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Avenging Viper
2007-07-02, 01:32 AM
I don't know if this has been done before, but I've been studying up on the geisha lately and I think it would be cool to have one in a campaign, so here we go.

Geisha of the Bladed Fan

"Geisha are not courtesans. And we are not wives. We sell our skills, not our bodies. We create another secret world, a place only of beauty. The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha is to be judged as a moving work of art." ~ Mameha, Memoirs of a Geisha

Geisha, unlike the common bard, are experts of entertainment and entrancement. Their training is rigorous, producing artisans of astounding grace and artistic prowess. Becoming a geisha requires a sharp mind, as well as physical ability, for geishas are also trained in the arts of conversation and dialogue, and so they make excellent diplomats in their own demure way. A geisha under threat, though, can be a terrible enemy. Several schools have begun to teach their students the art of a deadly weapon called the "bladed fan" and the strength and grace acquired through their training makes them more dangerous than they appear. Geisha work by carefull insinuation and planning. Most of those who choose to become geisha are rogues or bards, but sorcerers and wizards sometimes choose this path as well, particularly those who specialize in enchantment spells. Occaisionally a fighter or a cleric will be drawn into this path of life. Paladins and barbarians almost never become geisha, as the geisha lifestyle is too chaotic for the taste of paladins and too subtle for barbarians.

Hit Die: 1d6

Requirements:
Gender: Female
Skills: +8 Perform (dance), +4 Diplomacy, +4 Sense Motive
Special: The character must be accepted as an apprentice by an existing geisha house, to which she owes her loyalty until reaching the 10th level of the class herself.

Class Skills:
Balance (dex), Bluff (cha), Concentration (con), Craft (int), Diplomacy (cha), Escape Artist (dex), Gatherin Information (cha), Knowledge (local) (int), Listen (wis), Move Silently (dex), Perform (cha), Profession (wis), Search (int), Sense Motive (wis), Sleight of Hand (dex), Spot (wis)
Skill points: 6 + Int modifier

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Ability|Spells

1|+0|+0|+2|+2|Mesmerizing Gaze 1/day, Initiate of the Bladed Fan|
2|+1|+0|+3|+3|Conversationalist +2, Patron|
3|+2|+1|+3|+3|Persuasive Art|+1 existing spell casting class
4|+3|+1|+4|+4|Mesmerizing Gaze 2/day, Performer's Mask|
5|+3|+1|+4|+4|Expert of the Bladed Fan, Hypnotic Gaze 1/day|
6|+4|+2|+5|+5|Conversationalist +4|+1 existing spell casting class
7|+5|+2|+5|+5|Mezmerizing Gaze 3/day|
8|+6|+2|+6|+6|Suggestive Mask|
9|+6|+3|+6|+6|Mistress of the Bladed Fan, Hypnotic Gaze 2/day|+1 existing spell casting class
10|+7|+3|+7|+7|Mezmerizing Gaze 4/day, Conversationalist +6, Mistress of the Okiya|
[/table]

Class Features:

Geisha Abilities: In order to advance in her levels, a geisha must pay her house Mistress 1 gp x the geisha class levels she has per week (due quarterly) in order to remain in the household. If a geisha is ejected from a household, she must either earn her way back in or find another household willing to take her before she can advance in the class again. After achieving 10th level in this class, she is freed from her obligations to her mother house and may start a geisha house of her own.

Bard Abilities: Geisha levels stack with bard levels for bardic abilities such as bardic knowledge.

Mesmerizing Gaze: One of a geisha's most powerful weapons are her eyes. Rumors about that geisha possess mystical powers able to stop another person in their tracks using their gaze alone. Mesmerizing gaze acts as a hold person spell cast by a bard of the character's level, without spell components and as a gaze attack. The duration of the effect is doubled, provided the geisha can maintain eye contact with the target the entire time. If the geisha cannot make eye contact with the target (either from concealment, blindness, or other effect) this ability fails. The DC of the ability is 10+geisha level+CHA modifier.

