View Full Version : Comics Genural Marvel NOW ramblings.
BiblioRook
2016-07-14, 03:40 AM
For better or for worst (more one then the other these days) I was pretty big into Marvel and it's hard to break away from that clean, also as much as it's in my nature to be curious it's hard not to keep tabs on what's going on every now and again as well as find the urge to talk about what was found. That being said I got a hold of the Marvel NOW preview books and had a bit of a chuckle and a groan over what was in store... honestly most of these really don't deserve their own thread but I still feel like pointing them out to see what people think. Maybe some of these will be really good, more likely most of them will probably be kinda bad, who knows really.
That being said, going more just in order of the book. To be clear I'm not covering all of the previews, just the ones that stuck out to me. Feel feel to add commentary on any of the rest if you like however.
Champions (http://www.criticalblast.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_image_full_node/public/field/image/Champions_1_Cover.jpg?itok=XM-LmD5u)
I already mentioned this one elsewhere but I mention it less because of the comic itself but more as an example of something Marvel seems to be trying to do right now. For all Marvel's attempts to wipe out the X-Men for petty film-rights reasons it seems at least partially to be dawning on them that people actually like the X-men characters. Rather then taking that and stopping the whole madness of it all instead they are starting to pick and chose certain X-men and sticking on other non-X-Men teams.
That all aside, the comic itself is just another teen superhero team-up thing. Well, like I mentioned before, aside from Cho. I know his whole thing way back when was that he was this child genius, but he's kind of grown up now. Isn't he a bit old to be on a 'teenaged' superhero team?
U.S.Avengers (http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/imglib/270/0/1/usavengers-cover-70162.jpg)
I wish I was able to find a bigger picture of the cover, but this will work. So my first reaction was that the guy in the middle was Dr. Doom (more on him later), but no it's just De Costa (aka: Sunspot). Honestly this would have went under my radar if it wasn't for Squirrel Girl front and center. Regardless how people may love her or hate her, I'm unapologetically of the former and due to that I tend to take a vested interest when she gets involved in something because what I hear the writers are about as split on her as the fans are... All that being said dispute the weirdly patriotic name this is clearly not much more then a continuation of the New Avengers... but with Squirrel Girl as the only returning member? Weird in itself (Man, I hated the New Avengers as it is). Never mind the fact that the team seems to be full of members I wouldn't really Squirrel Girl working really in sync with, I mean this is the girl who defeated Galactus single-handedly with the power of friendship, definitely not the shoot-first ask-questions-later kind of person. Also isn't De Costa Brazilian?
Great Lakes Avengers (http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Great-Lakes-Avengers-Allred-Variant.jpg)
Talking about Squirrel Girl... I actually honestly forget all about these guys. So they are coming back? Okay for them I guess. Moving on.
Infamous Iron Man (http://www.dageeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Infamous-Iron-Man-from-CBR-Image-DAGeeks-e1468216665441.jpg)
Also already mentioned this in the Iron Man thread but I still feel like quickly mentioning it here too. Doctor Doom as Iron Man? Hahahahaha. Actually that being said I would still be willing to gve it a chance, I always liked ol' Doom. Question though, is this honestly his first time attempting to be a super-hero? For a tropey as that sort of thing is you would think they would have tried that spin on Dr. Doom 4-5 times by now at the very least, Huh. (I'm not counting the one-shot future thing he was in)
I mean it really makes me think along the lines of Vote Loki (http://x.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/2/f0/56d602a372b35.jpg) (which, as interesting as that comic is, it has certain implications that probably make it not welcome to be talked about on this forum).
Captain Marvel (http://howtolovecomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/captain_marvel_cover.jpg)
Not much to say here other then thy really seem to be wanting her to be villianized... Odd choice considering how obsessed they are are facilitating the MCU and with her having her first solo movie upcoming (okay, it's still a year or so aways but still doesn't seem like the smartest move trying to make her hated leading up to it...)
Black Panther (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnIvuawWEAE5tQu.jpg)
More just another example of what I was talking about under Champions.
The Unworthy Thor (http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2016/07/kbcnzuswsnxst7ef9s8j-720x1105.png)
This I found rather interesting because while I never really read the Thor titles with as prominent as the newer female Thor has been across various Marvel titles the old Thor hasn't seemed to be making so much of a peep and I was really wondering just what happened with him during all this time. (Seriously, I think the only title I saw the old Thor in post-female Thor was Squirrel Girl of all things, and even then he didn't do much except comment on how good of a kisser his replacement was...)
Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows (http://comicsalliance.com/files/2016/07/Renew-Your-Vows.jpg?w=630&h=856&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89)
Honestly this one is here just for t209
Deadpool & The Mercs For Money (http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/imglib/0/0/1/deadpool-mercs-for-money-4-marvel-now-c447d.jpg)
Okay, I have to admit this one I'm actually looking forward to. For all of Deadpool's popularity, him aside for some reason I just really liked the whole Mercs for Money thing. Just something about them being a group of highly skilled thugs with apparently no where else to go and trying to work out as a team. And now here they are basically starting it again from scratch. And look at that lineup. I mean Domino, Hit Monkey, Machine Man (he's always seemed to be a relatively obscure but favorite of mine), and... is that seriously Negasonic Teenaged Warhead?!
Also talking about the Mercs for Money, aparently the origonal team is branching out off into solo titles, well Slapstick (http://www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Slapstick.jpg), Solo (http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/1468267070794-600x816.jpg), and Foolkiller (http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/1468267187891-600x811.jpg)are at least, not sure why not Terror or Stingray as well. Maybe I should catch up on some of these titles before questioning their continuity? Nah... Honestly out of these Foolkiller is the only one I'm really truly interested in, I loved his side-plot in Mercs for Money about him going through night school to study Psychology and the idea of a comic focusing more on that. It's like the whole She-Hulk thing about a superhero deciding to instead pursue a more mundane career.
Last but not least there's what seems to be the new big thing Marvel is about to get into... Divide We Stand (http://comicsalliance.com/files/2016/06/DWS.jpg). Just coming out of Civil War II we get what looks like... Civil War III? Only this case I guess it's Team Doom and Team Riri?
Two Iron Men enter, One Iron Man leaves!
Well, at least they finally get their head out of the hole.
*cough* inhumans' white washing retconning *cough* no mention of slaves clones *cough*
BiblioRook
2016-07-16, 07:06 PM
Oh no, gosh no. I didn't actually mention what was probably the worst one mainly because I couldn't find the picture from the preview online and I didn't think I could do it justice just by explaining it, but there is an event coming up called 'The Death of X' and the picture that came with it had two parts. The top half of the picture was entirely of various brutalized corpses of major X-Men lying in piles with Cyclops kneeling over them crying out in frustration as the only one alive, everything is tinted red and bloody and post-apocalyptic... while the bottom was of new Inhumans coming out of their pods helps by major Inhuman characters and everything is smiling and happy and its all done in bright cheerful colors and basically is depicted as paradise.
It's... a thing to see.
Edit: Took a picture of it (http://i.imgur.com/Pe8oJrh.jpg)
The Glyphstone
2016-07-16, 07:07 PM
What's with this new and non-disfigured Doom? Does he just wear his armor as a fashion statement now?
BiblioRook
2016-07-16, 07:21 PM
What's with this new and non-disfigured Doom? Does he just wear his armor as a fashion statement now?
Apparently he got fixed up at the end of the Secret Wars thing. I honestly don't know how, only that it happened. Also since then he apparently hasn't been wearing his armor at all and instead has been all suits and ties and trying to go legitimate.
Aotrs Commander
2016-07-16, 07:22 PM
Oh no, gosh no. I didn't actually mention what was probably the worst one mainly because I couldn't find the picture from the preview online and I didn't think I could do it justice just by explaining it, but there is an event coming up called 'The Death of X' and the picture that came with it had two parts. The top half of the picture was entirely of various brutalized corpses of major X-Men lying in piles with Cyclops kneeling over them crying out in frustration as the only one alive, everything is tinted red and bloody and post-apocalyptic... while the bottom was of new Inhumans coming out of their pods helps by major Inhuman characters and everything is smiling and happy and its all done in bright cheerful colors and basically is depicted as paradise.
It's... a thing to see.
Edit: Took a picture of it (http://i.imgur.com/Pe8oJrh.jpg)
Dangit, I just found the image and was about to post it when I saw your edit!
Anyway image search result, little clearer...
http://cdn3-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/marvel-now-2016/download-91.png
I don't think (between this and Pokemon Go) I actually have enough skulldesks left IN me.
I...
Just...
Wow.
Not sure what the mind in Marvel editors now but not sure if they know how to make Inhumans heroes at all.
Next, they might keep not-North Koreans as serf caste but gets to be hero because they were "liberated".
Definitely not in Tau fashion *Sarcasm*. And that includes gelding too.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BYAjyJvPFfI
"Suddenly the populace of Sin-Cong (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Sin-Cong) saw its birth rate dropped to zero after Inhumans overthrew (https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6310045.html#cutid1) their regime. Rumors of sterilization and transformation into their lost slave caste has been thought of."
edit: Sorry for WH40k reference, just the fact that Marvel has intellectual capacity of Highlords of Terra (https://youtu.be/VM_9NRoGUOg?t=1m51s), me sounding like Emperor of Mankind (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgmPFEu5_ck&list=PLyiDf91_bTEgnBN0jAvzNbqzrlMGID5WA&index=14), and Magnus whenever I got into Inhuman (https://youtu.be/6-9XSiNfgk0?t=7m45s) argument. I mean Inhumans are not Tau other than caste system and utilitarian ideals.
And this (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6340507.html#cutid1) made rest of my cynical comments and out-of-blue predictions plausible. Plus turning not-North Korea into gelded serfs (because Alpha Primitives are retconned so that they won't feel bad if they go on political rant if authors feel like it, also because I see them as Marvel equivalent of Tau, minus them being heroic compared to other factions) but get to be good guys because Marvel say so.
Well, not castration but they do plan to have Blackbolt's son aborted at one point in the name of Eugenics.
SaintRidley
2016-07-24, 02:46 AM
Odinson has been appearing in the Thor titles since becoming unworthy, even having a few issues primarily about him (mostly trying to figure out who has the hammer). I've really enjoyed Aaron's run with Thor since the beginning of God of Thunder, so I will keep following the Thor title.
Well, Codex Astartes will not approve of
not trying to double check and try to yell, not going into details (Bendis!) and such.
I think Marvel really needs God-Editor of Mankind.
edit: https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6340507.html
And "Kamala, for your service against X-Men. We will give you a rank within Attila as lower-class citizen, right above our non-existent slave caste and get to be shunned based on your inferior genes. But we get to be good guys because Marvel whitewashed out bad parts to make us X-Men despite not being one."
BiblioRook
2016-07-27, 08:28 PM
I think Marvel really needs God-Editor of Mankind.
edit: https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6340507.html
And "Kamala, for your service against X-Men. We will give you a rank within Attila as lower-class citizen, right above our non-existent slave caste and get to be shunned based on your inferior genes. But we get to be good guys because Marvel whitewashed out bad parts to make us X-Men despite not being one."
...wow, Kamala is really right there front and center, isn't she?
*sigh*
...wow, Kamala is really right there front and center, isn't she?
*sigh*
Seriously, I think X-Men will be the bad guys with good points and ignoring Inhumans that they are a bunch of privileged aristocrats wishing to get to their "slave holding and eugenics caste system" that would gladly put Kamala Khan as outcast and bully her for inferior genes had it not for their stupidity to repopulate or make new Inhumans in safe ways.
I mean next thing you know, they will make Sin-Cong citizens as serf castes (more like Feudal peasants than Alpha Primitives, albeit would be highly educated but they might geld them for racial purity) but get to be good guys since they are from oppressed countries and that means they get "horrible" treatment. (sarcasm)
Aotrs Commander
2016-07-27, 08:36 PM
edit: https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6340507.html
Oh, hey. I DID find some more skulldesks! I really thought I'd run out!
*skulldesk*
*skulldesk*
*skulldesk*
*skulldeskshatter*
Oh, hey. I DID find some more skulldesks! I really thought I'd run out!
*skulldesk*
*skulldesk*
*skulldesk*
*skulldeskshatter*
Well, I am thinking write a fix-fic where the author become a God-Editor of Marvel universe. Also penning Codex Astartes for superheroes and Commissar (less-blamming and more pep-talk) to make sure they won't go far.
Minus one of the lieutenants/sons/whatever relation got upset, started a Civil War, interred to life support engine for months after critically injured, stupid writers decided to murder favorite characters to fuel the machine until recovery months later, unaware or shed microscopic tears of how awful it has become, and quality drops without common sense to guide them.
Ranxerox
2016-07-27, 09:53 PM
@Aotrs Commander
Just thought you would like to know, it looks like Jubilee is going to be a regular in Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat.
BiblioRook
2016-07-27, 10:01 PM
Just thought you would like to know, it looks like Jubilee is going to be a regular in Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat.
I actually really like that series so that's great!
Aotrs Commander
2016-07-28, 03:45 AM
@Aotrs Commander
Just thought you would like to know, it looks like Jubilee is going to be a regular in Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat.
Thanks for the head's up, but honestly, at this point, between the number of times they've used her as a marketing tool, the aforementioned stuff they're doing to the X-Men and everything else... I don't trust 'em anymore. Her showing up as ostensibly a regular in something I've never heard of? Very much sounds like the former again. I mean, it's not like thy have on record, LITERALLY have made a big (deliberately misleading) song and dance about her returning to the X-Men ("Jubilee's coming home!") and then had her make a glorified cameo for one issue, so... Yeah.
The only way this is going to get my interest before hearing other people discuss it (and I have to get the trade, because I don't have a local comic store anymore and thus have to order this stuff months in advance of release - and I'm not willing to extend that level of blind trust again at the moment) is if Majorie Liu is doing the writing and Shogo hasn't been swept under the carpet.
Drascin
2016-07-28, 04:42 AM
...wow, Kamala is really right there front and center, isn't she?
*sigh*
Kamala is, like, the only good Inhuman character. Well, her and Lockjaw, but I think Lockjaw is dead?
That said, she is good, among other things, because she isn't mired in the swamp of bullcrap the Inhumans are, so putting her in there elicits a visceral "NO YOU FOOLS YOU'LL BREAK IT" reaction from me. It's hurting Kamala as a character to prop up the other Inhumans.
Aotrs Commander
2016-07-28, 10:33 AM
Kamala is, like, the only good Inhuman character. Well, her and Lockjaw, but I think Lockjaw is dead?
That said, she is good, among other things, because she isn't mired in the swamp of bullcrap the Inhumans are, so putting her in there elicits a visceral "NO YOU FOOLS YOU'LL BREAK IT" reaction from me. It's hurting Kamala as a character to prop up the other Inhumans.
But she's a popular and well-liked character (I'm told), so of course they are going to milk that and abuse her usage and thus put her in the hands of the idiots that write the "big" stories and thus will make a mess of her...
(People have said - in defense of Marvel etc "don't stop buying comics altogether if they stop writing them about characters you like, buy comics with other characters that are good and then tehy'll see people like that sort of story" - yet what actually appears to happen is they go instead "people like this character, right, stop using them in that thing they are in and put them front and centre with all our big stupid nonsense, that's clearly what people want!")
Kamala is, like, the only good Inhuman character. Well, her and Lockjaw, but I think Lockjaw is dead?
That said, she is good, among other things, because she isn't mired in the swamp of bullcrap the Inhumans are, so putting her in there elicits a visceral "NO YOU FOOLS YOU'LL BREAK IT" reaction from me. It's hurting Kamala as a character to prop up the other Inhumans.
I am guessing X-Men will pull a Red Wedding on Kamala's family for excuse. I mean if Marvel can't find excuse for her to join those Tau-wannabe, they will make one and get rid of side characters.
SaintRidley
2016-07-28, 12:37 PM
But she's a popular and well-liked character (I'm told), so of course they are going to milk that and abuse her usage and thus put her in the hands of the idiots that write the "big" stories and thus will make a mess of her...
(People have said - in defense of Marvel etc "don't stop buying comics altogether if they stop writing them about characters you like, buy comics with other characters that are good and then tehy'll see people like that sort of story" - yet what actually appears to happen is they go instead "people like this character, right, stop using them in that thing they are in and put them front and centre with all our big stupid nonsense, that's clearly what people want!")
Or, as the case is here, they use her in this big thing and keep using her in the thing everybody likes too.
BiblioRook
2016-07-28, 12:44 PM
I am guessing X-Men will pull a Red Wedding on Kamala's family for excuse. I mean if Marvel can't find excuse for her to join those Tau-wannabe, they will make one and get rid of side characters.
Jesus. Always with this sort of thing from you. Seriously.
Anyways, technically they've been dramatizing Kamala for a while now, I would argue that that all started when they had her join the Avengers. Right form the get-go I hated this idea. Her thing was trying to balance real-life (ie: family and school) and super-heroing and she was struggling with that just when it was her paroling the suburbs of New Jersey, it seemed unrealistic that taking on Avenger levels of responsibility would be something a high-schooler with a secret identity could handle, much less that in addition to the mundane New Jersey patrols.
Then there was the whole drama-bomb about turning her against Carl Danvers in Civil War II which honestly seemed like the no-turning-back point for her. Honestly I never even actually found out what this was for as much as I've been avoiding anything involving that event but a peak into it seems to suggest that Carol (or rather Carol's organization) enlisted Kamala to help stop up criminals before the crimes were committed and one of said 'criminals' ended up being a classmate of hers.
I actually find it hilarious that apparently somewhere along the lines of Civil War II they find a way to get her (and her friends) to also turn against the other Avengers and quit the team (http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/1467402270/marvel-2.jpg). No idea what leads into that however. But yeah, Kamala being involved in drama is nothing new at this point unfortunately.
Aotrs Commander
2016-07-28, 12:47 PM
Or, as the case is here, they use her in this big thing and keep using her in the thing everybody likes too.
I was generalising a bit. Point being, it's quite possible that her inclusion of these... less than good big events may mean she's exposed to the same potentially-character-damaging crap that the big events seem to infect characters with these days, which quite likely can bleed back through to the character outside of those events. I mean, while I have no personal investment in her, I sincerely hope for the sake of the folks who do that she comes through all this unscathed as a character.
I just don't trust 'em not to manage to screw her over somehow.
Jesus. Always with this sort of thing from you. Seriously.
Anyways, technically they've been dramatizing Kamala for a while now, I would argue that that all started when they had her join the Avengers. Right form the get-go I hated this idea. Her thing was trying to balance real-life (ie: family and school) and super-heroing and she was struggling with that just when it was her paroling the suburbs of New Jersey, it seemed unrealistic that taking on Avenger levels of responsibility would be something a high-schooler with a secret identity could handle, much less that in addition to the mundane New Jersey patrols.
Then there was the whole drama-bomb about turning her against Carl Danvers in Civil War II which honestly seemed like the no-turning-back point for her. Honestly I never even actually found out what this was for as much as I've been avoiding anything involving that event but a peak into it seems to suggest that Carol (or rather Carol's organization) enlisted Kamala to help stop up criminals before the crimes were committed and one of said 'criminals' ended up being a classmate of hers.
I am feeing that Civil War II has not been well thought of,
if she and Iron Man decided to work together, get a doctor to check on his brain, and stop yelling each other; they might have learned that he is making alternate reality sooner.
Also, this is much tamer of my upcoming rants. Like calling Inhumans as Tau (caste-driven, eugenics, and "big thing" by companies, except Tau are much nicer in horrible universe), relegating Kamala to lower class and bullied for inferior genes, and turning recently liberated country as gelded feudal serfs.
But Inhumans will be good guys (like Teen Titans Go, but more spraying acid to some Inhuman for no reason) since Marvel say so.
BiblioRook
2016-07-28, 01:00 PM
More surprising this this for me is Marvel getting the likes of Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl, and Gwenpool (http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/3061358-inline-i-2-half-marvel.png) involved in some mini-event drama (and yes, Kamala too). I mean up to this point these have been all strictly comedic characters that usually are spared the drama of the rest of the Mervel-verse (Arguably that's Squirrel Girl's whole point, as he writers said "we wanted a comic book to remind people when super heroes were fun"). Squirrel Girl actually had to dodge a few bullets like this before considering how they insisted on sticking her on a super-hero team (again, a concept I was opposed too) and having said team get right involved in the whole Present Hill fiasco but they actually did her right and had her 'quit the team' along with a few others right before all that went down and avoid being involved. Moon Girl and Gwenpool feel like there's no excuse though, I mean one being in elementary school and the other not only uninvolved but savvy enough to avoid this sort of nonsense.
I am feeing that Civil War II has not been well thought of,
if she and Iron Man decided to work together, get a doctor to check on his brain, and stop yelling each other; they might have learned that he is making alternate reality sooner.
