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View Full Version : DM Help So a player used 'wish' to become a Pit Fiend. What is it, and what happens next?



Odessa333
2016-07-10, 10:08 AM
Hey all!

So as the topic says, I had an interesting scenario arise in one of my games, where a character is using a wish to become a pit fiend. With wish being as powerful as it is, I don't see why it couldn't do such a thing, so I said yes. I'm having the transformation be slow, so as to give me time to look into the repercussions of such a thing. As full disclosure here, I tend to avoid devils/demons/celestials in my games so I know VERY little about pit fiends, devils, etc. Google brings up a lot of information about what they look like, their powers, but I've found little about their motivations, if they are free willed or bound to (X), what (if anything) they eat, those crazy details about how these creatures exist.

I'd love any information you lovely folks could give me about these things, and suggestions for repercussions to such a wish. I have to believe that SOMEONE is going to have issues with such a wish, but I'm not sure who that would be, exactly.

Thank you for your time!

Vitruviansquid
2016-07-10, 10:16 AM
Shoot, I dunno.

Make your player feel like digging and then living in a pit, I guess?

Might want to specify about your setting or game.

Spiryt
2016-07-10, 10:26 AM
Well, stated as such, without clauses like 'body of a Pit Fiend', 'shape of a Pit Fiend' the effect of the spell would probably be complete change, no?

So whoever the character had been, now s/he is an entity of pure evil and oppression, with mindset rather alien to any mortal?

Leith
2016-07-10, 10:30 AM
I don't think wish is normally powerful enough to permanently transform a person into a devil. But assuming that it is, pit fiends normally have a limited amount of free will; they are Lawful Evil and they serve the dukes and archdukes of the Nine Hells.
How you run it is up to you but the rulers of the hells can transform their underlings into whatever form they wish, its how a lowly devil becomes a pit fiend and vice versa. Also, the king of hell, Asmodeus, can destroy any devil at will.
So you can use that as a source of conflict or just use it to screw your player over for making a stupid wish.

The Glyphstone
2016-07-10, 10:36 AM
Sounds like your player just Wished themselves into becoming an NPC.

Odessa333
2016-07-10, 11:10 AM
Yea, I warned him that such a wish would likely result in him becoming an NPC at best, and the player was ok with it. I'm currently planning on giving him one session to play with the results of this wish before I have PLOT happen and he rolls up a new character. I'm doing my research to figure out what kind of thing the PLOT should be, and what this kind of change would do to a person.

The game is the curse of Strahd in D&D 5E. There's a luck blade in the module, and the players found it. I 'think' the player is hoping to eliminate Strahd and become the new lord of Barovia when the game ends, but that's my best guess.

Koo Rehtorb
2016-07-10, 11:15 AM
Ask the player what he's intending to happen as a result of this. Get on the same page.

Kaerou
2016-07-10, 12:52 PM
At that sort of level, you might want to look in to moving your campaign to planescape if you want to keep him as a PC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape

http://mimir.net/main.shtml

A pit fiend is not totally unusual as a -person- in sigil, cutter! Everything is shades of grey in planescape.

But anywhere else really.. he should probably find himself overwhelmed with evil urges that he finds it basically impossible to ignore.

He'll be Lawful Evil, so it wouldn't be crazy evil: moreso becoming the ultimate evil lawyer/mafia boss.

His body and soul would be becoming one: and both would be getting corrupted by the influence of the nine hells.

He should basically, at that level of power, be drawing paladins and clerics and all sorts of do-gooders out to wipe the evil form the land. He might attract dark cults out to worship him and do his bidding, he might even attract demons out to foil his plans and kill him in the most bloody ways they can.

nedz
2016-07-10, 01:15 PM
Sounds like your player just Wished themselves into becoming an NPC.

this, though you can take your time and play with the transformation until it gets old.

hymer
2016-07-10, 01:33 PM
Since this is mostly brainstorming, let me just say that the exact edition and planar construction (before or after Planescape especially) has something to do with this.


their motivations

To accumulate and enjoy power by the means of being part of (and ideally running) a coherent organization, and by increasing the power of that organization.


if they are free willed or bound to (X)

They are free-willed to the point that they are law and evil incarnate. They also have superiors in the hierarchy, who could quash them if they chose to.


what (if anything) they eat

IIRC, what they eat isn't spelled out. If you decide they don't need to eat, you won't get in trouble, I'm sure. :smallsmile: I think their tastes vary by individual, but most would likely like the notion of biting into an underling that has failed them. I expect they enjoy sentient meat cooked to precise (and brutally painful) specifications.


I have to believe that SOMEONE is going to have issues with such a wish, but I'm not sure who that would be, exactly.

Since the hieararchy is so rigid, the appearance of an additional pit fiend is very disorderly. It needs to be eliminated or incorporated. Depending on how it plays out, there may come a wave of various outer plane factions trying to persuade mortals to wish themselves into powerful members of a faction to strengthen it (if it works out well) or rattle it (if it doesn't).

