Socially Skilled Death Cleric/Church infiltrator build: Thoughts?

[Giegue]

As the title says. I wanted to make a death cleric who can effectively use social skills to be manipulative and, if need be, pass himself off as a member of another faith in lands where his evil cult is not welcome. The basic build is such. Race will be vairant human, with the first level feat being Magic Initiate for the Druid spell list. This gets us a 1st level spell and 1 cantrip, both of which don't matter, but more importantly shillelagh. This single cantrip allows us to use Wisdom for to-hit and damage on our melee weapon attacks, which allows us to utilize all the melee-focused abilities our domain gets with dumped strength. Since we are now dumping strength, we can afford to put what would have went into strength into cha. Seeing this, we get the following starting abilities:

Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 14 (13+1)
Int: 10
Wis: 16 (15+1)
Cha: 14

We take the charlatan background for both deception proficiency and a "cover identity" as a member of a good aligned church. Cleric also gives us persuasion proficiency. Whenever we attempt a social skill check, we always have guidance or enhance ability up, which puts our checks roughly on-par with a charisma-based character who has proficiency but no expertise, making us about as good as a sorcerer or Paladin at social skills, which is not bad. Likewise, since we're using wis for basically everything, we max wis as fast as possible and then pump con. In combat we primarily hang in the back or behind our undead and blast enemies with necrotic spells. Since we have less dex than normal, we don't aim to rush into melee but rather use our melee abilities defensively and tactically, busting them out when an enemy actually manages to get close enough to hit us or attacking from tactically advantageous positions.

Anyway, would this build be viable? Thoughts and opinions are appreciated!

[BW022]

A few general issues...

Many DMs won't permit evil characters, nor do most groups like having characters lying to them. Further, it is pretty much impossible to bluff your way long term in a party. Unless you are in an evil party or have a heck of a good reason to be working together... this isn't likely to end well.

Clerics must present their holy (unholy) symbols when casting spells. They must also pray. Anyone in the player in the party with half a brain will know you are an evil cleric the second you cast a spell or they hear you praying away. Even if you sneak away to pray each night and could cast without your unholy symbol, most DMs and players will resent the heck out of making perception, insight, religion, and other rolls against a PC or goofy DM rulings that "your character wouldn't know this". Most players given a few weeks will have a pretty good idea of what your character is... and hiding things is extremely difficult. Some cantrips aren't going to convince them you are a druid when you aren't wildshaping and are (presumably) wearing metal armor. Nor will most players enjoy being forced to role-play good or neutral characters staying with/not killing/not turning in, etc. an evil character or one who lies to them continuously.

Your character is also not that great mechanically. If you are using a 27 point buy, you might wish to check your numbers. You might also think a non-variant human or half-elf as these races are better at builds requiring a larger number of attributes. As built... your strength is so low, you are going to have an issue in even medium armor and a shield. Weight is going to kill you. AC is going to be an issue. Chainmail, shield, and your dexterity is still only a 16 AC -- even if you could carry the weight. Shillelagh isn't that helpful if you don't have the AC to stay in combat every round. It also doesn't scale as well as even basic cantrips (which do multiple dice or allow multiple attacks as higher levels). Better to stay back and attack with ranged cantrips. Far better taking the initiate feat with warlock and eldritch blast, child touch, and say hex. Again, I'd skip this and go non-variant human or half-elf in order to get your charisma higher and/or increase your strength and dexterity for reasonable medium armor. Lower your constitution is necessary. Far better not being hit than having a few hit points of damage.

For deception (against NPCs, as you really can't keep this up long term with PCs you are adventuring with)... any type of reasonable background or skill set works. You can't use guidance or enhance ability for these. Spellcasting is obvious and most people immediately react badly to casting in social situations or immediately assume deception (charms, disguise self, etc.). Just try for a higher charisma and rely on a good background, actually having skills or abilities of the role and good roleplaying. I wouldn't try a cleric of another faith as it is trivial for someone to test you (i.e. cast a domain spell). Merchants, sages, scribes, guild members, etc. work better.

