point buy class building ... wip

[tsj]

This idea is an attempt at combining the best from point buy and class based systems


While limiting source material to the SRD

Psionics, arcane and divine powers are bought using points
Each level is worth x points

Each spell and Psionics power is set to same value as a feat
Better versions of spells/powers requires that you have the inferior version (s) also (just like feats)

Each class feature is set to be equal to a feat

Spell progression is severe slowed and limited

Buying a new spell also grants the spell level and one usage per day of a spell of that level (spell slot)

Buying spells are restricted by your current level and by how many spells you already have of various levels

Ie. To buy a level 2 spell you need to already have 2 level 1 spells and 3 level 0 spells (pyramid koncept)

Each level you get Y points, enough for Q "feats"
(Rises exponentially with class level like xp? Or not?)

1 point equals Z xp?

Each time you gain Z xp you gain 1 (build) point?

Your level can be calculated by how many points you have?

All spell casting is spontaneous

You build your own spell list

Arcane, divine and Psionics are tracked separately

You can buy any spell from any spell list or source (normally you buy a spell at its lowest possible level)

Maybe the spells from classes with few spell levels needs an adjustment here

Here is an attempt at listing the level based restrictions on spells... this is just a suggestion at this time. ..

It reads like this...
Minimum Charecter level req: Spell level

1:0
2:1
3:2
4:3
8:4
16:5
18:6
19:7
20:8
20:9

Domains... to do

Psionics. .. to do

Possible upgrade could be to value each "feat" (class feature, spell, feat etc) independently

What do you guy's think. .. will it work?

Am I missing something / anything?

[RATHSQUATCH]

If you've not done so yet, check out Big Eyes Small Mouth D20 (BESM D20). They use a similar system to what you're describing and could give some inspiration on how to adapt that to 5E. I started working on this myself, but the problem is the Munchkining, Power Gaming, and System Breaking combinations can get out of hand.

[tsj]

If you've not done so yet, check out Big Eyes Small Mouth D20 (BESM D20). They use a similar system to what you're describing and could give some inspiration on how to adapt that to 5E. I started working on this myself, but the problem is the Munchkining, Power Gaming, and System Breaking combinations can get out of hand.

BESM D20 comes close to what I want...

Maybe I could create something based of BESM d20


...



First addition :

Appearance (app) = ( str + dex + cha ) / 3

Luck (luck) = 1d20

[tsj]

Hmm I could couple BESM d20 with some other stuff and get something really cool :-)

[RATHSQUATCH]

Hmm I could couple BESM d20 with some other stuff and get something really cool :-)

Just keep in mind that the game in no way, shape, or form will be balanced since BESM is beyond high fantasy and into Anime style games. Also, magic setup in that game can be complicated, but if you shoot me your e-mail, I can send a long a draft of some stuff I've been working on for a "Classless" system. We might even be able to brainstorm it together in this thread.

[tsj]

Just keep in mind that the game in no way, shape, or form will be balanced since BESM is beyond high fantasy and into Anime style games. Also, magic setup in that game can be complicated, but if you shoot me your e-mail, I can send a long a draft of some stuff I've been working on for a "Classless" system. We might even be able to brainstorm it together in this thread.

Sounds interesting.

But does that mean that the classes from this will be weaker or better than 3.5 classes ?

And will the classes made with besm d20 be balanced with each other?
Inter class balance is my main motivation

Just to clarify I am not interested in 4e or 5e material though since I am strictly keeping myself to the d20 system.

I think the BEST d20 system is very nice but could use a few changes... some of the changes I was thinking about are these. ..

A class seems to be made up of 200 pts that means avg cost of a level is 10 pts

Avg cost of a race is 6 pts... I want to change the avg cost of a race to 10 pts such that a race and a class level has the same value


When creating a charecter you select a race and a class
If using more than 10 pts on a race (we should have races at 10, 20, 30 ... pts etc) then the race should be divided into a base race and racial levels


Each class seems to be divided in to a base cost and an avg level cost

I want to distribute the base cost along all 20 levels...
For example. .. if pure bab cost X points then each level in that class pays X/10 points for have full bab for that level

All features of all classes should be distributed evenly among its 20 levels




I am aiming for a liniar power progression

I am unsure how it would effect a party's chances of defeating CL equivalent encounters

But it would eliminate power loss when multiclassing

[tsj]

Another addition :

Alternative spell progression

A spell caster level can be bought as a "feat"
When selecting this you select what
spellcasting level you want

Of course you still need to follow the progression... Ie. . You must take wizard caster level 1 before you can take wizard caster level 2 and so on

For each known spell you want to have you must
Spend a feat and you need to have at least one more
Total number of spells at a certain level before
You can have a new known spell of a certain level

Ie. You have 5 level 0 spells, 4 level 1 spells,
3 level 2 spells, 2 level 3 spells and 1 level 4 spell

To gain another level four spell you would first have to spend feats to gain a level 0, 1, 2 & 3 level known spell

This would require the amount of feats per level to increase dramatically though


An alternative could be that you must have minimum the same amount of known spells for previous spell levels such as...

