Anyone Try A Zero Hit Points Equals Death Campaign?

[Fflewddur Fflam]

With the fact that a PC goes unconscious at 0 hp and gets death saving throws to avoid death, can be healed, etc., death for a PC seems like a really unusual occurrence. I've only been playing 5e for a few months but I've never seen any PC die.

Now, the threat of death isn't the only way to create tension or excitement in combat, but I kind of wish that death was a little more common in this game then it is. Has anyone every tried playing a 5e D&D game where zero hit points equals death? I think as long as you made it so revivify/raise dead scrolls popped up in a dungeon every once and a while that it would be an exciting way to make combat a little more tension-filled while also providing ways to not make the death necessarily permanent.

[Zman]

I wouldn't do a 0HP equals death campaign as characters are routinely dropped to 0, and at least in my campaign I'd be scaling the difficulty back to avoid TPKs.

If you are interested in making it more deadly what you can do is change the death save mechanic to make it more lethal. A single Death Save equal to 5+damage beyond 0 or die in a d4 rounds would work. Being dropped to 0HP isn't insta death, but you are one save and a few rounds away from death. At the least you'd have party members rushing over to shove a potion down their throats etc.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I wouldn't do a 0HP equals death campaign as characters are routinely dropped to 0, and at least in my campaign I'd be scaling the difficulty back to avoid TPKs.

If you are interested in making it more deadly what you can do is change the death save mechanic to make it more lethal. A single Death Save equal to 5+damage beyond 0 or die in a d4 rounds would work. Being dropped to 0HP isn't insta death, but you are one save and a few rounds away from death. At the least you'd have party members rushing over to shove a potion down their throats etc.

That's exactly what I DON'T like in 5e combat, someone goes to 0 hp, someone just casts a healing spell or forces a potion down their throats, and they are back in the combat, that's what gives combat very little jeopardy in 5e for me. Back in 1e or 2e, when you were at 0 hp, you were dead. I liked that. I'm just wondering if doing this in 5e changes the game too much? You would have to make raise dead scrolls a bit more prevalent.

[MrFahrenheit]

That's exactly what I DON'T like in 5e combat, someone goes to 0 hp, someone just casts a healing spell or forces a potion down their throats, and they are back in the combat, that's what gives combat very little jeopardy in 5e for me. Back in 1e or 2e, when you were at 0 hp, you were dead. I liked that. I'm just wondering if doing this in 5e changes the game too much? You would have to make raise dead scrolls a bit more prevalent.

I think it depends how you play your enemies. Certain hunger-driven monsters and unintelligent undead may stop over a KO'ed PC and feast, ignoring the other party members. Likewise, an intelligent bad guy who is backed into a corner and knows he's going to meet his maker may try to take a KO'ed PC with him.

[krugaan]

I do feel like there should be a 1 round incapacitate attached to being brought back to consciousness. Whack-a-mole mechanics kind of exacerbate the whole action economy thing.

[georgie_leech]

I do feel like there should be a 1 round incapacitate attached to being brought back to consciousness. Whack-a-mole mechanics kind of exacerbate the whole action economy thing.

There have been multiple combats where my Druid's main contribution was running around force feeding unconscious allies Goodberries. It can get pretty silly at times, yeah.

[SigmaOne]

If you're looking for more deadly, I don't see any reason why 0HP=dead can't be used. Though I like the idea of people being able to fall unconscious and not die, even when the assailant wasn't intending to be nonlethal. If you're at all interested in compromise, you could just give one death saving throw, which would make it much more likely a player will die. Another neat approach would be something like: Decide on two parameters, A and B as a rule. When a combatant is reduced to 0 HP, roll d20. If the outcome is less than A, the combatant dies. If A <= outcome < B, combatant is stable but unconscious for 1d4 hours and magical healing will not awaken them. If outcome >= B, then combatant is stable and can be healed and brought to combat as normal. A and B can be tweaked for desired lethality/severity. The middle ground could have whatever time range is desirable --- rounds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, etc.

[krugaan]

There have been multiple combats where my Druid's main contribution was running around force feeding unconscious allies Goodberries. It can get pretty silly at times, yeah.

Lol, that sounds about right. Although I think lore bards are worse with aura of vitality. Two characters a round, baby!

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I think it depends how you play your enemies. Certain hunger-driven monsters and unintelligent undead may stop over a KO'ed PC and feast, ignoring the other party members. Likewise, an intelligent bad guy who is backed into a corner and knows he's going to meet his maker may try to take a KO'ed PC with him.

This is true, and I have thought that the proper tactic for beasts, zombies, and other things that are attacking because they want to eat you is that they should still be attacking you after you go unconscious. That still doesn't negate the ease of which you can bring somebody back to consciousness by healing them.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

If you're looking for more deadly, I don't see any reason why 0HP=dead can't be used. Though I like the idea of people being able to fall unconscious and not die, even when the assailant wasn't intending to be nonlethal. If you're at all interested in compromise, you could just give one death saving throw, which would make it much more likely a player will die. Another neat approach would be something like: Decide on two parameters, A and B as a rule. When a combatant is reduced to 0 HP, roll d20. If the outcome is less than A, the combatant dies. If A <= outcome < B, combatant is stable but unconscious for 1d4 hours and magical healing will not awaken them. If outcome >= B, then combatant is stable and can be healed and brought to combat as normal. A and B can be tweaked for desired lethality/severity. The middle ground could have whatever time range is desirable --- rounds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, etc.