Daedroth
2016-07-10, 04:23 PM
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)


I want to became a pit fiend

Congratulations, you are now a hole

RickAllison
2016-07-10, 04:48 PM
I want to became a pit fiend

Congratulations, you are now a hole

With horns. Maybe a tail to drag people down with.

gooddragon1
2016-07-10, 05:35 PM
Wish duplicates the spell polymorph any object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm) and turns him into a pit fiend. Would probably last a week. Could be permanent depending on his int and/or size.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-07-10, 07:00 PM
Pit fiends are powerful. They command armies of devils, oversee the overseers of the soul harvest, and answer directly to the Dukes of Hell. As such, they are generally Hell's head honcho in whatever room they happen to be in. I don't know about the exact 5e mechanics, but these guys are meant to be top-notch, the most powerful thing you can fight before epic levels.

You can definitely play pit fiends as PC, though, especially if you take a narrow interpretation of what a pit fiend is, that is, if you don't include the political and social functions in Hell, and just give your player the body and powers of a pit fiend. Again, I don't know the 5e mechanics, but you can probably just treat it as multiclassing, and grant the full powers and abilities of a pit fiend over the course of five to ten levels (in lieu of other class abilities, of course).

bulbaquil
2016-07-10, 07:03 PM
I don't think wish is normally powerful enough to permanently transform a person into a devil. But assuming that it is, pit fiends normally have a limited amount of free will; they are Lawful Evil and they serve the dukes and archdukes of the Nine Hells.
How you run it is up to you but the rulers of the hells can transform their underlings into whatever form they wish, its how a lowly devil becomes a pit fiend and vice versa. Also, the king of hell, Asmodeus, can destroy any devil at will.
So you can use that as a source of conflict or just use it to screw your player over for making a stupid wish.

"Hi, guys, Asmodeus here. We've got a report of an unauthorized pit fiend traipsing around this area. Is that you? Huh, so that's how it happened? How very... against... protocol."

Kami2awa
2016-07-11, 02:11 AM
If they have agreed that this will turn them into an NPC after a short time, I'd roll with that. Roleplay the transition. All through the next session, the new pit fiend is hearing the voices of devil lords, pushing them to do evil acts and offering enticing rewards and contracts of servitude.

Yes, in theory they could enslave the new pit fiend instantly, but that's not convoluted enough for a devil, and it's no fun!

Finally, the player gets a big send off as the devil lord appears in person to claim his own. From there, you could even use the pit fiend as a future antagonist (either directly, or as a force acting in the background, depending on the power level of your PCs).

Cernor
2016-07-11, 04:36 AM
The thing about becoming a Pit Fiend - actually becoming one, rather than simply having the powers of one - is that they got their power through thousands of years of subtle manipulation; and their power is truly measured in the hundreds of thousands of mortals and lesser devils at their command. If you simply have the body of a Pit Fiend but none of the power or influence, you're a nobody; just some stupid mortal who thought he could get one over on the infernal hierarchy.

So give him the powers of a Pit Fiend! Instantly, with no initial costs (other than the stress for wishing above the standard). Let him enjoy it for 81 (or some other mystically significant number of) days before he gets summoned before the Big Man. Asmodeus likes his ambition, and wants to properly integrate him into the infernal hierarchy. While it's an unusual situation, there are protocols to deal with such a thing. Refusal, of course, means death. And once the process of flaying his soul into oblivion over a hundred thousand years begins, it cannot be stopped.

The string, of course, being that the protocol is an instant demotion to imp, and a one-hundred year window to prove himself worthy of infernal power before he is crushed and his soul devoured. Devils aren't nice, they don't play by the rules they think you do, and as soon as you think you have one over on them they'll prove you wrong in a painful and terrifying manner. So give him his power. Let him enjoy it. And then show that actions have consequences, and Asmodeus is the harshest of taskmasters.

kraftcheese
2016-07-11, 05:10 AM
The thing about becoming a Pit Fiend - actually becoming one, rather than simply having the powers of one - is that they got their power through thousands of years of subtle manipulation; and their power is truly measured in the hundreds of thousands of mortals and lesser devils at their command. If you simply have the body of a Pit Fiend but none of the power or influence, you're a nobody; just some stupid mortal who thought he could get one over on the infernal hierarchy.

So give him the powers of a Pit Fiend! Instantly, with no initial costs (other than the stress for wishing above the standard). Let him enjoy it for 81 (or some other mystically significant number of) days before he gets summoned before the Big Man. Asmodeus likes his ambition, and wants to properly integrate him into the infernal hierarchy. While it's an unusual situation, there are protocols to deal with such a thing. Refusal, of course, means death. And once the process of flaying his soul into oblivion over a hundred thousand years begins, it cannot be stopped.

The string, of course, being that the protocol is an instant demotion to imp, and a one-hundred year window to prove himself worthy of infernal power before he is crushed and his soul devoured. Devils aren't nice, they don't play by the rules they think you do, and as soon as you think you have one over on them they'll prove you wrong in a painful and terrifying manner. So give him his power. Let him enjoy it. And then show that actions have consequences, and Asmodeus is the harshest of taskmasters.

It's a bit mean, but I'll be damned if it's not a suitably Devilish thing to do!