Ie. You have 1 level 0 spell, 1 level 1 spell, 1 level 2 spell
To get another level 2 spell you need to first get a new level 0 and 1 spell

Another option for level 0 spells ... (combined with some of the above options) is to allow all casters access to all their level 0 spells upon gaining their first caster level of a particular type

Ie. You spend a feat to gain wizard caster level 1 and gain a cess to all level 0 wizard spells.

The goal is to take away a fair amount of the casters powers and
Thereby equalizing mundanes and casters


-----

All srd feats should (by using online guides) be divided into groups... ie. Weak, avg and strong... these should have the following costs... x/2, x, x*1.5

All srd spells should be divided in to avg, strong and overpowering (by using online guides and common sense)

avg spells should require one feat (avg feat, cost x) and strong should require the equivalent of 2 feats (cost x*2) to learn

overpowering spells should not be available for the players

[nonsi]

.
In my experience, point-buy class building doesn't work well, because a class is more than the sum of its parts.

I've searched for a long time for a point-buy class building rules and never found one that I liked.
The closest I've ever seen to come anywhere near reasonable and that actually worked was one published on gleemax (by Szatany, IIRC), but:
1. I can't seem to find it, now that the old gleemax boards are gone.
2. It was tailor-made only for the core PHB classes and completely disregarded things like psionics, invoking, meldshaping, binding, shadowcasting, trunaming, maneuvers etc.

[tsj]

.
In my experience, point-buy class building doesn't work well, because a class is more than the sum of its parts.

I've searched for a long time for a point-buy class building rules and never found one that I liked.
The closest I've ever seen to come anywhere near reasonable and that actually worked was one published on gleemax (by Szatany, IIRC), but:
1. I can't seem to find it, now that the old gleemax boards are gone.
2. It was tailor-made only for the core PHB classes and completely disregarded things like psionics, invoking, meldshaping, binding, shadowcasting, trunaming, maneuvers etc.

If you ever find it (Google cache or way back machine maybe)
then please let me know. It sounds interesting.

It could still work for PC classes ... psionics could be limited to what can get from feats/races

Other classes could still be used by npcs

[inuyasha]

.
In my experience, point-buy class building doesn't work well, because a class is more than the sum of its parts.

I've searched for a long time for a point-buy class building rules and never found one that I liked.
The closest I've ever seen to come anywhere near reasonable and that actually worked was one published on gleemax (by Szatany, IIRC), but:
1. I can't seem to find it, now that the old gleemax boards are gone.
2. It was tailor-made only for the core PHB classes and completely disregarded things like psionics, invoking, meldshaping, binding, shadowcasting, trunaming, maneuvers etc.

You're not talking about his Ultimate Classes are you? Because a simple google search found those for me.

Also, as for this topic, have you considered a book called Codex Persona? It's a free, totally legal shareware book, designed to be published for free on the internet, and it allows for complete freedom in designing every aspect of your character via a point buy system, I discovered it recently and found it to be pretty interesting.

[nonsi]

Other classes could still be used by npcs


... or you could use them under the assumption that you'll figure out their formula sometime in the future (w/ "sometime" meaning "until further notice" :smallbiggrin:)

[nonsi]

You're not talking about his Ultimate Classes are you? Because a simple google search found those for me.


I know that the Ultimate Classes project is Szatany's. I'm not sure about the point-buy system, that's why I said IIRC. I do remember encountering both projects within but a few days, so maybe my memory fails me.




Also, as for this topic, have you considered a book called Codex Persona? It's a free, totally legal shareware book, designed to be published for free on the internet, and it allows for complete freedom in designing every aspect of your character via a point buy system, I discovered it recently and found it to be pretty interesting.


Do you happen to know how it is possible to download Codex Persona w/o registering?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Luck (luck) = 1d20

There is something strangely poetic yet pretty ironic about rolling a die for your luck score.

[tsj]

@inuyasha: I remember reading codex persona at one point.. maybe I should look at it again if I can find it.
Like nonsi I am also interested in a download link for codex persona.

@lvl 2 expert: hehe yes... I mostly intend to use luck as per the Fighting fantasy d20 luck rules though. So I might have to consider ensuring some kind of minimum score (each time you use your luck the score decrease by 1.. kind of a luck drain)

@nonsi: that is certainly also an option :-)

---

Found the codex on scribd. ..
It seems odd that the sorcerer costs 507 cp while the wizard costs 504 cp
Unless the sorcerer is more versatile in eclipse then something is wrong
with the point costs.

Normally the sorcerer is tier 2 while the wizard is tier 1 since the wizard is more versatile than the sorcerer.

But some kind of combo between eclipse and besm d20 might be interesting

[inuyasha]

The only "good" links I can find for Codex Persona are RPGNow and DriveThruRPG (here (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/51255/Eclipse-The-Codex-Persona-Shareware) and here (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51254/Eclipse-The-Codex-Persona) respectively)

[tsj]

I am becoming more and more impressed with codex persona, the more I read it.

Perhaps I could just make a set of races and classes created with the codex persona.

This is the link to the authors blog.... it contains a lot of sample builds that helps to learn the point buy system used in codex persona...
https://ruscumag.wordpress.com/

I might be posting some classes and races made with codex persona once I become more familiar with it