Initiate of the Bladed Fan: While geisha are primarily artisans, it is sometimes necessary for them to defend themselves. Each geisha recieves training in the use of the bladed fan, a weapon that can be easily concealed as well as wielded easily with the geisha's dance style, and upon their debute as a geisha they are given their first bladed fan. This weapon appears to be a simple dancing fan, but by releasing a catch on the fan's grip, small blades spring out from the fan's spines creating a deadly and effective weapon. All geisha are proficient with this weapon and at 1st level they acquire Weapon Focus: Bladed Fan as a feat, and her fan is considered a +1 magical item. If a geisha loses her fan, or it is destroyed, she must return to a geisha house to acquire another one.

{table]Bladed Fan|1d4 (small)|1d6 (medium)|1d8 (large)|18-20/x2|1 lb.|Light weapon|Slashing[/table]
Bladed fans require a successful Spot check at DC 25 to reveal them as weapons. If the Spot check is failed, they are assumed to be a normal bamboo and silk fan.

Conversationalist:
A geisha is a master of conversation, both in speech and in reading the clues her audience and patrons unwittingly reveal about themselves. As such, at 2nd level she gains +2 to Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Bluff. This bonus is increased to +4 at 6th level and +6 at 10th level.

Patron:
At 2nd level, a geisha is able to acquire a special patron who can assist her in her work at times. The level of this patron is determined at the number of ranks in the Geisha class + the geisha's CHA modifier. This patron may come from any walk of life, but he or she is wealthy without question and will often assist the geisha as much as they are able to in a variety of ways, though they will occaisionally ask a favor in return as well as the prestige of having a talented geisha at their beck and call.

Persuasive Art:
Once per day the geisha may add her ranks in a Perform skill to a Diplomacy check in order to influence a person or group of people in her favor.

Performer's Mask
More highly trained geisha have become experts at hiding their true feelings, even from those able to spy upon their inner most thoughts magically. At 4th level a Geisha gains immunity to detect thoughts.

Expert of the Bladed Fan:
Geisha continue to train with their signature weapon as well as their training in dance and music, and so more experienced geisha learn how to best utilize its particular qualities. A geisha of this level gains Weapon Specilization: Bladed Fan, and her bladed fan is considered a +2 magical item.

Hypnotic Gaze
A geisha become more experienced, their powers of control over others increase. Higher level geisha are not only able to stop others in their tracks, but also to sublty utilize dominate person as a caster of your level, using it as a gaze attack. The geisha must be able to make eye contact with the subject to use this ability. The DC of this ability is 10+geisha level+CHA modifier.

Suggestive Mask:
Some of the highest level geisha are not only able to block others from spying on their inner thoughts, they are actually able to implant false thoughts for others to find. A geisha with this ability is immune to detect thoughts, but she is able to sense when this ability is being used on her and send the user false thoughts of her own division. The DC check for realizing these thoughts are false is 10+ the geisha's class level + her charisma modifier. She also gains a +10 to Bluff checks to defeat a Sense Motive check.

Mistress of the Bladed Fan: Those who have been geisha for a long time are said to not only be masters of their chosen weapon, but also able to bestow their fans with wondrous powers. A geisha with this ability gains Greater Two Weapon Fighting as a feat for the purposes of weilding two fans at once regardless of wether she has the prerequisits. Her fans are also treated as though they were +3 magical weapons. In addition, she is able to confer either the Flaming, Frost, or Shock ability on her fans, but only one ability at time and she must designate which in the beginning round of combat.

Mistress of the Okiya:
A geisha who has attained this level is considered a Mistress of the art. She gains Leadership as a feat, and is able to start her own geisha household. A Mistress of the Okiya benefits monetarially from the other geisha in her household, and for each geisha in her retinue she gains 1 gold piece x the protege geisha's level per week. At this level, she is also able to begin crafting bladed fans for her proteges and herself (utilizing a Craft (fan) check) and no longer needs to return to a geisha house in order to replace a lost or damaged fan.

Playing a Geisha

Geisha usually travel in pairs or in groups, but now and then a geisha will travel with an adventuring party to some end. Her house mistress might have sent her on an errand or on a quest, or she may owe some favor to one of the adventuring party members. Or perhaps there is greater wealth to be earned in travel. What is certain is that wherever a geisha might go, she is never free of the obligations to her household until she is a Mistress of the Okiya herself.