SethoMarkus
2016-07-11, 03:39 PM
Plenty of good answers. If the player said they understood their PC would become an NPC I'd leave it at that. As far as what to do in the session(s) playing out the tranformation, I suggest you both read Red Fel's Lawful Evil Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil).

Red Fel would be the best inspiration here.

Red Fel is busy, but this sort of thing is His domain.

LibraryOgre
2016-07-11, 05:42 PM
If you're playing 3.x, then I'd come up with a monster class for the Pit Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#pitFiend), and immediately change the character and all his levels to that. I'd make it a 20 level class, so he's building up to a full Pit Fiend, slowly becoming 18HD of OH MY GOD!

ClintACK
2016-07-11, 06:19 PM
Ooh. A Wish!

Keep in mind that to become a Pit Fiend is a process that takes many years, as one rises up the infernal hierarchy.

I'd instantly transform the PC into a nearly mindless Lemure... then form a cocoon and emerge (after a short rest) as a level appropriate Devil -- a Devil of a CR equal to or a bit lower than the PC's level -- putting him on the *path* to becoming a Pit Fiend. He should lose all his character class levels and *become* that Devil. Let him metamorphose into a more powerful Devil as the party levels up over the course of the adventure. (Bearded Devil, then Barbed Devil, then Chain Devil... finishing the adventure as a Bone Devil when the party is 10th level.) He can reach Pit Fiend if the party goes on to make it to 20th level.

Lawful Evil isn't awful for the party -- he should still value the party and their mission, he's just a lot more willing to brutally torture an innocent villager now, you know, in the interest of saving the village from the bad guys. Why are you looking at me like that?

Red Fel
2016-07-15, 12:39 PM
Plenty of good answers. If the player said they understood their PC would become an NPC I'd leave it at that. As far as what to do in the session(s) playing out the tranformation, I suggest you both read Red Fel's Lawful Evil Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil).

Red Fel would be the best inspiration here.

Red Fel is busy, but this sort of thing is His domain.

Red Fel was on vacation. Red Fel is back now. Red Fel is here.


Hey all!

So as the topic says, I had an interesting scenario arise in one of my games, where a character is using a wish to become a pit fiend. With wish being as powerful as it is, I don't see why it couldn't do such a thing, so I said yes. I'm having the transformation be slow, so as to give me time to look into the repercussions of such a thing. As full disclosure here, I tend to avoid devils/demons/celestials in my games so I know VERY little about pit fiends, devils, etc. Google brings up a lot of information about what they look like, their powers, but I've found little about their motivations, if they are free willed or bound to (X), what (if anything) they eat, those crazy details about how these creatures exist.

I'd love any information you lovely folks could give me about these things, and suggestions for repercussions to such a wish. I have to believe that SOMEONE is going to have issues with such a wish, but I'm not sure who that would be, exactly.

Thank you for your time!

Okay. Well, first things first, if someone is trying to work material with which you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable into a game, it is incumbent on you, as DM, to talk to them about it out of game. Get a feel for what they're trying to do before you say yes, and then, if you do say yes, do it with eyes open - research the subject and be ready.

Yeah, this seems to be a slight departure from my usual view of DMing (which tends to follow improv's "yes and" rule), but not really - if you're not familiar with material or subject matter, it's not wrong to say so, and to keep it out of your game - or at least on the periphery - until and unless you become familiar.

So, here, you've got a player who wants to become an Outsider. You're unfamiliar with Outsiders, and apparently with how Wish works as well, because you're letting this thing go more or less as the player wanted. So let's delve into a few things.

First, what is a Pit Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#pitFiend)? Short version, and incredibly powerful Devil. Long version, a near-epic Lawful Evil Outsider with a host of powerful abilities. A Pit Fiend has 18 racial hit dice - which basically makes him a challenge for level 18 characters. I don't know how powerful this character is - he has to be pretty powerful to have access to Wish - but this creature is a powerhouse in its own right. It deals solid damage, it has monstrous resistances, it has nasty abilities and it can summon cronies. It is a beast.

And the player in question wants that, plus character levels. Right there, that instantly becomes epic. As in, level 20+.

Unless you use Wish as intended. You see, Wish doesn't just do what you want. There is a list of what Wish can do. Specifically (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm):
A wish can produce any one of the following effects.
Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.
Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.
Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.
Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish. A wish can never restore the experience point loss from casting a spell or the level or Constitution loss from being raised from the dead.
Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level.
Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)
So, what has your player asked for? Basically, one of two things. Either he is duplicating a spell of 8th level or lower, namely Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm), or he's trying to "use a wish to produce greater effects than these." And since he has foolishly given you such an open-ended wish, you, as DM, may choose whichever you like.

The easiest and safest method, which may frustrate the player somewhat, it to treat it as a duplication of PAO. If that's the case, let's consider the duration involved. Is it the same kingdom? Yes - both the base creature and the transformed form are animal, rather than vegetable or mineral. That's +5. Are they the same class? No. Unless they're both Outsiders, they're too different. Are they the same size? Probably not. Most PC races are Medium, a Pit Fiend is Large. Are they related? No. Does the transformed form have the same or lower intelligence as the original form? A Pit Fiend has 26 Int, so probably not. That's a total of +5 duration (and that's assuming we count Outsiders as belonging in the Animal Kingdom, as opposed to being some enigmatic fourth Kingdom), or 12 hour duration. So the Wish turns the PC into a Pit Fiend for 12 hours, and you're done.