Not a bad suggestion! Although a bit complicated. I think I like the simplicity of "0 hp means you're dead but we do have ways of bringing you back to life after combat is over".

[Madbox]

Yeah, PC death happens pretty rarely. I've been playing 5e for nearly a year, and I've been killed a grand total of once. And that time was against something seriously overpowered for my level, when I was at half HP already.

Maybe use negative HP, and make healing only 25% effective on PCs in the negatives? And lower the instakill damage from "reduce to zero and overflow equal to max HP" to "reduce to zero and overflow equal to 50% HP".

Also, it wouldn't just be wild beasts that keep attacking downed enemies. Depending on the circumstances, intelligent enemies might do the same. A vampire might attack a KO'd cleric, just to make sure they stay down. A warlord who kept getting backstabbed by the rogue might hack at their body a few times, just out of spite.

[Zman]

I do feel like there should be a 1 round incapacitate attached to being brought back to consciousness. Whack-a-mole mechanics kind of exacerbate the whole action economy thing.

I fix that with a houserule that when you are brought back from 0HP through anymeans you gain 1 level of exhaustion. Watching a character get knocked down twice in a fight is pretty impactful and really add a good layer of fear to the encounters.

[krugaan]

I fix that with a houserule that when you are brought back from 0HP through anymeans you gain 1 level of exhaustion. Watching a character get knocked down twice in a fight is pretty impactful and really add a good layer of fear to the encounters.

This one I like. Puts a "6 death cap" per day, lol.

[BW022]

With the fact that a PC goes unconscious at 0 hp and gets death saving throws to avoid death, can be healed, etc., death for a PC seems like a really unusual occurrence. I've only been playing 5e for a few months but I've never seen any PC die.


Character death --> end of the campaign

Most campaigns aim to reach 10th, 15th, or 20th levels. Often they represent two years worth of weekly meetings -- untold time, work, roleplaying and investment by players. Anything which kills a PC ends this. Most players won't enjoy it. Most players will do anything not to have to start again. This means a range of things which end up making death irrelevant anyway -- raise dead, capturing the PCs (instead of realistically killing them), etc.

Death at 0hp would have a lot of unintended consequences on most campaigns. Everyone will play a massive constitution and heavily armored person. Healing will be far more important. Players may refuse to adventure, get mad at the DM for being unfair, or treat D&D like real life -- i.e. hiring NPCs, running, massive overkill, refusing to face reasonable CR encounters, etc. And if they die anyway... they'll just blame you for unbeatable or simply play in another game which is fun.

Heavy death campaigns -- outside of specific one-shot adventures -- typically isn't that fun.

However... there are things you can do to make your combats feel more real...

1. Face them with things which have the potential of killing them outright. Fights in a collapsing tunnel (time limit), fights where re-enforcements are arriving, fights on a cliff side, fighting in water, etc. Suddenly dropping unconscious means falling, drowning, not able to move down the corridor, etc.

2. Occasionally have a BBEG attack an unconscious PC. This puts the fear of heck into most parties when they see someone attack an downed PC -- even though it is only one failed save. This should be rare since most foes won't attack a downed character as standing PCs are more of a threat. Area spells might also be an option.

3. Introduce an NPC and kill them. May a DM PC and have them helping the party on a fairly regular basis. Give them an interesting personality and wait until the group bonds with them. They feel free to kill that NPC off. Players may not expect this.

4. Block downed people. As soon as a PC drops... have the BBEG stand on him or drag them into the rear. Make getting to them or healing them difficult.

5. Limit spell casting. As soon as a PC drops... maybe toss up a silence spell, fog cloud, darkness, etc. Far more dangerous that they need to succeed on a medicine check, find the person in the darkness, etc.

6. Use death as a bargaining chip. When someone drops... have a BBEG grab him and put a knife to his throat. Get the PCs to agree to leave or let them flee in return for not finishing the PC off.

etc.

Again, I wouldn't overdo any of these. They should be rare. However, they add a lot of tension and they do risk actual death within the rules without making every combat a good chance of ending the campaign.

[ad_hoc]

My houserule is to only reset death saving throw failures after a long rest.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Yeah, PC death happens pretty rarely. I've been playing 5e for nearly a year, and I've been killed a grand total of once. And that time was against something seriously overpowered for my level, when I was at half HP already.

Maybe use negative HP, and make healing only 25% effective on PCs in the negatives? And lower the instakill damage from "reduce to zero and overflow equal to max HP" to "reduce to zero and overflow equal to 50% HP".

Also, it wouldn't just be wild beasts that keep attacking downed enemies. Depending on the circumstances, intelligent enemies might do the same. A vampire might attack a KO'd cleric, just to make sure they stay down. A warlord who kept getting backstabbed by the rogue might hack at their body a few times, just out of spite.

