The anti-party

[Calibus]

So in my group I have been assigning nemesis' (nemisi?) To my players characters. (A bug bear our warlock wrestled, Iarno from phandelver, a wraith that escaped the party, and one more in due time)

Now my real question is, i want this to be like the anti-party. A group that always loves to fight the party and keep them engaged. Whats the best way to make sure they all survive or should i use some dues ex-machina nonsense?

The anti-party is just a common troupe of done-wrong enemies.

[Notafish]

If they are going head-to-head with the party in combat on a regular basis, then I think they need to be very willing to retreat (and also have the same save vs. death abilities that PCs get). I'd have more action-at-a-distance (PCs fighting hirelings rather than the main anti-party) and/or limit direct interaction between the two groups to situations where combat between the two groups is not a good or lethal option unless I wanted there to be a chance that a nemesis would be captured or killed. (festivals, parleys, prisons...) Admittedly, it might be tricky to fit a wraith into many social situations.

I'd also consider the species of antagonism that I'd want to foster. Are the groups seeking the same objective, working as agents of opposing forces, or actively seeking each others' defeat? That might change the degree to which the groups will seek to murder each other on sight and open different options for interactions.

[LaserFace]

Rivals can be cool, but you have to do it right. If you haven't already, you need time to properly characterize them as a force working together. This could happen in the midst of an adventure or in a neutral setting. But, if you introduce them directly as a threat to overcome, you need to be ready for every last one of them to die.

Don't let combat happen unless you're ready for it to be lethal and you're ready for PCs to win it. Prolonging a rivalry through Deus Ex Machina because you're not "done yet" with your NPCs will look really sloppy and your players will feel cheated.

If you want to hang onto them a while longer, you need to find ways to avert combat. Like not_a_fish suggests, I think you can stay away from a lethal encounter by keeping things at a distance or indirect. Given the kinds of characters you're describing, you might have to tackle this from unusual angles; not so simple as bumping into them at a tavern, where they gloat they're going to win more treasure than the PCs. But, I think you should still think along these principles; further characterize them through interactions that doesn't involve people/things dying.

If you want fleeing to be an option, be aware of your players and their ability to pursue and kill. Let the rivals have a reasonable escape plan. And, don't freak if some die anyway. This could raise tension because the remaining enemies will be back for revenge. Alternatively, someone left behind while the rest fled could resent his former allies and might even help the party out of spite.

[Joe the Rat]

Numbers. The Legion of Doom/Sinister More-Than-Five/Antagonist Inc./Player Party Revenge Squad should outnumber the party. That allows a measure of accidental attrition, and if the party bested them once, they can probably do so again. not-a-fish's recommendation for Hirelings is a good one - this gives you more hands to enact ambushes and set up death traps.

They've seen some of the party's tricks and tactics, and can plan to avoid or counteract them. Oil and ball bearings for the charger. Incorporeal movement to get behind the front lines and hit the squishy. This can get your players to grow a bit, and try different strategies, but I suspect that would just encourage them to not leave survivors in the future.

[MaxWilson]

So in my group I have been assigning nemesis' (nemisi?) To my players characters. (A bug bear our warlock wrestled, Iarno from phandelver, a wraith that escaped the party, and one more in due time)

Now my real question is, i want this to be like the anti-party. A group that always loves to fight the party and keep them engaged. Whats the best way to make sure they all survive or should i use some dues ex-machina nonsense?

I can think of two ways:

(1) Anti-party is vastly stronger than the PCs but has fun toying with them. At the extremes, this could be a lich who enjoys fighting the PCs while handicapping himself in various ways ("I only get to use my bare hands and no spells except Misty Step!"). Even if they win, the lich just reforms at his phylactery. If they lose, the lich rewards himself in some way by e.g. destroying one of their magic items, or carving his name on someone's forehead, or Bestowing a Curse that gives someone permanent diarrhea or something. Even if you don't go to the extremes, this could be a single powerful or sneaky individual (I used a Shadow Monk 7/Rogue 2) who will gloatingly ambush the player characters at just the wrong moment and take their best stuff right when they think they've just beat the adventure. Think of Belloq, Indiana Jones' nemesis in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

As a bonus, having a Belloq around prevents the PCs from using the five-minute work day. Instead they will save some juice in order to be able to kill Belloq, if he shows up; but if he knows Augury, he won't show up unless he's in a position to win the fight. You can fully justify the fact that he never ambushes them unless they're low on spells/HP.