Actually
I kind of like where Civil War II is going...
By which I mean it looks like they're ending it soon, without ever really devolving into a "Half the Heroes vs The Other Half" war like Civil War I did.
Last I saw, Tony Stark, who despite some scuffles was still welcome within the larger superheroic community, had presented his findings on Ulysses's powers, and told everybody "no, he's not seeing the future, he's just taking in a massive amount of information and making very good educated guesses".
At this point, we're still firmly in the realm of "Two sides with good intentions having a debate", since Stark was able to call together a peaceful meeting of the various superhero types.
Carol is apparently the only one in the room who wants to keep going forwards with using the visions. Issue ends with Tony having basically all of Earth's Mightiest Heroes on his side, with Carol having called in the Guardians of the Galaxy, who probably don't really know what's going on.
And, I would be happy if we got one final superbrawl, an explanation for why Carol was so aggressively enthusiastic about using the visions, then everybody makes nice with each other, but we've got another 3 issues, so that's probably not going to happen.
Instead
Issue 5 is Superbrawl, Carol and her people are defeated, but they escape and get one last Dire Prediction from Ulysses. Carol, firmly cast in the role of "Unreasonable Idiot" in this arc will decide to Cross a Line of some sort in order to prevent the tragedy.
Issue 6, going with the conclusion that the Visions are affecting Ulysses, which is in turn affecting his reading of the Visions, Tony and Co learn about the Prediction that he gave Carol, while also getting some sort of evidence that the Visions are no longer reliable (Seeing terrible tragedies happen over and over has caused Ulysses to bias his predictions in favor of the Worst Possible interpretation of whatever information his powers are taking in.) Tony and Co race to stop Carol from blowing up the moon or something.
Issue 7: They stop Carol from blowing up the moon, they say "hey, Ulysses's powers were becoming increasingly unreliable as his mental state deteriorated." Ulysses is either put in a medically induced coma, or his powers short out. Everybody makes nice, but Carol's reputation as The Hero To Look Up To is tarnished, as is her self-confidence. Hawkeye has to deal with the consequences of killing Bruce Banner, Tony Stark decides he's tired of fighting leaving room for the other two Iron Men to step up.
Bruce Banner comes back to life in time for Thor: Ragnarok to come out, X-Men vs Inhumans fails to make people care about the Inhumans, in six months the whole "Captain America thinks he's a Hydra agent" storyline is quietly wrapped up and never mentioned again.
Or that's my guess anyway, Let's see if they can end this without turning one of their flagship characters into a villain/advocate for profiling (And they've used the "Future Visions=Profiling" thing multiple times).
Actually
I kind of like where Civil War II is going...
By which I mean it looks like they're ending it soon, without ever really devolving into a "Half the Heroes vs The Other Half" war like Civil War I did.
Last I saw, Tony Stark, who despite some scuffles was still welcome within the larger superheroic community, had presented his findings on Ulysses's powers, and told everybody "no, he's not seeing the future, he's just taking in a massive amount of information and making very good educated guesses".
At this point, we're still firmly in the realm of "Two sides with good intentions having a debate", since Stark was able to call together a peaceful meeting of the various superhero types.
Carol is apparently the only one in the room who wants to keep going forwards with using the visions. Issue ends with Tony having basically all of Earth's Mightiest Heroes on his side, with Carol having called in the Guardians of the Galaxy, who probably don't really know what's going on.
And, I would be happy if we got one final superbrawl, an explanation for why Carol was so aggressively enthusiastic about using the visions, then everybody makes nice with each other, but we've got another 3 issues, so that's probably not going to happen.
Instead
Issue 5 is Superbrawl, Carol and her people are defeated, but they escape and get one last Dire Prediction from Ulysses. Carol, firmly cast in the role of "Unreasonable Idiot" in this arc will decide to Cross a Line of some sort in order to prevent the tragedy.
Issue 6, going with the conclusion that the Visions are affecting Ulysses, which is in turn affecting his reading of the Visions, Tony and Co learn about the Prediction that he gave Carol, while also getting some sort of evidence that the Visions are no longer reliable (Seeing terrible tragedies happen over and over has caused Ulysses to bias his predictions in favor of the Worst Possible interpretation of whatever information his powers are taking in.) Tony and Co race to stop Carol from blowing up the moon or something.
Issue 7: They stop Carol from blowing up the moon, they say "hey, Ulysses's powers were becoming increasingly unreliable as his mental state deteriorated." Ulysses is either put in a medically induced coma, or his powers short out. Everybody makes nice, but Carol's reputation as The Hero To Look Up To is tarnished, as is her self-confidence. Hawkeye has to deal with the consequences of killing Bruce Banner, Tony Stark decides he's tired of fighting leaving room for the other two Iron Men to step up.
Bruce Banner comes back to life in time for Thor: Ragnarok to come out, X-Men vs Inhumans fails to make people care about the Inhumans, in six months the whole "Captain America thinks he's a Hydra agent" storyline is quietly wrapped up and never mentioned again.
Or that's my guess anyway, Let's see if they can end this without turning one of their flagship characters into a villain/advocate for profiling (And they've used the "Future Visions=Profiling" thing multiple times).
Well, on the bright side, they managed to stop punching each other for that long.
On the other, they're demonizing Carol and trying to make what is "snitch with mental issue" as racial profiling (https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6332986.html#cutid1). I really mean it.
And Nick Spencer, times sure is different from when he wrote Superior Foes of Spiderman, trying to be political but ended up as "punching things to solve everything" with trying to use strawmen rather than reasonable debate (I mean Americops being visibility evil, trying what is the head of union of snake-themed assassin into corporate leader, and Red Skull leading Right-Wing militia). Not to mention treating his critics negatively.
And still trying to make Avengers Assemble without trying to improve FOR FIVE YEARS! (Even DC decided to make Justice League Action--at least much better than TTG--after 3 years after Teen Titans Go!) and might ruin Kamala Khan as well. Like trying to swap model palette with Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Kamala Khan, Wasp, and Antman into previous characters without bothering to add depth and go beyond simple plots.
edit: Granted that they are making shorts (https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/756955951345786880) but IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE A YEAR AFTER REALIZING HOW MUCH THEY MESSED UP.
Dang it, Permultter and the High Lords (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM_9NRoGUOg&feature=youtu.be&t=1m51s) of Marvel.
Well, on the bright side, they managed to stop punching each other for that long.
On the other, they're demonizing Carol and trying to make what is "snitch with mental issue" as racial profiling (https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6332986.html#cutid1). I really mean it.
They really like the "Future Visions=Racial Profiling" Metaphor, but it falls apart in a pretty serious way.
Profiling is bad because, by nature, it relies on generalizations and stereotypes. "People who look like X are more likely to commit crimes, you look like X, so I'm going to assume you are a criminal".
Ulysses power, as described, is too specific for that. It's not giving them generalizations, it's giving them exact times, dates, and perpetrators. It's not saying "This is the sort of place Thanos is likely to attack", it's saying "Thanos will attack this place at this time."
In Ms Marvel, the random superteens Carol assigns to her, when arresting her classmate, say he "Fits the Profile", a white male teenager who recently went through a bad breakup. Except that's not why he was targeted. In fact, Kamala wasn't even given his name or description, just an address.
If they wanted to do the Profiling angle, then they would need to make the visions less specific. "Somebody with Telekinetic powers is going to do something bad", so they round up everybody with TK powers.
Now, what they COULD go with is the whole Punish Innocents vs Let The Guilty Go Free angle, and that's what it seems like they're doing by introducing the idea that the visions are unreliable. The last issue has Tony start listing percentages, asking Carol "At what success rate will you stop acting on this".
To which carol replies "If there was only a 10% chance of Thanos showing up at some place, I WOULD STILL ACT ON IT!".
Which is stupid, because if Ulysses is wrong about a Thanos attack, all it means is that some Superheroes wasted some time waiting for an attack that didn't happen. The real issue is "At what point do we trust these visions enough to start violating people's rights based on them".
But, just as with Civil War I, comic book writers are bad at nuance, so inevitably we're going to see Carol turned into a paranoid maniac who wants to keep using the visions in face of overwhelming evidence that they're unreliable.
BiblioRook
2016-07-28, 03:43 PM
Not related to the Civil War II bit but I found out something interesting (to me at least); Venom is getting a new series.
Well strictly speaking I already knew about it as I saw it in the preview book but honestly kind of glossed over it because, well Venom already has an ongoing series (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/4916040-0d+venomsk2015001_dc41-0.jpg).
Some background for people who never bothered with Venom. At some point the Venom symbiote got captured and put under the control of the US Military. Flash Thomson (former bully of Peter Parker) was volunteered as the new host having recently lost his legs in action. Flash ended up bonding with Venom more completely then any other host and eventually broke off from military control. After a while (fallowing his own space adventures) Iron Man got the idea that the Guardians of the Galaxy should really have an Earth representative among them and again Flash was volunteered. He's kinda been a part of the GotG ever since. During this time they really went into just what the symbiotes are and why they do what they do and why the Venom symbiote specifically is so violent, more then that actually but fixed it too (I guess). Which leads into the 'new' series.
The reason I brought it up is after going though the newer part of the Space Knight series they gave a good hint at what the new series is going to go into, mainly Venom retiring from his space adventures and returning to Earth to settle some unfinished business in the form of a sorta-clone of Venom he accidentally made in the form of Mania (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/b/b8/Andrea_Benton_(Earth-616)_from_Venom_Vol_2_38_001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130801003517) (made after using Venom to try saving a teenaged girl that got caught in the crossfire between him and his enemies). Sorry if I'm rambling but I find this exciting. As much as I was enjoying the Venom space adventures I always felt bad that Mania as a character was so quickly and utterly stuck in the long list of 'Characters never seen or mentioned again', so I look forward to see what comes out of this.
My one problem with this however is I keep seeing mention about Venom choosing a new host for Marvel NOW, this bothers me because like I mentioned they make such a point how just so perfect the bond between Flash and Venom is as far as symboite and host goes. The one exception I might be willing to go with is Andrea Benton (Mania), but even then I can't see a reason why they would go that route. Eh, as long as they don't try to force him back into being a villain for no reason I guess, that's what I'm most concerned with.
Playing and reading some Warhammer and Warhammer 40k lore (not Matt Ward part). Well, sad that Marvel could have used a cosmic war to make them popular. I mean flip a book in Warhammer 40k and try to get inspiration, particularly Siege of Vraks and Gothic War (of course, who else be Fail-baddon either Annihilus or some Chitauri warlords).
Instead, they think that somehow acting like Teen Titans Go (with acid spraying on some new guy (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6313718.html#cutid1) and abusing some prophet for no reason (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6351552.html#cutid1)) and making that malicious event may somehow bring them over. Consider that they try to still brodcast Avengers Assemble and now Guardians of the Galaxy without trying to improve, maintain continuity, or even expand the roster at all, no surprise for High Lords of Marvel.
Maybe I have a idea based on old Warhammer lore about two dwarf clan for Inhuman vs. Mutants (less-stupid if possible).
As per some reasonable, the two groups decided to have negotiations. Just as they are about to have a good outcome, statues fall straight on to mediators/Avengers/third party/ and people with enough sanity but too specific of a target to be accurate. Then one dumb person said, "wait, if some higher being flatten them and broke the hospitality rule, then we must fight against each other to appease him". Cue battle and then secret invasion except most people are pretty much knobbled or exhausted before putting up a fight.
BiblioRook
2016-08-18, 12:15 AM
So lately I've noticed that a lot of the smaller titles I read have been getting interjected with by bigger characters and/or events. Not that it's really that surprising considering that everything is part of the same universe and the companies that be love to remind readers of that fact but honestly it's kind of annoying because one of the main reasons I tend to focus so much on the smaller titles is that they usually get spared the kinds of drama that plagues the rest of the 'verse. Particularly I'm talking bout the likes of Moon Girl and Gwenpool.
For Moon Girl it's just a matter of Ms. Marvel popping in to setting some of the mess she puts herself in, I don't really know where that's going to be leading to honestly, but while I'm bringing it up I guess it warrants pointing out that Moon Girl is also Inhuman as well so who knows if she's eventually going to get caught up in all that too.
Gwenpool is a little weirder as they are taking someone who is clearly for all intents and purposes a joke character and are slowly trying to make her a legitimate non-joke character I guess? Don't get me wrong, I actually like Gwenpool as this outsider exploring the Marvel world and what, but I don't know how to take her if they start trying to take her seriously. Her last issue was basically all about teaming up with Miles Morales. Again I don't know if it will mean much down the line but considering the whole 'Divided We Stand' picture I have worries.. At first it honestly started out kind of funny, Gwen recognizes Miles in public (meta knowledge being her 'super-power') and gets a little star-struck which (understandably) freaks out a bit (I do like how she handles it when he confronts her about it)
"Who are you? How do you know who I am!?"
I don't need him thinking I'm crazy right now...
"I'm just a normal girl who was gifted with secret knowledge by a dying Watcher."
"...Okay, damn."
Then ambiguous superheroing happens where they work together, eh.
Also the next issues promises that she'll get caught up in Civil War II stuff. Gwenpool in Civil War II...
I guess I could add A-Force to the list to, but given that half the members of that are central to the whole Civil War II thing getting that mucked up was absolutely unavoidable...
One question though. The conflict in A-Force tying into CWII is that it was 'seen' that one of the members (Nico) was going to murder some woman none of them knew named Alice, to which she runs off to avoid getting arrested and the team is split on how to deal with her. It's not described why she kills this woman or who this woman is supposed to be, it just really makes me wonder just how far are you going to press normal conventional laws when applied to super-humans? I mean if nothing else it just seems a whole lot of small fish. "Oh no, we much use these future seeing powers to prevent the incidental death of a single person." Meanwhile I find it hard to believe that normal everyday super-crimes are still happening regardless of what Ulysses is having visions for that must be going almost completely unchecked because literally every hero in the Marvel world is ether chasing after shadows or trying to stop the other half from doing so...
This all is kind of funny considering that the title that I fallow the most, Squirrel Girl, has almost the opposite problem. I mean Squirrel Girl is honestly involved with a whole bunch of things yet seems to do a good job of not letting any of it get caught up in her own comic (for now) which keeps it nicely drama free. I'm going to be really sad when that's no longer the case, seems only a matter of time...
www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493202-Inhumans-Why-are-they-quot-heroes-quot-again/page2
Well, finally had a discussion with what is basically a debate and a fit by me.
- So far Inhumans is allowing The Beast to do research. which haven't been mentioned and turned into "Mutants 2.0" in their marketing.
- Apparently, Marvel writers are ignoring all "not minorities" in what is basically got outcast due to gas leak and X-Men already go those.
- Apparently, they finally mentioned "bad side effects" of Terrigen Mists, which they have been ignoring for gazillions of issues to make them mutants.
- Apparently, they seem to forget about giant Vacuum Cleaner and some groups managed to get samples of them.
Let's just say that Marvel haven't marketed them too well and still sticking head in hole on making Tau-wannabes a thing, like their Marvel animations that they haven't still thinking about improving and very poorly-timed MCU Tie-ins.
BiblioRook
2016-09-15, 01:25 AM
...Wow. Just... I don't know.
So as anyone who fallows Marvel probably knows by now, Bruce Banner was killed.
'Big deal', right? But after all, he is a major player in the Marvel World and likely wouldn't leave him dead for long. Weeelll as it turns out... his corpse just got stolen by The Hand. Anyone ready for a ninja zombie Hulk? If I were being told this by someone else would swear that were outright bsing me, but you;ll have to take my word for it.
Well, I seem to meet people who still try to defend Tau-wannabes called Inhumans.
- claimed that they are not a bunch of elitists trying to be minority despite having done so.
- despite let knowingly stockpile weapons, even WMD, they still claim that it's legitimate.
- out of place Game of Thrones houses/tau-wannabes that would make them villains.
- not trying to contain the gas even an inbred people like them can come up with giant vacuum cleaner and not trying to make them remotely heroic and not trying to make them separate along with editors with mental aptitude of High Lords of Terra (next thing you know, they will get away with gelding and enslaving notNorth Koreans that liberated earlier, just like Tau propaganda except true and less benign).
- butt tons of retcons (slavery, caste system, turning into abomination, and eugenics) to make them palatable.
- forcing victims to act like minorities despite the said monarch dropping a gas bomb as a form of survival without idea on scanners or trying to test for potential rather than letting the gas roam. Also Inhumans can still be normal if they do not get the gas. I mean Triton is well-cared but had he been look like Chaos Spawn, he would be lovingly kicked and abused.
I mean the only way to improve it is to make Inhumans separate and make them like Space Marines* (the quirky and varying chapters to high failure rates for recruits, along with whether to keep slaves or not). Or having a team of superheroes to defeat other superhero teams (like Minotaurs (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Minotaurs), Space Sharks (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyberos), and pre-heresy Space Wolves from wh40k having a child with Garth Ennis' The Boys) just to keep the conflicts in check (with acceptable bias against Inhumans). Or meta equivalent of God Emperor (or God Editor) from Text To Speech to make universe sane and less idiotic.
* maybe not Tau, but Inhumans are definitely more like Ultramarines due to being MCU spoiled brat and would be glad to see them pommeled by space bugs with leader lovingly nicknamed Gargamel. Definitely not Space Wolves since only one turned into a furry is Lockjaw. But since I said abominations, Chaos Spacemarine suits them better.
BiblioRook
2016-09-16, 05:26 AM
... t209, as much I would very much rather to just say out of it I really have to say just how frustrating you can be with these angry Inhuman rants. It's not just so much that you are so obsessed with it as much as you never really even seem to say anything different about it. Always feels like the same things over and over again, right down to the same overly-specific Warhammer comparison.
Now I can't really say if other people like or hate what you have to say on the subject, goodness know no one is probably interest in the things I've been trying to talk about. but I'm really getting to feel like the reason it's so hard to get a Marvel conversation going around here is every time anything remotely like one comes up you take advantage of it to get on your soapbox and continue ranting about the same stuff all over again without caring if anyone is actually listening or not. I guess what I'm asking is... please just give it a rest? Or at the very least considering you made a whole thread about talking about specifically to just maybe keep it to that thread.
I mean really, if you honestly hate the Inhumans so much why do you insist on reading them and keep up with what's going on with them? I mean I can't stand stuff like Civil War II and sure a lot of it is very unavoidable, but the last thing I try is to seek it out just so I can bitch about it.
Though in hindsight I guess the angry ranting is still preferable to the wild speculation on how Marvel is due for a random bloodbath just because maybe you feel things haven't been dramatic enough recently, so I'm not really asking you to get started back on that again ether. I guess I just don't really know what to ask from you.
Psyren
2016-09-16, 09:08 AM
@ Inhumans: I guess my question would be, what would the detractors expect Marvel to do? In the end comics are a business and they want to use these characters, their characters. Yeah, they have horrible backstories, just like Fantastic Four used to be amazingly sexist and Superman was amazingly racist. Perhaps in the eyes of some, the Inhumans' brand is irredeemably tainted and should be scrapped entirely in favor of something totally new, but I don't think that is the case.
Also, +1 BiblioRook.
Quiver
2016-09-16, 09:24 AM
... I'm still kind of surprised that people think Marvel is going to actuall outright kill all of the X-Men in Death of X?
I mean... I can see a few deaths. I rather suspect that Death of X is a placeholder title, and in the end, the story will be reveal as the Death of X, as in [X], the Character.
Yeah, Marvel is milking the imagery of the X-Men dying while the Inhumans thrive, because... look at the opinions it's unearthing. Frankly, I just can't see Marvel posting images of Dead Mutants juxtaposed with Living Inhumans as anything other than trolling.
Marvels knows how fans feel about the Mutant-Inhuman thing. Of course they are going to play into it.
For my own part, and very neutrally? I like the concept of the Inhumans, when they are being the Inhumans. They are the closest analogue to Game of Thrones Marvel has; lineages stretching back thousands of years, a society whose major stories for the past few decades have been about the Royal Family's Power Struggles.
I think there are a lot of really itneresting stories that can be told with the Inhumans. Making them Mutantslite doesn't just har the X-Men franchise, it waters down the Inhumans and makes them less interesting as well.
...But the idea that Marvel is going to kill the X-Men and the Mutant race is absurd. Do the X-Men have fewer books these days? Probably... but that hardly means they are trying to kill the franchise. After all, didn't some Inhuman books just get cancelled?
Sorry if I'm aggressive. But, I am really tired of hearing that Marvel is killing all the mutants. I'll believe it when the last issue of X-Men get's cancelled, and everyone is dead. Until then, it's just Marvel, trolling a readership to incite opinions and get sales.
Well, just throwing a fit after returning from scans daily (going normal until I read the comments) and lack of reply on questions on "Mutant false flags" (trying to act like oppressed minorities while taking advantage of it) and "author's insistence being contradictory" (calling their empire building as galactic peace).