Geisha often refer to the members of their household by family titles, whether they are any relation or not. Other geisha of the same status are referred to as "Sisters". The mistress of the house is always called "Mother", and on the occaision that there are any of her "Sisters" still living in the house, they are addressed as "Auntie". There is always some rivalry between geisha "sisters", as competition for clients and the favor of the "Mother" can be fierce, though most manage to get along.

Lysander
2007-07-02, 02:10 AM
I like it! Inventive. Being able to give the fans frost, flame, or shock seems a bit out of character though. I assume the money made as Mistress of the Okiya is weekly?

Avenging Viper
2007-07-02, 02:50 AM
Thanks. :smallsmile:

Yeah, the Mistress of the Okiya thing is /week, thanks for catching that.

The Fire, Frost, Shock thing is a little bit outside of character, but I couldn't think of a more fitting weapon ability to put there. Keen would have been good, I suppose, but it just didn't seem to have the necessary flair. I figured adding elemental damage would add to the theatrics of the attack.

Matthew
2007-07-02, 07:22 AM
There are a few Geisha Classes knocking around the boards. Usually they follow the false notion that Geisha = Assassin, so it's quite nice to see that this one is not laying emphasis on that possibility. You might want to give this Prestige Class a more specific name to avoid confusion, such as Geisha of the Bladed Fan or somesuch thing.

Lysander
2007-07-02, 09:41 AM
What if Mistress of the Bladed fan let her use her fan as a magic dancing weapon instead? The image of a geisha having a deadly fan artfully soaring about her is kinda cool.

Athelian
2007-07-02, 10:39 AM
This weapon...

The bladed fan? It may be armed, but it is still a construct of bamboo and silk, correct? And the only metallic parts are the blades that come from within it?

If that is the case, would it not have a negative modifier to resist sunder attempts? Just as thought.

As well, do you think there should be a save for the Suggestive Mask ability? For the caster of detect thoughts to disbelieve the false information he is receiving? Say, DC 15 + The Geisha's level?

Just my suggestions... I like the class, though, you've done a great job.

Lakoda
2007-07-02, 11:31 AM
I really like this. Well done!

One minor thing, in your description of the Mistress of the Okiya you point out how the Mistress has an income based on her followers levels per week. Naturally I assume that being a Geisha (lvls 1-9) would require you to be a member of a house of a Mistress. So, if I were to allow this in my campaign I would add the following to requirement for Geisha's level 1-9:
. A base amount of time required at the house of your Mistress (I would go down as you gained levels, but it's your class).
. You have to pay the 1 gold piece x you geisha level per week. (For ease of play, I would require this be due quarterly or something like that)
. A requirement for acceptable into the PrC would be acceptance into an already established Mistress' house; this would be were you must spend X amount of your time and work, and whom you would pay weekly. (Once level 10 you would be able to train others in the class as you describe)

Just my thought, I really do like that you've done. There aren't nearly enough fun PrCs for Bards like this.

Human Paragon 3
2007-07-02, 11:51 AM
Adding perform to diplomacy might be a little strong, it essentially doubles your diplomacy ranks and people on this board have detailed how strong diplomacy can be (defeat all enemies without having to fight them). I might just make it so you can use perform INSTEAD of diplomacy, so your skill points are doing double duty.

elliott20
2007-07-02, 12:10 PM
people need to stop focusing on the fan. It's clearly not the focus of this PrC.

I like this PrC. Most Geisha PrCs I've seen on the board are all the false interpretation of it pushed by games like Shogun Total War.

This class actually feels like it's a REAL geisha class.

Matthew
2007-07-02, 01:27 PM
Well, the War Fan is the odd piece in this Prestige Class, so it's not surprising that it will be mentioned (though I don't think people are focusing on it particularly). Honestly, I don't see why it is there at all, really, except as a nod in the direction of Shogun: Total War. As was pointed out in all the Threads that attempted to create that Class, that is actually an assassin disguised as a Geisha. This is a Geisha with a War Fan.