The nastier method is to treat it as a "greater effects" wish. And there are lots of things you can do to someone who thinks that way.


"Hi, guys, Asmodeus here. We've got a report of an unauthorized pit fiend traipsing around this area. Is that you? Huh, so that's how it happened? How very... against... protocol."

This is one. Pit Fiends are high in the hierarchy of the Hells, and the Hells are extremely regulated and rigid. They put the Lawful in Lawful Evil. (And the Evil too, while we're at it.) A PC who becomes a Pit Fiend, gradually or suddenly, is going to draw a lot of attention from the Hells. He will in all likelihood be dragged before Asmodeus or one of his representatives and expected to submit to their authority. Even if he isn't actively taken, as a Lawful Evil Outsider, he is composed of cosmic Law and Evil; his LE tendencies (if any) will become much harder to suppress, and he will be swayed by the will of the Hells whether he wishes to be or not. And as a Pit Fiend, subject to the will of the Hells, he can be demoted - or, as noted below:


Ooh. A Wish!

Keep in mind that to become a Pit Fiend is a process that takes many years, as one rises up the infernal hierarchy.

I'd instantly transform the PC into a nearly mindless Lemure... then form a cocoon and emerge (after a short rest) as a level appropriate Devil -- a Devil of a CR equal to or a bit lower than the PC's level -- putting him on the *path* to becoming a Pit Fiend. He should lose all his character class levels and *become* that Devil. Let him metamorphose into a more powerful Devil as the party levels up over the course of the adventure. (Bearded Devil, then Barbed Devil, then Chain Devil... finishing the adventure as a Bone Devil when the party is 10th level.) He can reach Pit Fiend if the party goes on to make it to 20th level.

This. A Pit Fiend isn't intrinsically a Pit Fiend - it's a mass of cosmic LE shaped by the will of the Hells into a suitable form, and it can be reshaped just as easily. In other words, it's a great way to shift him into an NPC.

Alternatively, make it simpler. He wished to be a Pit Fiend, not himself as a Pit Fiend. Give him the Pit Fiend powers and hit dice, and take away his class levels. His racial bonuses, gone. His class benefits, gone. His skill ranks, gone. He is a Pit Fiend, fully, not the person he was.

A "greater benefits" Wish is a Monkey's Paw - you may get what you wanted, but it comes at a greater cost than you anticipated. So play that up.

Âmesang
2016-07-15, 01:29 PM
3rd Edition's Savage Species allows for creature transformation via wish without any apparent limit, with possible exception to abilities gained:
Casting wish to become a new kind of creature, with full access to all extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural abilities, while retaining Intelligence, memory, and personality, falls under the "wishing for greater effects" rules in the spell description. While this is the quickest method of transformation and potentially the least expensive, it has substantial risks.

The DM may, for instance, require the spellcaster to make a Spellcraft check. For every point by which the check result exceeds 20, the transforming character gains a 5% chance to have the goal creature's abilities. The transforming character must roll for each ability. For instance, if the spellcaster gets a 28 on her Spellcraft check, the transforming character has a 40% chance to have any of the goal creature's abilities. He rolls for each special attack or special quality, and each time he gets a 61 or higher on d%, he gains that ability. It is entirely possible to fail every roll and gain the characteristics of a goal creature but none of the creature's special attacks or special qualities.

Reboot
2016-07-15, 07:53 PM
Unless you use Wish as intended. You see, Wish doesn't just do what you want. There is a list of what Wish can do. Specifically (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm):
So, what has your player asked for? Basically, one of two things. Either he is duplicating a spell of 8th level or lower, namely Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm), or he's trying to "use a wish to produce greater effects than these." And since he has foolishly given you such an open-ended wish, you, as DM, may choose whichever you like.

He said they're playing 5e, not 3.5e/d20. The exact wording of the spell isn't that different (it can duplicate any spell of 8th level or lower), but there are side-effects including that, if you do something other than duplicating an 8th/lower spell, your strength drops to 3 for 2d4 days and have a 1 in 3 chance of never being able to cast it again. It appears, from a quick search, that the closest counterpart to PAO is True Polymorph, a 9th level spell, however...

Zman
2016-07-15, 08:00 PM
Ok, turn him into a Pit Fiend with all the trappings. You now have an unbound powerful Devil that is a massive target. Assume the Arch Devils know instantaneously when a new powerful Devil springs into existence and each wants to break him into servitude or utterly destroy him. Or the heavens view an unbound Pit Fiend as a violation of the laws of the universe and send a Solar to destroy him. Basically, let him play it for a session or so before he is hunted and destroyed/forced into servitude and becomes an NPC.... An NPC with an unleathly fascination with the party hellbent on destroying them.

Slipperychicken
2016-07-15, 09:20 PM
The wish granter misinterprets the phrase "pit fiend" and gives him devilish body odor that can only be suppressed by blessed deodorant. It probably makes creatures near him save against nausea.