For the Warhammer comparisons, I mean Inhumans reminded me of how Warhammer introduction of Tau (caste system, eugenics, and trying to be a new thing) went, except latter is actually one of decent factions (though still hear detractors that they will turn evil once they expand more) in Warhammer. And sterilization on humans is a rumor for the Tau.
Quiver
2016-09-16, 09:46 AM
Since this is the General Marvel page, I might as well ask... any books you guys would recommend?
I've been sticking to DC for a while now, but I'm thinking of dipping my toe into Marvel waters. I'm tmempted to dive into the Champions when it's released... but honestly, the only characters I know, or care about, in that line up are Ms Marvel and Teen!Cyke.
(I have been collecting the All New Wolverine volumes as they've been released though)
So far as my taste in DC comics goes (so you guys know where I'm coming from...) I've been enjoying... well, a lot of stuff from Rebirth, actually. But I'll cite Green Arrow, Supergirl and Deathstroke as examples of books I'm really digging at the moment. I'm interested in that sort of social commentary stuff when it's written well. Been considering picking up Captain Marvel and/or Ms Marvel, but... Civil War II hasn't endeared Carol to me.
Since this is the General Marvel page, I might as well ask... any books you guys would recommend?
I've been sticking to DC for a while now, but I'm thinking of dipping my toe into Marvel waters. I'm tmempted to dive into the Champions when it's released... but honestly, the only characters I know, or care about, in that line up are Ms Marvel and Teen!Cyke.
(I have been collecting the All New Wolverine volumes as they've been released though)
So far as my taste in DC comics goes (so you guys know where I'm coming from...) I've been enjoying... well, a lot of stuff from Rebirth, actually. But I'll cite Green Arrow, Supergirl and Deathstroke as examples of books I'm really digging at the moment. I'm interested in that sort of social commentary stuff when it's written well. Been considering picking up Captain Marvel and/or Ms Marvel, but... Civil War II hasn't endeared Carol to me.
Explicitly current ongoing books? Or just recent Marvel stuff in general.
Quiver
2016-09-16, 10:17 AM
Explicitly current ongoing books? Or just recent Marvel stuff in general.
I'd prefer ongoing, or stuff which will be starting after Civil War II.
I... prefer the on-going narrative of stuff.
I'd prefer ongoing, or stuff which will be starting after Civil War II.
I... prefer the on-going narrative of stuff.
Well, since Civil-War II is being dragged out into Christmas, that's a tall order.
Especially since Marvel JUST got done rebooting their universe after Secret Wars.
Anyway, my favorite Ongoing books are probably Black Panther, The Ultimates, Thor, Ms Marvel and Spider-Gwen. Ms Marvel and Spider-Gwen started before Secret Wars, and their plotline is basically uninterrupted,(Ms Marvel had an arc about the end of the world, but whatever).
I think there are a lot of really itneresting stories that can be told with the Inhumans. Making them Mutantslite doesn't just har the X-Men franchise, it waters down the Inhumans and makes them less interesting as well.
(Erased due to realizing how much of a fit it was).
BiblioRook
2016-09-16, 12:54 PM
... I'm still kind of surprised that people think Marvel is going to actuall outright kill all of the X-Men in Death of X?
I mean... I can see a few deaths. I rather suspect that Death of X is a placeholder title, and in the end, the story will be reveal as the Death of X, as in [X], the Character.
But they already killed off Xavier :smalltongue:
But nah, I never expect that they would totally wipe out mutants. I mean for a while it was thier biggest cash-cow and still holds the potential to be so again. 0ne of the reasons people complain about the treatment of the X-Men in books is because how much the series means to them, if they didn't care I imagine this whole Anti-mutant phase Marvel is going though would be a lot more water under the bridge. I mean, what if Fox decided to one day give the film rights back or something only for Marvel to realize to late that they already killed all the characters worth a damn?
But really if there's any evidence that the mutants are going to be fine it's this: Deadpool's daughter has the x-gene, or at least he's convinced this is the case. While I guess it's not technically verified and could possibly end up he was wrong it certainly doesn't feel like something they would set up just so they could kill her off dramatically along with the rest of the mutant race (to take a page out of t209's book). And besides, you know Eventually Professor X will have to come back, though presumably they will have to get his brain back from the Red Skull first...
Since this is the General Marvel page, I might as well ask... any books you guys would recommend?
I've been sticking to DC for a while now, but I'm thinking of dipping my toe into Marvel waters. I'm tmempted to dive into the Champions when it's released... but honestly, the only characters I know, or care about, in that line up are Ms Marvel and Teen!Cyke.
(I have been collecting the All New Wolverine volumes as they've been released though)
So far as my taste in DC comics goes (so you guys know where I'm coming from...) I've been enjoying... well, a lot of stuff from Rebirth, actually. But I'll cite Green Arrow, Supergirl and Deathstroke as examples of books I'm really digging at the moment. I'm interested in that sort of social commentary stuff when it's written well. Been considering picking up Captain Marvel and/or Ms Marvel, but... Civil War II hasn't endeared Carol to me.
Ms. Marvel is very good, but I would definitely recommend the first series of her (even though it ends a bit abruptly in a way that didn't go anywhere) over the second as they really try to dramatize her more as her series goes on. It's not that it gets bad necessarily, but I really miss the jovial fun-ness her series has to offer when it was just starting out. It's still there kinda but feels a bit more subdued...
On that note, the first two Captain Marvel series are really good too. If you really want to see the side of Carol that is endeared this is where you will find it, I mean in the second one she goes off to have adventures in space with the Guardians of the Galaxy with her cat. There's a reason I hate Civil War II so much, I adore Captain Marvel but this series feels like Marvel is trying to sabotage her popularity at a time they should e trying to hype it up leading up to her movie, but I guess that is still a ways away enough for them to have plenty of time to run damage control on this cesspool of a mini-series.
Part of the problem with Captain Marvel though is the burdens of responsibilities. In the first two series I recommended (and really the entirety of her Ms. Marvel run too I guess) is that she's very much just a 'normal person', yes one with nearly unrivaled super-powers and an Avengers membership but I really enjoyed seeing her needing to deal with everyday 'normal people' problems among her super human ones. Eventually though she rose to be one of the biggest big-wigs in the Marvel universe (Director of S.W.O.R.D., basically like S.H.E.L.D. but only more offensive then defensive) when now you have to manage troubles and concerns on a galactic nature you no longer get the luxury of worrying about petty every-day personal problems.
On the subject of movies coming out, the current Doctor Strange series is also pretty amazing and well worth recommending regardless of the movie. The All New Wolverine is also another excellent choice, but you are already reading that one and I feel I need to recommend the She-Hulk comics just on principle as that series never gets enough attention (though it's definitely a 'super-hero' comic of a different sort). Unfortunately I know basically diddly squat about DC so even with your list to compare with I wouldn't know what titles would work for you (aside from knowing that recommending Deadpool to a Deathstroke fan sounds like an awfully bad idea). I hear lot so good things about Spider-Gwen and Silk but personally haven't gotten around to reading them myself.
Unfortunately most of my favorite titles (like Squirrel Girl or Moon Girl) probably aren't the best to recommend to someone new to Marvel or looking for a serious recommendation in something super-hero-y, just for differences in tone if nothing else...
For once I agree with you, Bibliorock.
Just until I threw another for after reading ScansDaily's comments that somehow sound legitimate despite being told it's not.
At lead if Marvel decided to get their heads out of MCU and make comic universe separate.
For civil war 2, It's Bendis, since when did he respect continuity or any of his non-favorite character right after making Scarlet Witch into a mass murderer. I mean I feel bad for her whenever Vision discuss his marriage with her or the comic told her about Billy and Tommy. Not to mention making Guardians into all-human earth centric group. I mean hand that event to be finished by Al Ewing and that would be salvageable.
Thrudd
2016-09-17, 10:37 AM
I'd prefer ongoing, or stuff which will be starting after Civil War II.
I... prefer the on-going narrative of stuff.
I second Dr. Strange, Black Panther, too.
The current Amazing Spider-Man is quite good imo. You can absolutely ignore the civil war 2 spider man mini series, it doesn't affect or cross over with the ongoing series at all.
Astonishing Ant Man is also fun. Though you should pick up the back issues of Ant-Man which came out in 2015, before secret wars started, since the current series is just a continuation of that.
Well, at least Black Panther is going well without ranting about hypocritical statements on reality while hoarding technology, cancer curing rocks, and developing weapons with last one being their distrust.
And chewing a president out who came to wedding on good will, which they might counter it with hypocrisy that the BET executive doesn't realize.
(sorry for Warhammer reference but definitely something Adeptus Mechanicus would do.)
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6450429.html
So why are Inhumans supposed to be heroes again and why the Gue-Vasa wannbe Nu-Human *ahem* still serving the ones who gassed them and probably killed/maimed tons of people with it?
I mean granted that it was Black Bolt and somehow Terrigen can't be contained (*cough* Kamala Khan, Spider-fluid gas bag, and giant vacuum cleaner *cough*), but the execution was not perfect and stockpiling weapons didn't help.
BiblioRook
2016-09-19, 07:29 PM
Again, don't you already have a thread specifically for ranting about Inhumans (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493202-Inhumans-Why-are-they-quot-heroes-quot-again)?
Again, don't you already have a thread specifically for ranting about Inhumans (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493202-Inhumans-Why-are-they-quot-heroes-quot-again)?
My own sudden fit getting best of me again.
Other than Marvel trying to make everything MCU tie in.
BiblioRook
2016-09-20, 12:37 AM
So I just found out about this (https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6449505.html#cutid1); She-Hulk coming back and apparently taking over the Hulk series in Bruce's absence. I guess I would say I feel a bit conflicted.
On one hand it's great that Jen probably will be getting some good focus here and honestly a more serious She-Hulk story does make sense given what she just went through... on the other hand I'm really not getting the impression that this would be nothing like the stories that made me such a fan of her in the first place. So what, she's going to go all ragey and smash stuff? Go back to her 'Savage' days a bit only minus the little white dress? I'll probably still read it but I can't say I'm looking forward to it. One of the things that made She-Hulk so interesting as a character was that she wasn't just The Hulk but female.
On that note, just what's going on with Cho these days? One of the big problems with comic events is that they often expect you to read several dozen different series to get the whole picture when you only might be interested in two or three. I actually really liked what they were doing with 'The Totally Awesome Hulk', it was the Hulk only lighter and funner as the new Hulk had all of the powers but (mostly) none of the rage and instead was just smart as well as powerful instead of having to be one or the other (a kind of... male She-Hulk if you will). Thing is while I've been fallowing it, unless I missed an issue or to there hasn't seemed to be anything new from his title since Civil War II can out, and considering that I'm pretty sure he got caught up in the CWII nonsense pretty directly I find that odd but I'm really not about to delve into any CWII books to find out what that all might have ended up.
On a separate subject, I don't suppose there are any X-Men fans that could catch me up on where the X-Men actually are these days? Or rather more specifically, who's all active these days? Last bit I read of the X-men was some of the All-New stuff to see how the whole time-displaced original team business went down, but I haven't really kept up with it might beyond, well I guess the point where it hit the Secret Wars (goddam event arcs...). Since then the only X-Man I really kept close tabs on has been X-23 (All-New All-Different Wolverine) and she is pretty exclusively solo without overlapping with other X-Men in her title (which is odd considering I'm pretty sure she appears plenty in other titles, comic book continuity is weird). Aside from her the only ones I really know much about have been others that went off and did their own non-X-men things like Kitty Pryde (Guardians of the Galaxy), Rogue (Uncanny Avengers), and Jubilee (Hellcat).
OK, managed to snap out of fit now and going back into more appropriate topic.
So I just found out about this (https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6449505.html#cutid1); She-Hulk coming back and apparently taking over the Hulk series in Bruce's absence. I guess I would say I feel a bit conflicted.
On one hand it's great that Jen probably will be getting some good focus here and honestly a more serious She-Hulk story does make sense given what she just went through... on the other hand I'm really not getting the impression that this would be nothing like the stories that made me such a fan of her in the first place. So what, she's going to go all ragey and smash stuff? Go back to her 'Savage' days a bit only minus the little white dress? I'll probably still read it but I can't say I'm looking forward to it. One of the things that made She-Hulk so interesting as a character was that she wasn't just The Hulk but female.
Yeah, depends how it will be pulled off like being an arc than permanent (like Marvel marketing used to do).
In other subject, Marvel haven't done any good Cosmic event since Annihilation. I mean I imagine that they should be doing Marvel version of Interstellar warfare (ala Battlefleet Gothic) except Civil War didn't happen and all heroes participated in it.
And *sigh* why is Marvel trying not to go "Sam's dad is a Xandarian and pass on residue Nova Force" route? I feel that they have a thing against half-Alien having stable family life or an idea on alien decided to stay on Earth and raise family in general. I mean Starlord, Ultra-Girl, and Hulkling are either result of one night stand, no parents, and adopted respectively. I mean they are planning to bring back Richard Rider but at least try to at least have (very minor) hope for Xandar.
*Depend if you interpret that Thanos deliberately let himself loose after getting bored with blowing up universe multiple times.
Thrudd
2016-09-20, 12:14 PM
So I just found out about this (https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6449505.html#cutid1); She-Hulk coming back and apparently taking over the Hulk series in Bruce's absence. I guess I would say I feel a bit conflicted.
On one hand it's great that Jen probably will be getting some good focus here and honestly a more serious She-Hulk story does make sense given what she just went through... on the other hand I'm really not getting the impression that this would be nothing like the stories that made me such a fan of her in the first place. So what, she's going to go all ragey and smash stuff? Go back to her 'Savage' days a bit only minus the little white dress? I'll probably still read it but I can't say I'm looking forward to it. One of the things that made She-Hulk so interesting as a character was that she wasn't just The Hulk but female.
On that note, just what's going on with Cho these days? One of the big problems with comic events is that they often expect you to read several dozen different series to get the whole picture when you only might be interested in two or three. I actually really liked what they were doing with 'The Totally Awesome Hulk', it was the Hulk only lighter and funner as the new Hulk had all of the powers but (mostly) none of the rage and instead was just smart as well as powerful instead of having to be one or the other (a kind of... male She-Hulk if you will). Thing is while I've been fallowing it, unless I missed an issue or to there hasn't seemed to be anything new from his title since Civil War II can out, and considering that I'm pretty sure he got caught up in the CWII nonsense pretty directly I find that odd but I'm really not about to delve into any CWII books to find out what that all might have ended up.
On a separate subject, I don't suppose there are any X-Men fans that could catch me up on where the X-Men actually are these days? Or rather more specifically, who's all active these days? Last bit I read of the X-men was some of the All-New stuff to see how the whole time-displaced original team business went down, but I haven't really kept up with it might beyond, well I guess the point where it hit the Secret Wars (goddam event arcs...). Since then the only X-Man I really kept close tabs on has been X-23 (All-New All-Different Wolverine) and she is pretty exclusively solo without overlapping with other X-Men in her title (which is odd considering I'm pretty sure she appears plenty in other titles, comic book continuity is weird). Aside from her the only ones I really know much about have been others that went off and did their own non-X-men things like Kitty Pryde (Guardians of the Galaxy), Rogue (Uncanny Avengers), and Jubilee (Hellcat).
Cho actually hasn't been involved much in civil war 2, yet. The last two issue were labeled as civil war tie-ins, but the first one was about him and his sister, She-Hulk and Rick Jones taking care of a sick Bruce some time before the CW 2 events. The second one is about Carol bringing a bunch of super heroes and a division of SHIELD guys to his house to check on him following what happened to Bruce (nothing really happens, he proves he's still in control of the Hulk).
Amadeus is starting to experience the dark side of the Hulk, however. There's a violent monster inside his head which he was unaware of until recently - the Enchantress managed to bring it out of him briefly, and he had some episodes of blacking out while the Hulk was in charge.
There are three X-Men team titles running now. Extraordinary X-Men has Storm, Iceman, Jean Grey, Magik, Colossus, Night Crawler, Forge, Old Logan and some of the younger ones/students have had a prominent role in a couple issues: Glob Herman, Anole, No-Girl and Ernst.
Uncanny X-Men is Magneto, Sabretooth (still being good), Psylocke, M/Monet, Archangel
All-New X-Men is the teenaged originals Cyclops, Beast, Iceman, Angel (still cosmic powered), Laura/Wolverine, Idie and Evan/Genesis.
The main group of X-Men/mutants, led by Storm, are in a place called X-Haven. It is located in the Limbo dimension that Magik can access, where they are safe from the terrigen and M-pox spreading on earth. Magik uses her powers and spells to keep them in a protective bubble separate from the monsters and scary stuff in Limbo. She also teleports them back and forth to earth when they need to, or if they are bringing more mutants to safety.
The All-New X-Men are traveling around in a VW bus trying to experience the world and having adventures.
Uncanny X-Men are basically X-Force, led by Magneto. They're hunting threats to mutants and refusing to go hide in X-Haven.
The most recent story line from this summer, to coincide with the Apocalypse movie, had some time-travel shenanigans and a new "Age of Apocalypse" future world, as well as being sent into ancient Egypt and meeting apocalypse as a teenager.
Old Man Logan has his own series, which is pretty cool actually, as well as being with Storm's crew. I think this takes place prior to and partly concurrent with Extraordinary X-Men. And Extraordinary takes place before All-New Wolverine and Civil War.
I think All-New Wolverine is probably happening after All-New X-Men, since it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Wolverine has tie-ins with Civil War, All-New X-Men does not, at least not so far.
BiblioRook
2016-09-20, 02:01 PM
...Colossus, Night Crawler...
Woah, they are still around? I could have sworn they of all people were 'dead for real'. At least I'm pretty sure they weren't around last time I was looking into X-Men comics...
Thrudd
2016-09-20, 02:22 PM
Woah, they are still around? I could have sworn they of all people were 'dead for real'. At least I'm pretty sure they weren't around last time I was looking into X-Men comics...
Yep, not dead. Nightcrawler's return from the afterlife was told in the first arc of "Amazing X-Men" from a couple years ago, and he had his own solo title for 12 issues or so around that time, too. Colossus was sort of an unseen hermit for a bit, after A vs X, then he was in X-Force around 2013-2015 and was a regular in a couple arcs of Amazing X-Men, as well.
BiblioRook
2016-09-20, 05:04 PM
I really might have to look into those then, I do like me some fuzzy blue elf.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6455625.html#cutid1
Well, Marvel has somehow bad control on trying to be morally ambigious conflicts. Even Ms. marvel (other than ignoring about their slavery and eugenics) is guilty of this, but though towards more negligence and priority than outright tyrant.
They haven't learned from Civil War at all, worse, even the cosmic heroes are in there compared to their focus on more pressing matters.
I keep wondering how WH40k, how grimdark it is, managed to do registration (Codex Astartes) better. I mean if the closest thing was an almost skirmish between Imperial Fists and Ultramarine over implementation.
Quiver
2016-09-23, 01:05 PM
One point I find kind of interesting:
With Ulysses latest flashforward, we see Miles pointed as a hero-killer.
That means the Champions will consistent of Cyclops (who has the burden of future!Cyke's reputation), Miles (who has the prediction of killing another hero), Viv (who is the granddaughter of Ultron), and Amadeus Cho (who is a Hulk, and will be viewed suspiciously for that).
At least two-thirds of the Champions are going to be viewed by civillians in-universe as possible villains, for reasons that are unfair and unsubstantiated. That's neat, and I hope is an actual plot thing.
One point I find kind of interesting:
With Ulysses latest flashforward, we see Miles pointed as a hero-killer.
That means the Champions will consistent of Cyclops (who has the burden of future!Cyke's reputation), Miles (who has the prediction of killing another hero), Viv (who is the granddaughter of Ultron), and Amadeus Cho (who is a Hulk, and will be viewed suspiciously for that).
At least two-thirds of the Champions are going to be viewed by civillians in-universe as possible villains, for reasons that are unfair and unsubstantiated. That's neat, and I hope is an actual plot thing.
Well, I have headcanon that
It was Thanos influence all along with him getting himself deliberately captured to screw other heroes with mind control, aid from other beings, or some Tzeentch/Xanatos/Deceiver/Seldon plot. Maybe Captain Marvel's irrationality might be explained away with that excuse
Okay, am I going to rant about Civil War II? I think I am
So, it's better than Civil War I, but that's not saying much.
The general conflict is actually pretty interesting, IF Captain Marvel and Iron Man were sitting around Avengers tower debating it like reasonable human beings, rather than punching each other.
So, my biggest beef is how Captain Marvel and CO have been HANDLING the predictions. The first Prediction is Thanos attacking, which they use to defeat Thanos.