Avenging Viper
2007-07-02, 03:33 PM
Well, the War Fan is the odd piece in this Prestige Class, so it's not surprising that it will be mentioned (though I don't think people are focusing on it particularly). Honestly, I don't see why it is there at all, really, except as a nod in the direction of Shogun: Total War. As was pointed out in all the Threads that attempted to create that Class, that is actually an assassin disguised as a Geisha. This is a Geisha with a War Fan.

Actually, I've never played Shogun: Total War.

The fan is more of an attempt to make the class versatile: give bards another combat option, and make it not quite so sucky for a fighter or other combat oriented class. It's not supposed to be the focus of the class, and keeping with the flavor of the geisha, it should be the last resort if diplomacy and the mind effects fail.


Adding perform to diplomacy might be a little strong, it essentially doubles your diplomacy ranks and people on this board have detailed how strong diplomacy can be (defeat all enemies without having to fight them). I might just make it so you can use perform INSTEAD of diplomacy, so your skill points are doing double duty.

Basically it's a once per day "I win" card at the higher levels, which isn't that bad. Since the class is Diplomacy based to begin with, it's most likely that Diplomacy will have more or equal ranks to Perform (dance), so substituting Perform for Diplomacy would yield either less of a result or the same. To balance it out, though, maybe adding 1/2 of the Perform ranks instead of the whole lot of them?


One minor thing, in your description of the Mistress of the Okiya you point out how the Mistress has an income based on her followers levels per week. Naturally I assume that being a Geisha (lvls 1-9) would require you to be a member of a house of a Mistress. So, if I were to allow this in my campaign I would add the following to requirement for Geisha's level 1-9:
. A base amount of time required at the house of your Mistress (I would go down as you gained levels, but it's your class).
. You have to pay the 1 gold piece x you geisha level per week. (For ease of play, I would require this be due quarterly or something like that)
. A requirement for acceptable into the PrC would be acceptance into an already established Mistress' house; this would be were you must spend X amount of your time and work, and whom you would pay weekly. (Once level 10 you would be able to train others in the class as you describe)

I like the idea of have a special requirement for entrance to the class and paying the gold quarterly. I had meant to add something like that about the gold in there, but completely glossed over it while I was typing apparently.


The bladed fan? It may be armed, but it is still a construct of bamboo and silk, correct? And the only metallic parts are the blades that come from within it?

If that is the case, would it not have a negative modifier to resist sunder attempts? Just as thought.

As well, do you think there should be a save for the Suggestive Mask ability? For the caster of detect thoughts to disbelieve the false information he is receiving? Say, DC 15 + The Geisha's level?


The fan can be constructed out of any number of special materials that might add to the hardness, it just depends on the Mistress of the Okiya that fashions it. A 1st level basic fan would definately be vulnerable to sunder attempts, but for later levels it's possible that your house Mistress could assign you a quest to procure special materials for a new fan more fitting to your rank. The point is that to a casual observer it appears to be nothing more than an ordinary fan, not a weapon.

I waffle on adding a save to the Suggestive Mask ability, but it might equal it out a little.


What if Mistress of the Bladed fan let her use her fan as a magic dancing weapon instead? The image of a geisha having a deadly fan artfully soaring about her is kinda cool.

That's an idea, I'll have to think about that.

Lemur
2007-07-02, 03:41 PM
This is probably gonna sound really weird, but you should remove the "Female" requirement.

Okay, okay, hear me out. The Geisha is a concept from Japanese culture, so it makes sense to look at the class with other elements from Japanese culture. One of the things you see occasionally is a man who makes himself look like a woman, generally because that's just how he is, or possibly for some other reason. I could probably provide numerous examples, but go see Zatoichi to get an idea what I mean if I'm still not making any sense.

Also, the brain destroying factor of having a male geisha is too good to pass up.

Matthew
2007-07-02, 04:03 PM
Why bother with the War Fan, though? Does it really add enough to this Class to make it attractive to a Fighter or other Melee Character? It seems kind of pointless to me, but I don't particularly object to its inclusion.