(2) Or, maybe the anti-party is weaker than the PCs, but they have a powerful patron akin to #1. (Maybe he is a vampire lord and they are all his children/minions, which he is trying to level up?) All it takes is for the powerful patron to know Revivify/Raise Dead/etc. and have a way to get their bodies back when they die. Maybe he's even got Clones of them all on tap. In this variant, the players get the satisfaction of occasionally beating/killing the anti-PCs and taking their stuff, which just fuels the hatred the anti-PCs feel for the PCs next time.

[Calibus]

Had a chat with a friend who is dming a different session. He jokingly poked at the idea of having the owlbear being a druid and can transform into humanoid forms/classes. I thought it was an interesting concept, your thoughts?

Also thanks for the awesome ideas! I was gonna have all the rivals be a group who just wants payback and happens to have a singular ideal: make it difficult for the party. The wraith can make undead specters so it might appear and surprise the party by showing up after the aftermath of a bandit ambush and make things more annoying. Owlbear might get plate and be their vangaurd. Might die. But it was a beast anyways.

[Flickerdart]

So in my group I have been assigning nemesis' (nemisi?) To my players characters.
Nemeses.


Now my real question is, i want this to be like the anti-party. A group that always loves to fight the party and keep them engaged. Whats the best way to make sure they all survive or should i use some dues ex-machina nonsense?
The great thing about monstrous enemies is that they are frequently interchangeable in the eyes of the players. If they killed Krorg the Bugbear, his cousin Grorg the Bugbear will soon be on their trail.

Not all fights are to the death, or even combat. If the PCs find the anti-party spreading rumours about them in the next city, they can't draw steel and beat them down without the guards getting involved. The anti-party can also hire mercs - have the bugbear show up with a squad of weaker bugbears, command from afar, and run away when the bugbearlings are killed.

[CursedRhubarb]

Something that could be a lot of fun to play with would be a traveling bard that plagues the party, constantly showing up where they go, be it a town or the BBEG's pantry for some reason. The bard would do things like spread exaggerated stories of their deeds or intends, twisted to make the party sound suspicious or incompitent, without actually telling lies thus making time in town awkward, loudly playing silly songs and poking fun at the party as they travel ( think Sir Robin's minstrel from Monty Python's Holy Grail), or tuning an instrument while the party tries to sneak around in non critically dangerous places. Attempts to get rid of said bard would have a tough time ever working until high levels because it's actually an ancient copper dragon that loves to masquerade as a bard collecting stories and has become fascinated with the adventuring group.

[Vogonjeltz]

So in my group I have been assigning nemesis' (nemisi?) To my players characters. (A bug bear our warlock wrestled, Iarno from phandelver, a wraith that escaped the party, and one more in due time)

Now my real question is, i want this to be like the anti-party. A group that always loves to fight the party and keep them engaged. Whats the best way to make sure they all survive or should i use some dues ex-machina nonsense?

The anti-party is just a common troupe of done-wrong enemies.

If you want something along the lines of He-Man, GI Joe, Transformers, Etcetera, I'd just be sure to include some mooks who are used to rescue downed characters, and of course provide them plot armor allowing them to survive or merely be knocked out from otherwise lethal hits.

[MBControl]

I would use a technique they use in Wrestling storylines all the time, which is such a coincidence because it's real.

Often times before a big match like Wrestlmania or the like, in order to build up hype for the match, they create a bunch of conflict without actual fighting or "combat" in order to not spoil the big match.

They do this in many ways.
- run interference, the anti team might lock the dungeon door behind you

- Combat by proxy, they hire mercs to attack you. On the flip side to that, the anti party may attack your close allies.

- They make a big "shoot" speech, the anti-party may spread nasty rumors around the land, maybe even turning allies against you

- False ally, probably my favorite. One of the anti party gains your trust only to set you up and make you look and feel stupid.


Basically often hint, or straight up say that the anti party has a hand in your PC's hardships and strife. This will continue to build the tension and hatred of the anti-party to a massive point, until your "Wrestlemania" encounter.

There are a million ways to use these techniques and they work. It is even more maddening to your good guys, because the bad guys always seem one step ahead, or just out of reach. In some cases it may lead to a LG Paladin losing his cool, and doing something out of character, giving you a cool new story arch to deal with.