Then you get Tony Stark being irrationally angry "IF YOU HADN'T FOLLOWED THE PREDICTION, RHODEY MIGHT BE ALIVE!" vs the far more reasonable "IF WE HADN'T FOLLOWED THE PREDICTION, THANOS MAY HAVE DESTROYED THE WORLD!". Thanos is an Extreme Case. Knowing that Thanos was about to show up allowed them to gather an Army to fight him, because that's the proportionate response to "Thanos May Show Up".
The Problem, and the bit that pushes Carol Danvers from "Reasonable Person who wants to use this potentially powerful tool" to "Irrational Villain for Tony Stark to be reasonable at", is how the Predictions are used SINCE That point. They treat just about EVERY predicted incident like a Thanos-Incursion.
Step 1: Ulysses has a Vision that Character A is going to do Bad Thing!
Step 2: Captain Marvel shows up with a hit squad of Other Superheros/SHIELD Agents to stop Character A from doing Bad Thing.
Step 3: Character A Says "HEY! HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF DOING BAD THING! HOW DARE YOU BRING THIS SUPERPOWERED HIT SQUAD!"
Step 4: Problems Happen, because Captain Marvel showed up with a Hit Squad.
Look at the whole Hulk Incident. They think The Hulk might come to New York and kill the Superheroes. So, rather than saying "Huh, We better look into this, and work to prevent it", they say "Huh, we better BRING ALL THE SUPERHEROES TO THE HULK"
The Debate is "Should we use this Super Accurate Predictions vs Ignore Them Because Reasons", instead of "What's the SMART way to use these super-accurate predictions?" Because they need to have superheroes punching each other.
Okay, am I going to rant about Civil War II? I think I am
So, it's better than Civil War I, but that's not saying much.
PFFFT! Ha Ha Ha!
Better?
Hmmm, let's see.
Remember Annihilation Wave? Compared to the current debacle, which I wonder if Marvel is either run by Highlords of Terra or actively not wanting anyone other than "Steve", cosmic heroes didn't bother to go join in the fray and would have gladly stole/borrow/take the ship (like GoTG going to be stuck on Earth despite having space ships on Earth) rather than staying to do something made by editors. Even Starlord said about fighting with Thanos in that comic is insulting, which he and Richard Rider actually bothered to work together during that time. Granted that MCU wasn't created and two events were running, but at least they try to make a fine event without getting interfered with Civil War until at the end. Even the Inhumans do better as space entities rather than cosplaying as "oppressed minorities" with what is essentially press-ganged victims (seriously, consider what happened to Inferno's family, he would burn off Medusa hair) and white-washed history that would be like Tau but without horrible universe, more likable, or being benign. Not to mention Charles Soule' insistence that he is not trying to make them as such and defended their imperialism with Crystal as bride to the Blue Judge Dredd as "galactic peace" but his writing reek of it.
I mean at least in Civil War 1, we still have cosmic heroes trying to do something beneficial without murdering eachother (even Ronan work with Super Skrull) unlike Bendis' "All-human earth centric team", let alone trying to do Earth business.
Not to mention Bendis ignoring everything stated by other tie-in, like Luke Cage having said "no joining" but happened to go in for the kill in main event.
Again with my Wh40k comparison, Bendis is essentially Matt Ward of Marvel even if he didn't made Kitty Pryde as "Spiritual Liege" or having Luke Cage hopping around alternate dimension.
BiblioRook
2016-09-23, 05:44 PM
Yeah, things would probably be laughable diffrent if they just sat down and talked to the potential threats instead of leaping right to arresting them, but then you probably wouldn't have much of a comic...
Like I've been saying I've sorta been going out of my way trying to avoid CWII stuff but some of it is still unavoidable so I still see how it's handled a bit. Actually the two biggest cases that I've come across (All-New Wolverine and A-Force) they did actually make an attept to talk it out first, but unfortunately this was all after they got such a reputation for shooting first and asking questions later and the receiving party was really disinclined to listen...
Thrudd
2016-09-23, 08:55 PM
Yeah, things would probably be laughable diffrent if they just sat down and talked to the potential threats instead of leaping right to arresting them, but then you probably wouldn't have much of a comic...
Like I've been saying I've sorta been going out of my way trying to avoid CWII stuff but some of it is still unavoidable so I still see how it's handled a bit. Actually the two biggest cases that I've come across (All-New Wolverine and A-Force) they did actually make an attept to talk it out first, but unfortunately this was all after they got such a reputation for shooting first and asking questions later and the receiving party was really disinclined to listen...
Actually, they spent the better part of the first four issues of CW2 trying to talk it out, only in the current issue has it devolved into an all-out brawl with everybody involved. If anyone really had shot first and asked later, the escalation might be more understandable. As it is, I think the weakest part is explaining why they decided to stop talking, since everyone was being pretty reasonable up until now. They even had a second get together with everybody to discuss just how Ulysses' power works and how much they are willing to trust it. Carol got upset that it seemed like folks were starting to take Tony's side and flew off in a huff. The event that finally started it was Nightcrawler stealing a random civilian out of custody that was being held and questioned because of a future vision. Carol immediately knew Tony must be behind it and gathered all her supporters to go confront him, and he was ready for her with all his supporters. Up to that point, no hero-on-hero punches had really been thrown, only some light kidnapping and destruction of property (more a plot by Maximus and Inhuman dissenters than actual hero attacking hero), and a lot of pouting and yelling. The extremity of the combat that was happening in the last issue seemed way out of proportion to the act that precipitated it and to the overall disagreement.
https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6452917.html
Question: Is Bendis that daft on Earth having capable starships rather than getting Guardians of the Galaxy marooned?
https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6452917.html
Question: Is Bendis that daft on Earth having capable starships rather than getting Guardians of the Galaxy marooned?
The Tech Level of Marvel Earth is wildly in flux.
It seems that 99% of the world keeps pace with modern technology. But, they have Alpha Flight, with their Space station and space-worthy fighter jets, the Ultimates had an FTL capable craft, the X-Men go to space all the time. SHIELD has flying cards capable of breaking atmosphere. In the previous Captain Marvel run, Carol's ship was earth-built, and was portrayed as roughly the equal of other ships she ran into.
Also, at one point the Guardians met an autonomous Spacefaring SHIELD Helicarrier staffed entirely by LMDs that was flying around going toe-to-toe with Skrull ships, apparently Nick Fury just hid this project somewhere.
And that's not even getting into hitching a ride on the Rainbow Bridge, or asking a teleporter for help.
Yeah, the Guardians have basically nothing to complain about, as far as Space Travel is concerned. Carol literally commands a fleet of Canadian spaceships.
Personally, I'm just going to say that Rocket is overreacting.
The Glyphstone
2016-09-24, 07:42 AM
Nah, he's just genre savvy. He knows that fate and plot will conspire to maroon them on Earth for the duration of this event arc despite all their logical reasons to leave.
Oh, and question - is Steve Rodgers still loyal to Hydra?
Thrudd
2016-09-24, 09:53 AM
Nah, he's just genre savvy. He knows that fate and plot will conspire to maroon them on Earth for the duration of this event arc despite all their logical reasons to leave.
Oh, and question - is Steve Rogers still loyal to Hydra?
As far as we know, yes. His solo series is only four or five issues in, and nothing has changed there, so far. Don't know yet how his series will fit in with civil war, continuity wise. It's not so much that he's loyal to hydra as he believes in the principles of hydra (as he sees them). He's betraying and trying to overthrow red skull, to make hydra what he thinks it's supposed to be.
Devonix
2016-09-24, 05:30 PM
As far as we know, yes. His solo series is only four or five issues in, and nothing has changed there, so far. Don't know yet how his series will fit in with civil war, continuity wise. It's not so much that he's loyal to hydra as he believes in the principles of hydra (as he sees them). He's betraying and trying to overthrow red skull, to make hydra what he thinks it's supposed to be.
The Red Skull basically screwed up. He tried to divert Steve's loyalty to America, into Loyalty to Hydra. What he failed to realize is that Steve is loyal to an Idealized version of America and fights to bring that about, not caring about politics or other things in it. So Hydra Cap is Loyal to an Idealized version of Hydra, that isn't a corrupt evil organization and so will fight to bring that version into existence.
And yeah them being stuck on Earth will be flat out Stupid. I mean hell, Doesn't Sword have deligates from the Shi'ar Imperium on their council?
Thrudd
2016-09-24, 06:07 PM
The Red Skull basically screwed up. He tried to divert Steve's loyalty to America, into Loyalty to Hydra. What he failed to realize is that Steve is loyal to an Idealized version of America and fights to bring that about, not caring about politics or other things in it. So Hydra Cap is Loyal to an Idealized version of Hydra, that isn't a corrupt evil organization and so will fight to bring that version into existence.
And yeah them being stuck on Earth will be flat out Stupid. I mean hell, Doesn't Sword have deligates from the Shi'ar Imperium on their council?
Well, Steve's version of Hydra is still sort of evil. It's a superiority through strength and survival of the fittest sort of deal. He thinks the sort of people Red Skull is manipulating and riling up are filth that are unworthy of the cause.
SWORD doesn't exist anymore, it's Alpha Flight, now. But yeah, they have space ships and Carol or the Ultimates could definately get them passage back to wherever they want.
SWORD doesn't exist anymore, it's Alpha Flight, now. But yeah, they have space ships and Carol or the Ultimates could definately get them passage back to wherever they want.
Once they are done mopping each other up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vh_N8CpcL0
Just reminded myself on why accepting a regulation reluctantly before going on an idiotic attack on a fortress without preparation to be less idiotic than fighting against it for sake of political relevancy. Not to mention that the best Ultramarines could react to other chapter's refusal with an arrogant preaching than outright fighting.
Thrudd
2016-09-25, 08:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vh_N8CpcL0
Just reminded myself on why accepting a regulation reluctantly before going on an idiotic attack on a fortress without preparation to be less idiotic than fighting against it for sake of political relevancy. Not to mention that the best Ultramarines could react to other chapter's refusal with an arrogant preaching than outright fighting.
We get that you're into Warhammer. What does this have to do with Marvel? Maybe talk about this in a WH40k thread? Marvel has nothing at all to do with the Warhammer universe. It's not even a different comics universe and the comparisons are all pointless.
We get that you're into Warhammer. What does this have to do with Marvel? Maybe talk about this in a WH40k thread? Marvel has nothing at all to do with the Warhammer universe. It's not even a different comics universe and the comparisons are all pointless.
Well, I think I went too far when I start comparing Inhumans to Tau based on how both of them are being a "new thing" and widely hated along with caste system and eugenics except Tau are more benign and treated their "second class" decently unlike Inhumans, who try to act like X-Men with impressed victims and Marvel's not showing what happened to unfortunate ones or their horrible sides since they wanted to give them moral high grounds to unwitting fans.
*sigh* That and my actually first intention if Marvel heroes should have handbook like Codex Astartes right after Heroes vs. Heroes conflict and even drawing cosmic heroes in. Then thought about how heroes will fight eachother again to how to practice it, unlike WH40k where the best that Ultramarines can do is to be haughty to those who rejected it.
BiblioRook
2016-09-25, 11:06 PM
We get that you're into Warhammer. What does this have to do with Marvel? Maybe talk about this in a WH40k thread? Marvel has nothing at all to do with the Warhammer universe. It's not even a different comics universe and the comparisons are all pointless.
The two things just seem so wildly unrelated. I don't know, maybe for all I know there isa huge overlap among Warhamer and Marvel fans or if talking in Warhammer references was some established thing on these forums, but as far as I can tell nether are true (or very relevant even if they are) and for those that aren't Warhammer fans the comparison immediately falls apart and just becomes so much meaningless dribble. It's almost like if I were to try to talk about Civil War II exclusively by comparing it to the works of Chaucer.
Quiver
2016-09-25, 11:12 PM
The two things just seem so wildly unrelated. I don't know, maybe for all I know there isa huge overlap among Warhamer and Marvel fans or if talking in Warhammer references was some established thing on these forums, but as far as I can tell nether are true (or very relevant even if they are) and for those that aren't Warhammer fans the comparison immediately falls apart and just becomes so much meaningless dribble. It's almost like if I were to try to talk about Civil War II exclusively by comparing it to the works of Chaucer.
That's ridiculous.
With all the delays, a better comparision is the Arabian Nights. Except instead of intriguing the readers, our Scheherazade is pretty terrible, and we want the story to be over already.
BiblioRook
2016-09-25, 11:18 PM
With all the delays, a better comparision is the Arabian Nights. Except instead of intriguing the readers, our Scheherazade is pretty terrible, and we want the story to be over already.
But wasn't Scheherazade's whole point was that she was such a good storyteller that she was putting off her own death by telling tales? By your comparison she probably wouldn't have made it past night 1. Actually maybe that's not fair. With both Civil War 1 and 2 the concepts were never uninteresting but rather just the execution. With that in mind though I still don't see her lasting more then a week.
To be clear though it's not like I was going anywhere by picking Chaucer, it was just the first thing off the top of my head that sounded absurd.
Quiver
2016-09-25, 11:21 PM
But wasn't Scheherazade's whole point was that she was such a good storyteller that she was putting off her own death by telling tales? By your comparison she probably wouldn't have made it past night 1.
To be clear though it's not like I was going anywhere by picking Chaucer, it was just the first thing off the top of my head that sounded absurd.
Hence why I call her "pretty terrible" in our version. Scheherazade herself was pretty awesome...but I digress.
I'm just being flippant...and I couldn't think of aloud Chaucer comparision, beyond the terrifying thought of Civil War II going unfinished.
BiblioRook
2016-09-25, 11:29 PM
I'm just being flippant...and I couldn't think of aloud Chaucer comparision, beyond the terrifying thought of Civil War II going unfinished.
I was being flippant as well, just you seemed to put more thought in to my Chaucer thing then I did.
...Although, to continue with it for just a bit further, if Civil War II did end up going unfinished and Marvel just for whatever reason decided to give up on it and move on to something else, given how the comic industry acts these days would anyone actually be that surprised? Or care?
Well, if Marvel just decided to not make other side cartoonishly evil in their morally ambiguous tales. Seriously, Marvel can not comprehend that they can give Carol some point but noooo, let her go do idiotic conclusion despite having experience and not sort of person to be irrational.
Well, if Marvel just decided to not make other side cartoonishly evil in their morally ambiguous tales. Seriously, Marvel can not comprehend that they can give Carol some point but noooo, let her go do idiotic conclusion despite having experience and not sort of person to be irrational.
Eh, it's actually a pretty similar situation as to the one they had in Civil War I
The "Establishment" side actually has a reasonable point, if they went about things in a reasonable way. "We shouldn't just let every superhero run around doing whatever they want just because they're wearing a costume" and "Hey, we could use this ethically acquired information to SAVE LIVES!" Are both reasonable points, vs "No, If you put on a costume you should be allowed to vaporize orphanages provided there was a bank robber inside!" and "It's better to let that orphanage get vaporized, because Rhodey Died!"
So, There is a reasonable, nuanced debate that could be had in both these instances. But, Nuanced Debates don't involve punching, so it has to be all-or-nothing. Use the Visions vs Don't use The Visions.
and "Don't Use The Visions" is a ridiculous stance to take. So, they need to make The Establishment Unsympathetic, which means making them unreasonable.
So now, instead of two reasonable people "Use the visions less" vs "Use the Visions more", you have "Ignore the Visions" and "AUTHORITARIAN POLICE STATE! ULYSSES SAYS BOB WILL STEAL A CANDY BAR, SEND IN A SWAT TEAM, TWO WIZARDS, AND A HALF-DOZEN HULKS!"
Eh, it's actually a pretty similar situation as to the one they had in Civil War I
The "Establishment" side actually has a reasonable point, if they went about things in a reasonable way. "We shouldn't just let every superhero run around doing whatever they want just because they're wearing a costume" and "Hey, we could use this ethically acquired information to SAVE LIVES!" Are both reasonable points, vs "No, If you put on a costume you should be allowed to vaporize orphanages provided there was a bank robber inside!" and "It's better to let that orphanage get vaporized, because Rhodey Died!"
So, There is a reasonable, nuanced debate that could be had in both these instances. But, Nuanced Debates don't involve punching, so it has to be all-or-nothing. Use the Visions vs Don't use The Visions.
and "Don't Use The Visions" is a ridiculous stance to take. So, they need to make The Establishment Unsympathetic, which means making them unreasonable.
So now, instead of two reasonable people "Use the visions less" vs "Use the Visions more", you have "Ignore the Visions" and "AUTHORITARIAN POLICE STATE! ULYSSES SAYS BOB WILL STEAL A CANDY BAR, SEND IN A SWAT TEAM, TWO WIZARDS, AND A HALF-DOZEN HULKS!"
Marvel-relevant now, the best one being Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme where it made reasonable and fine story on how much limit to "benevolent totalitarianism" in regards to Superheroes and Rehab device.
BiblioRook
2016-09-27, 03:01 PM
... I'm still kind of surprised that people think Marvel is going to actuall outright kill all of the X-Men in Death of X?
I mean... I can see a few deaths. I rather suspect that Death of X is a placeholder title, and in the end, the story will be reveal as the Death of X, as in [X], the Character.
I joked before about how Xavier was already killed off and buried but today while perusing one of my comic book shops I found out.. that yeah, this mini series actually is about the death of Xavier... As in flashing back to when it happened and covering it in a great deal more depth I guess. I suppose my big question is 'Why?', or at the very least 'Why now?'. Is this supposed to be a lead in to bringing him back (Though again, that whole Red Skull business might make that tricky)? And if they are going to bring back Xavier is that a sign that the X-Men as a whole are going to be making a come-back? What a twist that would be, using a mini-series called 'The Death of X' to start bringing back the X-Men to their former glory...
Thrudd
2016-09-27, 06:38 PM
Eh, it's actually a pretty similar situation as to the one they had in Civil War I
The "Establishment" side actually has a reasonable point, if they went about things in a reasonable way. "We shouldn't just let every superhero run around doing whatever they want just because they're wearing a costume" and "Hey, we could use this ethically acquired information to SAVE LIVES!" Are both reasonable points, vs "No, If you put on a costume you should be allowed to vaporize orphanages provided there was a bank robber inside!" and "It's better to let that orphanage get vaporized, because Rhodey Died!"
So, There is a reasonable, nuanced debate that could be had in both these instances. But, Nuanced Debates don't involve punching, so it has to be all-or-nothing. Use the Visions vs Don't use The Visions.
and "Don't Use The Visions" is a ridiculous stance to take. So, they need to make The Establishment Unsympathetic, which means making them unreasonable.
So now, instead of two reasonable people "Use the visions less" vs "Use the Visions more", you have "Ignore the Visions" and "AUTHORITARIAN POLICE STATE! ULYSSES SAYS BOB WILL STEAL A CANDY BAR, SEND IN A SWAT TEAM, TWO WIZARDS, AND A HALF-DOZEN HULKS!"
That's a good summation. I am disappointed that things again boil down to people taking irrationally extreme positions on things. I feel like the company decides that they need to have an event where heroes are fighting heroes (obviously this time it was to coincide with the Civil War movie release), they assign a writer and tell them to think of a reason why the heroes will engage in all-out warfare with each other, yet again. Since generally these characters are mostly friends and teammates, there has to be something way out of the ordinary to make this happen. I don't know why Bendis, or anyone, couldn't think of anything better. It would be better if receiving accurate visions required doing something unethical, like keeping Ulysses in a tank or plugged into a machine against his will, or required hurting him in some way. Then, there would be a chance that someone could argue that it was worth it, to protect the world against the likes of Thanos and Celestials, though I don't think it would be Carol taking that stance. Alternatively, we should find out that everyone that has had close contact with Ulysses has contracted some sort of madness. It turns out all the visions were false, all the heroes were fighting illusions that nobody else could see. Or this is all taking place in a psychic dimension created when Ulysses first envisioned a possible future, and the heroes are actually psychic projections of themselves acting out of their base emotions. Rhodey isn't dead, he just woke up after he died in the psychic world, he finds the entire world unconscious lying wherever they happened to be, and he will save everyone else by tracking down Ulysses and waking him up out of his trance or sedating him, or something. Then the psychic world suddenly disappears, everyone wakes up where they have been lying for a couple hours. It turns out nothing that had a "civil war II" logo on it actually happened under continuity, and all the books pick up their stories where they had left off before they started tying in to the event.
Quiver
2016-09-27, 06:41 PM
I joked before about how Xavier was already killed off and buried but today while perusing one of my comic book shops I found out.. that yeah, this mini series actually is about the death of Xavier... As in flashing back to when it happened and covering it in a great deal more depth I guess. I suppose my big question is 'Why?', or at the very least 'Why now?'. Is this supposed to be a lead in to bringing him back (Though again, that whole Red Skull business might make that tricky)? And if they are going to bring back Xavier is that a sign that the X-Men as a whole are going to be making a come-back? What a twist that would be, using a mini-series called 'The Death of X' to start bringing back the X-Men to their former glory...
