books gives license to assume you can add spells of any level to your spellbook, but for purposes of optimization cheese I'm willing to accept that RAW would seem to allow it.

[MisterKaws]

PHB p23


If the entry is “—” for a given level of spells, the character may not cast any spells of that level.

VS doesn't mention overruling this, so it doesn't.

[Snowbluff]

PHB p23



VS doesn't mention overruling this, so it doesn't.

Specific trumps general. VS says you may cast a spell of one level higher.

[MisterKaws]

Specific trumps general. VS says you may cast a spell of one level higher.

Yes, specific does trump general, as long as it clearly mentions overruling the general rule, like Precocious Apprentice does. Casting a spell of one level higher doesn't necessarily mean casting a spell of a level over your normal limit, and it's pretty much up to a DM, who will nearly always refuse unless they're passive DMs or like cheesy interpretations.

[Âmesang]

So if a wizard adds burst of glacial wrath to his spellbook, he'll immediately gain cold resistance 5, right? What happens if another wizard takes that spellbook. Does that wizard gain cold resistance and the former lose it?

Maybe the second one does get it 'cause he didn't learn it, per se, he stole it! :smallannoyed: Shame on him.

[TaiLiu]

Specific trumps general.
Where does this rule come from, anyway? I haven't been able to find it in the books anywhere. Perhaps I am searching in all the wrong places, but...

[Snowbluff]

Where does this rule come from, anyway? I haven't been able to find it in the books anywhere. Perhaps I am searching in all the wrong places, but...

Despite what MisterKaws says, that how the entire game functions. For example, toughness only can give you 3 HP more than you would have only because it says it does.

If you want a specific sourcing rule, I'd ask Curmudgeon. I don't really have an interest in arguing with people; I can come to the correct conclusion with patient study on my own part.

[sleepyphoenixx]

So if a wizard adds burst of glacial wrath to his spellbook, he'll immediately gain cold resistance 5, right? What happens if another wizard takes that spellbook. Does that wizard gain cold resistance and the former lose it?

Maybe the second one does get it 'cause he didn't learn it, per se, he stole it! :smallannoyed: Shame on him.

No. Spells that grant benefits for being learned only grant those benefits to classes with restricted spells known (sorcerers).
Neither wizards nor druids or clerics get those benefits, even if they know the spell in question.

[Andezzar]

Special: A character who learns this spell gains resistance to cold 5, which stacks with any other resistance to cold he already possesses.I see no restriction that only sorcerers get this.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I see no restriction that only sorcerers get this.

I'm AFB and can't remember the source, sorry. I think it's in Dragon Magic, but i may be wrong.

[Andezzar]

I gave the wrong source for the quote. It actually is from Dragon Magic.

[Allstar]

Pearls of Power or a Ring of Wizardry or buying some (eternal) wands of spells that don't rely on CL or save DC to be useful.
I don't like relying on items for such things. But they make for a good alternative, thank you for mentioning them.


A wand of Mnemonic Enhancer is expensive, but it's very versatile and useful when you need a specific low-level spell you haven't prepared or run out of spells and need a quick recharge.
Never heard of that, looks very useful. Thank you very much.


This, and if it becomes a problem, you can Heighten a spell. A free +1 Heighten (Earth Spell or Improved Krau Sigil) can replace Versatile Spellcaster.
Heighten is a metamagic feat so thats a two feat investment with one of those getting access to other metamagic feats, so thats pretty good. Thank you very much.

Improved Sigil (Krau) works for Illumian only. In all my years of playing no-one has played an Illumian in our group and I'm not sure if thats 'cus the DM doesn't allow them (as it is a custom setting, also why abilities/feats from quests because the location might not exist) or people don't like them. I don't think I want to ask. Stringing a few feats is one thing using a whole new race and sigil system is a little much to ask. Good idea.

There are a couple options on the table. Good work all, thanks.

I did originally ask on Arcane casting, but whilst we're at it any got any more ideas that work only on, or also with, Divine casting? :)