After the misconception is made clear, the wish-granter facepalms, laughs to himself while undoing the spell, and explains he can't make the wish-ee into such a powerful demon. He doesn't count the wish against him, however, since it was a mistake on the part of the wish-granter.

RickAllison
2016-07-15, 11:17 PM
The wish granter misinterprets the phrase "pit fiend" and gives him devilish body odor that can only be suppressed by blessed deodorant. It probably makes creatures near him save against nausea.

After the misconception is made clear, the wish-granter facepalms, laughs to himself while undoing the spell, and explains he can't make the wish-ee into such a powerful demon. He doesn't count the wish against him, however, since it was a mistake on the part of the wish-granter.

And what does the nausea condition give? Maybe he doesn't want that blessed deodorant after all :smallwink:

Mith
2016-07-15, 11:34 PM
Or the heavens view an unbound Pit Fiend as a violation of the laws of the universe and send a Solar to destroy him.

Gating in a Solar against Strahd isn't a bad idea.

I personally would go with the turn him into a Devil with the same CR as a character would be (since at CR = level, I think the player becomes too powerful in a lot of cases). Perhaps some of the monster statblock needs to be modfied in terms of spell casting.

I would strat this with the long rest the player is in a slumber they cannot wake from (so if they are to take watch they cannot) where the character gets a dream summons by Amodeus saying

"SUCH POWER AS YOU WISHED FOR IS NOT FREE! YOU WILL HAVE ONE CHANCE TO PROVE YOURSELF"

Or something like that.

Slipperychicken
2016-07-15, 11:39 PM
And what does the nausea condition give? Maybe he doesn't want that blessed deodorant after all :smallwink:

Most of the games I've seen, it usually means wasting your actions vomiting and retching everywhere.

If he thinks an aura of stench is a worthwhile debuff (which works on friend and foe alike), I'd say that's a valid use for the wish. The genie would probably just keep laughing at him for actually wanting to be one of the stinkiest bastards alive. You don't even need monkey's paw shenanigans to make someone regret wishing for that.

RickAllison
2016-07-16, 12:02 AM
Most of the games I've seen, it usually means wasting your actions vomiting and retching everywhere.

If he thinks an aura of stench is a worthwhile debuff (which works on friend and foe alike), I'd say that's a valid use for the wish. The genie would probably just keep laughing at him for actually wanting to be one of the stinkiest bastards alive. You don't even need monkey's paw shenanigans to make someone regret wishing for that.

He might not be welcome in a town, but who wouldn't want to hire a soldier who can cause armies to stand their retching at his putrid stench. Any enemies with less than great Con will be powerless against him, and then he only needs to address ranged weapons. Heck, any creatures with Keen Scent Should get disadvantage on the save!

With the riches he gains from being a one-man army, he can afford to have a wizard friend develop a spell that makes the target find the scent pleasing and (with a higher level slot) arousing. Eventually, he establishes a large village known to be uninhabitable by the majority, but indestructible in battle as it induces nausea up to a mile away.

trikkydik
2016-07-16, 12:24 AM
Sounds like your player just Wished themselves into becoming an NPC.

ROFLMAO!!!!!

That's exactly what it sounds like to me.



pit fiends normally have a limited amount of free will; they are Lawful Evil and they serve the dukes and archdukes of the Nine Hells.

That statement is highly accurate about devils.

Demons are known to be Chaotic Evil, when Devils are known to be Lawful Evil.

goto124
2016-07-16, 01:05 AM
Yea, I warned him that such a wish would likely result in him becoming an NPC at best, and the player was ok with it. I'm currently planning on giving him one session to play with the results of this wish before I have PLOT happen and he rolls up a new character. I'm doing my research to figure out what kind of thing the PLOT should be, and what this kind of change would do to a person.

OP said this in the first few posts of the thread. Seems a few posters have forgotten or otherwise not read it.

Logosloki
2016-07-16, 07:51 AM
As the player has already said they will accept that they will become an NPC, let them transform into a pit fiend with all the trappings, no monkey paw. They get a grace session where him and his former allies (or current allies, or minions, depending on what his inflated LE ego will call them) burninate through something big and fun and not exactly plot related. Then they have someone up in the hierarchy of Devils come along and give them the join me or die line and the player can decide whether to accept the sick hook up of being the underling of some new piece of up and coming devil or duke it out with the devil for a winner take all fight to the death. Win or lose or join the Pit fiend leaves this prime material coil and onto the high stakes planes where they get to bet their new army (or command the army of their boss) on some real estate.

Alternatively, the player becomes themselves after a while and now has a cool berserk button they can access via wish but only in PLOT circumstances.

TL;DR They are being cool with it, so let them have a little bit of fun and then the character gets on the bus.

the_david
2016-07-16, 08:09 AM
The PC instantly dies and goes to hell. There he starts out as a petitioner/lemure and has to climb up to the position of Pit Fiend. Something that will take centuries...

trikkydik
2016-07-16, 12:43 PM
The PC instantly dies and goes to hell. There he starts out as a petitioner/lemure and has to climb up to the position of Pit Fiend. Something that will take centuries...

