View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Warlock Patron: The Great Wyrm [PEACH]

2016-07-10, 01:53 AM
I just recently saw that someone else posted a write-up for a 5e Dragonfire Adept. I kicked myself because someone beat me to it. However there were enough differences between the two of our versions that each was unique.

So, here's this (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SJvITiPI)

And a good PEACH never hurt anyone. Share your thoughts.


Final Hyena
2016-07-10, 05:02 AM
I'm not sure if control the rage should have unaffected squares rather than creatures avoided.

Full round actions are no longer a thing.

Alignment restrictions on abilities are rare. Generally it's handled more as an RP thing, your patron might notice you not matching his standards and so sends minions after you, or really disapproves and takes the effort to stop the flow of power, or maybe drawing on his power causes you injury etc.

2016-07-10, 07:38 AM
I just recently saw that someone else posted a write-up a 5e Dragonfire Adept. I kicked myself because someone beat me to it. However there were enough differences between the two of our versions that each was unique.

So, here's this (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SJvITiPI)

And a good PEACH never hurt anyone. Share your thoughts.


1. The feature turning your Eldritch Blast into a choice of 2 breath weapons already majorly increases DPR. The area increase makes this have the highest consistent DPR to any other class in the game.
2. Draconic Adaptation is blatantly overpowered. Flat advantage on one of the best checks in the game and advantage against a devastating condition in which dragons are no longer immune to is just ridiculous. This alone would have been too much.
2. Scales, scale badly considering it is like Unarmored Defense. Ultimately it needs multi-classing to be good. Though this would probably would work with mage armor in which then your AC becomes better than most other Unarmored Defense features.
3. Dreadnought outclasses Fiendish Resilience in every way possible. This needs to be changed, maybe look to the Fey pact except with Frightened instead.
4. So, on top of more health, and more resistances than anything else in the game you have just gave critical hits to Bladelocks in damage, more reach, spell immunities, and the Dragon sorcerer's feature at the same level. There is simply no room for this here.

2016-07-10, 01:43 PM
Why not just write an Invocation that lets you turn Eldritch Blast into a cone with a spread/range based on how many shots it would have?

Give that to Wyrm Pact Warlocks for free and let them pick an elemental damage type that their Eldritch Blast does. That way they've got a breath weapon, and all these other cool Invocations you want to write can just key off Eldritch Blast and be useable/balanced for everyone instead of this one specific subclass.

2016-07-11, 08:35 AM
Firstly thanks to all of you for reading and responding.

Final Hyena:

* Control the Rage: Agreed. Changed. Also changed level requirement from 10th to 9th.
* If by full round you were referring to the Bahamut and Tiamat invocations: good catch, thank you. Those descriptions were more or less copy/pasted from Dragon Magic.
* Fivefold breath of Tiamat: removed alignment restrictions/extra exhaustion; changed 2 HD to just one, because Tiamat is a b**** like that. Your game can rule it out. As it stands, it makes for good rp, and a good boss ability.
* Discorporating Breath of Bahamut: removed alignment restrictions/extra exhaustion

Amnoriath: good points. changing quite a few features based on your critique.

* Dragon Breath: recharge (5 to 6); damage scaling: 1d6 -> 2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6 (UristMcRandom uses an invocation that would change the d6 to d8, I like that idea a lot actually); does not replace eldritch blast; force damage instead of fire damage
* Draconic Adaption: Agreed. Removed. Admittedly it was just a toned down version of Tough. I suppose if you want more hit points you can take the feat.
* Dragon Scales: restrictions for use, does not stack with the AC from Magical armor and items; ideally your AC should never go above 18.
* Draconic Dreadnought: name change and function change to a lesser frightful presence.

Revild: not a terrible idea, but it doesn't fit well with this. However, it would make for a good invocation for general use. Write it up.

