Best way to play a swashbuckler spellsword character in gestalt?

[Da Beast]

I'm planning to play a sylph spellsword for a skulls and shackles games starting next week and I'm wondering what's the best way to do that. A magus seems like the easiest way to go, possibly gestalted with Slayer for extra oomph in melee, but I'm wondering if there's a way I can play essentially the same thing but with full wizard or sorcerer casting. Is there a way to do anything like this and if not how will Magus stack up compared to a full caster gestalt? The rest of the party is looking like a druid/stalker, a possible dmpc witch/alchemist focused on healing, and another player who said he wants to use a canon but hasn't chosen classes to play yet.

[avr]

Kensai Magus | Blade Adept Arcanist seems like it'd work just fine; lots of magus arcana and two separate point pools to use them with. Maybe get a level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler on the magus side for the parry. Full BAB would be nice but is not essential when you can throw the arcane accuracy magus arcana out whenever you like.

[Kurald Galain]

Depends on what level you're playing at. Since Magus got melee covered, you can easily gestalt it with wizard to get full casting (make that void school specialist to improve your saving throws, if you want).

Also, here's a Magus guide for you. (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus)

[Da Beast]

Depends on what level you're playing at. Since Magus got melee covered, you can easily gestalt it with wizard to get full casting (make that void school specialist to improve your saving throws, if you want).

Also, here's a Magus guide for you. (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus)

I'm mostly concerned with balancing to the level of the druid/stalker which could easily become very strong. The player is new to the game but has a knack for optimizing and hasn't really learned any restraint yet so he can end up game breaking by accident. My DM is open to plenty of house so long as I keep things balanced so most any combination of abilities that let me spell and sword people at the same time is on the table.

[Sayt]

It's not The Most Powerful, but I'd go inspired blade swashbuckler//Kenai Magus.

Magus doesn't have the raw spellcasting might of a wizard, but it's an excellent fusion of steel and spell, in that it let's you cast and fight concurrently.

Inspired blade gives you int to hit at 11 for 1 point of panache per attack, and let's you automatically threaten a critical if you hit with that attack for a further panache. While the swashbuckler is notoriously congested in its action economy, the inspired strike deed had no action cost beyond the attack, which can be any attack you make.

Also, I highly recommend Dreams carted Press' Deadly Agility from Path of War, for no-strings dexterity to damage.

[Secret Wizard]

Personally, I'd consider Blade Adept Arcanist (Spellstrike, full casting) + Brawler.

[Da Beast]

I've seen swashbuckler consistently ranked as one of the weakest classes in the game but I've never played with one at my table. Can anyone give me a brief rundown of the classes strengths and weaknesses and how it might work in my build?

Edit: the inspired blade auto critical thing is obviously pretty awesome with an intensified shocking grasp attached to your sword, I'm just wondering if it's worth 11 levels in an otherwise weak class.

[Kurald Galain]

I've seen swashbuckler consistently ranked as one of the weakest classes in the game but I've never played with one at my table. Can anyone give me a brief rundown of the classes strengths and weaknesses and how it might work in my build?

Strength: it deals damage in combat.
Weakness: it doesn't do anything else.

[Sayt]

Swashbuckler... isn't great on it's own, in all honesty.

But adding it to Magus gives you all good saves, full bab, d10 HD, opportune parry and riposte, flat damage, AC bumps, more bonus feats and an emphasis on a combat style you're pushed into by magus anyway.

Edit: It also gives the five main social skills as class skills, and two more ranks per level.

[Da Beast]

How good is Magus without an archetype? Spell recall sounds too fun at later levels to pass up but a lot of the good archetypes do exactly that.

[Kurald Galain]

How good is Magus without an archetype?

Solid.

But note that you can replace spell recall by buying a bunch of Pearls of Power.

[Da Beast]

Solid.

But note that you can replace spell recall by buying a bunch of Pearls of Power.

It's more the any spell from your book version that I'm excited for and that can't be replicated by pearls of power.

Looking at the swashbuckler it looks like precise strike lets you add your level to damage for free and with no activation requirements so long as you have panache and only actually costs anything if you use a swift action to double the bonus. Is this right? If so that's kind of crazy to just have all the time.

[Sayt]

It's more the any spell from your book version that I'm excited for and that can't be replicated by pearls of power.

Looking at the swashbuckler it looks like precise strike lets you add your level to damage for free and with no activation requirements so long as you have panache and only actually costs anything if you use a swift action to double the bonus. Is this right? If so that's kind of crazy to just have all the time.
It's precision damage, so it doesn't affect everything, and it isn't doubled on critical, but it's pretty good.

It also perhaps means you can dedicate a bit more of your spell allocation to utility, as you have some consistent, flat damage.

[Elricaltovilla]

I'm mostly concerned with balancing to the level of the druid/stalker which could easily become very strong. The player is new to the game but has a knack for optimizing and hasn't really learned any restraint yet so he can end up game breaking by accident. My DM is open to plenty of house so long as I keep things balanced so most any combination of abilities that let me spell and sword people at the same time is on the table.

If Path of War (I assume because you say Stalker) is on the table, have you considered using that yourself? Something like Magus 2/Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder) 4/ Mage Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/mage-hunter) 10/ Warder 4 gestalted with Wizard 20 would go a long way to getting you what you want.