Can I claim a win?
But... I don't know. Is there any point in bringing Xavier back? What was the biggest role he played before his death?
I like tge fact that Cyclops killed him. Yes, there is a messiness to how it was exacted, but I really liked the tragedy of it. Xavier was, in effect, Scott's father. His death was a huge tragedy, and I kind of like that...
But then, I also love the idea of positioning Cyclops as 'the next Magneto' in terms of role; sympathetic antagonist with an understandable ethos, the guy who you look at and you can see why he thinks and act the way he does...
Thrudd
2016-09-27, 06:53 PM
I joked before about how Xavier was already killed off and buried but today while perusing one of my comic book shops I found out.. that yeah, this mini series actually is about the death of Xavier... As in flashing back to when it happened and covering it in a great deal more depth I guess. I suppose my big question is 'Why?', or at the very least 'Why now?'. Is this supposed to be a lead in to bringing him back (Though again, that whole Red Skull business might make that tricky)? And if they are going to bring back Xavier is that a sign that the X-Men as a whole are going to be making a come-back? What a twist that would be, using a mini-series called 'The Death of X' to start bringing back the X-Men to their former glory...
Yeah, Death of X has adult Cyclops on the promo art. He died off-page in the months prior to the beginning of the current story lines, apparently in some sort of conflict with Inhumans. So I'm thinking Death of X will tell us what happened there, in addition to flashing back to Xavier's death. Since Xavier's brain was taken by Red Skull, I absolutely expect him to return. Kobik the sentient Cosmic Cube could totally make that happen, if the right people were to tell her the right things. In AXIS, the main plot point occurred because the sorcerers were attempting to pull up Xavier's consciousness in place of Red Skull's. In Amazing X-Men, when Nightcrawler is still in Heaven, there is a strong hint that Xavier is there, too. We know it's possible to return from that afterlife. It could be any or a combination of these things, or even something totally not foreshadowed at all. Maybe Cyclops and Xavier come back together from the afterlife, somehow.
BiblioRook
2016-09-27, 07:27 PM
But... I don't know. Is there any point in bringing Xavier back? What was the biggest role he played before his death?
Most I can see coming out of Xavier returning is giving the X-Men something to rally behind and give them hope as (in the meta sense as well as the in-universe sense) he kind is the defacto symbol of what the X-Men are all about. If it does turn out to be about them bringing him back I kind of seeing it as something along the lines of throwing the X-Men fans a bone and moving towards burying this anti-mutant thing that they currently are going with. If not though? I'm really not sure, because like I already said, 'Why now?'
But then, I also love the idea of positioning Cyclops as 'the next Magneto' in terms of role; sympathetic antagonist with an understandable ethos, the guy who you look at and you can see why he thinks and act the way he does...
I'm amused by the idea of Cyclops going full Magneto too (though admittedly he came pretty close already), but I don't think I can see it happening with Tykelops still running around. Even moreso now that he's trying to start and lead his own new unaffiliated hero team of super-teens...
Yeah, Death of X has adult Cyclops on the promo art. He died off-page in the months prior to the beginning of the current story lines, apparently in some sort of conflict with Inhumans.
I honestly still find myself forgetting that Cyclops is dead. Just goes to show how far behind I am with keeping up with things.
Actually I'm pretty certain that adult Cyclops died during Secret Wars II at the (literal) hands of God-Doom. Take that as you may but considering all Doom currently has on his plate (what with taking over as Iron Man and all) it seems unlikely that they would try to drag him into the X-Men/Inhuman business...
Thrudd
2016-09-27, 08:39 PM
I honestly still find myself forgetting that Cyclops is dead. Just goes to show how far behind I am with keeping up with things.
Actually I'm pretty certain that adult Cyclops died during Secret Wars II at the (literal) hands of God-Doom. Take that as you may but considering all Doom currently has on his plate (what with taking over as Iron Man and all) it seems unlikely that they would try to drag him into the X-Men/Inhuman business...
Everything that happened in Battleworld has been undone. Almost everyone died there, and the Richards seemingly put everything back the way it was prior to the final incursions. Except, or course, that a lot of universes that were destroyed still don't exist, like the Squadron Supreme's worlds. And some things seem to have been "fixed" to be better than before, like Dr Doom's new maskless look and seemingly good attitude and un-inverted Tony Stark.
In the X-Men comics, Cyclops' death has been referred to but never described in detail as being something related to a mutant-inhuman conflict. It is clearly something everyone remembers from the current universe. It's unclear if anyone remembers Battleworld at all (maybe Doom, maybe Old Logan).
So read the new Nova comics,
Richard Rider is back...and not sure how he will react to recent issue and upcoming hero vs. hero comic.
I am imagining If the Emperor Has Text To Speech device Emperor voice for Rich.
"Seriously, the Avengers haven't learned a thing or two and decide to go all in."
or better resolution to Sam.
"Your dad is actually a Xandarian and he passed on his residue Nova Force on to his two half-alien kids, namely you and your sister."
BiblioRook
2016-09-29, 11:16 PM
New big preview book, but nothing that really felt as worth commenting on as last time. Mostly Christmas stuff infuriatingly, felt like half the book was nothing but 'Holiday Specials', Ugh! Honestly there really wasn't anything of note in the big 3-month preview book that I had to pay for that wasn't also in the free 1-month one...
Things I felt worth at least mentioning:
They are about to delve back into the whole Spider-man clone business. Be it new stuff along those lines are trying to resurrect an old story-line I have no idea.
Beta Ray Bill makes a return in The Unworthy Thor
The Great Lakes Avengers become an official Avengers team... due to a legal loop-hole.
Luke Cage is getting a rather... funky looking retro comic. By 'retro' I mean going back to the old tiara and silk shirt days. Weirdly cartoony.
...Dr. Strange and the Punisher are teaming up. (http://www.johnnyetc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/punisher-meets-dr-strange-magic-bullets.jpg)
If nothing else the Uncanny Avengers preview was worth it just for the straight-faced summery of
The former Avengers fight a rampaging zombie Hulk and ninjas in Japan.
Luke Cage is getting a rather... funky looking retro comic. By 'retro' I mean going back to the old tiara and silk shirt days. Weirdly cartoony.
Well, consider that Marvel haven't got the good idea to make decent cartoon for....a decade.
Once they finally watch other cartoon shows (mostly Perlmutter), they might get their heads off the hole.
Thrudd
2016-09-30, 12:04 PM
New big preview book, but nothing that really felt as worth commenting on as last time. Mostly Christmas stuff infuriatingly, felt like half the book was nothing but 'Holiday Specials', Ugh! Honestly there really wasn't anything of note in the big 3-month preview book that I had to pay for that wasn't also in the free 1-month one...
Things I felt worth at least mentioning:
They are about to delve back into the whole Spider-man clone business. Be it new stuff along those lines are trying to resurrect an old story-line I have no idea.
Beta Ray Bill makes a return in The Unworthy Thor
The Great Lakes Avengers become an official Avengers team... due to a legal loop-hole.
Luke Cage is getting a rather... funky looking retro comic. By 'retro' I mean going back to the old tiara and silk shirt days. Weirdly cartoony.
...Dr. Strange and the Punisher are teaming up. (http://www.johnnyetc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/punisher-meets-dr-strange-magic-bullets.jpg)
If nothing else the Uncanny Avengers preview was worth it just for the straight-faced summery of
I never buy the preview books. Usually the general news and company updates gives as much information about upcoming stuff.
The funky Cage comic is drawn and written by Gendy Tartakovsky, of Samurai Jack and Dexter's Laboratory and the Clone Wars shorts. I love his cartoons, but I'm going to skip it. Super stylized cartoony art usually bugs me in comics. It would be fun to see it actually animated, though. Also, I generally skip stuff that is out of continuity.
That's interesting they are bringing back the Strange/Punisher team-up, which was recently done (in the last couple years) in the Original Sin event. It makes sense with the state of things in Dr Strange's world (magic being basically gone except in the form of artifacts that have stored magical energy).
I'm most looking forward to Unworthy Thor. Mighty Thor has been great, and Thor: God of Thunder before it, and it's the same writer (Jason Aaron). Unworthy has a different artist than Mighty Thor, which is beautiful, but from what I've seen the new art looks good.
Amazing Spider-Man has been good so far, so I'll probably read the new Clone event (Dead No More), too, it's still the same writer.
Quiver
2016-10-03, 01:15 PM
What's the consensus on Spider-Gwen?
What's the consensus on Spider-Gwen?
I happen to Love the series, but that might just be because of my personal views on comic book continuity. I think Comics work best when each book gets to be in it's own little world, with no obligation to play to the whims of editorial, or acknowledge what other writers are doing. It can be really cool to have shared characters and a shared world, but that comes at the cost of either limiting what a writer can do, or making stories make no sense in the wider context. Writers are forced to drag their characters through Crossover events, or they can't use some other character because they're dead right now, Or the story has to deal with the fact that a character is having trouble fighting off some ordinary mobsters when they're good friends with any number of bulletproof demigods who would gladly take an afternoon to solve this problem.
So, from that perspective, Spider Gwen is amazing. In addition to being well-written, it's literally in it's own little world. The Writers can create alternate versions of other characters, so you get all the fun of saying "Hey! Look! It's Matt Murdock!" without having to deal with what the 616 Matt Murdock is up to (Not being Matt Murderdock is what).
So yeah, it's got a fun story, great art, and minimal crossover shenanigans.
That said, it can be kind of a downer, as far as the story goes. With the exception of The Bodega Bandit, Gwen is almost always the direct cause and target of the Villain's efforts. They're trying to kill her, arrest her, or recruit her. She spends most of the series just trying to survive the consequences of her actions.
It's very much a "Batman Made the Joker" type of story, and the authors seem to love making Gwen miserable. So, if you're hoping for some standard-issue feel good superheroics, it's not the place to go.
Thrudd
2016-10-03, 04:33 PM
What's the consensus on Spider-Gwen?
I like Spider-Gwen, too. It's a cool alternate universe, the art is interesting and it's good story telling. I'm not caught up on the recent issues, but I've read up to the Spider-Women crossover event.
BiblioRook
2016-10-03, 05:34 PM
I haven't really read much of her yet honestly but she's on my to-read list (along with Silk) and what I've seen of her so far I enjoyed.
Quiver
2016-10-05, 07:45 AM
Fair enough! Right now, eying Spider-Gwen and All-new Wolverine, so...
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6476182.html
Well, as CBR said, as I paraphase,
I guess Hydra are good guys in this now since they are actually defending victims from press gangs.
And consider that Inhumans were portrayed as not-too-good guys and brainwashed, even if Marvel's idiocy meant that they might be genuinely trying to make them good guys.
From now on, "Marvel's Grown-Up Teen Titans Go!" based on the horrible DC show about heroes not doing heroic things.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6476571.html#cutid1
Well, I am feeling that they actually addressed the issue of "Police Brutality bad but I am superhero that gets to bash criminals in the face and give "killing is bad" message. because double standards" in bad context (i.e.- Nick Spencer, Batman not killing joker even if he's already shown to be unredeemable).
Heck, DC used to make "extreme violence" as a point in many stories.
- 52 story where depowered Superman talked a gunman down.
- All-Star Superman talking a girl out of suicide.
- Batman going camping with three children.
Just wish that she would chew out the Inhumans for once, depends if the Royal Family will give retribution to her.
Thrudd
2016-10-06, 12:51 AM
I just read the latest Invincible Iron Man. I was sort of touched. In the main event, we don't get to see so much of this. I just want them to stop fighting. They want to stop fighting. Why don't they just stop fighting? I have a bad feeling Tony Stark may not survive this.
Also Jessica Jones. What the F- is going on. This is the first time we've seen her since before secret wars, and everything is F-ed up. It's hinting that this might be something to do with the restructuring of the multiverse. The Fantastic Four was even name-dropped. And Misty Knight is with Luke Cage now? She's sort of been with Sam in Captain America - so maybe this is a sign that this is actually a parallel universe, or for some reason when the put the universe back together they f-ed up her and Luke's relationship for some reason. Or this is just blatantly trying to align the comics closer to the Netflix shows.
I just read the latest Invincible Iron Man. I was sort of touched. In the main event, we don't get to see so much of this. I just want them to stop fighting. They want to stop fighting. Why don't they just stop fighting? I have a bad feeling Tony Stark may not survive this.
Also Jessica Jones. What the F- is going on. This is the first time we've seen her since before secret wars, and everything is F-ed up. It's hinting that this might be something to do with the restructuring of the multiverse. The Fantastic Four was even name-dropped. And Misty Knight is with Luke Cage now? She's sort of been with Sam in Captain America - so maybe this is a sign that this is actually a parallel universe, or for some reason when the put the universe back together they f-ed up her and Luke's relationship for some reason. Or this is just blatantly trying to align the comics closer to the Netflix shows.
I am viewing it in last one.
and being written by Bendis, who's basically Matt Ward (disrespecting the continuity, go-to for the company, and hated) of Marvel Universe in recent times.
Sorry, if I compare him to WH40k but two are basically similar.
BiblioRook
2016-10-06, 02:07 AM
So often it feels like different titles have completely different continuities with absolutely no mention as to how or why or even when. I haven't read anything really Jessica Jones related but while I'm somewhat behind I did read the new Power Man and Iron Fist comic and in that Luke and Jessica were still very much together (unless something drastic happened in between what I read to now).
Thrudd
2016-10-06, 02:49 PM
So often it feels like different titles have completely different continuities with absolutely no mention as to how or why or even when. I haven't read anything really Jessica Jones related but while I'm somewhat behind I did read the new Power Man and Iron Fist comic and in that Luke and Jessica were still very much together (unless something drastic happened in between what I read to now).
Ok, I just caught up on PM&IF, and nothing has happened to remotely hint that things could end up where we see them in JJ. So Bendis' new JJ series is definitely parallel universe or alternate timeline shenanigans and that is going to be an element of the plot. It's clear PM&IF is taking place in the main Marvel universe (don't know if it should be called "616" anymore), because the last two issues are tied into Civil War.
The thing I don't like about PM&IF is that it feels seriously lacking in action, and hardly shows the heroes' powers. I've barely seen any flaming fists at all. When I read something with Iron Fist, I am expecting kung fu action. The stuff they've been dealing with in this series either one of them alone should have easily taken care of, never mind both together. It's comics power-creep, but in reverse.
Also, that whole "street magic" thing from the first story arc was annoying to me, and the general "street" vibe that feels borderline inappropriate, including bringing back Black Mariah (who I think is a terrible stereotype blaxploitation character that should have stayed retired in the 70's).
Ranxerox
2016-10-07, 08:46 PM
I read the first issue of Champions and liked it. I didn't like the $4.99 price tag and hope that is an issue number 1 thing only. On the potential member page I recognized the new Iron Man, Moon Girl (sorry, BiblioRook) and young Cyclops, but who were the other two?
Speaking of Moon Girl, they are now advertising issue 13. This makes me happy because I know that it doesn't sell very well (it has never made it into Diamond's list of top 100 selling comic books) so I'm always worried about it being cancelled. However, since comic book story arcs and TBPs are based on 6 issue each, an issue 13 means that they plain on running the series at least up until issue 18. So that is cool. :smallcool:
BiblioRook
2016-10-07, 10:40 PM
No clue on who the new Falcon is, assuming that's who that is (never even heard that there was a new Falcon but I guess it would make sense that there would be since the old one is has been Captain America for so long by now) but the Wasp looking one is, well, the new Wasp. Janet's... step-daughter I think? I know she joined on with the Avengers but also in somewhat dubious circumstances (for her debut she thought it would be a good show of her skills by taking out the Vision. Also something about her entering and being in the country by less then legal means.) and don't know what she's currently up to if she's not with the team anymore (sadly trying to avoid CWII stuff leaves me out of the loop on keeping up to date on things).
As for Moon Girl joining the team I'm not even mad. If they are going to they to thrust her into the superhero world the Champions look like they are probably the best kind of team for her outside not being in one at all, that goes for Kamala Khan too for that matter as I never liked the idea of her being on a high-profile and high-stakes team like the Avengers in the first place as I didn't think it suited her, the Champions feel much more at her level. I still don't really see it happening, I mean the Hulk alone as a team member is already hugely unwieldy and you can't really get Moon Girl without also getting Devil Dinosaur and DD is several times more inconvenient to deal with then the Hulk as well as being harder to control to boot. In retrospect I guess it would be obvious that Moon Girl would at least to some level end up involved with the Champions at some point though considering that her only contact with the super-hero world so far has been Cho and Kamala respectfully. Seeing Riri there actually was a surprise for me as I would think that her joining a team, or even just potentially joining a team, would be a pretty big deal and be pretty noteworthy but this is the first I saw anything along those lines (unless they are waiting on using that chestnut later down the line).
Over-all thinking about it all after the fact you know what annoys me the most? Why don't they ever try recruiting Squirrel Girl for this sort of thing? This sort of team seems so much more appropriate for her then the New Avengers or USAvengers nonsense (I mean Squirrel Girl teaming up with Red Hulk?!). Even if they were going for a 'younger hero' vibe for the team people often forget just how young Squirrel Girl actually is, younger then Cho I'm willing to bet.
Thrudd
2016-10-08, 12:03 AM
I read the first issue of Champions and liked it. I didn't like the $4.99 price tag and hope that is an issue number 1 thing only. On the potential member page I recognized the new Iron Man, Moon Girl (sorry, BiblioRook) and young Cyclops, but who were the other two?
Speaking of Moon Girl, they are now advertising issue 13. This makes me happy because I know that it doesn't sell very well (it has never made it into Diamond's list of top 100 selling comic books) so I'm always worried about it being cancelled. However, since comic book story arcs and TBPs are based on 6 issue each, an issue 13 means that they plain on running the series at least up until issue 18. So that is cool. :smallcool:
I liked it, too. Those two were the new Wasp and the new Falcon. Falcon's origin is in Captain America: Sam Wilson. He's a 17 year old named Joaqin who got his DNA merged with Red Wing's in an mad scientist experiment, so he is literally part Falcon, and he has a sort of psychic link with Sam that he inherited from Red Wing.
The new Wasp is named Nadia, and she is supposedly Hank Pym's unknown long-lost genius daughter, by his first wife, who was raised in a Russian black widow/winter soldier-style assassin school and recently escaped after figuring out how to make Pym particles herself. The last issue of All-New Avengers was all about her and Janet hanging out. She hasn't really technically joined the Avengers, she basically showed up, helped them out with the Vision problem, then some bad guys came and tried to kidnap her and she and Janet beat them up while everyone else is off in space and now fighting Carol. She definitely seems like Hank's daughter, Jarvis and Janet both say they can see a resemblance, besides the fact she's an obsessive genius that wants to solve everything with science. Whether she has some psychic programming and was set loose by the Russians or someone else on purpose is always possible, of course.
There have been series that ended after 13 issues, or 19, it's not always multiples of six. Sometimes a TPB will only have five issues in it or will have seven in it. Usually fewer rather than more.
@ BiblioRook
Personally, I don't want to see Squirrel Girl anywhere else, unless she goes back to Great Lakes Avengers (which has always been a comedy series). I'm annoyed that she's in New Avengers. That series is being written goofy enough as it is, Maker/Ultimate Reed has been so reduced in menace it's ridiculous. He's almost a joke, rather than being probably the most dangerous villain in the whole world. I'd rather see the new Doom/Infamous Iron Man face off with him in a serious high-stakes story full of super science and time travel. New Avengers has so disappointed me. I had high hopes because I loved how Hickman had written the characters pre-Secret Wars and would have liked to see the AIM Avengers continue more like that.
Goofy comedy characters belong in a separate continuity, or at least have minimal contact with the characters and stories of the normal continuity. I hope to never see Gwenpool in a serious story, nor Howard the Duck. I am really hating that they are turning Rocket and Groot into comedy/cartoon characters, too, and the Patsy Walker series seems to be going that same direction. It just doesn't feel like it belongs in the same universe. I get that people like silly stuff sometimes. But I don't want silly in everything. The Champions will have enough comedy material with the banter between the kids, we don't need it to turn into full-on parody with Squirrel Girl.
BiblioRook
2016-10-10, 12:15 AM
@ BiblioRook
Personally, I don't want to see Squirrel Girl anywhere else, unless she goes back to Great Lakes Avengers (which has always been a comedy series). I'm annoyed that she's in New Avengers. That series is being written goofy enough as it is, Maker/Ultimate Reed has been so reduced in menace it's ridiculous. He's almost a joke, rather than being probably the most dangerous villain in the whole world. I'd rather see the new Doom/Infamous Iron Man face off with him in a serious high-stakes story full of super science and time travel. New Avengers has so disappointed me. I had high hopes because I loved how Hickman had written the characters pre-Secret Wars and would have liked to see the AIM Avengers continue more like that.