Seriously, here's how i would DM the situation:

~PC- casts wish
~DM- "What do you wish for?"
~PC- "To become a pit fiend"
~DM- a gate opens before you, and Satan himself emerges from the other side.
~Satan- "Hmmmmmmm," With an evil grin. "I was told someone wants to make a deal with the devil. IS IT YOU!?" points toward PC
~PC- "Yes Satan, i would like to become a pit fiend."
~Satan- "Very well, step on through this gate and your desires will be fulfilled."
~PC- steps through gate
~DM- Gate closes, and satan tortures the PC for all eternity, your character is now dead.

Thank you for playing.

The Glyphstone
2016-07-16, 12:50 PM
"Satan'? That's not the name of an archdevil or evil god in any D&D cosmology I'm familiar with.:smallbiggrin:

Bohandas
2016-07-16, 12:54 PM
I don't think wish is normally powerful enough to permanently transform a person into a devil.
Not a powerful one like a pit fiend at any rate. Perhaps it turns them into a lemure and over the centuries they work their way up?

Âmesang
2016-07-16, 04:32 PM
"Satan'? That's not the name of an archdevil or evil god in any D&D cosmology I'm familiar with.:smallbiggrin:
That's 'cause he lost out to Asmodeus. :smalltongue: Book of Vile Darkness, page 143.

(Granted this is a fiend who got banished back to Hell by a pair of bards, so…)

Gildedragon
2016-07-16, 07:38 PM
If it is 3.X retrain all their levels to the pit fiend class (savage species's or homebrew) keep playing

Braininthejar2
2016-07-16, 08:06 PM
This looks to me like a typical case of "wishing for too much" - according to Epic Level Handbook, if the wish exceeds the power available, the spell should warp and do something weird.

- polymorphed, with the shape, and some stats, but no powers.

- covered in permanent illusion that convinces mortals and himself, but not devils

- riding shotgun in an actual pit fiend's head, getting tangled in his political schemes, while the devil is looking for a way to get him exorcised without revealing his predicament to his enemies.

- alternatively, body switched with an actual pit fiend, leaving him in an unfamiliar body, in the middle of a tangle of schemes he has no idea about, and with thousand horrible things ready to happen to him the moment he blows his cover (can he even speak infernal? A wizard might, but no mortal can speak high infernal and pass for a devil - it takes a horribly twisted OCD mind to handle the nuances of grammar) while the party only has a really angry (panicked?) possessed body as a clue to where to find their friend. Let's hope they like crazy rescue missions...

- turned into a low ranked devil on his way to be promoted... if he plays his cards right... for the next 10 thousand years or so. Still, for an evil caster, that would be a way around the whole "go to hell as a petitioner" problem.

Randomguy
2016-07-16, 08:51 PM
What level are the PCs here?

As others mentioned, Wish (http://www.5esrd.com/spellcasting/all-spells/w/wish) can duplicate lower level spells. The best fit in 5th edition is probably polymorph (http://www.5esrd.com/spellcasting/all-spells/p/polymorph), which would be able to turn him into a pit fiend for an entire hour, during which he doesn't have access to any of his fancy magic items, because they meld into his new form. (If he's not level 20 yet you may have to bend the rule about only being able to turn into creatures of less than or equal to your level).

Segev
2016-07-17, 02:21 AM
This is great story fodder. I will point out, however, that he might get what he wants with minimal complications if he simply uses True Polymorph, instead. I recommend looking up that spell. Read it carefully and see if it's what is desired.

As to this question, one cool idea is to see if the plot of the campaign could be the work of a Pot Fiend behind the scenes. If so, transform him into a Pit Fiend for a time, then have him notice himself getting smaller. He shrinks to an Imp before too long. Let him keep his class powers, but lose the ability to cast wish. Let him slowly voluntarily give up class features and spells for more HD and devilish powers. Eventually, have a dramatic event cause him to be seemingly obliterated.

In reality, he was cast centuries or millennia back in time. The real boss of the game is, in fact, his Pit Fiend self. At least part of his motive is completing his own apotheosis.

Gildedragon
2016-07-17, 09:08 AM
But if you want plot... What's the party's average alignment?

Quick and easy idea:
He becomes a pitfiend, ousting someone else in line for the powerup
He is a ruthless fiend and is upsetting the order of the Hells
A lesser demon enlists the party to help set the infernal machinery right

Ninja_Prawn
2016-07-17, 09:16 AM
There's plenty of great information and suggestions here so I doubt you need any more, but you just inspired a scene in my head so I thought I'd throw it out there...

No sooner have the words left your lips, than your awareness is ripped from your body and crammed into another. Your ears ring and your mind spins as a stream of new information pours into it. Yes, you recall dimly, a pit fiend has truesight and telepathy. You stagger backwards as you gain control over your new powers, and your vision resolves enough to make out your new surroundings. You are in some kind of ornate hall, filled with-

"YOU WILL PAY ATTENTION TO ME WHILE I AM BERATING YOU, RAHTAZBIXON!" Thunders an ear-splitting voice that seems to come from all directions at once, quickly followed by a burning slash across your chest.

You scrabble through your new memories for who this voice belongs to, what you did to displease them. It continues... "Your failures have gone on long enough. You have one last chance to save your sorry hide: you will go to Barovia and destroy that fool, Strahd. AND YOU WILL DO IT AS AN ERINYES! BEGONE!"