The trick is that Mage Hunter's spells are Magus Spells, so they can be used with Spell Strike and Mage Hunter itself is a pretty good PrC. You'll have maneuvers, spells, solid BAB and HD and saves all around. You can tweak the build a little bit here and there to get exactly what you want, but if PoW:E is also at your table make sure to pick up the trait Practiced Initiator to shore up your missing Initiator Level and keep your maneuvers on pace with your spells.

[dude123nice]

If Path of War (I assume because you say Stalker) is on the table, have you considered using that yourself? Something like Magus 2/Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder) 4/ Mage Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/mage-hunter) 10/ Warder 4 gestalted with Wizard 20 would go a long way to getting you what you want.

The trick is that Mage Hunter's spells are Magus Spells, so they can be used with Spell Strike and Mage Hunter itself is a pretty good PrC. You'll have maneuvers, spells, solid BAB and HD and saves all around. You can tweak the build a little bit here and there to get exactly what you want, but if PoW:E is also at your table make sure to pick up the trait Practiced Initiator to shore up your missing Initiator Level and keep your maneuvers on pace with your spells.

Why not Magus 4 or 5 then Warder 1 and then Blade Caster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/bladecaster) ?

[Kurald Galain]

It's more the any spell from your book version that I'm excited for and that can't be replicated by pearls of power.

Sure, but that only comes up at pretty high level. At any rate, there are some good archetypes that don't lose spell recall, such as Bladebound and Staff Magus.

[Elricaltovilla]

Why not Magus 4 or 5 then Warder 1 and then Blade Caster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/bladecaster) ?

I don't play gestalt much, so I could be wrong, but my understanding was that "Theurge" or dual advancement PrCs were banned. Mage Hunter isn't a theurge PrC.

[Da Beast]

If Path of War (I assume because you say Stalker) is on the table, have you considered using that yourself? Something like Magus 2/Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder) 4/ Mage Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/mage-hunter) 10/ Warder 4 gestalted with Wizard 20 would go a long way to getting you what you want.

The trick is that Mage Hunter's spells are Magus Spells, so they can be used with Spell Strike and Mage Hunter itself is a pretty good PrC. You'll have maneuvers, spells, solid BAB and HD and saves all around. You can tweak the build a little bit here and there to get exactly what you want, but if PoW:E is also at your table make sure to pick up the trait Practiced Initiator to shore up your missing Initiator Level and keep your maneuvers on pace with your spells.

Warder just doesn't fit what I want my character to be very well. I've considered warlord with eldritch scion magus but I kind of want to be intelligence focused. I'm not opposed to Path of War on this character, I just wanted to focus more on spells and steel than outright martial ability. If I can find a way to make a swahbuckler type that doesn't take too much away from the spell casting I'll consider it.

Edit: as for duel progression PrCs in gestalt, my group tends to allow them so long as one of the two classes is taken as the other side of the gestalt and things don't stack faster than a single class progresses them. If you're playing a rogue//wizard and want arcane trickster abilities instead of the wizard bonus feats and familiar advancement you can do that but sneak attack won't go up faster than normal rogue allows it to. You can't go rogue//wizard into arcane trickster//fighter or something like that.

[Elricaltovilla]

Warder just doesn't fit what I want my character to be very well. I've considered warlord with eldritch scion magus but I kind of want to be intelligence focused. I'm not opposed to Path of War on this character, I just wanted to focus more on spells and steel than outright martial ability. If I can find a way to make a swahbuckler type that doesn't take too much away from the spell casting I'll consider it.

Edit: as for duel progression PrCs in gestalt, my group tends to allow them so long as one of the two classes is taken as the other side of the gestalt and things don't stack faster than a single class progresses them. If you're playing a rogue//wizard and want arcane trickster abilities instead of the wizard bonus feats and familiar advancement you can do that but sneak attack won't go up faster than normal rogue allows it to. You can't go rogue//wizard into arcane trickster//fighter or something like that.

If PoW:E, harbinger is also INT based, but warders can play the duelist game fine, you don't have to be married to s&b and plate mail. That's the nice thing about being a class with a high optimization floor.

[Da Beast]

If PoW:E, harbinger is also INT based, but warders can play the duelist game fine, you don't have to be married to s&b and plate mail. That's the nice thing about being a class with a high optimization floor.

How would you go about building a swashbuckler warder? All I can think to do is get scarlet throne on the character and take most all of my maneuvers from it but I'm not super familiar with Path of War yet and out of the three classes in the base book Warder is the one I've looked at the least.

[Elricaltovilla]

How would you go about building a swashbuckler warder? All I can think to do is get scarlet throne on the character and take most all of my maneuvers from it but I'm not super familiar with Path of War yet and out of the three classes in the base book Warder is the one I've looked at the least.

Yeah, that's about how it'd go. Probably use a Zweihander Sentinel Warder with the Scarlet Throne Style feats (from PoW:E) with Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility. It's a pretty nice AoO setup, especially with the full Scarlet Throne Style line of feats. You can also swap out a discipline for Mithral Current (Or use the Bushi Class Template from PoW:E to get it for free) for some more movement and counter attack maneuvers.