Lemur: Oh man, the male/female thing always comes up. There is plenty of justification for Male 'Geisha' (indeed Female Geisha appear to have been a late innovation). There is precedent in D&D for gender restricted Classes, but you're probably right that this should be open to either gender, really.

Avenging Viper
2007-07-02, 04:28 PM
Why bother with the War Fan, though? Does it really add enough to this Class to make it attractive to a Fighter or other Melee Character? It seems kind of pointless to me, but I don't particularly object to its inclusion.

If nothing else it adds to the geisha ability to defend herself in odd situations by giving her a weapon that few people would suspect. When a party has to disarm before entering a specific place, who is going to deprive a geisha of an ordinary looking fan, especially since she requires it in order to do her job properly? And it's geared more towards bards, anyway. Though after building a bard, rogue, and fighter with this class to see how it would work, it actually makes for an interesting fighter build as well. And I just like it. I think it's an interesting and not unprecedented twist on fan dancing. Not to mention an interesting component when combined with the Cloaked Dancer's sudden strike.


As for the male/female thing, the male geisha are called taikomochi or houkan and they don't perform the same function as female geisha, nor do they have the same lifestyle. The taikomochi are storytellers and actors, while the geisha are the dancers and musicians. This class is based off the female geisha, which is why I'm restricting it to female characters. I might make a taikomochi class later on, though.

V- Except that geisha aren't generally trained in the use of daggers, but they are trained in the use of dancing fans.

Matthew
2007-07-02, 05:10 PM
Well, the Geisha would probably be just as well served by a Dagger. The War Fan just strikes me as an odd 'add on'. I don't really care whether you keep it or dump it, but I'm not yet convinced of the intuitiveness of its inclusion.

The thing is, Geisha translates pretty literally as 'Arts Person', and has no absolute gender specificity. You can read about it a bit here: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/taikomochi.html
I'm no expert, mind, so maybe this information is incorrect, but it appears that at some point there were Onna Geisha and Otoko Geisha. It's just a suggestion, though, if you want this Class to be gender specific I have no real objection. The only reason I would suggest it is because somebody will eventually ask if they can be.

Avenging Viper
2007-07-02, 05:25 PM
I've already done a good bit of research on both ends, and while the term geisha is ambiguous, the function isn't. Male geisha and female geisha do very different things. The fans and the gaze attacks would be very out of character for a male geisha, for instance, as male geisha don't dance or use fans and it's not their allure that they trade on. The purpose of a male geisha at a tea house is mostly to tell humorous stories and create an interplay with the female geisha for the guests' amusement. It would be unheard of a for a male geisha to take on any of the female roles except as a joke. The taikomochi have their own interesting areas as well, but they wouldn't fit very well with this class.

Matthew
2007-07-02, 05:41 PM
Well, precise function changes over time and locality, but apparently Houkan originated 'from the 'Ji Sect of Pure Land Buddhism' ...which focused on dancing.' So, I guess there might be some precedence for that. Fans, maybe not so much.

[Edit]
Give that article a read and let me know if any of it accords with your research.

Jannex
2007-07-02, 05:49 PM
I don't have any particular problem with the bladed fan (I think it's kind of a neat idea, actually), but if you wanted another option for the geisha to have a "hidden weapon" that was thematically appropriate, you might consider sharpened hair-sticks. (You know how geishas are generally depicted with their hair bound up and fastened with two sticks at the back? Those.) It's a fun idea I've toyed with for female pseudo-Japanese characters, and might be worth a look.