Exactly, any intelligent enemy would say "hey, they're healing their downed companions, better not let that happen". I guess the one thing that just ruins any sense of realism for me is that fact that when PC's go down, they don't die, whereas all enemy creatures do. That's just... not something I can believe.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Character death --> end of the campaign


Nah. Character death is just character death. There is magic to bring a character back to life, the player could play a different character, etc. etc.

[Tvtyrant]

I use the house rule that death saves don't exist, and an individual character cannot die in combat. Instead they are "knocked out" when they drop to 0 HP, and cannot be revived until they are out of combat by any means. If the whole group is "knocked out" then they TPK and the party is lost, and this is also true of enemies that they fight. If an enemy is defeated and another one drags them off they live, if they get left behind they die.

In game explanation is that an individual can be revived from death after a short ritual if it is done in a few minutes, so actually dying requires no one being around to revive you. Magical healing and mundane healing cannot help, only the ritual (which almost everyone knows).

[Quintessence]

Could use the 3 strikes and you are out, downed 3 times means the character dies.

[Zman]

This one I like. Puts a "6 death cap" per day, lol.

And you can only average "dieing" once per day or exhaustion accumulates and you spend your days at less than 100% haha. Adds a bit of realism and fixes the healing word "Get your ass up" and be back to full functionality. Now, you fall down, get yelled at, stand up slightly tired, get knocked back down, get up real tired etc.

[MaxWilson]

That's exactly what I DON'T like in 5e combat, someone goes to 0 hp, someone just casts a healing spell or forces a potion down their throats, and they are back in the combat, that's what gives combat very little jeopardy in 5e for me. Back in 1e or 2e, when you were at 0 hp, you were dead. I liked that. I'm just wondering if doing this in 5e changes the game too much? You would have to make raise dead scrolls a bit more prevalent.

The real culprit here is cyclic initiative. Abolish it and the problem goes away. If you use a WE-GO initiative system more like AD&D, then when three goblins declare that they're attacking the guy who's low on HP, he can't just assume that some other PC will heal him as soon as he hits zero--they could all him him this turn (in which case, the second two are auto-crits and he's dead) or even if he survives that, he might fail his death check and the other PCs might fail their initiative roll next turn to save him before one of the goblins cuts his throat.

In my experience playing with this initiative variant, about 30-50% of the player characters who drop to zero HP die in one way or another, and zero of the players are casual about dropping to zero HP. It just feels too risky and uncertain.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I fix that with a houserule that when you are brought back from 0HP through anymeans you gain 1 level of exhaustion. Watching a character get knocked down twice in a fight is pretty impactful and really add a good layer of fear to the encounters.
I agree that some sort of lingering injury mechanic is much more meaningful than making death more common (die at 0) but cheaper (drop lots of resurrection items).

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I agree that some sort of lingering injury mechanic is much more meaningful than making death more common (die at 0) but cheaper (drop lots of resurrection items).

Of course, there's an opposite way around all this, but will make combat all the more lengthy (perhaps too lengthy): allow all creatures the exact same thing that PC's have, they go unconscious at 0 hp and make death saving throws. Oy, just thinking about that seems too complex, though.

[ruy343]

As was mentioned previously, you could do like Left 4 Dead does with dropping - if a player drops to 0 three times without receiving proper first aid, they die instantly.

To apply that to D&D, if they drop 3 times before a short rest (where they can spend a hit dice to heal), then they're dead.

OF course, this actually discourages getting a player back up, because they could be dropped by another AoE effect, but at least it would feel more tense.

Also, another poster pointed out that you should have characters be attacked while down, especially when a creature has a personal reason for killing one of them.

[Zman]

Of course, there's an opposite way around all this, but will make combat all the more lengthy (perhaps too lengthy): allow all creatures the exact same thing that PC's have, they go unconscious at 0 hp and make death saving throws. Oy, just thinking about that seems too complex, though.

That just makes me cringe, haha. And leads to a lot of PC executing people, things, instead of them just dying.

[RickAllison]

As was mentioned previously, you could do like Left 4 Dead does with dropping - if a player drops to 0 three times without receiving proper first aid, they die instantly.

To apply that to D&D, if they drop 3 times before a short rest (where they can spend a hit dice to heal), then they're dead.

OF course, this actually discourages getting a player back up, because they could be dropped by another AoE effect, but at least it would feel more tense.

Also, another poster pointed out that you should have characters be attacked while down, especially when a creature has a personal reason for killing one of them.

The way I always imagined it is that they do get death saves, but that generally doesn't matter to the story unless the PCs try to interact with them. If a PC tries to assess if the enemy is alive, I roll the death saves then. Otherwise, those combatants probably aren't getting up for another 1d4 hours if they get up at all.

[D.U.P.A.]

I would give a downed character a -1 to all checks, just like ressurection spell does (after all that is a mini ressurection). This is cumulative and if these bonus reach certain point (for example 5) it dies. A character may remove one of these -1s with short rest.

[MaxWilson]

Of course, there's an opposite way around all this, but will make combat all the more lengthy (perhaps too lengthy): allow all creatures the exact same thing that PC's have, they go unconscious at 0 hp and make death saving throws. Oy, just thinking about that seems too complex, though.

