Loading a Great Crossbow faster

[Blackhawk748]

A buddy is going to play a Targeteer Fighter in an upcoming E6 game (dont worry hes trading all of his Fighter feats for other things) and plans on using a Great Crossbow. The problem: I can only get the reloading down to a Move action (Rapid Reload + Self Loading Crossbow enchantment). While this isnt terrible as he is going to be doing a fair amount of damage as our DM has made Vital Aim just add his Dex mod to damage and he also has Crossbow Sniper (so hes doing 2d8+6 every shot) I would like him to be able to full attack.

So anyone have a way?

[TheIronGolem]

Crossbow Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crossbow-mastery-combat)

EDIT: Wait, this isn't Pathfinder, is it? Never mind.

[trikkydik]

Hmm, difficult question. I can't possibly understand the logic behind adding dexterity to a crossbows damage. Logic would state that the strength required to re-**** the lever would be the added damage modifier.
(But then again this is an illogical world)

To answer the rapid reloading, i think your best bet is home brewing some sort of device that makes the Great Crossbow a Great Crossbow of Repeating.

Somehow granting your archer buddy the ability to have a 'clip' of a finite amount of bolts.

But Crossbows suck balls, why doesn't he just use a composite bow? it makes no sense for someone who is an archer. A crossbow is for a bard or non archer.

(Also if youve ever seen Game of Thrones, Tyrion (the dwarf) used a tool to help him rapidly reload his crossbow when he... i wont spoil it.)

Maybe there's a device that can help there, but it still takes a lot of effort to reload a crossbow, they're pointless IMO.

I hope i helped a little. Good luck



After more thought. i dont think a "full attack" is what youre looking for in a sniper.

I think he needs to do more damage per shot, or cause misc. effects.

If hes a sniper he should be able to have some sort of ranged sunder attack, or a precision based attack. where he can aim for a vital spot, and somehow hinder his enemies like a real sniper.

Snipers dont usually fire many shots.

I think quality is better than quantity in this case.

Again good luck

[Eldariel]

There's the Ghostly Reload spell in Races of the Dragon, though it doesn't specify Great Crossbow (cross-splatbook references in this game suck). You could reasonably assume it's identical to Heavy Crossbow as the actions needed are as well, but that's not explicit RAW. Ask the DM.

[Blackhawk748]

To answer the question, Crossbows are cool, thats pretty much it. Oh and he can be Dex SAD, so thats a bonus. Also Vital Aim was designed to be used with a Composite Longbow and it simply replaces the Str bonus to damage with your Dex. We thought that was dumb so we changed it.

As for Precision damage, that is an option, but with it being E6 he has limited options.

Ghostly Reload should work, ill bring it up.

[Thurbane]

Crossbow Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crossbow-mastery-combat)

EDIT: Wait, this isn't Pathfinder, is it? Never mind.

There was a pre-Pathfinder version of the same feat: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2il0z?Crossbow-Mastery
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9334198&postcount=4

[Sayt]

Honestly I'd just bring in crossbow mastery, but if you want to keep this 3.5, Hand Crossbow Focus from Drow of the Underdark plus an aptitude Great Crossbow

[ekarney]

Honestly I'd just bring in crossbow mastery, but if you want to keep this 3.5, Hand Crossbow Focus from Drow of the Underdark plus an aptitude Great Crossbow

Damnit, I was going to say that!
In that case I'll second it. Aptitude is my answer to everything.

[janusmaxwell]

Speaking on the "Adding Dex to crossbow damage", the same guy brought up a feat he found last night that said (paraphrased) "Trade out your proficiency with Tower Shields and Heavy Armor for adding DEX to damage"

I think it was from something called a "hit-and-run fighter", possibly.

Big point that's making me want to say "Oh HELL no." Is when he said that this Dex/Damage would STACK on top of the Dex/Damage from Vital Shot.

It just seems too game-breaking for me, but since it's an E6 game, does that mean it's fine? (provided double-checking the rules shows that it's Stackable with Vital Shot, otherwise problem solved)

[Waddacku]

Hit-and-run Fighter would stack with Vital Aim, yeah. There's no inherent limit to how many times you can stack on the same modifier through different means. It's unlikely to break any game, either.

[Darrin]

Speaking on the "Adding Dex to crossbow damage", the same guy brought up a feat he found last night that said (paraphrased) "Trade out your proficiency with Tower Shields and Heavy Armor for adding DEX to damage"

Hit-and-run fighter ACF in Drow of the Underdark. Only works on flat-footed opponents within 30'.



Big point that's making me want to say "Oh HELL no." Is when he said that this Dex/Damage would STACK on top of the Dex/Damage from Vital Shot.


It does stack by RAW, but in a game that allows two-handed uberchargers to get an x8 damage multiplier by level 6, I don't see why this would be a concern.

Archers get shafted in 3.x, and crossbows even more so. I can't see how this would create problems in any game, much less E6.

[daremetoidareyo]

Multiple cross bows and the quick draw feat. Just reload after the match. dropping them is a free action

Alternatively:
wand chamber and a wand of instant reload.

Cheese:
Wield an oversized light crossbow. The penalty only applies to the weight of the crossbow.

[Blackhawk748]

I think it was from something called a "hit-and-run fighter", possibly.

Big point that's making me want to say "Oh HELL no." Is when he said that this Dex/Damage would STACK on top of the Dex/Damage from Vital Shot.

It just seems too game-breaking for me, but since it's an E6 game, does that mean it's fine? (provided double-checking the rules shows that it's Stackable with Vital Shot, otherwise problem solved)

It is Hit and Run Fighter, and it is stackable as they are both untyped bonuses.

For comparisons sake here's a THF with a 22 Str, a Greatsword, and Power Attack and his character with a 22 Dex with Hit and Run Fighter and Ranged Weapon Mastery. The THF will always be Power Attacking for full.

On a Flat Footed Opponent:

THF gets +6 to hit and 2d6+21 damage (average damage 28)
Crossbow gets +15 to hit and 2d8+19 to damage (average damage 28)

So hes more accurate and they do the same, on average, damage. Now for when they arent vs. flat footed

On Non-Flat-Footed Opponent:

THF gets +6 to hit and 2d6+21 damage (average damage 28)
Crossbow gets +15 to hit and 2d8+13 to damage (average damage 22)

Crossbow just took a damage hit, note this is the same damage if they are out of Precision Damage range (30ft typically). Now to show how THF can get ramped up.

On the Charge with Leap Attack:

THF gets +8 to hit and 2d6+27 damage (average damage 34)

On the Charge with Leap Attack and a Valorous Weapon:

THF gets +9 to hit and 4d6+27 damage (average damage 41)

On the Charge with Leap Attack, a Valorous Weapon, Cobalt Charge and Cobalt Power (both with 3 Essentia in them, yes this means they took Imp Essentia Capacity twice, this is E6 we're talking about :smalltongue:):

THF gets +12 to hit and 4d6+33 damage (average damage 47)

On top of everything i just listed it gets worse if you make it a Lance and make them mounted, so no, the Crossbow isnt nearly as crazy as it seems. His main advantage is accuracy and being able to be way the hell over there and still hit pretty freakin hard. And when it all comes down to it, hes still just a Fighter, so all he can do is shoot stuff.