Could A First-Level Party Handle an Allip?

[Palanan]

I'm about to start an introductory campaign with a party at first level, and I'd love to throw an allip at them, since it fits perfectly with the overall theme.

But the party is heavily oriented towards nonmagical melee, with a fighter, an inquisitor, a swordsman (class undecided) and either a rogue or a paladin. Is an allip simply too much for a martial first-level party?

[LTwerewolf]

They are immune to nonmagical attacks in all forms, so no.

[Gildedragon]

... Depends
They would need access to the spell magic weapon, or (lots) of holy water... Maybe some beneficial terrain
But even then it'd be tough. I would expect the Inquisitor to start off Magic Weaponing one of their comarades and spend the rest of the fight using cantrips against it

[Gallowglass]

It could work as a boss encounter IF you plant reasonable clues as to what it is and can do before they encounter it and give them access to what they need to make a go of it. I.e. holy water, magic weapon spell and something to let them mitigate the wis dmg. They don't have spells at their level to do so. Also you will have to rule that they can block or get a bonus against the babble with wax in the ears or similar low level strategies as they likely have a less than 50/50 chance at making that save.

[LTwerewolf]

I'm not sure how much money people expect a 1st level party to have, but dumping 25 per shot isn't really that doable, especially since in order to use it on an incorporeal creature you have to be adjacent to them. Each try is only 2d4 damage. Let's assume that best case scenario every single holy water does maximum. That's 4 vials of the stuff in order to kill an average hp allip. If we take average damage (5) it takes 6. Unlucky could take more. At best that's dropping 100 gold at first level after buying things like weapons (which I assume people will want) and armor (which I assume most of them will want) doesn't exactly leave them with much left over. This is all assuming the allip simply stands there and lets them do it.

Now the part about them actually using the vials on the thing. Your fighter's wisdom score is probably +1 at best. This means he has to roll a 14 or better to save against the allip's , giving them a 65% chance of failing their saves. Approaching the thing give the fighter a 65% chance of doing nothing. Each time the thing attacks the fighter, they have a 65% chance of losing 2.5 average wisdom and giving the allip 5 temporary hit points. For those keeping track, every hit the allip succeeds with (where the wisdom damage happens), requires another average damage of holy water. It's also hitting touch ac, which at level 1 unless people are rocking very high dex scores, is likely to be right around 10, giving the allip's +4 a very good chance of hitting.

Since it's unlikely they're going to be able to afford all the holy water required, you either need to give them all the holy water they could ever need (which they still don't have a great chance at success even if this is the case), or you're expecting them to die. If you give them all the holy water they could need, it messes with low level wealth.

The allip was not a very well thought-out monster for the challenge rating. It's a tpk at the appropriate levels, and at higher levels it has too few hp to make it anything but a joke.

[Eldariel]

Even if they have plenty of Holy Water and Oil of Magic Weapon or whatever, we're talking an incorporeal creature that gains temporary HP every time it hits a PC, has a decent number of HP, decent AC, hits their Will-save (all those characters have ****ty Will-saves, liable to only get worse as they slowly go insane), is immune to most of their attacks. Even if they get magic weapons/holy water there's still the 50% miss chance to deal with and incorporeals can attack from inside walls (Cover even against readied actions, though at the cost of giving itself total concealment). If they got a Ghost Touch weapon, I'd give them a fighting chance but anything short of that...

[Gildedragon]

If you want to use the allip you gotta treat it less like a combat and more like a puzzle encounter.
Give them the means to establish a ward to keep themselves safe (check the 3.5 rules for incantations)
If they are clever they might be able to flip the ward inside out to trap the allip inside.

[Crake]

I think if you give them some kind of reasonable means to kill the thing, perhaps a scroll or two of cure critical wounds, dealing 4d8+7 damage can be a pretty big tide turner. Throw in some holy water, and maybe a wand of magic missiles, and the party should do alright I think. The main problem with allips is they require a decent set of maigc, and your party doesn't have that at all. Also, if you have a lead up to the allip, consider letting them levelup once or twice before fighting it.

[Psyren]

This is a tough fight for them without help. Only the Inquisitor has the necessary tool (Magic Weapon) at this level, and even then he may not know it or have a leftover slot to cast it by the time they reach the Allip.

This encounter starts at APL +2 (Hard - decent chance of a TPK) and may even get higher (Epic) if the Allip has favorable conditions, like surprise.

[Palanan]

Okay, I appreciate the feedback from everyone. It's looking like this is way too much to hit the party with at first level, especially since they'll be far out in the wilderness, and without a cleric to mitigate the wisdom penalties.

So, the allip will have to wait. My players will thank you all. :smalltongue:

[Wonton]

If you want to use the allip you gotta treat it less like a combat and more like a puzzle encounter.
Give them the means to establish a ward to keep themselves safe (check the 3.5 rules for incantations)
If they are clever they might be able to flip the ward inside out to trap the allip inside.

I like this idea. Like in Witcher 3. Let them learn of the monster, learn of its weakness, and specifically set a trap, with defenses ready.