I've been doing this for a year and a half, and it's not complex as long as you make one tweak: a natural 20 on a death save does not pop you back up to 1 HP, it only auto-stabilizes you.

If you do this, you can just roll death checks at the end of the combat or at any other time they become relevant, instead of having to do it synchronously every round.

[Pope Scarface]

I've toyed with the idea of failed death saves not resetting until a long rest. I've also thought about being resurrected increasing the number of successful death saves required to stabilize (permanently) every time you are rez'd, to curb the revolving door to the afterlife issue.

[gameogre]

My Warduke Rules for 5E Give Death at 0 Hit Points. Just like Basic and 1E.

I think most modern players would dislike it. There is a LOT of Death just like in those old editions.

It's great for a certain type of game though. One where the action is fierce and deadly and the PC's are powerful and face overwhelming odds daily.

Because I use such a altered rule set I'm not sure what the death at 0 rule would do to a normal game. Well other than increase the amount of dead player characters piled up around the table.

[Plaguescarred]

I didn't try out it yet as i'm not so much concern by no death at 0 hp than the repetitive ping ponging from dying to conciousness all the time.

So i'm toying with the idea of using houserules more geared toward this;


- Whenever a creature falls unconscious, it suffer 1 level of exhaustion.

- Whenever a creature recover conciousness, it's stunned until the end of it's next turn,, only speaking falteringly.

[Sigreid]

That's exactly what I DON'T like in 5e combat, someone goes to 0 hp, someone just casts a healing spell or forces a potion down their throats, and they are back in the combat, that's what gives combat very little jeopardy in 5e for me. Back in 1e or 2e, when you were at 0 hp, you were dead. I liked that. I'm just wondering if doing this in 5e changes the game too much? You would have to make raise dead scrolls a bit more prevalent.

Nothing stops the more brutal enemies from taking an action to finish the job.

[thebiglost1]

In our main campaign when you drop to 0hp you are 'dead' until the completion of that combat and then can be healed/ brought back. When they are bright back in this manner they return with a grievous wound or lingering injury or whatever it's called.

Our monk was missing an eye for 2 sessions until we found the appropriate clerical group to complete a side quest for.

[Slipperychicken]

With the fact that a PC goes unconscious at 0 hp and gets death saving throws to avoid death, can be healed, etc., death for a PC seems like a really unusual occurrence. I've only been playing 5e for a few months but I've never seen any PC die.

Now, the threat of death isn't the only way to create tension or excitement in combat, but I kind of wish that death was a little more common in this game then it is. Has anyone every tried playing a 5e D&D game where zero hit points equals death? I think as long as you made it so revivify/raise dead scrolls popped up in a dungeon every once and a while that it would be an exciting way to make combat a little more tension-filled while also providing ways to not make the death necessarily permanent.

I'll do you one better. Instead of death at 0hp, every time they get healed back from 0hp, they get to roll on this fun little table I lifted from ACKS. They roll a d20 and a d6 separately, the modifiers at the bottom apply to the d20 roll, but nothing applies to the d6.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3683/13902423664_45fb2e6569_o.jpg

Haven't tried it yet, but it should make dropping to 0 hit points a little more daunting than it is now.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Nothing stops the more brutal enemies from taking an action to finish the job.

True, but the fact that they have to spend 3 actions to do so while just one action is needed to bring the person to consciousness again makes death still an unlikely event.

[Slipperychicken]

True, but the fact that they have to spend 3 actions to do so while just one action is needed to bring the person to consciousness again makes death still an unlikely event.

Hitting someone while they're KO'd is an automatic critical. Criticals are 2 failed death saves. If they simply double-tap a downed PC, that's death.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

In our main campaign when you drop to 0hp you are 'dead' until the completion of that combat and then can be healed/ brought back. When they are bright back in this manner they return with a grievous wound or lingering injury or whatever it's called.


An interesting revision, but in this case, the only way you will ever die is if there is a TPK, which should be rare, because it's really hard to continue a campaign after a TPK. Thus, dropping to zero hp offers no real jeopardy, you just have to sit out the rest of the current combat.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Hitting someone while they're KO'd is an automatic critical. Criticals are 2 failed death saves. If they simply double-tap a downed PC, that's death.

Ahh, good point!

[MaxWilson]

Hitting someone while they're KO'd is an automatic critical. Criticals are 2 failed death saves. If they simply double-tap a downed PC, that's death.

Nitpick: hitting someone within 5' of you while they're downed is an automatic critical. At 10' or more it's just a regular hit or a regular critical, depending.

Mostly this only matters for missile weapons but it can potentially also matter for reach weapons, which a lot of monsters have.

[Slipperychicken]

Nitpick: hitting someone within 5' of you while they're downed is an automatic critical. At 10' or more it's just a regular hit or a regular critical, depending.

Mostly this only matters for missile weapons but it can potentially also matter for reach weapons, which a lot of monsters have.