I really like the feel and flavor of this PrC; I think it does well in capturing the essense of the concept. I'd be very interested to see it in play.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-07-03, 01:39 AM
One thing I just noticed Viper, you should list the DC for the Mesmerizing Gaze and Hypnotic Gaze abilities. One could assume that the save for these is DC=Cha Modifier+10+5 (for Hypnotic)/+3 (For Mesmerizing). That one makes sense but they could also think it's DC=10+Geisha level+Cha Modifier. Some clarification would be helpful

Avenging Viper
2007-07-03, 02:09 AM
^- Fixed, at 10+geisha level+CHA mod.

qube
2007-07-03, 08:32 AM
what happens to spellcasting when it is used in combination with a class without spellcasting?
(Itm thinking ninja / geisha: the infiltrator assasin)

for items,
- what about normal fans ? (in Kung Fu they can be used as weapons (perhaps something like if you have weapon finesse, you may use narmal fas to deal 1d3 blund damage.) )

- what about clothing, a bonus on diplomacy and suck, but (perhaps) a penaly on speed

Lemur
2007-07-03, 10:14 AM
Perhaps I should've made myself more clear. I was talking about a male who uses woman's clothing and makeup, and essentially acts like a woman. I suppose if you want to get technical, you could probably consider his "gender" to be female at that point, even if his sex is male, but that sort of thing can get confusing.

Actually, now I think about it, change the requirement to something like Gender: Female or Disguise: 8 ranks.

What did you think I meant about "brain destroying factor" if not this, anyway?

Avenging Viper
2007-07-03, 03:27 PM
what happens to spellcasting when it is used in combination with a class without spellcasting?
(Itm thinking ninja / geisha: the infiltrator assasin)

for items,
- what about normal fans ? (in Kung Fu they can be used as weapons (perhaps something like if you have weapon finesse, you may use narmal fas to deal 1d3 blund damage.) )

- what about clothing, a bonus on diplomacy and suck, but (perhaps) a penaly on speed


Someone who classes into the geisha from a non spell casting class, doesn't get any spells, as with every other PrC that adds +1 to an existing spell casting class.

Per dnd rules, normal fans are too delicate to be used as weapons to any real effect. Even in Kung Fu, they normally use a type of bladed fan.

As for clothing, light armor could probably be worn under a kimono (the amount of padding properly worn under one of those things is mind boggling anyway), but there are other options. One of the guys play testing this class for me is using silk swaddling from the Sandstorm book as a kimono, for instance.


Perhaps I should've made myself more clear. I was talking about a male who uses woman's clothing and makeup, and essentially acts like a woman. I suppose if you want to get technical, you could probably consider his "gender" to be female at that point, even if his sex is male, but that sort of thing can get confusing.

Actually, now I think about it, change the requirement to something like Gender: Female or Disguise: 8 ranks.

What did you think I meant about "brain destroying factor" if not this, anyway?

Given several important factors of geisha training, a geisha mistress would know whether one of her charges was male or female. It would be a prereq to be accepted and really there would be no way to dodge it. They simply wouldn't train a male. However, a doppleganger, who can appear to be whatever gender it wants, or a male afflicted with a temporary change in gender would be able to take ranks in this class as long as he/she remained female.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-07-04, 12:17 AM
As for clothing, light armor could probably be worn under a kimono (the amount of padding properly worn under one of those things is mind boggling anyway), but there are other options. One of the guys play testing this class for me is using silk swaddling from the Sandstorm book as a kimono, for instance.

Silk swaddling really does seem like it'd fit this class best. :smallwink:

In any case I know that Paizo has published several "masterwork" (so to speak) clothings and perfumes that provide a bonus on diplomacy but I don't know how to go about pricing such things myself.

Reinboom
2007-07-04, 05:22 AM
This isn't quite strict to the geisha I believe if you are going to keep it female only. Given the rigidness of the profession, it is missing a few "entry" set ups (starting at around 5 to prepare to become, and similar). Also, the names of the skills are a bit strange to me given that a full geisha normally wears very little in terms of 'masks' or much of anything.
Although, the suggestions that would come from this would be hindering, probably, a bit too much; might I suggest instead you open the class up a bit more to not befall this, by allowing other style of performers, or the onnagata?
Although, normally, kabuki oriented (though of course, they would show up elsewhere, just not to standard), given the unrigidness of the class- I believe this would be fair.
And somewhat amusing.:smalltongue:

Avenging Viper
2007-07-04, 02:45 PM
Also, the names of the skills are a bit strange to me given that a full geisha normally wears very little in terms of 'masks'

