brawlers spear

[SirKibblesnbits]

so i was looking at the brawlers class specifically at the unarmed strike where it says "A brawler may attack with fists, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a brawler may make unarmed strikes with her hands full." so im assuming that that means that if you had a say a two handed reach weapon equipped you could threaten all squares within a 10ft range with attacks of opportunity because you are threatening the squares at 10ft with the reach weapon and your unarmed strikes with your kicks at 5 feet.
is that the case or am i missing something?

[Necroticplague]

Yep. This trick had existed since 3.5. Even if you don't have access to an unarmed strike, you can perform a similar trick with a reach weapon+armor spikes/guantlets/spiked guantlets.

[grarrrg]

Yep. This trick had existed since 3.5. Even if you don't have access to an unarmed strike, you can perform a similar trick with a reach weapon+armor spikes/guantlets/spiked guantlets.

Reach+Unarmed: Yes.
Reach+Armor Spikes: Probably not (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qw9), unless you are using a 1-handed reach weapon. (and Free Action hand on/off the weapon doesn't work for AoO, because you can only take Free Actions during your turn)

[Teapot Salty]

Reach+Unarmed: Yes.
Reach+Armor Spikes: Probably not (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qw9), unless you are using a 1-handed reach weapon. (and Free Action hand on/off the weapon doesn't work for AoO, because you can only take Free Actions during your turn)

What if my armor spikes are on my feet?

[Anlashok]

Reach+Unarmed: Yes.
Reach+Armor Spikes: Probably not (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qw9), unless you are using a 1-handed reach weapon. (and Free Action hand on/off the weapon doesn't work for AoO, because you can only take Free Actions during your turn)

That FAQ is about two weapon fighting, I don't think it really has any bearing here.

[avr]

That FAQ is about two weapon fighting, I don't think it really has any bearing here.
That FAQ is barring you from using armor spikes in the same round as a two-handed weapon. The Paizo developers have muttered about 'virtual hands' online and disapprove of the combination.

[Elricaltovilla]

That FAQ is barring you from using armor spikes in the same round as a two-handed weapon. The Paizo developers have muttered about 'virtual hands' online and disapprove of the combination.

The paizo devs need to try some HEMA, SCA or Dagorhir (or hockey). Shoulder checking somebody is easy.

[Necroticplague]

Reach+Unarmed: Yes.
Reach+Armor Spikes: Probably not (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qw9), unless you are using a 1-handed reach weapon. (and Free Action hand on/off the weapon doesn't work for AoO, because you can only take Free Actions during your turn)

*scratches head*
I know the paizo FAQ has RAW status, but that's an incredibly confusing ruling. Armor spikes aren't worn/wielded in your hand, so what's in them should be irrelevant. At least it still leaves open Natural Weapons that don't use a hand (like bite attacks).


That FAQ is barring you from using armor spikes in the same round as a two-handed weapon. The Paizo developers have muttered about 'virtual hands' online and disapprove of the combination.
Paizo devs seem to disapprove of any type of emergent gameplay that strays to far from their limited vision, if their nerfs are any indication.

[Fayd]

*scratches head*
I know the paizo FAQ has RAW status, but that's an incredibly confusing ruling. Armor spikes aren't worn/wielded in your hand, so what's in them should be irrelevant. At least it still leaves open Natural Weapons that don't use a hand (like bite attacks).


I think it's more that they can't qualify as off-hand because all "hands" are occupied in the situation for their question. If you wanted to body check your opponent with the armor spikes, I think it would make sense to permit them as possible uses of iterative attacks, but not as "freebies."

[Elricaltovilla]

I think it's more that they can't qualify as off-hand because all "hands" are occupied in the situation for their question. If you wanted to body check your opponent with the armor spikes, I think it would make sense to permit them as possible uses of iterative attacks, but not as "freebies."

Then how does that justify using an unarmed strike Kick as an off-hand attack?

[Anlashok]

That FAQ is barring you from using armor spikes in the same round as a two-handed weapon. The Paizo developers have muttered about 'virtual hands' online and disapprove of the combination.

No, the FAQ is barring you from TWF with a two handed weapon and a non-handed weapon. The FAQ does nothing else. It doesn't even imply it does anything else.

If you are not using two-weapon fighting, the FAQ does not apply in any way, shape or form. Because it's an FAQ about TWF.





Then how does that justify using an unarmed strike Kick as an off-hand attack?

Essentially in Pathfinder 'hands' for the purposes of TWF are not literal hands. They're conceptual.

If you attack with a two handed weapon, both hands are occupied, so you can't use TWF.

If you use two-weapon fighting to gain extra iteratives with armor spikes while using a longsword in one hand, having a dagger in your other hand, wearing a boulder helmet or so on doesn't give you any additional attacks beyond that.


Essentially this rule just means you can't TWF with a two handed weapon or wear four weapons and gain extra attacks with all of them.



But that's all the FAQ does. You can attack with a greatsword and then attack with armor spikes or an unarmed strike as separate iterative attacks, because that's not two weapon fighting. If you have four attacks in your full attack routine you can make attacks with four different weapons, regardless of how many of them are two handed or one handed, because that's not two weapon fighting.

Anyone trying to apply this FAQ to anything other than two weapon fighting is simply wrong.

[Gallowglass]

I feel like I need to build some armor with a lever in it that lets me switch from "two wheel drive" "two weapon fighting" to "all wheel drive" "all weapon fighting." That way i can benefit from strapping boulders to my head.

I don't see any thing in that FAQ that says you can't have a two handed reach weapon that you use from 10' out and armor spikes that you use when people get within your reach. The FAQ seems to be exclusively geared toward someone saying "now that hands are conceptual, I'll two weapon fight with a two handed weapon and armor spikes."

I realize its in fashion to bash paizo devs everytime they release a faq or errata for being fascist powermongers who want to squash all the fun out of the game by trying to fix things when people find a way to break them. squashing "emergent gameplay that strays to far from their limited vision", but I think that this time they probably don't deserve it.

Now that I am imagining edge cases, I want to two weapon fight with a guisarme and an animated shield doing my off-hand shield bashing for me. That seems anime enough.

[Psyren]

Everything Anlashok said. That FAQ only applies to Two-Weapon Fighting, which is a specific rules element that gives you bonus attacks if you're wielding a main hand and off-hand weapon during a full-attack. It does not apply to simply wielding a 2H weapon and armor spikes while attacking normally (even if you alternate between them), and furthermore the FAQ linked above says nothing about a character's reach or threatened areas either.

The end result is that the general rules stand, and you can thus threaten non-adjacent enemies with your reach weapon while also threatening adjacent ones with your armor spikes or unarmed strike, because that is what the general rules for both of those weapons let you do. But if you full-attack during your turn, having both weapons will not give you any additional attacks because neither of them can be considered your "offhand" - that is what the FAQ is clarifying, and that is all it's clarifying.


TL;DR: You get no additional attacks, but threaten both reach and adjacent with AoOs.



I realize its in fashion to bash paizo devs everytime they release a faq or errata for being fascist powermongers who want to squash all the fun out of the game by trying to fix things when people find a way to break them. squashing "emergent gameplay that strays to far from their limited vision", but I think that this time they probably don't deserve it.

I don't think it was ever *not* in fashion.