That is true. I think that it's reasonable for a group to houserule that "5 feet" means "melee range" in this case, as it's one of the more likely readings. I would recommend it, especially given a number of other rules that seem to conflate the two concepts to spare players from having to ask questions about reach in most cases. RAW might be RAW, but it's not always the best option.

[JBPuffin]

Easiest way to play 5e with a 0=Dead rule - make PCs who aren't twenty pages of backstory. If the players keep a degree of detachment from their characters, they'll accept death and move on, no need to worry about res's beyond the baseline. Once someone can raise, of course, that becomes much less of an issue, but there's no reason you couldn't run a normal 5e game with old-school death.

[2D8HP]

I've only been playing 5e for a few months but I've never seen any PC die Likewise.
Has anyone every tried playing a 5e D&D game where zero hit points equals death?5e? I haven't yet seen anyone get lower than 1hp yet. But in the vast majority of D&D that I've played 0 hp = character death.
Easiest way to play 5e with a 0=Dead rule - make PCs who aren't twenty pages of backstory. If the players keep a degree of detachment from their characters, they'll accept death and move on, no need to worry about res's beyond the baseline. Once someone can raise, of course, that becomes much less of an issue, but there's no reason you couldn't run a normal 5e game with old-school death.In most of the D&D I played in the 1970's and 80's, I don't remember anyone bothering with back story besides a name and class, going three sessions without a PC death was rare, and "rolling up" new PC's was so quick that we were as likely as not to start any given session with new PC's. While having a PC that survives is novel and interesting, :smile: I hate being forced to write a back story, :yuk: and I really, really miss "roll and go" PC's and the times we had playing them. :frown:

[Jarlhen]

I would make it so that you can't be revived if you're downed. Keep the rest of the mechanics but no matter how much healing is thrown at you you can't be awoken until after a few minutes.

Likewise, I'd alter the revive mechanism to make it much more difficult.

[Baptor]

Two words from old AD&D: System Shock.

Bring it back. See how that goes. ;)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Be sure to get everyone's buy-in before beefing up lethality, especially if you're going to old-school lengths. Not everyone has fond (or any) memories of the game from 30+ years ago, nor wants to return to such a paradigm.

Two words from old AD&D: System Shock.

Bring it back. See how that goes. ;)
? (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock&ved=0ahUKEwiVzqHMrObNAhVHJx4KHQEJB0AQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNG549KCLvW3dLwVJDE3BX-Z2xKY2Q&sig2=m1NTPTxUPq9ltNEsq8YQxQ)

[georgie_leech]

The exact mechanics escape me at the moment, but the short version is that coming back from the dead used to be a very traumatic experience.

[MaxWilson]

The exact mechanics escape me at the moment, but the short version is that coming back from the dead used to be a very traumatic experience.

Well, sort of. That's the resurrection survival chance. If you fail that, not only did Raise Dead/Resurrection fail to work, but you could never be revived again short of Wish--your body has deteriorated too far to fix.

System Shock was the chance of insta-death when you were Polymorphed, magically aged (Haste spell or via ghost), or underwent a similar traumatic shock to your entire system.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/a4c541b77c5f30a6ec7ffb730cb086ed.wix_mp_512

[Fflewddur Fflam]

The exact mechanics escape me at the moment, but the short version is that coming back from the dead used to be a very traumatic experience.

You'd have to make a Con saving throw just to see if it was successful and you lost 1 Con point permanently. Of course, this was 2e back when you could have ability scores that didn't affect things too much. But once you got Con below 8, you would start getting hp penalties, and it set a limit as to how many times you could be brought back because once your Con was 0, you were dead permanently.

I wouldn't want to do the Con penalties for 5e, I think the temporary negative effects from raise dead or resurrection are fine.

EDIT: MaxWilson beat me to it!

[Belac93]

I would want to try a hardcore old school 5e game. 3d6 straight down, rolled hp every level (including 1st), and 0 hp equals death.

Maybe instead, you have a 50% chance of dying, a 25% chance of dying in 1d4 rounds if not treated, and a 25% chance of stabilizing immediately, and waking up in 1d4 hours.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I would want to try a hardcore old school 5e game. 3d6 straight down, rolled hp every level (including 1st), and 0 hp equals death.


This is the only test of Real Men.

[krugaan]

This is the only test of Real Men.

Pbbbt, that's only hardcore.

"Realistic" is no hp gain on levelling and no rez.

[2D8HP]

Old School:

for each day of rest, 1 hit point of damage is restored. After 30 game days have passed, hit points accrue at the rate of 5 per day, thereafter.
New School:

5e allows you to roll a hit die (actually, you can roll as many as you have, but you only have one per level) during a short rest (half hour to an hour) to recover health. Then when we take a long rest (6-8 hours or so) you get back up to half your level of hit dice (at least one).

¿Que es mas macho?

:wink:

[TentacleSurpris]

There have been multiple combats where my Druid's main contribution was running around force feeding unconscious allies Goodberries. It can get pretty silly at times, yeah.

My partial solution to this as a DM is to use potions and goodberries RAW: the character receiving the healing must spend an Action to consume them. No force-feeding anything. This way you actually need healers to be healers.