The term is figurative. Geisha makeup is meant to be stylistically reminescent of a noh mask, because the highest form of geisha dance comes directly from that school. Also, it is almost literally a sort of mask, because of the way it's applied. Geisha leave about half an inch of bare flesh around their hairline and the cross hatch pattern at the nape of the neck so that the effect is like looking at a living mask, with a subtle reminder of the bare flesh underneath. Even older giesha who are past the maiko stage have had to pass through that part of the training, and still wear it on special occaisions, so the mindset is still the same. And also, you could say that a geisha at work is always wearing a mask whether it be literal make-up or a figurative state of mind because they have to subsume much of their own personalty in order to conform to a specific role. Since we're translating this into a fantasy setting, it's not a big leap in order to make that ability a little more mystical and fantastic.


Given the rigidness of the profession, it is missing a few "entry" set ups (starting at around 5 to prepare to become, and similar).

And I didn't want to include too many prereqs, partially because some of the major ones would be risque or depend too heavily on the players knowledge of the culture, and also because I don't want to make the class requirements too cumbersome. This class should be playable by someone who doesn't have the slightest inkling of real Japanese culture. But then again, someone who does know the culture can play this class fairly accurately with little trouble.

Lakoda
2007-07-06, 12:46 PM
I've been thinking about this for a few days now. I think you did a really good job with this, and you definitely know what you are talking about. Anyways, I was thinking...this might work really well as a base class. This would allow for some advancement after you reach Mistress of the Okiya or make a really good cap stone ability.

Matthew
2007-07-06, 11:27 PM
V- Except that geisha aren't generally trained in the use of daggers, but they are trained in the use of dancing fans.
Just noticed this edit. Geisha may well be trained in the use of Dancing Fans, but does that translate to them being trained in the use of them as weapons? I don't see why a Geisha would be any less likely to be proficient with a Dagger than a Wizard.
Anyway, though, it makes no difference to me really. I just don't think it's particularly intuitive. For a Class that otherwise does such a nice job of representing Geisha it just seems like a Total War throwback (even though you have never played the game).

Pink
2007-07-07, 03:17 AM
I like this class idea. It's done very well, perfect flavor and nicely executed. that said, I'm going to make a number of suggestions.

Bardic Abilities: this needs more clarity. Is it just bardic knowledge? is it inspire courage? Is it bardic usages per day? can you learn new songs or do just the old songs learned advance? All in all, I would suggest being very careful about this part though.

Initiate of the Bladed Fan(and further extensions): I would suggest you do not give free magic enhancements bonuses with this line. It's quite simply unfair. Even the kensai, the prc that highlights in doing so requires a exp cost for this class enhancement of weapons. The soulknife gets it for free because he's a one trick pony and the blade is part of his mind. proficiency and weapon focus is fine, weapon specialization or some slight sneak attack or bonus weapon finesse effect with it are fine, however i suggest staying away from the free magic bit. There are other ways to level the field with the fan I think.

Patron: I think a better working of this is the patron has the wealth of a character that level instead of is a character of that level. A nobleman could be very rich, however that doesn't mean he can smash heads in and such. It might make DMs feel more at ease knowing it's more of a financial thing than a beefed up cohort of doom or something.

Conversationalist: You should make these bonuses more specific. Being a subtle conversationalist shouldn't give you bonuses on feinting or being able to spot a feint so to say. I suggest restriction to conversational tasks only, which is probably the nature of the ability.

Persuasive Art: I think a better way of doing this would be having the option of making a performance check before attempting a diplomacy check, and using the resulting performance check as the ranks in diplomacy maybe. It requires an actual performance, therefore the time and situation for a performance to be made, so it's a bit more tricky for such a potentially huge boost. Not sure about my suggestion but just blatantly adding such a huge bonus without actually requiring a performance seems cheap.

Suggestive Mask: I like it except for the +10 bonus. this is a class that already has a rather hefty bonus to bluff, is bound to be packed with charisma, likely to have bluffed maxed out too. It does not need a +10. Sending false thoughts may very well be enough. If you want an extra ability, add something like, ' They are able to send 'suggestions' through false thoughts in this way.' perhaps.

Anyway, just my two cents on it.