Goofy comedy characters belong in a separate continuity, or at least have minimal contact with the characters and stories of the normal continuity. I hope to never see Gwenpool in a serious story, nor Howard the Duck. I am really hating that they are turning Rocket and Groot into comedy/cartoon characters, too, and the Patsy Walker series seems to be going that same direction. It just doesn't feel like it belongs in the same universe. I get that people like silly stuff sometimes. But I don't want silly in everything. The Champions will have enough comedy material with the banter between the kids, we don't need it to turn into full-on parody with Squirrel Girl.
In a way I don't disagree. Despite the fact that I just suggested it Squirrel Girl is really horrible team material. Weird to say that considering how devoted and focused she is on unity and people working together, but as long as she remains 'Unbeatable' having her on a team ends up meaning two things: Ether they use her properly and the problem is resolved quickly which doesn't make for a good story or they don't use her at all in which they have to come up with an excuses as to why they are benching the heavy-hitter. As much as people tend to be split on the whole Squirrel Girl being unbeatable thing I think it's really one of my biggest fears involving Marvel that some writer will get the bright idea to **** around with her and ether try to knock her off her pedestal or use her as some sort of fodder to show off the strength of some pet Big Bad.
I have to admit, I can't really stand New Avengers. It's a solid example of the second option mentioned above, I still wonder why she's even there as she adds nothing to the series (speaking as someone who only read it in the first place because she was in it). More then that even if Squirrel Girl wasn't involved I would hate it just on what they did to AIM alone (they always were my favorite of the supervillian teams and now they just feel... neutered). Gods I'm not looking forward to USAvengers... That being said the reason I suggested Squirrel Girl for the Champions is because I think she can actually do for taken more seriously. Just... not too seriously. The Champians seemed 'small' enough that she would be able to work as a team player without also being a huge game-changing power player. Squirrel Girl is a rather touchy-feel character and she really comes off better with emotional battles then she does with supervillian brawls. In any case she still makes more sense then adding Moon Girl.
On other 'joke characters', Howard the Duck clearly doesn't belong in anything close to a super-hero team because, well, he's not a superhero. Take away the fact that he's a anthropomorphic duck and he's basically a regular person with admittedly rather ****ty luck and Patsy Walker is basically in the same vein as a more-or-less 'normal person' who just happens to live ingrained in the super-hero world, and really (to me at least) that's entirely what makes them enjoyable. Gwenpool however? She surprised me. I'm pretty sure she originated through the creators seeing people do mash-up cosplay which led them to think 'Sure, we could do that'. Her series ended up going a more 'serious' route then I expected though, where at first it just seemed to be about her taking advantage of being in a comic-book and that she doesn't have to worry about the consequences of her actions to being about the fact that even in a comic-book 'reality' ensures and that there are still consequences to what she does. Maybe I'm just easy to please (for certain things) but so far I'm been impressed on how its been handled.
I am super curious how an interaction between Deadpool and Gwenpool actually would go down though, I'm a bit surprised it hasn't happened already actually. But even Deadpool himself has gotten really 'serious' as of late as he's probably more then ever taking the role of a superhero seriously and accepting the fact that he has responsibilities. Part of being a father I guess.
Anyways as if you couldn't tell I'm a big advocate for levity which is why even though the likes of Deadpool is far from being a favorite of mine I greatly appreciatory him and his ilk for allowing stories to take an often needed step back in tone. If more serious stuff is what you are into that's not hard to find but series that you can have fun with and still take seriously seems rarer.
Thrudd
2016-10-10, 11:35 AM
Anyways as if you couldn't tell I'm a big advocate for levity which is why even though the likes of Deadpool is far from being a favorite of mine I greatly appreciatory him and his ilk for allowing stories to take an often needed step back in tone. If more serious stuff is what you are into that's not hard to find but series that you can have fun with and still take seriously seems rarer.
Oh, I get the levity, I like it, too. There's a reason Spiderman is so popular. He's fun and funny, but he's also in a universe you need to take seriously and has drama and action with real stakes. RDJ is so popular as Iron Man for the same reason. The last couple volumes of Iron Man, Gillen's and the current under Bendis, have been great for this reason. Lots of levity, but it also "gets real". The current Doctor Strange by Jason Aaron adds a lot of levity to the character that hasn't really been seen before. Captain Marvel's last two volumes were great for this, too. Guardians of the Galaxy in the post-Annihilation era were the same (Bendis' take on them has taken the levity a bit too far, IMO). Even Ant-Man, which has some pretty silly stuff and is hilarious, has real stakes and I can buy being a part of continuity. The levity is pretty pervasive throughout the books at the moment - there are very few dark-edgy-moody books like Punisher and Moon Knight.
Stuff like Squirrel Girl is too jokey for me, it rarely or never takes the universe seriously. I mean, she defeats Doom and Thanos and Galactus by herself. That cannot be in the same universe where half the heavy-weight heroes together are required to even have a chance at Thanos, and many of them inevitably end up dead or seriously injured. I could buy it if she would stick to small-scale D-listers and isolated one-offs, like the first volume of Ms. Marvel and Ant-Man. But as-is, I don't buy her as belonging to the Marvel universe-proper, and I feel their including her in Avengers is just an attempt to transfer her popularity to other titles and crossovers, and those books are worse for it.
On AIM, the way it was handled in Hickman's Avengers was great. We saw how Roberto and Sam developed a relationship with some AIM mooks, and gradually got popular with the rank-and-file scientists, who we learn are really all about the science. As long as they're funded and have cool stuff to work on, they were pretty much happy, they don't care what it's being used for. So it made sense when he was able to wrench control away from the Supreme Leader when he buys them out (and not without battles, of course).
Anyone who hasn't read Hickman's pre-Secret Wars run of Avengers and New Avengers really should, they are excellent, both in writing/characterization and in art.
Quiver
2016-10-11, 09:31 AM
So, I just read the Wolverine annual with Spider-Gwen.
Body swapping is one of my favourite "goofy comic book plots" so I enjoyed it. I've read the first trade of Wolverine, so I know that that light hearted stuff is a feature of her stories. I'm just ordering, is Spider-Gwen the same tonally? Darker?
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/preview-death-of-x-2/1100-156123/
Well, they addressed the reason behind Terrigen Gas.
Not sure if they will be transported to other universe (at least based on rumors and news on trying to make X-Men separate and make Inhumans as replacements) while Inhumans try to play themselves as oppressed minorities despite having privilege, restrictive caste system that was retconned now to make them "palatable", and press ganging anyone who didn't look like abomination taking in before "evil" people kidnap them.
I mean if they wanted to make Inhumans unique, why they haven't cover on revolts (upset victims), lawsuits from short end of mutations, and other icky stuffs implied from leting gas roam without oversight.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6497977.html#comments
*Sigh*
So Why is Marvel trying to make her evil and paint her as good guy this time? Must be their idiotic sense of morality or finally realizing their unable to understand the concept of "try to give fair points and not drag cosmic heroes into earthly affairs" (Say what you will on first Civil War but at least the Cosmic heroes try to do productive thing like ending Annihilus invasion).
BiblioRook
2016-10-19, 12:17 AM
Marvel really has nothing to gain by making fans dislike Carol (what with the incoming movie), it was clear from the beginning that they would try to turn that around hard at the earliest convenience. My guess they somehow badly misjudged how people would see her in the whole CWII conflict and didn't really mean to so clearly make her such a 'villain'. I mean look at the first Civil War, they thought that was going to end up less black and white too. Not that she really was 'evil' there, just kind of in over her head and overwhelmed which lead to overly drastic decisions (that or bad writing by people who thought they understood drama).
Also in fairness to Carol and dragging the Guardians of the Galaxy into the conflict, that's not really that absurd. It's not really a matter of 'this issue needs the intervention of cosmic level heroes' but rather Carol feeling she needed help (and/or an ace up her sleeve when feeling ganged up on) and called on the GotG because they are friends (considering she did travel with them for a while and probably can be considered a defacto member of the GotG).
Hell, they even play D&D (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a4/86/1b/a4861be3a16d2898ca9e226c4c5ced97.jpg) together.
Marvel really has nothing to gain by making fans dislike Carol (what with the incoming movie), it was clear from the beginning that they would try to turn that around hard at the earliest convenience. My guess they somehow badly misjudged how people would see her in the whole CWII conflict and didn't really mean to so clearly make her such a 'villain'. I mean look at the first Civil War, they thought that was going to end up less black and white too. Not that she really was 'evil' there, just kind of in over her head and overwhelmed which lead to overly drastic decisions (that or bad writing by people who thought they understood drama).
Also in fairness to Carol and dragging the Guardians of the Galaxy into the conflict, that's not really that absurd. It's not really a matter of 'this issue needs the intervention of cosmic level heroes' but rather Carol feeling she needed help (and/or an ace up her sleeve when feeling ganged up on) and called on the GotG because they are friends (considering she did travel with them for a while and probably can be considered a defacto member of the GotG).
Hell, they even play D&D (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a4/86/1b/a4861be3a16d2898ca9e226c4c5ced97.jpg) together.
It's because of the formula the tie-in books took.
Personally, I like my Linewide Crossovers like I like my coffee, far away from the comics I read. So, of all the Crossover Styles they could do, "The book tells it's own story while dealing with the event" works a lot better than "One story told across eight different books", but The Pattern that's shown up in every book is.
1) Our Heroes are Heroing. We bought this book because we like seeing this character do stuff.
2) Carol Danvers and 30 Shield Agents show up in the sky and say "Hey Hero, our Magic Man says you're going to do Bad Thing. Despite the countless times we've seen this exact approach be what causes heroes to do Bad Things, we're going to try it again and hope you just give up and sit in a box so that Bad Thing doesn't happen."
3) Our Hero says "CAROL DANVERS AND THIRTY SHIELD AGENTS! HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF DOING BAD THING! WE'VE FOUGHT TOGETHER, WE'VE SAVED THE WORLD TOGETHER, AND NOW YOU COME AND POINT GUNS AT ME BECAUSE YOUR MAGIC MAN SAID I MIGHT DO BAD THING!"
4) Carol Danvers and Thirty Shield Agents say "Calm down Hero, just get in the box"
5) Hero says "No, I don't want to get in the box", and a fight starts. During the course of the fight, Bad Thing happens.
6) Carol Danvers And the Thirty Shield Agents say "Huh, I guess it was us showing up and pointing guns at people that caused Bad Thing to happen. Sorry Hero, this is kind of our fault", and fly away.
People who like Carol Danvers are reading Captain Marvel, Ultimates, and A-Force. Meanwhile, people who like Hulk get to see her and thirty shield agents show up with guns. People who are reading Wolverine see her and thirty shield agents. People who like Luke Cage and Iron Fist, get to see Carol Danvers and Thirty Shield Agents.
So, for every "Carol Danvers is trying to save lives with the visions" we get ten splash pages of Carol Danvers And Thirty Shield Agents, pointing guns at our beloved heroes, saying they're going to do Bad Things.
It's like if they did a crossover where Superman showed up in everybody else's comic and kicked a dog.
Personally, I can't wait for the hardcover "Captain Marvel and the Thirty Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D" Collection, with a special step-by-step guide for aspiring writers who want to turn their readers against a beloved character.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6497622.html
Pretty Out of character for Ms. Marvel.
Who's a millenial but glad to stick along with former slave holder who claimed to be oppressed but seems well-off (I mean they don't seem oppressed and even commited extradition on not-North Korea, kidnapping victims of their gas after thwarting Hydra who would actually be a hero in context, and corporate theft). It's like they decided to make Teen Titans Go for adults.
Seriously, if they wanted to preserve the species, maybe breeding program or giant gas container from Spiderman or even space characters. Not to mention Inferno's family members, other who got short end of terrigenesis, and such not shown because Marvel's attempt o make them a thing.
I know they wanted to make MCU but I am sure that gullible movie fans and even writers with mental capability of a mouse know that they made a bad moral platform even with ignorance of their Tau-like caste system and Alpha-slaves, all of whom are retconned because...they are minorities.
Come to think of it, I shouldn't call them Tau-wannbes since those blue utilitarian aliens are actually do more benefits with or without context of horrible universe.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6497622.html
Pretty Out of character for Ms. Marvel.
Who's a millenial but glad to stick along with former slave holder who claimed to be oppressed but seems well-off (I mean they don't seem oppressed and even commited extradition on not-North Korea, kidnapping victims of their gas after thwarting Hydra who would actually be a hero in context, and corporate theft). It's like they decided to make Teen Titans Go for adults.
Seriously, if they wanted to preserve the species, maybe breeding program or giant gas container from Spiderman or even space characters. Not to mention Inferno's family members, other who got short end of terrigenesis, and such not shown because Marvel's attempt o make them a thing.
I know they wanted to make MCU but I am sure that gullible movie fans and even writers with mental capability of a mouse know that they made a bad moral platform even with ignorance of their Tau-like caste system and Alpha-slaves, all of whom are retconned because...they are minorities.
Come to think of it, I shouldn't call them Tau-wannbes since those blue utilitarian aliens are actually do more benefits with or without context of horrible universe.
At this point you're just going to have to accept that the whole slave-holder and caste-system thing with the Inhumans have been banished to the realm of Unmentioned Canon. They're not going to explicitly retcon it, because that would require acknowledging it. Much like the Thanos-Copter, The Helicarrier Full of LMDs flying around in Space, or The Sulk (The Hulk's Hulk, or some nonsense like that), or any number of things that are technically canon, but I forgot about because they're never mentioned because they don't fit the current status quo.
Right now, the Inhumans are Random People With Powers That Are Legally Not Mutants, they have a big city, and an angry queen with magic hair. That's all that Marvel wants them to be right now, so that's all that they are.
At this point you're just going to have to accept that the whole slave-holder and caste-system thing with the Inhumans have been banished to the realm of Unmentioned Canon. They're not going to explicitly retcon it, because that would require acknowledging it. Much like the Thanos-Copter, The Helicarrier Full of LMDs flying around in Space, or The Sulk (The Hulk's Hulk, or some nonsense like that), or any number of things that are technically canon, but I forgot about because they're never mentioned because they don't fit the current status quo.
Right now, the Inhumans are Random People With Powers That Are Legally Not Mutants, they have a big city, and an angry queen with magic hair. That's all that Marvel wants them to be right now, so that's all that they are.
Unfortunately, their conduct on replacement isn't to many people's liking. Let's just say that they are botched version of X-Men.
- I mean they are pretty much pressganging rather than saving them and not to mention lives that were ruined thanks to gas that would be more better had they use contained environment.
- And how Inferno, Kamala, and naivete idiots who decided to go in Nu-Humans are somehow loyal the Attila and not even questioning their ethics along with whole gas floating thingies (maybe they might have brainwash-inducing-fart-gas, just like the Tau). In realistic sense, Inferno would burned down entire city and Kamala would start a separate Enclave.
- The Royal Family try to be Professor X but pretty arrogant and codescending.
Not to mention how they're not doing heroic things, which if they did ended up being a trademark file off from X-Men or adult version of Teen Titans Go. I mean try to keep comics and movies separate! I know you are trying to attract movie fans but contexts and idiotic sense of implantation is making things worse, High Lords of Marvel.
edit: In minorites metaphor also, I mean it's like a WASP transformed into a black person or any marginalized minorities after city crashlanded and leak out magic gas.
BiblioRook
2016-10-19, 02:35 PM
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6497622.html
Pretty Out of character for Ms. Marvel.
To say nothing of Moon Girl (seriously, what is she even doing there).
Also I keep forgetting that Synapse is an Inhuman... or even really a character actually. She's such a forgettable part of the Uncanny Avengers (which so far actually has been quite an enjoyable read), no small part due to having to share the page with characters like Rogue, Deadpool, and Quicksilver (hmm, what do they have in common again?) and is basically there just as a token Inhuman so they have an excuse to lead into the whole 'Mutants vs Inhumans' plot...
I know this is a bit like beating a dead horse but if t209 can repeat himself over and over again I can get away with it occasionally too. The problem with this whole 'The X-Men are done, long live the Inhumans!' mindset Marvel seems to be going for is that while X-Men grew as a popular franchise over the years it really got ingrained into other aspects of the Marvel world. Prime example being the Avengers, just how many X-Men have been part of the Avengers at one point? A lot. Where by comparison Inhumans were basically just limited to themselves. Then suddenly Marvel wants to reverse that in what feels like overnight when it doesn't work that way. I mean for as long as this attempted Inhuman insurgence has been going on, off-hand outside royal family members like Medusa and Black Bolt and some that really stuck out on their own like Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl, very few strong characters come to mind when thinking about Inhumans (even with Synapse I had to look up her name first to make sure I remembered it right). In fact, previous examples included, I could probably count them all on both hands.
Also on the topic of Moon Girl... just what are they trying to do with her? I mean her thing is being super intelligent while mentally bonded with a dinosaur while still in what, elementary school? Middle School?. Somehow they took that as '...I should fight crime!'. Back in her early comic pre-transformation when her motivations were researching the Terrigen Mist and how to stop it, that felt like a really worthwhile pursuit that fit her character. But Post-transformation? It's as if she just said 'Well that's not my problem anymore, now I'm going to be a masked vigilante! (never mind that anyone and everyone knows exactly who I am despite the mask due to using my childhood nick-name as my moniker)'. But seriously, she needs to take a page out of the books of people like Beast and She-Hulk. The world is full of 'heroes' that can hit stuff really good but what it needs more of is people who can figure stuff out, and if Marvel is in any way reliable apparently Moon Girl is officially the smartest person in the Marvel world! But I guess being stuck behind a book or in a lab isn't as interesting to read about as being out in the streets fighting crime (though I might disagree).
To say nothing of Moon Girl (seriously, what is she even doing there).
Also I keep forgetting that Synapse is an Inhuman... or even really a character actually. She's such a forgettable part of the Uncanny Avengers (which so far actually has been quite an enjoyable read), no small part due to having to share the page with characters like Rogue, Deadpool, and Quicksilver (hmm, what do they have in common again?) and is basically there just as a token Inhuman so they have an excuse to lead into the whole 'Mutants vs Inhumans' plot...
I know this is a bit like beating a dead horse but if t209 can repeat himself over and over again I can get away with it occasionally too. The problem with this whole 'The X-Men are done, long live the Inhumans!' mindset Marvel seems to be going for is that while X-Men grew as a popular franchise over the years it really got ingrained into other aspects of the Marvel world. Prime example being the Avengers, just how many X-Men have been part of the Avengers at one point? A lot. Where by comparison Inhumans were basically just limited to themselves. Then suddenly Marvel wants to reverse that in what feels like overnight when it doesn't work that way. I mean for as long as this attempted Inhuman insurgence has been going on, off-hand outside royal family members like Medusa and Black Bolt and some that really stuck out on their own like Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl, very few strong characters come to mind when thinking about Inhumans (even with Synapse I had to look up her name first to make sure I remembered it right). In fact, previous examples included, I could probably count them all on both hands.
Ironically, this whole plotline has given Mutants something else to work with, the whole M-Pox Plot is letting Mutants do what Mutants do best, angst and worry about the future of mutantkind.
Meanwhile, all it's done is pop up a bunch of new Inhumans, some of whom are great characters, but not BECAUSE they're inhumans.
Ironically, this whole plotline has given Mutants something else to work with, the whole M-Pox Plot is letting Mutants do what Mutants do best, angst and worry about the future of mutantkind.
Meanwhile, all it's done is pop up a bunch of new Inhumans, some of whom are great characters, but not BECAUSE they're inhumans.
Agreed.
On Moon Girl, I think my ball-holding-nairvete-Tau pheromone theory for Terrigen Gas is correct.
Along with Marvel's attempt on trying to make them good guys with editorial mandate on not trying to stop the gas. Or even show those on short end of transformation.
Agreed.
On Moon Girl, I think my ball-holding-nairvete-Tau pheromone theory for Terrigen Gas is correct.
Along with Marvel's attempt on trying to make them good guys with editorial mandate on not trying to stop the gas. Or even show those on short end of transformation.
I havn't been reading any Inhuman-focused books, but isn't a giant cloud of gas pretty small-scale stuff as far as Marvel Universe Problem Solving goes? Have they addressed why Storm hasn't just sent it to the south pole or put it in a box or anything like that?
I havn't been reading any Inhuman-focused books, but isn't a giant cloud of gas pretty small-scale stuff as far as Marvel Universe Problem Solving goes? Have they addressed why Storm hasn't just sent it to the south pole or put it in a box or anything like that?
Nope.
Just being lectured by shoddy version of Professor X I mean Medusa who actually reminded about how Terrigen that roams is actually tampered with and decided to neglect because Marvel's idiotic sense of morals and claim they were oppressed despite having lived In privilege.