This makes a lot of real-world sense. Shoving a berry down someones throat is more likely to choke them then heal them. Same with a potion; you don't take an unconscious person and pour liquid down their throat, it's more likely to kill them than help them. Everybody knows when you have a drunk friend you roll them over on their side, not pour more down their gullet.

[2D8HP]

Everybody knows when you have a drunk friend you roll them over on their side, not pour more down their gullet.Everybody? Um sure...
And in a completely unrelated note, I may have realized why my friends haven't been returning my calls after parties....
:wink:

[RickAllison]

My partial solution to this as a DM is to use potions and goodberries RAW: the character receiving the healing must spend an Action to consume them. No force-feeding anything. This way you actually need healers to be healers.

This makes a lot of real-world sense. Shoving a berry down someones throat is more likely to choke them then heal them. Same with a potion; you don't take an unconscious person and pour liquid down their throat, it's more likely to kill them than help them. Everybody knows when you have a drunk friend you roll them over on their side, not pour more down their gullet.

While the Goodberry part is understandable, the rules do cover that potions can be administered. Just check the entry in equipment for potions of healing, they state that "drinking or administering" takes an action.

I've joked with my DM that I should make my Artificer a doctor who administers potions instead as suppositories or via hypodermic needles. That idea was swiftly shot down :smallbiggrin:

[2D8HP]

Artificer a doctor who administers potions instead as suppositories or via hypodermic needles.

Player: Iplace the unconscious guys backside up.

DM: Just what is your PC intending to do?

:wink:

[Saeviomage]

If you're attacked by wild animals (or animal-like things), they won't stop once you're down: they'll most likely grab you and run off if they're big enough, or keep attacking if they're a swarm or something.

Most mindless foes (undead, oozes, plant creatures) will continue attacking a downed foe.

Most intelligent foes who want you dead will continue attacking a downed foe, because you are adventurers and therefore expected to have healing.

In short: the only foes that aren't likely to hit you while you're down are those that are deliberately trying not to kill you. And they are likely to take countermeasures against you receiving heals.

[PotatoGolem]

Should be fine as long as you get player buy-in. If they're all grognards who want an old-school rp-light hack and slash, you're golden. If they're modern rp-centric folks who are super invested in their characters, you'll lose them. Like most things in D&D, there's no universal right answer

[R.Shackleford]

With the fact that a PC goes unconscious at 0 hp and gets death saving throws to avoid death, can be healed, etc., death for a PC seems like a really unusual occurrence. I've only been playing 5e for a few months but I've never seen any PC die.

Now, the threat of death isn't the only way to create tension or excitement in combat, but I kind of wish that death was a little more common in this game then it is. Has anyone every tried playing a 5e D&D game where zero hit points equals death? I think as long as you made it so revivify/raise dead scrolls popped up in a dungeon every once and a while that it would be an exciting way to make combat a little more tension-filled while also providing ways to not make the death necessarily permanent.

It takes away a lot of the "fighting on" type scenarios. That's sad.

I prefer 0 HP = stunned* and then two failed death saves = knocked out, three death saves = dead.

Edit: but can move at half speed.

[2D8HP]

Like most things in D&D, there's no universal right answerWell said!

[JakOfAllTirades]

I would want to try a hardcore old school 5e game. 3d6 straight down, rolled hp every level (including 1st), and 0 hp equals death.



The first D&D campaign I played in, back in 1980, had rules like that. My first character's highest ability was a 12. He had 2 hit points. And yeah, he died, bitten by a rodent of unusual size about 20 minutes after character creation. I found the whole experience confusing; the game was promoted as being about "mighty heroes", and giving players the ability to "create any fantasy character you can imagine" but actually it was about rolling up completely random pathetic dweebs with almost zero life expectancy and watching them die over and over again. In short, it was an altogether dishonest bait-and-switch which didn't even come close to delivering what it promised.

It's a miracle I didn't walk away from the hobby in disgust, but RPG rules have improved a great deal over the last 35 years. I'd no sooner go back to that than I'd trade in my new car for Chevy Citation.

[R.Shackleford]

Well said!

Tell that to the paladins

[2D8HP]

It's a miracle I didn't walk away from the hobby in disgust, but RPG rules have improved a great deal over the last 35 years. I'd no sooner go back to that than I'd trade in my new car for Chevy Citation.My Citation runs JUST FINE PAL!
:wink:
Heh.
You description was spot on actually.
Sometimes we'd wait to see if our PC's survived just a little before naming them. It was rare to choose any class besides fighting-man, even when strength was the lowest stat, because more hit points was vital.
One of the "mods" we did was to make the Constitution stat be the starting Hit points. In retrospect I wonder why we didn't change it more.

[BurgerBeast]

I am in the "D&D needs to be more deadly" camp, but I understand that people have grown accustomed to second, third, and fourth chances. In my opinion these allow PCs to get away with more sloppy play, but more importantly they allow the game to turn absurd in terms of how death is rationalized in-chracter. Characters don't fear death, which is not the way I want my world to work.

The solution I am considering is introducing HEALTH. Health is a number equal to your Constitution score. If you go below zero hit points, you take Health damage. When health damage reaches zero, you are dead. Health points return at a much slower rate than hit points, because they represent real injuries. This rate might be your con modifier per week, for example.

