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Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 06:14 PM
I am working on building a campaign that uses these two books, (no other base classes except the NPC classes). I am also restricting feats to these two books + PHB (+ a few AE feats- Sturdy replaces Toughness, for example).

What what would be some of the effects of this?

I imagine that alot of traditional magic items would be unavailable, due to adept being the only spellcasting class, and with a much more restricted list.

I haven't actually acquired above books yet, but how available are healing abilities? Is healing reduced enough to justify using the Reserve variant?

How suited are the manuevers and stances to a ranged-weapon fighter? I am using a near-future baseline, so modern guns and body armor would be available, but I am hoping that ToB stuff would make more traditional weapons viable against warriors and experts with automatic weapons.

Needless to say, this game will have a very anime feel.

MeklorIlavator
2007-07-02, 06:20 PM
Well, your right about items. All items should basically be impossible to get. I can't really speak to much on incarnum, but for ToB, only the crusader can heal, but if he's build to do it he can get moderate healing in due to several strikes and a stance that offers it.

On ranged maneuvers, I would seriously consider using some of the excellent homebrewed variants on this board, as the ToB ignores ranged combat completely. I believe Fax Celestis worked on a very good one, and I know their is one on the wizard boards as well(the name for both of them is the Falling Star).

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 06:56 PM
the ToB ignores ranged combat completely.

Actually, I was hoping that would be the case, as I didn't want PCs to be using ToB stuff with automatic rifles and what-not. I was hoping for ToB with melee weapons to be better than warrior/expert (maybe fighter) with modern guns.

[EDIT]I would still appreciate links of couse.

MeklorIlavator
2007-07-02, 07:18 PM
[EDIT]I would still appreciate links of couse.

Ask, and you shall receive: Fax's Falling Star, andCrystall_Myr's Falling star

Flawless
2007-07-02, 07:35 PM
You should consider getting the pdf for cards with all the maneuvers on the wizards homepage which can come pretty handy if your non-casters are going to ToB builds. Especially with crusaders book-keeping can get quite troublesome.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 07:39 PM
What would be the ramifications of making all the manuevers/stances supernatural abilities?

Flawless
2007-07-02, 07:44 PM
What would be the ramifications of making all the manuevers/stances supernatural abilities?

They wouldn't work in an AMF.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 07:49 PM
So, since there isn't any way to make an AMF, its purely flavor, w/o ramifications? Can you dispel magic supernatural abilities (I think adepts get that). Are there any MoI abilities that give you AMF?

Flawless
2007-07-02, 07:55 PM
Well, there could be zones of dead magic that work like AMFs in your campaign world. Nothing in the description of dispel magic indicates that you dispel SAs. So I don't think this is going to be a problem.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 08:08 PM
Has anyone tried using SpellPoints for ToB?

Draz74
2007-07-02, 08:18 PM
Warlocks have abilities -- "Deceive Item" and "Imbue Item" that allow them to make any PHB magic item without being spellcasters. If you WANT variety of magic equipment, it's pretty easy to homebrew these two abilities onto another class. (Or allow Warlocks -- they won't unbalance the game, and they may compensate for a lack of archer-type classes.)

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 08:23 PM
I'm pretty cool with a low-magic game, in terms of loot. The PCs will mostly be dealing with NPCs, as opposed to MM stuff, so the lack of magic items is not as significant. It also means the PCs won't necessarily loot everything.

Douglas
2007-07-02, 08:25 PM
Has anyone tried using SpellPoints for ToB?
Before you try converting ToB to spell points, you need to know that the maneuver system is in no way analogous to spell slots. A ToB character has a certain number of maneuvers known. At any given time, he can have a certain (smaller) number of them readied, once each. The number readied is a total, not divided out by maneuver level, and the entire set is usable once per encounter and can be changed completely in 5 minutes. In addition, each class has some method of regaining access to expended maneuvers in the same encounter. Trying to convert all of that to something like spell points just doesn't make sense to me.

Flawless
2007-07-02, 08:26 PM
Has anyone tried using SpellPoints for ToB?

