[3.5] Looking for Monsters: High HD, Low CR

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

Need some help looking for “monsters”.

Specifically, I’m looking for the following:
- Most importantly, high HD in ratio to it’s CR
- No higher than about CR 6-10
- Creature must be INT 3 or higher(before any templates are applied) (i.e. no Animals, or non-intelligent Plants, Constructs or Undead)
- Preferably evil, but neutral is fine as well

Cheers - T

[tyckspoon]

Are you ok with advancing them, or are you looking for things that meet your qualifications at base in-the-book level? Elementals and Giants both advance at +1 CR /4 HD, which means something like an advanced Ogre would be pretty easy to tune to whatever the desired amount of HD to CR is. If you want something that's unmodified.. I'm afraid I don't know of anything off-hand. Most of the creatures with really outsized HD/CR ratios are that way because they're making up for being unintelligent with raw brute power, which disqualifies them based on Int score.

Edit: That said, check out Elementals. The Large and Huge ones have more than 2:1 HD to CR. Also lycanthropes, if you don't mind templating things - a lycanthrope based on a 10 HD animal gets, well, 10 more HD for only +4 CR. And can potentially be the reason a normally good humanoid is evil or neutral as you want.

[Thurbane]

I'm OK with advancing by HD if necessary, but I'd prefer out-of-the-box options.

I'll look into Elementals, thanks.

[Troacctid]

A zombie with 20 HD is CR 6 regardless of the base creature, and it could easily have 3 Int before applying the template.

[Tiri]

What about Incarnate Constructs? Constructs already have high HD to CR ratios in general, and the template solves the problem of most not having Int scores, as well as halving the CR. For example, an Incarnate Stained Glass Golem has 12 HD at CR 2.


A zombie with 20 HD is CR 6 regardless of the base creature, and it could easily have 3 Int before applying the template.

He did say no to non-intelligent undead, though.

[Thurbane]

Sorry, to be clearer, I'm avoiding non-intelligent creatures as I need creature that can have skill ranks and also take class levels (which requires INT 3 or higher).

[BowStreetRunner]

The Corruption Eater from Heroes of Horror has 15 HD at CR 8, but it requires introducing the Taint rules into your campaign.

From Libris Mortis you get the Blaspheme (18 HD, CR 9), Cinderspawn (10 HD, CR 6), Forsaken Shell (HD 14, CR 6), and Slaughter Wight (HD 18, CR 8).

[Thurbane]

The Corruption Eater from Heroes of Horror has 15 HD at CR 8, but it requires introducing the Taint rules into your campaign.

From Libris Mortis you get the Blaspheme (18 HD, CR 9), Cinderspawn (10 HD, CR 6), Forsaken Shell (HD 14, CR 6), and Slaughter Wight (HD 18, CR 8).

Those are all great suggestions, thank you!

[HolyDraconus]

Dunewinder slides in there as well, with 12 HD, 10 CR and 5 Int

[Pugwampy]

Or..... you just double or triple any monster hit points ?

[Seppo87]

Or..... you just double or triple any monster hit points ?
I have the impression that he's optimizing skills not HP

[Huldaerus]

This may help. (http://monsterfinder.dndrunde.de)

[ComaVision]

Here are my best finds:

Adult Purple Dragon - CR 10 and 22 HD (Dragon Compendium)
Greater Seryulin - CR 10 and 21 HD (MM III)
Drowned - CR 8 and 20 HD (MM III)
Relief Golem - CR 9 and 18 HD (Dragon Mag #334)

I left out elementals since they've been mentioned.

[Inevitability]

Sorry, to be clearer, I'm avoiding non-intelligent creatures as I need creature that can have skill ranks and also take class levels (which requires INT 3 or higher).

Can't you have Awaken Undead cast on a zombie that had 3 intelligence before reanimation?

[DarkSoul]

Tanarukks are 5 HD, CR 2 native outsiders. Monsters of Faerun (3.0), updated to 3.5 in the Player's Guide to Faerun web enhancement. They advance by character class, as well.

[Malimar]

Highest HD at each CR in my document (which includes a lot of sources but not all sources):
1/3 CR: 1HD: mongrelfolk, neogi spawn, goblin, twig blight, gibberling
1/2 CR: 2HD: locathah
1 CR: 3HD: selkie, shadar-kai, yurian, varag, asabi, lesser spirit centipede, jiki-nimu-gaki, ur'epona
2 CR: 6HD: cranium rat swarm (lesser pack)
3 CR: 8HD: phaerlin giant
4 CR: 9HD: alaghi
5 CR: 17HD: mob of children
6 CR: 14HD: forsaken shell
7 CR: 16HD: huge regular elementals, dust wight
8 CR: 30HD: mob of humans
9 CR: 21HD: greater regular elementals
10 CR: 21HD: greater storm elemental, greater seryulin
Looks like best ratio available is the 1:4 locathah.

[ShurikVch]

There is that rule about non-associated classes...
According to it, non-associated lvl 20 is only CR 10 :smallamused:

Half-Ogre Lycanthrope (Legendary Shark) is CR 7 with 31 HD
Phaerlin Giant Entomanothrope (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) (Century Worm) is CR 10 with 48 HD


Sorry, to be clearer, I'm avoiding non-intelligent creatures as I need creature that can have skill ranks and also take class levels (which requires INT 3 or higher).How about the various "Awaken ..."?