You can do other things if you want. I haven't decided on these options but I'm considering each of them:

(1) You are somehow reduced in effectiveness when you have zero hit points. For example you have disadvantage on all attacks and ability checks until you have hit points again.

(2) Lethal damage such as that from falling or from sneak attacks might ignore hit points and damage health directly, representing the seriousness of the injury. This might involve reducing the damage caused by lethal effects to scale it appropriately.

[Zman]

I am in the "D&D needs to be more deadly" camp, but I understand that people have grown accustomed to second, third, and fourth chances. In my opinion these allow PCs to get away with more sloppy play, but more importantly they allow the game to turn absurd in terms of how death is rationalized in-chracter. Characters don't fear death, which is not the way I want my world to work.

The solution I am considering is introducing HEALTH. Health is a number equal to your Constitution score. If you go below zero hit points, you take Health damage. When health damage reaches zero, you are dead. Health points return at a much slower rate than hit points, because they represent real injuries. This rate might be your con modifier per week, for example.

You can do other things if you want. I haven't decided on these options but I'm considering each of them:

(1) You are somehow reduced in effectiveness when you have zero hit points. For example you have disadvantage on all attacks and ability checks until you have hit points again.

(2) Lethal damage such as that from falling or from sneak attacks might ignore hit points and damage health directly, representing the seriousness of the injury. This might involve reducing the damage caused by lethal effects to scale it appropriately.

Could use a modified Wound/Vitality point system from 3.5's varient rules.

I used one that was basically, Wound Points equal to Vitality Points. Wound Points represented physical damage. Natural Healing was only 1WP/Day of rest. Any loss of WPs caused the character to be fatigued. Crits automatically dealt Wound Damage. Having 0 Wound Points was Death. Wound Point Damage caused a save to avoid being stunned or going unconscious. Non heroic characters didn't have Vitality Points(Abstract Hitpoints), they only had WPs.

It was a fun system that I enjoyed using on multiple occasions, though it required modifying a lot, especially where enemies were concerned. I also combined it with an armor as dr variant in 3.5.

Something similar could be used in 5e, basically you have WPs equal to your Con score. You gain VPs in addition to that, your Hit dice(no max at first level). Taking WP damage could cause a level of exhaustion and reduce functionality. Have them take a day per WP to heal, harder to heal with magical healing ie only a fixed amount say spell level.

I'm not sure it is the best for 5e as I want it right now, but it could fit the bill for what you are looking for.

[2D8HP]

After my PC got stabbed and lost half his hit points, I just recently encountered and took advantage of the "short rest" in 5e D&D, in which pretending to lay around for 30 minutes completely healed my PC!
Which is totally realistic!
:wink:
The old slower healing of AD&D did not properly model such true to life depictions, such as when Danny Glover as "Mike Harrigan" in: Predator 2 (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0100403/)
falls through a freakin' building, then dusts himself off, and goes back into the fight!

[R.Shackleford]

After my PC got stabbed and lost half his hit points, I just recently encountered and took advantage of the "short rest" in 5e D&D, in which pretending to lay around for 30 minutes completely healed my PC!
Which is totally realistic!
:wink:
The old slower healing of AD&D did not properly model such true to life depictions, such as when Danny Glover as "Mike Harrigan" in: Predator 2 (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0100403/)
falls through a freakin' building, then dusts himself off, and goes back into the fight!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?494350-DM-PSA-Damage-is-NOT-Just-Meat

[Slipperychicken]

After my PC got stabbed and lost half his hit points, I just recently encountered and took advantage of the "short rest" in 5e D&D, in which pretending to lay around for 30 minutes completely healed my PC!
Which is totally realistic!
:wink:
The old slower healing of AD&D did not properly model such true to life depictions, such as when Danny Glover as "Mike Harrigan" in: Predator 2 (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0100403/)
falls through a freakin' building, then dusts himself off, and goes back into the fight!

Some people I played with had been using AD&D 2e for about a decade. They played a few sessions of 5e, and liked the fighter's second wind feature so much they talked about houseruling it into their AD&D game.

[RickAllison]

Could use a modified Wound/Vitality point system from 3.5's varient rules.

I used one that was basically, Wound Points equal to Vitality Points. Wound Points represented physical damage. Natural Healing was only 1WP/Day of rest. Any loss of WPs caused the character to be fatigued. Crits automatically dealt Wound Damage. Having 0 Wound Points was Death. Wound Point Damage caused a save to avoid being stunned or going unconscious. Non heroic characters didn't have Vitality Points(Abstract Hitpoints), they only had WPs.

It was a fun system that I enjoyed using on multiple occasions, though it required modifying a lot, especially where enemies were concerned. I also combined it with an armor as dr variant in 3.5.

Something similar could be used in 5e, basically you have WPs equal to your Con score. You gain VPs in addition to that, your Hit dice(no max at first level). Taking WP damage could cause a level of exhaustion and reduce functionality. Have them take a day per WP to heal, harder to heal with magical healing ie only a fixed amount say spell level.