This is after Hydra heroically thwarting of Attila Press Gangs, as CBR says.
Nope.
Just being lectured by shoddy version of Professor X I mean Medusa who actually reminded about how Terrigen that roams is actually tampered with and decided to neglect because Marvel's idiotic sense of morals and claim they were oppressed despite having lived In privilege.
This is after Hydra heroically thwarting of Attila Press Gangs, as CBR says.
Do you want to know what's going to be funny?
In like 5 years, Fox cuts a deal with Marvel to give them "Mutants" back (Some sort of shared-custody arrangement, like they have with Sony over Spider-Man), probably once Hugh Jackman can't convincingly play an immortal anymore, and suddenly Marvel forgets about the Inhumans and goes back to Mutants.
BiblioRook
2016-10-19, 04:43 PM
I doubt it would take five years. A lot might end up depending on how the new Spider-man movie goes but if it does well that might encourage Fox to cut their loses on what Marvel properties they are desperately holding onto considering their, er, less then stellar record on Marvel related movies (outside of Deadpool). I don't know the numbers and honestly I haven't even seen most of them so it's possible for all I know they still financially did well, all I know is that public opinion of them seems to be really quite low.
Thrudd
2016-10-19, 06:47 PM
I havn't been reading any Inhuman-focused books, but isn't a giant cloud of gas pretty small-scale stuff as far as Marvel Universe Problem Solving goes? Have they addressed why Storm hasn't just sent it to the south pole or put it in a box or anything like that?
Yeah, that's the glaring plothole in the whole thing. But honestly, just about every problem on the Marvel earth could easily be solved if any couple characters got together and used their powers intelligently. There are too many omega level mutants and cosmic powered people around, no mundane problem should last long.
Storm's powers haven't been addressed in a long time. She seems to barely use powers, I can't recall a story or issue recently where she controlled the weather in a major way. I mean, whoever has her on their team should automatically win whatever they're doing, if they're on earth. So she has stopped using her powers in order for there to be tension and challenge for non-omega level heroes.
I don't think the Inhumans are replacing mutants in the Marvel U. We'll see what Death of X tells us about the situation, but my guess is the terrigen problem and M-Pox will be solved at some point.
Thrudd
2016-10-19, 06:51 PM
I doubt it would take five years. A lot might end up depending on how the new Spider-man movie goes but if it does well that might encourage Fox to cut their loses on what Marvel properties they are desperately holding onto considering their, er, less then stellar record on Marvel related movies (outside of Deadpool). I don't know the numbers and honestly I haven't even seen most of them so it's possible for all I know they still financially did well, all I know is that public opinion of them seems to be really quite low.
That maybe could happen with F4, but I doubt it with X-Men. Those movies are still making money, even if they aren't technically great.
That maybe could happen with F4, but I doubt it with X-Men. Those movies are still making money, even if they aren't technically great.
Well, unfortunately, there are rumors that they are to shift to other universe. Not to mention that Inhumans are shown as awful and called as heroes by the editors along with various gaping plot holes (like Inhumans being endangered despite being alive and wel and not being oppressed with majority of their problems being made by theml) or whitewash their imperialism (like Charles Soule's "Galactic Peace by Crystal" on taking control of blue fascist empire) with defenses that isn't anyway related in comic.
I mean they wrecked tons of Inhuman mythos, try to make Inhumans as "heroes" in marketing even with bad moral platform, and even try to defend their writings as "good things".
I mean they're the worst MCU tie-in in comics I've seen.
Edit: And Marvel's lack of creativity and thinking that readers are gullible MCU fans who are ignorant on non-MCU slave holding classists, who even if they are recently introduced will know the moral hypocrisy. Imagine like this, they try to include a racist expy to say to Inhumans minority-expies, he would sound legitimate on accusation on enslavement and many being duped into joining,and yet portrayed as lunatic without consideration of context. Seriously, what the heck is Marvel thinking to make things worse for them in comics with even the worst form of marketing to get most of their comics dropped. TRY LETTING THEM DO HEROIC THINGS ON SCREEN INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING THAT THEY ARE HEROES AND SHOVING OUT IN MANNER THAT VILLAINIZE THEM!
Do you want to know what's going to be funny?
In like 5 years, Fox cuts a deal with Marvel to give them "Mutants" back (Some sort of shared-custody arrangement, like they have with Sony over Spider-Man), probably once Hugh Jackman can't convincingly play an immortal anymore, and suddenly Marvel forgets about the Inhumans and goes back to Mutants.
Well, getting consequences they deserved would be lovely to see.
Lawsuits by shortend of Terrigenesis, sudden discovery of their slavery, Nu-Humans--especially Gue'vasas like Kamala and Moongirl--finally deserted them, slave revolts, magic-loyal-making-fart-gas in the Terrigen clouds, and short end of any crisis by avenging author who know about real Inhumans rather than Marvel's approved ones made out of their idiocy.
:smallamused: I like it.
BiblioRook
2016-10-20, 05:37 PM
Well it looks like A-Force is over with, which is a shame because I really liked that one. It's hard to see it as anything other then a casualty of Civil War II considering that almost half the main characters were heavily involved with the main CWII going ons (Carol, She-Hulk, Medusa) and sure enough the concluding story arc was a CWII one (even if it ended up having almost nothing to do with the main CWII story). It's not that it ended I think and more just that for such a fun comic that it ended up ending on such a downer...
Thrudd
2016-10-20, 05:48 PM
Sooo anyway...
They don't address the plot hole completely, but they do address powers that can affect the cloud. Crystal, Iso and Storm together diverted a terrigen cloud away from Madrid. Now at this point, knowing that people are dying because of the clouds , they should have gotten the brains together to find a way to contain and control the clouds. Will they do that? Of course not. But Hank's months spent in New Attilan studying terrigen I assume will produce something useful, otherwise why did the writers bother putting him there? That won't be addressed in Death of X, I think, since it is a flash back, but it could come up in Inhumans or X-Men following Civil War.
It's confirmed, Tony Stark is going to die by the end of Civil War. Or at least, people are going to think he's dead. And of course, he is still around in AI form with backups of his personality (that was an important plot element from Superior Iron Man). I think this will be a good series. And it looks like Ben Grimm is back on Earth and has joined SHIELD. I guess after Civil War, he decides not to go back with the Guardians. Unless he's already left them, I haven't been keeping up on GotG
I don't really fault Tony's level of perturbation with the Inhumans at this point. But I don't understand what his end game was. So what if they turned over Medusa to him? What was he going to do with her? Execute her? Turn her over to SHIELD or bring her to court to sue for damages, or what? Anyway, at least he and everyone else knows now that Maximus was behind it all and is probably planning more. This is why heroes just need to stop fighting each other, actually talk for a minute with the assumption that none of them have malicious intent, and figure out what is really going on. There's always a bad guy stirring up stuff somewhere and trying to manipulate people. Everyone should know this by now.
Sooo anyway...
They don't address the plot hole completely, but they do address powers that can affect the cloud. Crystal, Iso and Storm together diverted a terrigen cloud away from Madrid. Now at this point, knowing that people are dying because of the clouds , they should have gotten the brains together to find a way to contain and control the clouds. Will they do that? Of course not. But Hank's months spent in New Attilan studying terrigen I assume will produce something useful, otherwise why did the writers bother putting him there? That won't be addressed in Death of X, I think, since it is a flash back, but it could come up in Inhumans or X-Men following Civil War.
Well, here's additional theory,
Also maybe learning about loyalty-making-gas in there since Moongirl isn't particularly benign on deciding not to stop the gas, whose enhanced intellect would be enough to know that people will end up as something out of H.R. Giger unlike mutants they were replacing (And again as reminder, it's like trying to make a story of turning homosexual thanks to magic gas rather than puberty).
Maybe an earthquake occur during a meeting and flatten reasonable people (or neutral parties, and Kamala and Moongirl's parents because they need reason for being OOC) before everyone going nuts over god(s) declining sacred hospitality of their truce and murder eachother out of paranoia.
Thrudd
2016-10-20, 07:41 PM
Well, here's additional theory,
So he's "I am Ultron under Hank's skin" version, right? Maybe he'll instigate a war between Inhumans and Mutants in guise of help. Maybe they'll learn about loyalty-making-gas in there since Moongirl isn't particularly benign on deciding not to stop the gas, whose enhanced intellect would be enough to know that people will end up as something out of H.R. Giger unlike mutants they were replacing (And again as reminder, it's like trying to make a story of turning homosexual thanks to magic gas rather than puberty).
Maybe cause an earthquake during a meeting and flatten reasonable people (or neutral parties) before everyone going nuts over god(s) declining sacred hospitality of their truce and murder eachother out of paranoia.
No: Hank McCoy, Beast. He's been at New Attilan working with the Inhumans. At some point, that will hopefully have some narrative payoff.
Not sure what the rest of that post means. I'm talking about things that actually happen in the comics and my speculations about what the writers might do based on current evidence.
Also, the current Inhuman royal family were the ones that ended the creation and enslavement of alpha primitives. That story happened in the 1970's. To expect the writers to treat that like a prominent issue is silly. It isn't an issue anymore, Marvel didn't just ignore it or retcon it, they wrote a story about how it was addressed by the characters and their community.
It's not like I'm the biggest Inhumans fan, I don't really care about them too much, but the stuff you keep saying just makes no sense. I mean, I'm not sure how you could be reading the same comics I am and come away with the most of the stuff you're talking about. Do you read them in a language other than English? Maybe there are things lost or added when they translate them.
No: Hank McCoy, Beast. He's been at New Attilan working with the Inhumans. At some point, that will hopefully have some narrative payoff.
Not sure what the rest of that post means. I'm talking about things that actually happen in the comics and my speculations about what the writers might do based on current evidence.
Also, the current Inhuman royal family were the ones that ended the creation and enslavement of alpha primitives. That story happened in the 1970's. To expect the writers to treat that like a prominent issue is silly. It isn't an issue anymore, Marvel didn't just ignore it or retcon it, they wrote a story about how it was addressed by the characters and their community.
It's not like I'm the biggest Inhumans fan, I don't really care about them too much, but the stuff you keep saying just makes no sense. I mean, I'm not sure how you could be reading the same comics I am and come away with the most of the stuff you're talking about. Do you read them in a language other than English? Maybe there are things lost or added when they translate them.
Well, to be fair.
- Just a habit of fit whenever I hear Inhumans thanks to Scans Daily comments and wish to know answers along with temper.
- Bad way to introduce Inhumans for MCU and stoke conflict rather than making them likable without whitewashing. This is not mentioning why they haven't shown Terrigenesis' short end yet. Even people at Agents of Shield are bugged at "Inhuman birthright".
- Another Inhuman "heroism"--namely pointing out their "benign" nature of impressment that Marvel keep telling us that it's generosity--which shows Marvel ineptitude.
Wait a minute, this is staring to sound familiar.
How many of you used to get angry Marvel getting rid of Avengers for X-Men in Onslaught?
At least all of them get to act like hero on stopping Magneto-Professor fusion rather than hero vs. Impetuous MCU-privileged brats.
Aotrs Commander
2016-10-28, 01:14 PM
X-Men '92
They... they brought in Death's Head! DEATH'S HEAD!
And not even shrunk down or anything, full Transformers -sized like when he was in Transformers and everything!
This is... Glorious!
First they Gen X, the they No More Vampires, now they bring in Death's Head...
This is the BEST!
Marvel, keep this up and you'll gain yourself a FRACK ton of kudos back.
Edit: X-Brood! Bahahahahahaha! This is the best!
X-Men '92
They... they brought in Death's Head! DEATH'S HEAD!
And not even shrunk down or anything, full Transformers -sized like when he was in Transformers and everything!
This is... Glorious!
First they Gen X, the they No More Vampires, now they bring in Death's Head...
This is the BEST!
Marvel, keep this up and you'll gain yourself a FRACK ton of kudos back.
Edit: X-Brood! Bahahahahahaha! This is the best!
https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6511032.html
Does it include Shi'ar not getting what they want?
I maybe of different opinion but I definitely want Shi'ar on Silverscreen.
Or Gladiator finally getting punished for working with crazy emperor.
Like Lilandra finally getting to be empress without murdered by her crazy brother or Cyclops' other crazy brother.
Aotrs Commander
2016-10-28, 08:16 PM
https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6511032.html
Does it include Shi'ar not getting what they want?
It definitely does.
BiblioRook
2016-10-31, 09:31 PM
...God help me, I think I collect Tsum Tsums now. I literally just spent the day going around looking for a Doctor Strange one (which was irritably challenging to find). I originally only meant to pick up one or two for the novelty but now I have like over a dozen of the things...
That being said, the things even have a comic series about them. That in itself isn't really that surprising in that Marvel never really was shy about making comics to tie in toy lines and other products. I've been reading it so far just out of sheer curiosity but can't say what I would think of it just yet. Definitely a series for kids (to which I guess, no duh).
BiblioRook
2016-11-03, 01:09 AM
So something that came to mind, for all the 'screw the X-Men and Fantastic Four' going on in the comic world due to the petty issue of film rights... I wonder why Deadpool seems to be exempt? I mean all the while with most of the Fantastic Four just simply up and disappearing off the face of the earth and the X-men literally being killed off Deadpool seems to be thriving, he's up to what? At least five concurrent series going on at the moment? Sure I guess it can be argued that 'because he's popular', but as if the X-Men or the Fantastic Four weren't? TO be clear, I have nothing against Deadpool, more this is yet just another bullet on why I can't wrap my head around this stupid film-rights feud Marvel seems to have going on...
This extends into merchandising as well. Seriously not a single Tsum Tsum of any of the X-Men or FF. I'm being denied Doctor Doom as a Tsum Tsum because of this silly squabble!
Ceiling_Squid
2016-11-03, 10:46 AM
The question one should be asking is this, though:
Are the Deadpool film rights seperate from the X-Men rights?
If not, there's your answer. Deadpool is popular, so Marvel wouldn't dare tank him in particular. But if they can get away with trying to coerce the entire license back into their hands, it's a moot point.
Unless things have been renegotiated at some point, I'm pretty sure Deadpool is part-and-parcel with the same agreement that gave the rights to make films with all the other mutant characters.
BiblioRook
2016-11-03, 03:18 PM
Unless things have been renegotiated at some point, I'm pretty sure Deadpool is part-and-parcel with the same agreement that gave the rights to make films with all the other mutant characters.
Deadpool's film rights was a weird grey area if I remember correctly. Despite not being a mutant himself he was still nonetheless heavily associated with the X-Men to be lumped in with them. I think, from a legal standpoint if nothing else, the deciding factor tends to be where the character originated, like as in where the character first appeared, which in Deadpool's case was an X-Man affiliated series (The New Mutants).
Actually in a weird frustrating way Deadpool alone might make it all the harder for Marvel to get the X-Men rights back (or at the very least shared like with Sony and Spider-Man). Like mentioned before so far most of the X-Men movies have been somewhat successful but poorly received and in a rose-tinted outlook that might still have opened up some grounds for negotiation because Fox would still have something to gain from sharing the rights. Deadpool however was successful both financially and by general opinion, but by sharing the X-Men rights they also give away their exclusive access to what they may see to be their new golden goose.
Deadpool's film rights was a weird grey area if I remember correctly. Despite not being a mutant himself he was still nonetheless heavily associated with the X-Men to be lumped in with them. I think, from a legal standpoint if nothing else, the deciding factor tends to be where the character originated, like as in where the character first appeared, which in Deadpool's case was an X-Man affiliated series (The New Mutants).
Actually in a weird frustrating way Deadpool alone might make it all the harder for Marvel to get the X-Men rights back (or at the very least shared like with Sony and Spider-Man). Like mentioned before so far most of the X-Men movies have been somewhat successful but poorly received and in a rose-tinted outlook that might still have opened up some grounds for negotiation because Fox would still have something to gain from sharing the rights. Deadpool however was successful both financially and by general opinion, but by sharing the X-Men rights they also give away their exclusive access to what they may see to be their new golden goose.
IIRC, Comic Book Film Rights are a weird, confusing thing, because Marvel didn't sell off rights to individual characters, so much as different micro-franchises, and the question of which characters are associated with which franchises becomes confusing.
Like, for example, X-23 didn't exist when the first X-Men movie came out. She wasn't created until three years later, but, since she's part of the X-Men Brand in a vaguely defined but legally significant way, they own the rights to her character.
This is what led to the weirdness with two versions of Quicksilver, because Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are mutants, and were originally in the X-Men, but have spent more time as Avengers than anything else, and somewhere it was decided that this meant that Fox had them in X-Men, and Disney had them as Avengers.
Similarly, Skrulls originated in Fantastic Four, so Sony technically controls them, even though their current comic identities as Evil Space Empire has more to do with Guardians of the Galaxy than the Fantastic Four.
It certainly seems like somewhere in some lawyer's office there's a big chart of which characters and properties belong to which Franchises.
Deadpool may run off and do his own thing, but he originated in the X-Men, and he's been more closely associated with them than anybody else. His Avenger-associations are relatively recent, and mostly due to the character's massive popularity.
also, personally, I'm not convinced that they're trying to "write out" the X-Men. The Fantastic Four I can see, but I don't think the Fantastic Four have aged well. They get huge prominence as one of the original Marvel books, but beyond the absolute basics, they just don't sit that highly in the public consciousness. The X-Men have a "Thing": Feared and Hated Mutants as stand in for whatever minority group you want. Existential Crisis, Angst, and self-hatred.
The Fantastic Four...don't really have that. Their core powerset doesn't make them particularly interesting. They have the whole super-science thing to handle cosmic-level threats, but that just ends up as a Macguffin Machine. Iron Man's Engineer Schtick works better than "Basically Magic Super-Science" as a celebration of The Power of Human Inginuity. Big cosmic-level threats can either be fought better by Doctor Strange, or punched into submission by the bigger guns (Thor, Captain Marvel, ect).
As far as I can tell, nobody had a good idea what to do with them, but as the Elder Statesmen of Marvel Comics, they demanded recognition.
But, the X-Men are a different story. Trying to do away with them in-comic in order to win back the Movie rights doesn't work for a few reasons.
1) The movies don't need new material to work with, and the X-Men are a big enough name that it would take decades for the brand to lose power, no matter what happens in the comics.
2) If the plan works, and they get the movie rights back from Fox, what happens? Scarlet Witch wishes a bunch more Mutants into existence? If they have destroyed the brand enough that Fox no longer wants it, then they can't exactly pick it up again.
Ceiling_Squid
2016-11-03, 04:21 PM
I dunno, there is one thing the classic Fantastic Four have, an angle that doesn't get pushed really as often as it once was.
They are Marvel's premier "Super-Family", to an extent. I mean, there's a reason that The Incredibles takes some inspiration from F4.
But aside from that, there's not a lot to set them apart anymore as an indispensible part of the Marvel Universe, at least to the broader public who vaguely remembers them.
Thrudd
2016-11-03, 11:46 PM
I dunno, there is one thing the classic Fantastic Four have, an angle that doesn't get pushed really as often as it once was.
They are Marvel's premier "Super-Family", to an extent. I mean, there's a reason that The Incredibles takes some inspiration from F4.
But aside from that, there's not a lot to set them apart anymore as an indispensible part of the Marvel Universe, at least to the broader public who vaguely remembers them.
If they want to rejuvenate the F4 movies, they should take a page from Hulk and Spiderman and skip the origin story. Do the Future Foundation, introduce them as the super family, Reed and Sue already married with kids. Movies could be about finding the other kids, moloids, dragonman, etc.
Complete opposite tone from the last debacle. Fun and colorful super science, solving problems with science and heart.
I think that is a niche that can still fit in the comics, as well. Jonathan Hickman and Matt Fraction's runs on F4 and FF from not all that long ago were actually really good and movies could take a page from them.
BiblioRook
2016-11-04, 01:09 AM
If they want to rejuvenate the F4 movies, they should take a page from Hulk and Spiderman and skip the origin story. Do the Future Foundation, introduce them as the super family, Reed and Sue already married with kids. Movies could be about finding the other kids, moloids, dragonman, etc.
Complete opposite tone from the last debacle. Fun and colorful super science, solving problems with science and heart.
I think that is a niche that can still fit in the comics, as well. Jonathan Hickman and Matt Fraction's runs on F4 and FF from not all that long ago were actually really good and movies could take a page from them.
Similarly I feel like the Future Foundation route would have gone as a better route to keep them relevant in the comics too. In a way, building off how the individual characters are treated nowadays it would really make sense to break them up. Have Grimm go join GotG/S.H.E.I.L.D. and Johnny go off on whatever reckless adventures he feels inclined to go on and have Reed and Sue stay back and run a school for gifted youngsters (kind of like Xavier's, only in this case 'gifted youngsters' in the more traditional sense), only have it be more about the kids and have Reed and Sue take something of a back-seat on it. Heck, their kids (they must be young adults by now, right?) could likewise branch off and do their own thing for a while. It feels like a part of the failing of the Fantastic Four was getting too hung-up on the whole 'family' aspect to them and thinking that that's all they were allowed to do with them...
