Advice for a new rogue?

[Falcii]

One of my groups is starting a new drow campaign (so no LA but all the stats lol) and I was volunteered as the token skill monkey. To that end I picked up a rogue. I am not totally clear on how to get sneak attack versus surprize attack or whatever and I'm probably the worst martial player ever but here's what i got. I'm still not sure if I should be male or female because apparently that matters to drow. I really want to dig into the thing where i am my clerics body guard and assassin. my dex is Meh but my Int is ridiculous and we will be drowning in feats (one each level). We are starting at level one but have been promised 2 levels per session for the first month. Suggestions for feats to aim for and skills to max out on a non face rogue would be wildly helpful. Also are skill tricks worthwhile?

[Falcii]

Btw this is an underdark campaign, it looks to be mostly political based

[Zakier]

Before I offer advice, is this 3.5? If so what are the prestige class limits in your campaign and will your dm permit 3.0 prestige classes?

[Zakier]

Assuming like most drow you are from the underdark then you will probably want to be male.

The under dark drow have a very religious/noble houses based matriarchy. Guards, swordmaster, workers etc are all males while priest and Noble house heads are all female.

Your cleric friend will want be female.

Good choice on rogu/assassin

Personally my favorite play style.

There are a few links you'll want to out.

The rogue handbook and the assassin handbook.

If you're interested in using poison check out arsenic and lace the poisoners handbook.

There is also a guide called a handful of d6's that's all about making sneak attack better.

All of these can be found online.

As suggestions, two weapon fighting, weapon finesse and craven are my go to start feats. There lower negatives to hit with while dual welding really help.
craven is two fold, you take a -2 to will saves vs fear effects but you get 1 extra point of damage per level to your sneak attack. so 1d6+1.

That bonus grows every level.

Dark stalker is another good Feat .

Enemies with extraordinary senses like blind fight and tremor sense still have to roll a check notice you if you have this feat. normally they don't. on top of that an enemy that has 360 degree vision normally can't be flanked, with this feat you can flank them.

Insightful reflexes allowed you to use your intelligence modifier for reflex saves instead of Dex.

Flaws if approved can give you all of these feats at Level 1. Unless the requirements day otherwise.

Taking assassin at level 6 gives you 1 sneak attack die sooner than you normally would have gotten it.

If you are able to take a second prestige and your dm approves 3.0 prestiges I suggest Telflammer shadowlord. The entry requirements are a little steep and feat heavy but the feats are really useful even if you can't take the prestige class.

Blind fight, Dodge, mobility, Spring Attack

Dodge +1 bonus to AC versus one target you designate during combat, you can change this during your turn ask you want

Mobility You get a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity caused when you move out of or within a threatened area.

Spring Attack, able to split your movement action and take an attacking action mid stride.

Blind fight from the srd



n melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit (see Concealment, page 152). An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don't lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn't get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible (see Table 8-5: Attack Roll Modifiers and Table 8-6: Armor Class Modifiers, page 151). The invisible attacker's bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however. You take only half the usual penalty to speed for being unable to see. Darkness and poor visibility in general reduces your speed to three-quarters normal, instead of one-half (see Table 9-4: Hampered Movement, page 163).

All of these feats can be taken at level 1 with the highest requirement being Dex 13 or better

[Zakier]

And if it's a true underdark campaign the murder of pride and for front of politics

[noce]

You're not going to excel in melee if your dex is meh.
Good rogue feats to go in melee are Craven, Weapon Finesse, Staggering Strike. If you feel, dip Swordsage to get the prerequisites for Shadow Blade.


Is rogue mandatory? If you want to be a skill monkey in a drow political based campaign, but lack the dex to go rogue, go Beguiler instead.
Lots of skill points, every class skill you need, INT-based full casting, fantastic spell list in a political campaign, perfect blending with drow fluff.
You'll be an arcane skillmonkey rather than melee, but it seems ok for you since you said you're not a good meleer.

[BowStreetRunner]

You're not going to excel in melee if your dex is meh.
Good rogue feats to go in melee are Craven, Weapon Finesse, Staggering Strike. If you feel, dip Swordsage to get the prerequisites for Shadow Blade.


Is rogue mandatory? If you want to be a skill monkey in a drow political based campaign, but lack the dex to go rogue, go Beguiler instead.
Lots of skill points, every class skill you need, INT-based full casting, fantastic spell list in a political campaign, perfect blending with drow fluff.
You'll be an arcane skillmonkey rather than melee, but it seems ok for you since you said you're not a good meleer.

Another INT-based option would be Factotum from Dungeonscape. At 3rd level the Brains over Brawn ability gives you INT to STR and DEX checks and STR and DEX skill checks, which will help a bit too.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Is rogue mandatory? If you want to be a skill monkey in a drow political based campaign, but lack the dex to go rogue, go Beguiler instead.
Lots of skill points, every class skill you need, INT-based full casting, fantastic spell list in a political campaign, perfect blending with drow fluff.
You'll be an arcane skillmonkey rather than melee, but it seems ok for you since you said you're not a good meleer.

While normally Beguiler is a good choice for a casting skillmonkey in a drow campaign it's not optimal.
A lot of enemies native to the underdark are either outright immune to mind-affecting or have SR, which is going to invalidate a big chunk of your spell list.
You can obviously work around that at higher levels, but at low levels it's an important consideration imo.