You feel yourself being teleported... and you are back with your old companions. You feel an odd compulsion to enslave them - and their looks of horror and revulsion aren't helping. And then you realise: you are stark naked, but for a Rope of Entanglement coiled around your body!

Reboot
2016-07-17, 12:29 PM
This is great story fodder. I will point out, however, that he might get what he wants with minimal complications if he simply uses True Polymorph, instead. I recommend looking up that spell. Read it carefully and see if it's what is desired.

True Polymorph is 9th level though. Since Wish can only safely duplicate 8th level and below, you're back in the realm of "GM is expected to twist the wish". (Although there's the interesting point that the really bad prelisted side-effects - including the 1 in 3 chance of permanently losing access to Wish - apparently don't kick in even though you're going past the listed powers. "The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you" doesn't specify 8th or below)

goto124
2016-07-17, 07:30 PM
Guys? OP already stated that the player agreed to becoming an NPC, the GM just wants to create a nice story for the new Pit Fiend.


Yea, I warned him that such a wish would likely result in him becoming an NPC at best, and the player was ok with it. I'm currently planning on giving him one session to play with the results of this wish before I have PLOT happen and he rolls up a new character. I'm doing my research to figure out what kind of thing the PLOT should be, and what this kind of change would do to a person.

There is not need to make becoming a Pit Fiend PC-friendly, it's already covered by "player intends to roll up a new character". We only have to write a cool story before the player leaves the old pit-fiended-PC for good.

Esprit15
2016-07-17, 11:20 PM
Personally, I'm a fan of the "Thankfully, we have protocols for this. You will be demoted to Lemure, and earn your power the proper way" route. Happiest ending, relatively speaking, while still being awful for the person involved.

Rama
2016-07-18, 10:28 AM
So it would be more work, but upon reading the OP and a few of the suggestions, I had a thought.

I do like allowing the wish to go through, but with a delay. So it's an incremental change into a pit fiend.

Here's my monkey's paw catch suggestion: he's not just turning into a pit fiend. He's turning into a specific pit fiend. In other words, the wish has plucked the Pit Fiend Grazhak, servant of Bael (to use a random example) and shoved him into your hapless PC's body. Now the two fight mentally for dominance.

I'd also consider tying the actual transformation to the dominance. IE, the more the fiend takes control, the more he physically transforms. If the PC is completely dominant, he appears virtually human (or his race of choice) with some small Pit Fiend related benefits.

You could either run it as a lycanthropy style infection, where the change happens basically for the rest of the campaign and it's something he has to deal with; or you could set it as a target number that the Fiend will reach eventually, and when he does the PC's soul is consumed. Either way, he'd have to deal with the raging pit fiend in his head, strange otherworldly urges, and potentially even brief times when his body is not under his control and he wakes up in unfamiliar settings with who-knows-what going on around him.

It would take a fair amount of planning setup and does have the risk of putting too much of a spotlight on this player. But I think it could be a lot of fun too.

Yllin
2016-07-18, 11:33 AM
I would like to warn you about OOC ramifications with whole that Demote To Lemure thing. I'm not considering the option the player is just tired of his character, sees no value in it and only wants to get away from it ASAP. But if he actually cares about the character, he is sacrificing something of importance in an interesting way, and probably looking forward to how it resolves. Player's expectations are likely very high, since you already basically told him "yes". Punishing him for the act and diminishing the results would probably lead to frustration.
In other words: it's the last scene for the character as a PC, make it epic. Although that Lemure thing might be epic as well, and definitely amusing.

Segev
2016-07-18, 12:38 PM
True Polymorph is 9th level though. Since Wish can only safely duplicate 8th level and below, you're back in the realm of "GM is expected to twist the wish". (Although there's the interesting point that the really bad prelisted side-effects - including the 1 in 3 chance of permanently losing access to Wish - apparently don't kick in even though you're going past the listed powers. "The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you" doesn't specify 8th or below)

I'm aware. The suggestion was not "make the wish cast true polymorph" so much as it was "suggest to the player that he use a different 9th level spell to achieve his purpose."

Now, if he's not CASTING wish, then that means he probably can't just choose to cast true polymorph instead. But in case it was an option, I wanted to point out the possibility.

Ninja_Prawn
2016-07-18, 12:55 PM
But in case it was an option, I wanted to point out the possibility.

It's not, I'm afraid. The Luck Blade grants 1d4-1 Wishes (three when new), then loses that ability.

It's likely that the PCs are not particularly high levels here as well, which hasn't really been mentioned.

Segev
2016-07-18, 12:58 PM
It's not, I'm afraid. The Luck Blade grants 1d4-1 Wishes (three when new), then loses that ability.

It's likely that the PCs are not particularly high levels here as well, which hasn't really been mentioned.