I don't think it'd work. The thing about maneuvers is that you can't "prepare" one more than once but recover all of them quite easily but still in a restricted manner. Essentially you can't use any one repeatedly but you don't run out of maneuvers either. Giving ToB classes that much flexibility would break it, imho.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 08:33 PM
What I'm wanting to do is to have ToB stuff usable normally most of the time, but have certain areas/times of day or year when it is harder to do, and thus cost SP to use, in addition to the normal routine.

Merlin the Tuna
2007-07-02, 08:41 PM
Ask, and you shall receive: Fax's Falling Star, andCrystall_Myr's Falling starGreat googily moogily, the sky must be falling, because there's no end to these things. My preferred Falling Star discipline is from the WotC forums, here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=771597). Apparently it's in the process of being PDF'ed.

Flawless
2007-07-02, 08:42 PM
What I'm wanting to do is to have ToB stuff usable normally most of the time, but have certain areas/times of day or year when it is harder to do, and thus cost SP to use, in addition to the normal routine.

For those instances you can assign everyone a maneuver point pool depending on class level and either wisdom (for crusaders and swordsages) or int (warblades). Initializing a maneuver then costs (maneuver level*2) -1 maneuver points. You could use the psychic warrior's power point pool from the XPH to determine the amount of maneuver points based on class level. Or whatever you think would work.

ImperiousLeader
2007-07-02, 09:36 PM
I am working on building a campaign that uses these two books, (no other base classes except the NPC classes). I am also restricting feats to these two books + PHB (+ a few AE feats- Sturdy replaces Toughness, for example).

Well, the main problem is that if you use any magical traps, you won't have a single class that can find them before level 4, when an Incarnate can gain trapfinding via the Theft Gloves soulmeld.


I imagine that alot of traditional magic items would be unavailable, due to adept being the only spellcasting class, and with a much more restricted list.

No mental stat boosting equipment for one thing. Any magic item that requires a spell not on this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/adept.htm) list cannot be created.


I haven't actually acquired above books yet, but how available are healing abilities? Is healing reduced enough to justify using the Reserve variant?

Crusaders and Incarnates are both secondary healers, healing will be very difficult. Incarnates heal by taking 1/2 the damage they heal on themselves, and have only a limited self-heal capability. I'm not sure what the Reserve variant is.


How suited are the manuevers and stances to a ranged-weapon fighter? I am using a near-future baseline, so modern guns and body armor would be available, but I am hoping that ToB stuff would make more traditional weapons viable against warriors and experts with automatic weapons.

A few Shadow Hand maneuvers could benefit a gunfighter. I'm actually intrigued by the concept, using stances to grant concealment, boosts for invisibility, you could make a fair replica of the Shadow, minus the telepathy/telekinesis.

Draz74
2007-07-02, 09:36 PM
EDIT: Dumb idea, never mind.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 09:47 PM
I'm not sure what the Reserve variant is.

Reserve is from Unearthed Arcana:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/reservePoints.htm

TheLogman
2007-07-02, 10:42 PM
If you have Tome of Magic, I suggest you use it as well. Binder is basically your all purpose man, he can be almost any class, but he decides at the beginning of the day. Shadowcaster I believe is regarded as Warlock that is slightly better, and the Truenamer is way way weak, but some NPC's could be one. Also, at least two of the Vestiges that the Binder has access to are of the Healing type.
I know that one of the Prestige Classes in the Tome of Magic has access to some anti-supernatural stuff, cause he hunts people that use it.

If Tome of Magic is out, I doubt that Reserve points would be enough to replace magical healing, it seems like they are perfect for out of battle healing, but only for about half the day, and they are never suited for in-battle healing, which is gonna be a major problem, especially since you are using ranged firearms, allowing combat to be stretched over a great distance.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-02, 10:50 PM
I will look at binder, however-

Adept is a class that exists in the setting, and I believe Adepts get cure light wounds- so wands and potions of such would be available. Which helps, and I've been looking at a friend's books, which has some healing via crusader, and some healing via incarnum stuff as well. Binder looks good so far (in terms of flavor, haven't gotten to class features yet).