If you're going for the casting skillmonkey i'd suggest Rogue/Wizard/Unseen Seer instead so you get access to better non mind-affecting and SR:no spells. And/or Assay Spell Resistance.
If you go Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X you get your spells at the same levels as a Beguiler.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

One of my groups is starting a new drow campaign (so no LA but all the stats lol) and I was volunteered as the token skill monkey. To that end I picked up a rogue. I am not totally clear on how to get sneak attack versus surprize attack or whatever and I'm probably the worst martial player ever but here's what i got. I'm still not sure if I should be male or female because apparently that matters to drow. I really want to dig into the thing where i am my clerics body guard and assassin. my dex is Meh but my Int is ridiculous and we will be drowning in feats (one each level). We are starting at level one but have been promised 2 levels per session for the first month. Suggestions for feats to aim for and skills to max out on a non face rogue would be wildly helpful. Also are skill tricks worthwhile?

Skill tricks are absolutely worthwhile. In fact, for many builds they're essential.

I'd also strongly suggest having a look at the x stat to y bonus master thread.

[Zakier]

Kinda missed his question guys. S/he wasn't Asking for class builds. They asked for feat focus/skill focus on a particular build. Lol

[Troacctid]

While normally Beguiler is a good choice for a casting skillmonkey in a drow campaign it's not optimal.
A lot of enemies native to the underdark are either outright immune to mind-affecting or have SR, which is going to invalidate a big chunk of your spell list.
You can obviously work around that at higher levels, but at low levels it's an important consideration imo.
Gotta disagree—beguilers have a good amount of powerful illusion and divination spells that don't care about any of that. Their casting will always be relevant, and it's still the best "rogue" class by a wide margin.

However, if you prefer a more classic rogue but you want better Int synergy, I recommend a psychic rogue (archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), which is a great class with all the good rogue stuff plus some very nice magic abilities. I actually think psychic rogue would be excellent for you, because it opens up psionic feats. The extra feats are going to be huge for psionic classes, because there's so much they can do with them that other classes can't.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Gotta disagree—beguilers have a good amount of powerful illusion and divination spells that don't care about any of that. Their casting will always be relevant, and it's still the best "rogue" class by a wide margin.

However, if you prefer a more classic rogue but you want better Int synergy, I recommend a psychic rogue (archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), which is a great class with all the good rogue stuff plus some very nice magic abilities. I actually think psychic rogue would be excellent for you, because it opens up psionic feats. The extra feats are going to be huge for psionic classes, because there's so much they can do with them that other classes can't.

All the first level spells that Beguilers get that are remotely usable offensively target will saves. All except Obscuring Mist. They're also all SR:yes. The vast majority are mind-affecting (all except Silent Image).
The OP plays in a political drow campaign. Drow get +2 to will saves against spells and SR 11 + level. Starting at level 1 as a Beguiler means every spell you have until level 4 that has any value in hindering your most likely enemy will be doubly crippled. Except Obscuring Mist.
Yes, a higher level Beguiler can work around that (somewhat). I said that in the post you quoted. But that doesn't help much when your main class feature is mostly useless for 4 levels of gameplay.

I do agree with your second point though. Psychic Rogues are awesome and a lot of fun to play. Getting a feat at every level should benefit one enormously.

[noce]

Kinda missed his question guys. S/he wasn't Asking for class builds. They asked for feat focus/skill focus on a particular build. Lol

I know, but he was asking for help to build a meh dex rogue, with little melee experience.
The only thing that comes to my mind was to suggest another class.

[Troacctid]

All the first level spells that Beguilers get that are remotely usable offensively target will saves. All except Obscuring Mist. They're also all SR:yes. The vast majority are mind-affecting (all except Silent Image).
The OP plays in a political drow campaign. Drow get +2 to will saves against spells and SR 11 + level. Starting at level 1 as a Beguiler means every spell you have until level 4 that has any value in hindering your most likely enemy will be doubly crippled. Except Obscuring Mist.
Yes, a higher level Beguiler can work around that (somewhat). I said that in the post you quoted. But that doesn't help much when your main class feature is mostly useless for 4 levels of gameplay.
Yeah, but your spells aren't there mainly for their offensive capabilities, they're there mainly for utility, stealth, and defense. Which they're still great for.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Yeah, but your spells aren't there mainly for their offensive capabilities, they're there mainly for utility, stealth, and defense. Which they're still great for.

That's nice, but in the vast majority of campaigns combat happens. So, Mage Armor and Expeditious Retreat? Comprehend Languages? Disguise Self?
First level beguilers aren't exactly spoilt for choice. They survive low level combat by using stuff like Sleep and Color Spray to make sure nobody gets to attack them in the first place.

Normally that works great. Wizards do the same thing to great effect. But when your enemies are likely to all have SR that negates your spells 50% of the time and a bonus to will saves they're crap options.
Wizards can switch to Grease, summons or SR:no blasting like the lesser Orb of X line. Beguilers can't, because they have nothing that doesn't target will or is SR:no, let alone both.

Even a skillmonkey needs to have some way to contribute in combat, and a low-dex Beguiler has to use his spells because they're sure not going to do anything worthwhile with weapons.

[Troacctid]

Wizards and sorcerers have the same problem. It's an arcane caster thing. (And Grease and Summon Monster I certainly aren't going to help you at CL 1.) You'll grow out of it fast when you're leveling up twice a session.

Anyway, you still have the same weapon proficiencies as a rogue, so it's not like you can't just shoot people. I imagine a 1st level rogue probably isn't getting sneak attack damage on ranged attacks THAT often anyway, so you'll do almost the same damage.