I'm not sure it is the best for 5e as I want it right now, but it could fit the bill for what you are looking for.

I'll propose a variation that may require less fiddling. Again, WP is the Con score, is reduced by three when HP hits zero (representing the potential three failed saves) and and increased when death saving throws are successful. Let's see how that works out with the different ways of getting out of death:

Succeeding three saves. This causes no net loss of WP because the wound must have been such that the person could handle it without help. At the cost of not being able to do much until you wake up, you allow the body to stabilize itself.

Healing someone. Healing is great for repairing surface wounds so one can continue, but it has difficulties repairing all the internal damage done to the body. This is the worst for a body long-term, because the person is fooled into thinking they have healed when they have some major issues to work on.

Rolling a natural 20 on a death save. I'm divided on this one. On the one hand, it should be a good result, but I also think there is a cost in getting right back into combat. Either this one can count as refunding the remaining WP from the knockout, or the person could be revived with the caveat that getting back into the fray without rest will prevent the WP from healing more than normal. Or maybe count it as two, that could work as well.

Medicine check. I want this to be useful. How about Medicine checks to stabilize someone regain the lost WP.

So in such a system, healing would be a risky business as the person risks long-term damage (like running on a torn ligament; one can do it with determination, but it will cause long-term damage to the system). Stabilizing the body is the best outcome, at the cost of being unable to do anything and risking further damage.

As for healing WP, I was thinking that spells should not be able to heal it barring something like a 9th level spell. Lesser healing spells don't necessarily get everything right. I was thinking that WP heal at 1/week, while someone who has watched over him can make a Medicine check once per week (DC equal to 10+WP damage) to heal 1d4 damage.

[pwykersotz]

I actually use a variant in the opposite respect, I don't have character fall unconscious at 0hp, though they still make Death Saving Throws. It keeps them from being utterly removed from the action.

When I want to make combat more deadly, I just up the damage and tactics of the monsters I throw at the party. I've dropped party members with a technically Easy encounter as recently as last week (4 level 5's vs a single Black Pudding) and at the beginning of my last campaign last September (2 Helmed Horrors vs 4 level 8's). Not to say the proposed variant isn't a good idea, it's just a different way to do it, and it makes the hit point approach very, very different.

If you want this to be deadly but not feel like a total screw, you might want to try the Dungeon World method for your death saves (http://book.dwgazetteer.com/moves_discussion.html).

Last Breath

When you’re dying you catch a glimpse of what lies beyond the Black Gates of Death’s Kingdom (the GM will describe it). Then roll (just roll, +nothing—yeah, Death doesn’t care how tough or cool you are). ✴On a 10+, you’ve cheated Death—you’re in a bad spot but you’re still alive. ✴On a 7–9, Death himself will offer you a bargain. Take it and stabilize or refuse and pass beyond the Black Gates into whatever fate awaits you. ✴On 6-, your fate is sealed. You’re marked as Death’s own and you’ll cross the threshold soon. The GM will tell you when.

The Last Breath is that moment standing between life and death. Time stands still as Death appears to claim the living for his own. Even those who do not pass beyond the Black Gates catch a glimpse of the other side and what might await them—friends and enemies past, rewards or punishment for acts in life or other, stranger vistas. All are changed in some way by this moment—even those who escape.

There are three outcomes to this move. On a 10+, the Character has cheated Death in some meaningful way. He’s escaped with something that, by rights, isn’t his anymore. Death is powerless to stop this, but he remembers this slight. On a 7–9, the GM should offer a real choice with significant consequence. Think about the behaviors of the character and the things you’ve learned about him in play. Death knows and sees all and tailors his bargains accordingly. This is a trade, remember. Offer something that will be a challenge to play out but will lead the game in fun new direction. On a miss, death is inevitable. The most obvious approach is to say “Death takes you across the threshold, into his bleak kingdom.” and move on. However, sometimes Death comes slowly. You might say “you have a week to live” or “you can feel the cold hand of Death on you…” and leave it at that, for now. The player may want to give in and accept death at this point—that’s okay. Let them create a new character as normal. The key thing to remember is that a brush with death, succeed or fail, is a significant moment that should always lead to change.

GM: Sparrow, as the knife blade disappears into your guts, the world fades away and you stand before the Black Gates of Death. Among the throngs of suffering souls, you spot Lord Hwyn, that sickly cur. It looks like all his ill deals caught up with him at last. He spots you across the bleak gulf and you feel the chill of his hunger in your very soul. Take your Last Breath.

Sparrow: Heavy. I got a 9.

GM: Death appears to you, wisps of black cloth dancing around his shadowy form. A pale hand touches your face. You hear his voice in your mind. “Come to me so soon, pretty Sparrow? You follow a river of souls, sent here by your blade. I do so love you for them. I’ll return you to the world, but you must make me a promise. In shadow you dwell, so shadow you shall become. Shun the light of day forever or find a quick trip back to my company. What do you say, little thief?”

Sparrow: (gulp)

Just make it a single save instead of three and change the 2d6 to a d20 and make a failure be 1-7, partial success be 8-17, and success be 18+.