Ah, I missed that this was from a Luck Blade. My apologies.

viking vince
2016-07-19, 09:48 AM
"Satan'? That's not the name of an archdevil or evil god in any D&D cosmology I'm familiar with.:smallbiggrin:

Write up (for 1e) was in one of the earlier Dragons

Temperjoke
2016-07-19, 04:54 PM
One thing that the OP mentioned is that they are in Barovia, playing Curse of Strahd, so it's not out of the question that he gets twisted into a variant of a pit fiend, maybe weaker than a regular one, due to the influence of the place. Since there isn't a way to escape Barovia unless Strahd is dead, he wouldn't be hauled in for questioning right away. If i recall correctly from what I've seen of CoS

Isn't there a cult of devil worshippers that he could align with and be trapped in Barovia forever as an NPC? Then his status would be one of Strahd's rivals in that domain, prevented from being sent to the Hells by the influence of the Dark Powers who are the powers behind Strahd, but unable to leave after the adventure is over.

ShaneMRoth
2016-07-24, 11:28 PM
The more I think about this concept, the more I like it.

A player is retiring his player character and placing that character into the custody of the GM.

A hero's story arc ends, and a villain's story arc begins.

The DM now has what I reckon to be an interesting BBEG for future adventures. But even if that doesn't turn out to be the case, the entire campaign now has a mythology that is almost certain to feel more authentic to players who participate in it.

That Pit Fiend isn't just some stat block. It's a character who was developed in context of the setting.

I don't see any game balance issues since I don't see a lot of players Wishing to turn their PCs into NPCs.



If this were my campaign, I'd make this Pit Fiend very politically unpopular in Hell. I'd assume that a long line of wretched souls had waited for their chance to advance to the status of Pit Fiend, and then here comes Wishy Wishington cutting to the front of the line.

He'd be working the overnight shift.

He'd be fetching coffee and bagels for 5,000 or 6,000 years.

He'd be the one refilling the Tarrasque's kibble bowl.

His car would have like the worst parking spot... as in there would be, like, an hour commute (even with Teleportation) to the office and people would constantly be putting "I heart paladins" bumper stickers on it.

No corner office for him. He'd just get a supply closet and would have to use the fax machine.

His corporate email would be [email protected]

Stuff like that...

icefractal
2016-07-25, 02:12 AM
Man, does the word "Wish" just bring out an insatiable desire to make the results as unpleasant as possible or something? Because I'm amazed by the amount of responses like "they're a Lemure now", or "they're technically a Pit Fiend, but get stuck on menial duties for 1000 years", or "they just get tortured/destroyed instead".

I mean, the PC is retiring, and the player knows and is ok with that. They basically just used Wish to get a cooler exit scene. There's no balance concern here! It isn't actually a bad thing if a fictional character succeeds at something.


But anyway, some ideas:

* The PC begins to gradually change into a Pit Fiend, over the course of hours/days/weeks, depending what you feel like. As the physical transformation progresses, a mental one accompanies it - the character starts to become more devil-like in their thinking, more evil in their nature. After it progresses a bit, other devils become aware. Some would hate the newcomer, seeing them as cheating their way into power. Others would be impressed by their quick rise, or simply think that a new Pit Fiend without any existing alliances is a useful opportunity. So there'd probably be various recruitment offers to decide between, and some assassinations to fend off. By the end, they've either joined the army of some devil lord, or established their own territory in hell that they can defend against rivals.

* The PC blacks out, feels the sensation of moving a great distance, and then wakes up ... as a Pit Fiend. Specifically, as a Pit Fiend who's standing in front of a devil lord, with a scepter of dread energies pointed at them. But the scepter has already fired. The Pit Fiend whose body they now occupy screwed up big time and faced a severe punishment - complete annihilation of their mind and personality. Which created a nice vacancy for the Wish to insert the PC into. They could either swear allegiance to said devil lord and take up their predecessor's old position, or flee and strike out on their own. Either way, there could be some interesting meetings with people who knew the body's former inhabitant.

* The PC dies, and the soul goes to Hell, where the Wish causes a slightly glitch in the bureaucratic apparatus - their soul is used as the basis for a new Pit Fiend, instead of the one who was supposed to be there (let's call him Bill Zebub). If they can keep up the bluff that they're the real Bill, then they're not only a Pit Fiend but one in a pretty cushy position - command of an infernal legion, a nice fortress overlooking the lake of boiling blood, plenty of imps to kick around, etc. If they can't - then they're on the run from Hell's Auditors, facing annihilation or worse. But Hell is corrupt, of course, so if they can arrange a good enough bribe, or get under the umbrella of someone powerful enough, then it can all be swept under the rug.

Slipperychicken
2016-07-25, 02:51 PM
Man, does the word "Wish" just bring out an insatiable desire to make the results as unpleasant as possible or something? Because I'm amazed by the amount of responses like "they're a Lemure now", or "they're technically a Pit Fiend, but get stuck on menial duties for 1000 years", or "they just get tortured/destroyed instead".

I mean, the PC is retiring, and the player knows and is ok with that. They basically just used Wish to get a cooler exit scene. There's no balance concern here! It isn't actually a bad thing if a fictional character succeeds at something.

Becoming a monster usually doesn't involve a happy ending. Maybe he could wind up like Fafnir, become a great and successful monster, but someday a great hero go to his lair and kills him.

The Glyphstone
2022-05-05, 08:53 PM
Great Modthulhu: Even Wish cannot resurrect a thread this old from the dead.