[Specter]

Magic Initiate and Shillelagh are not important for infiltration. Take Skilled, or Actor, these help.

A level of rogue, as usual, is great to expertise Deception and Insight (I believe).

Also Disguise/Alter Self are important if you don't have a disguise kit.

[Addaran]

BW022 got good points for the problems of passing for a cleric of another faith. Depending on the DM, you'll probably need your holy symbole, say your deitie's name, etc.


A few general issues...

Many DMs won't permit evil characters, nor do most groups like having characters lying to them. Further, it is pretty much impossible to bluff your way long term in a party. Unless you are in an evil party or have a heck of a good reason to be working together... this isn't likely to end well.

Nor will most players enjoy being forced to role-play good or neutral characters staying with/not killing/not turning in, etc. an evil character or one who lies to them continuously.


Having a secret identity or dark past secret is not unheard of in D&D parties. At long as it's not active lying that hurts them or stealing, they shouldn't complain.
An evil character isn't more likely to cause problem in the group then any character that doesn't match the group's concept. (law vs chaos, good vs evil, magic vs anti-magic, empire vs rebels, etc)
In my last game, we were a thief's guild on the run. When two players died, they made dwarfs instead that were against stealing. They caused more problems to the general group and imposing on the AT's fun then if an evil (but smart) character joined us.

Having a reason to be in the campaign is extremely easy for evil character too.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Anyone in the player in the party with half a brain will know you are an evil cleric the second you cast a spell or they hear you praying away. Even if you sneak away to pray each night and could cast without your unholy symbol, most DMs and players will resent the heck out of making perception, insight, religion, and other rolls against a PC or goofy DM rulings that "your character wouldn't know this".

You know the OP nowhere says he plans on deceiving the other players in his post, right? You're leaping to assumptions here. It's entirely possible he's only worried about fooling NPCs.

[Gastronomie]

The concept itself is interesting, but using an Evil-aligned character requires approval by both the DM and other players. This isn't written in the rules - rather it's table-talk manners.

One way to use it is to not use Shilleleh (or however it's spelled, it's not even a word) and focus damage on cleric cantrips that use WIS to attack, or alternatively, the Chill Touch you get from being a Death Cleric.

If the DM is generous, he may allow you to use CHA as your Cleric casting stat. At least I would allow it. Again, consult your DM for this, but it certainly is worth asking.

[Drackolus]

And if the DM won't allow cha-cleric casting, they may still go for death favored soul. Also goes around the problem of focus (only need an arcane focus).

That said, a death god probably (almost, if not, without exception) would not choose anyone but the most bloodthirsty and murderous person to be a favored soul for them. A regular companion will find out, so unless your character's idea of death is oddly specific and you're more hiding it for social stigma than the real intent to deceive, I would agree with the strong recommendation to not make this character in a non-evil group.

In an evil group, this character is awesome and you should definitely go for it.

In that case, I recommend going sorc 1/rogue 1/sorc x for favored soul, then going cha/dex/con, and just sticking to a rapier.

that said
Divine strike makes melee attacks meet the effectiveness of sacred flame, but really don't make them exceed. A regular (non-war) cleric can absolutely use sacred flame or, in your case, chill touch. I made a (ironically) life cleric with m.initiate:druid for shillelagh and goodberry, and I realized that sacred flame really isn't better than my melee attacks, so don't sweat it. When you break it down, clerics suck if they aren't using spell slots or channel divinity, and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. So, that can at least save you m.initiate. Granted, you still need to consider ac, and unless you want to be a hill dwarf (very very good choice) or pump str to 15 or dex to 14, you will either have 10 less speed or 16 ac (ring mail + shield). Chain mail can give you 18 for 13 str, but that's a lot of stat difference. Though, you may use ranged attacks all day, so your ac becomes less important.