Other Changes:

* Elemental Breath: level requirement change, function changes, option for fire damage
* Removed Lulling Whispers: sleep is already a warlock spell - redundancy
* Added an option for the repelling blast invocation.
* Removed "Breath Effects Invocations" section; rolled into "Breath Weapon" section.
* Paralyzing Breath: level requirement changed from 6th to 9th level.
* Puff of Smoke: level requirement changed from 10th to 9th.
* some other changes that I can't recall...

2016-07-12, 12:40 PM
1. Breath Weapon is much better now.
2. It is better but Dragon Scales is just more difficult than it needs to be. There is typo in which it says -1 to Dexterity modifier which would be a net detriment, plus the stacking with special armor with other features is just really weird. Perhaps instead you should look towards other Warlock 6th level features as to not just copy the Dragon sorcerer's feature. Here is what I would do, "Draconic Resilience: At 6th level when you would take damage as a reaction you gain resistance to that type of damage as long as it isn't force damage until the end of your next turn,"
3. Dreadful presence is very nice.
4. You still haven't done anything to Dragonkin. This really needs to be changed as it is the only feature to actually increase your size gaining all of its benefits(see damage, hit die,..etc), other ribbons, and the Dragon sorcerer's feature of the same level. What to replace it with, I am not sure, but perhaps a once per long rest summon that is similar to other such spells would be fitting with the idea and ribbons you have.

2016-07-14, 07:37 PM
Fixed Dragon Scales. Sorry about that.

I can't remove the concept of "better defense" from the build. Look at the Dragonfire Adept in Dragon Magic. There are 3 instances where the class gets a boost either to hit points, AC, or damage reduction. Thematically, there needs to be something to give it some defensive properties to stay true to the original design. The core attributes to the DA were the defensive properties, breath weapon with the breath effects, and the warlock chassis.

Dragonkin: I do agree that this doesn't really work. The patron capstones need to be awesome and make you think "Wow." I've looked at the other 14th level abilities, and they all have something to do with a school of magic. Archfey has illusions, the Fiend has conjuration, and the GOO has enchantment. Keeping with that concept the only other two schools to give to the DA that make thematic sense is transmutation or evocation. Transform into a lesser dragon/drake or give the breath weapon a once per long rest "big bang" effect. I'm a little stuck. Looking at Dragon Magic, the whole point of the DA was emulating not necessarily the dragon, but the dragon's power; thus "dragonfire" instead of "dragonfire." Plus I don't want to copy "The Elder Wyrm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479936-Warlock-Patron-The-Elder-Wyrm-PEACH&highlight=elder+wyrm)."

tl;dr aside: removed "fear" from dragonkin as "Dreadful Presence" pretty much does that anyway, and removed the size category change.

Thanks for reading.

2016-07-16, 01:05 PM
Well to be honest for general resilience the Fiend is just that synergistic that you aren't going to make it that hardy with what you have without it being overpowered. The only thing I can say is that maybe as a once per long rest ability you can become a young dragon of your choice with concentration up to 10 minutes at most. The only difference is that you may still cast your Warlock spells and any save DC uses your spell DC instead.

2016-07-17, 03:14 AM
Updated (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SJvITiPI)

Consulted the Monster Manual on what to do for a defensive option. I think this was a good compromise.

Dragon Scales had a nice mechanic to it, which I'll shelve for later use.

The thing about turning into a dragon for a limited time can seem like the natural way to go, unless your DM allows for true polymorph as your mystic incarnum spell at 17th level, or more specifically turning yourself into a dragon permanently. That's what someone who reveres the dragon might do, which is why I didn't make shape shifting one of the DA's abilities. "Essence of the Wyrm" feels good and relatively balanced.

Let me know what you all think.

2017-04-24, 07:44 AM
Hello all, I decided to go back to my Dragonfire Adept. Made quite a few changes reflective of how dragons are in 5e. I'm hoping the new changes don't step on the base class's toes or on the toes of any other class. I appreciate any PEACHES, so thanks in advance.

Enjoy. (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SJvITiPI)