I guess part of this is me still being bitter about Moon Girl and her whole 'Dur, I'm super smart but instead of using it to be productive I'm going to live out my super-hero fantasy with my pet dinosaur instead.' Seems someplace like the Future Foundation would have been a great place for her to really come into her own. Really, what the hell is the smartest individual in the Marvel Universe doing in a pubic school in the first place? That's always been something of a glaring plot hole in the Moon Girl series...
On that note, I'm still super fuzzy on just how the Richards family up and disappeared in the first place. Not only that but now I'm kind of curious just what happened to the Future Foundation as a whole. Did they just dissolve it when Reed and them went missing? Did all those people go missing with them?
Kitten Champion
2016-11-04, 03:36 AM
If they want to rejuvenate the F4 movies, they should take a page from Hulk and Spiderman and skip the origin story. Do the Future Foundation, introduce them as the super family, Reed and Sue already married with kids. Movies could be about finding the other kids, moloids, dragonman, etc.
Complete opposite tone from the last debacle. Fun and colorful super science, solving problems with science and heart.
I think that is a niche that can still fit in the comics, as well. Jonathan Hickman and Matt Fraction's runs on F4 and FF from not all that long ago were actually really good and movies could take a page from them.
The problem with that - at least as Fox is concerned - is the origin story allowed them to make a hundred minute movie as cheaply as possible. They could waste three quarters of the feature's length on the largely irrelevant crap of their origin and then breeze through the whole post-superpowers stuff as quickly as possible... and even that wasn't exactly impressive. Which, really, the Story movies were exactly the same on, irrelevant crap fills the majority of those movies as well, it's just more television sitcom rather than gloomy faux-Nolan-esque twaddle.
The problem with that - at least as Fox is concerned - is the origin story allowed them to make a hundred minute movie as cheaply as possible. They could waste three quarters of the feature's length on the largely irrelevant crap of their origin and then breeze through the whole post-superpowers stuff as quickly as possible... and even that wasn't exactly impressive. Which, really, the Story movies were exactly the same on, irrelevant crap fills the majority of those movies as well, it's just more television sitcom rather than gloomy faux-Nolan-esque twaddle.
Also, the Future Foundation kind of requires a ton of other worldbuilding that movie audiences are not going to be familiar with.
The advantage of an Origin Story is that it starts the movie in the world we know, and we journey into the new world with the characters.
Now, with Spiderman, Batman, ect, people already know the Origin, so showing it over and over again is stupid.
But, while people know the Fantastic Four's origin, the Future Foundation requires a bunch of OTHER weird stuff that people don't automatically know about.
That said, I think they could have skipped the Origin, and just gone straight into some quality superheroics.
Or just done the Doctor Doom Movie that we really want them to do.
Ranxerox
2016-11-04, 10:01 AM
I guess part of this is me still being bitter about Moon Girl and her whole 'Dur, I'm super smart but instead of using it to be productive I'm going to live out my super-hero fantasy with my pet dinosaur instead.' Seems someplace like the Future Foundation would have been a great place for her to really come into her own. Really, what the hell is the smartest individual in the Marvel Universe doing in a pubic school in the first place? That's always been something of a glaring plot hole in the Moon Girl series...
Moon Girl is like 9 years old. She is pretty mature for a nine year old, thinking more like a tween or a young teenager, but that is still not all that mature, So it is not surprising that she would want to play superhero, particularly living in a world where that is a thing.
As for the Future Foundation turning her down, when we first learned that in issue one I figured that meant that she was really smart but not quite FF smart. Now that we know just how bright she is, I strongly suspect that every time she sent out an application to the Foundation or MIT or wherever, her parent sent a letter asking them to turn her down. Just because she at a ripe old age of 9 feels ready to venture out on her own, doesn't mean her parents feel ready to let her go.
Speaking of Moon Girl, weren't the 2 first two pages of last issue absolutely perfect? First her spot on reaction to Kid Kree's declaration and then her discourse on how Spock and not Kirk should have been captain. Wonderful.
Thrudd
2016-11-04, 10:46 AM
Really,
On that note, I'm still super fuzzy on just how the Richards family up and disappeared in the first place. Not only that but now I'm kind of curious just what happened to the Future Foundation as a whole. Did they just dissolve it when Reed and them went missing? Did all those people go missing with them?
You need to read Hickman's Secret Wars. They're all together, somewhere outside time and space, recreating the multiverse with Molecule Man.
And no, Franklin and Valeria are not grown up, yet. They've only aged a few years since their introduction, if that, thanks to weird Marvel universe sliding timeline stuff.
Moon Girl would be a perfect fit for the FF, the next generation of super geniuses should have someone like Reed mentoring them.
I don't think it's impossible that the FF might return with a new series at some point. I just wish Hickman would come back to write it. Though Ewing is doing pretty good with the cosmic stuff in Ultimates at the moment.
Thrudd
2016-11-04, 10:51 AM
Also, the Future Foundation kind of requires a ton of other worldbuilding that movie audiences are not going to be familiar with.
The advantage of an Origin Story is that it starts the movie in the world we know, and we journey into the new world with the characters.
Now, with Spiderman, Batman, ect, people already know the Origin, so showing it over and over again is stupid.
But, while people know the Fantastic Four's origin, the Future Foundation requires a bunch of OTHER weird stuff that people don't automatically know about.
That said, I think they could have skipped the Origin, and just gone straight into some quality superheroics.
Or just done the Doctor Doom Movie that we really want them to do.
Yes, we need the Doom movie, too. But I was envisioning more of an origin movie for the FF. Start with the Richards family, and the movie is about how they decide to form the FF. It would be a whole franchise as each movie could focus on building part of that world and introduce a couple more characters- one movie about moloids, one about dragon man, one for Bentley 23, etc.
Well, the original idea for fantastic four movie was great. It has Fantasticar, Negative Zone being more colorful, Herbie, and ohhh...Annihilus (imagine if Abbadon the Despoiler is a bug and only managed to launch one almost-successful Crusade with the rest being botched before it begins).
Sadly, Fox can't seem to understand beyond Doom vs. stories.
And Marvel haven't done another cosmic event that actually has Marvel Civil War happen at the same time since then.
Well, also throw in Power Pack since Alex Powers is also stuck there too. I mean they can do without Franklin Richards, which he only appear for a brief time.
BiblioRook
2016-11-04, 04:36 PM
As for the Future Foundation turning her down, when we first learned that in issue one I figured that meant that she was really smart but not quite FF smart. Now that we know just how bright she is, I strongly suspect that every time she sent out an application to the Foundation or MIT or wherever, her parent sent a letter asking them to turn her down. Just because she at a ripe old age of 9 feels ready to venture out on her own, doesn't mean her parents feel ready to let her go.
This is a troubling thought, all the more because I can believe it. Her parents not wanting her to move on to higher education to quickly I mean. On the surface it may not seem too bad, her parents being worried about her going off on her own or separation anxiety or something, but the more I think about it it's actually a rather horrible example of bad parenting hidden behind good intentions. I mean, if anything is clear from the Moon Girl series is that she is miserable in public school. I don't mean that in a typical 'Ugh, school is such a drag' way, no she is in outright agony being there. And that it's her parent's fault for holding her back? It's almost something that would qualify as abuse (There is physical abuse and emotional abuse, is 'intellectual abuse' a thing?). Not even looking at it from a super-hero world prospective just using real-world examples there would be hundreds of opportunities for someone like Moon Girl, but going off in-universe examples even if her parents don't want her to to some super elite school for geniuses what about something smaller like Kamala Khan's high school? Still a 'normal pubic high school', but certain events have really made it branch out and embrace the fact that it's a high school in a world of super-heroes and practically worked that into it's curriculum. Plus it has the added bonus (not that they would know this though) of Ms. Marvel being there to keep a close eye on her.
Well, I am wondering if Marvel has brain of a walnut since Inhumans are evil in the book (possibly mind control pheromone) while keep expounding that they are good guys. In a better way, Kamala and Moongirl would turn the guns on their Attilan for impressments, corporate thefts, and taking over a country of not-North Korea. Call me Javert but at least he would made more sense when compared to them.
Yet, it's still called good guy and try to be mutants in uncreative fashion (plus claiming endangerment despite showing no sign of endangerment) with non-existent moral platform.
Yes I do read them but not sure why there are fans still try to show a hopeless cause.
edit: Maybe they would release large scale superhero war except not sure if there are superhero team specializing in destroying other superheroes just to keep them in line. Except they would be good guys when going toe to toe with Inhumans.
BiblioRook
2016-11-14, 01:38 AM
t209 is going to have a ball with this, but I've been thinking about the differences between mutants and inhumans. Mutants are human, mutated or (depending on who you ask) 'evolved' humans but still typically 100% human. Inhumans however are, when you come down to it, alien-human hybrids. In hindsight looking at these two you would think the alien hybrids would be the one people would be more concerned or fearful over.
Unrelated I've also been thinking about the 'Women of Power' Marvel likes to highlight every so often. I actually rather like this concept quite a bit as it often highlights some of my favorite characters. A-Force basically was this brought together as a series but actually I rarely see A-Force itself mentioned when 'Women of Power' is brought up. I mean, I point this out but it honestly not that hard to see why. Of the A-Force team Captain Marvel, She-Hulk (and more She-Hulk stuff will always be a plus for me), and Medusa almost always make the list but the other half of the team (Singularity, Nico, and Dazzler) are almost never pointed out. Sure I understand the latter half of the team are more obscure and less known/popular (Singularity literally not existing outside the comic as of yet) but still. I can't help feel this is a bit of a part of the whole anti-X-Men thing, which very much includes Dazzler (I'm actually really unclear where Nico falls with that, the Runaways did involve mutants but it sort of involved a little bit of everything).
Things that I collect that did a 'Women of Power' thing include Keychain blind-bags (http://www.monogramdirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/8/68265_marvel_series_7_2_1.jpg) (She-Hulk, Wasp, Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen, Captain Marvel, Squirrel Girl, Angela, Medusa, and Ms. Marvel), Plush Tsum Tsums (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ixjTQhYajYw/V4wy1C2O5sI/AAAAAAAAx-A/rk26gQkxwuUxGYeuVV9MIM3YyYPh76XOACLcB/s1600/Marvel%2B%25E2%2580%259CWomen%2Bof%2BPower%25E2%25 80%259D%2BTsum%2BTsum%2BPlush%2BSeries%2Bby%2BDisn ey%2B-%2BCaptain%2BMarvel%252C%2BWasp%252C%2BShe-Hulk%252C%2BSpider-Woman%2B%2526%2BElektra.jpg) (Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, and Elektra), and toy Tsum Tsums (http://thumbs2.picclick.com/d/w1600/pict/152274644753_/Marvel-Tsum-Tsum-Series-2-Women-Of.jpg) (Female Thor, Wasp, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, She-Hulk, Medusa, Gamora, Black Widow, and Spider-Gwen). Now why did I bother actually writing all that out? Well that goes into my other thought. For some reason it just struck me as weird that, aside from She-Hulk (again, still more She-Hulk stuff please) Wasp was the only other person on all three lists.Why is that weird? Well she's certainly iconic as far as female Marvel characters go, the weird part was when I realized just how little she was being used as far as the comics go. She recently appeared in the Avengers to help transition in her... replacement. Before that though? I actually can't even really recall the last time Wasp was really featured very much and I just kind of wonder why. I mean during her appearance introducing the All-New All-Different Wasp they make a point to show (or 'tell' rather) that she has been keeping busy as a successful super high-end I don't know, security consultant or something. I guess they needed something worthy of her status in the Marvel world but not interesting enough to make comics for. I wonder though, given how like I said she's pretty iconic as far as female Marvel characters go, she wasn't used for A-Force? I mean to my knowledge she really wasn't doing something else during that time, both in Secret Wars where the A-Force originated as well as the fallow-up series that took place in the 'real' world.
Thrudd
2016-11-14, 06:33 PM
t209 is going to have a ball with this, but I've been thinking about the differences between mutants and inhumans. Mutants are human, mutated or (depending on who you ask) 'evolved' humans but still typically 100% human. Inhumans however are, when you come down to it, alien-human hybrids. In hindsight looking at these two you would think the alien hybrids would be the one people would be more concerned or fearful over.
Unrelated I've also been thinking about the 'Women of Power' Marvel likes to highlight every so often. I actually rather like this concept quite a bit as it often highlights some of my favorite characters. A-Force basically was this brought together as a series but actually I rarely see A-Force itself mentioned when 'Women of Power' is brought up. I mean, I point this out but it honestly not that hard to see why. Of the A-Force team Captain Marvel, She-Hulk (and more She-Hulk stuff will always be a plus for me), and Medusa almost always make the list but the other half of the team (Singularity, Nico, and Dazzler) are almost never pointed out. Sure I understand the latter half of the team are more obscure and less known/popular (Singularity literally not existing outside the comic as of yet) but still. I can't help feel this is a bit of a part of the whole anti-X-Men thing, which very much includes Dazzler (I'm actually really unclear where Nico falls with that, the Runaways did involve mutants but it sort of involved a little bit of everything).
Things that I collect that did a 'Women of Power' thing include Keychain blind-bags (http://www.monogramdirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/8/68265_marvel_series_7_2_1.jpg) (She-Hulk, Wasp, Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen, Captain Marvel, Squirrel Girl, Angela, Medusa, and Ms. Marvel), Plush Tsum Tsums (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ixjTQhYajYw/V4wy1C2O5sI/AAAAAAAAx-A/rk26gQkxwuUxGYeuVV9MIM3YyYPh76XOACLcB/s1600/Marvel%2B%25E2%2580%259CWomen%2Bof%2BPower%25E2%25 80%259D%2BTsum%2BTsum%2BPlush%2BSeries%2Bby%2BDisn ey%2B-%2BCaptain%2BMarvel%252C%2BWasp%252C%2BShe-Hulk%252C%2BSpider-Woman%2B%2526%2BElektra.jpg) (Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, and Elektra), and toy Tsum Tsums (http://thumbs2.picclick.com/d/w1600/pict/152274644753_/Marvel-Tsum-Tsum-Series-2-Women-Of.jpg) (Female Thor, Wasp, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, She-Hulk, Medusa, Gamora, Black Widow, and Spider-Gwen). Now why did I bother actually writing all that out? Well that goes into my other thought. For some reason it just struck me as weird that, aside from She-Hulk (again, still more She-Hulk stuff please) Wasp was the only other person on all three lists.Why is that weird? Well she's certainly iconic as far as female Marvel characters go, the weird part was when I realized just how little she was being used as far as the comics go. She recently appeared in the Avengers to help transition in her... replacement. Before that though? I actually can't even really recall the last time Wasp was really featured very much and I just kind of wonder why. I mean during her appearance introducing the All-New All-Different Wasp they make a point to show (or 'tell' rather) that she has been keeping busy as a successful super high-end I don't know, security consultant or something. I guess they needed something worthy of her status in the Marvel world but not interesting enough to make comics for. I wonder though, given how like I said she's pretty iconic as far as female Marvel characters go, she wasn't used for A-Force? I mean to my knowledge she really wasn't doing something else during that time, both in Secret Wars where the A-Force originated as well as the fallow-up series that took place in the 'real' world.
Yeah. Last time I saw Janet in a major role was the first Uncanny Avengers series from 2013-14. She had a relationship with Havoc for a bit, before the whole AXIS thing screwed everything around. After that they both seemed to have disappeared, until her brief recent appearance.
BiblioRook
2016-11-15, 10:53 PM
Just for the fun of it, where would Gwenpool fall legally? I mean she's basically a mix of Spider-Gwen/Gwen Stacy and Deadpool yet technically is unrelated to ether. Actually now that I think about it she's not really well connected to much of anything. Her first appearance was in Howard the Duck but didn't have much to do with him after that story was over and had a run-in with Miles Moralas but aside from that the only major characters she deals with probably would be M.O.D.O.K and... Batroc the Leaper.
Thrudd
2016-11-16, 10:27 AM
Just for the fun of it, where would Gwenpool fall legally? I mean she's basically a mix of Spider-Gwen/Gwen Stacy and Deadpool yet technically is unrelated to ether. Actually now that I think about it she's not really well connected to much of anything. Her first appearance was in Howard the Duck but didn't have much to do with him after that story was over and had a run-in with Miles Moralas but aside from that the only major characters she deals with probably would be M.O.D.O.K and... Batroc the Leaper.
I would guess she's owned by disney/marvel. As a new character that isn't a mutant, I don't think Fox would have any grounds to claim her.
BiblioRook
2016-11-19, 07:59 PM
So Miss America (no relation to Captain America) is getting her own comic. (http://www.refinery29.com/2016/11/130354/exclusive-marvel-america-chavez-series?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=post&unique_id=entry_130354) I'm actually somewhat surprised by this, but not in that they are doing it but rather that it took so long for them to do. Feels like for all of Marvel's aggressive push for diversity they haven't really made much of any effort to cover gay characters and I always wondered about that. I guess I can see that there would be a lot more controversy in suddenly making Captain America or Thor gay then just merely making them black or female but I always was under the assumption that the point of this diversity push was that Marvel didn't care about said push making waves. America Chavez is arguably one of Marvel's highest profile gay character that I can think of (or at least highest profile lesbian, Hulkling and Wiccan are probably more up there then her) but it would be hard to say that she isn't a bit obscure.
As much as I talk about A-Force I always felt that America got kind of gypped there. Sure I suppose she went on and had her own adventures in Battleworld on some wall or something but as much as I was avoiding Battleworld stuff I have to admit that I never got around to reading it (though I was tempted because I do like her character and I heard it wasn't that bad). But I guess it would have been hard for her to be caught up in the A-Force fallow up with being involved in Ultamates.
BiblioRook
2016-11-26, 11:44 PM
*sigh*
So Venom is a villain again, or at least an anti-hero with empathis on the 'anti'. On a new host (some random petty criminal guy) with absolutely no explanation how it got separated from Flash Thomson. Also apparently the new guy can (presumably) control the symbiote right from the get-go. Because of course he can.
One of the things that annoys me the most about this is Flash only just got reconnected with Mania and I was really looking forward to where they would go with that. Nowhere apparently because we get two issues with her and the series ends and then it's on to this new guy...
Thrudd
2016-11-27, 11:12 AM
*sigh*
So Venom is a villain again, or at least an anti-hero with empathis on the 'anti'. On a new host (some random petty criminal guy) with absolutely no explanation how it got separated from Flash Thomson. Also apparently the new guy can (presumably) control the symbiote right from the get-go. Because of course he can.
One of the things that annoys me the most about this is Flash only just got reconnected with Mania and I was really looking forward to where they would go with that. Nowhere apparently because we get two issues with her and the series ends and then it's on to this new guy...
I was wondering about that when I saw the new Venom title. I haven't caught up on Venom Space Knight, only read the first couple issues. I thought it might be a different symbiote or an alternate universe like "Jessica Jones". That is weird, I assume there will be some explanation.
BiblioRook
2016-11-27, 06:16 PM
I was a huge fan of Flash as Venom almost from the beginning (it's hard not to think of him as Agent Venom, even when he was in space) but this whole thing smacks of 'Well we couldn't think of anything else to do with him, time for a change I guess'.
Definitely not an alternative universe though, when the symbiote bonded to the new guy he got a flash of Venom's memories which definitely included Agent Venom. (He then promptly murdered his best friend and a hobo both just for witnessing the symbiote, can you say 'immediately detestable'?)
Thrudd
2016-11-27, 07:52 PM
I was a huge fan of Flash as Venom almost from the beginning (it's hard not to think of him as Agent Venom, even when he was in space) but this whole thing smacks of 'Well we couldn't think of anything else to do with him, time for a change I guess'.
Definitely not an alternative universe though, when the symbiote bonded to the new guy he got a flash of Venom's memories which definitely included Agent Venom. (He then promptly murdered his best friend and a hobo both just for witnessing the symbiote, can you say 'immediately detestable'?)
Yeah, I read it. I know the author says we'll see what's up with Flash later on, but I can't imagine how they're rationalizing this. I mean, Venom was "cured" of its insanity and repaired on the symbiote home planet. So why the hell would it leave Flash and choose this guy? Unless Flash is dead, and the symbiote got seriously f-ed up in the process.
BiblioRook
2016-11-27, 09:18 PM
People often complain when they take a villain and turn them good but I feel like the opposite is much worst. I mean unless the hero was already kind of a jerk leading up to turning to villainy it just seems like a **** move without proper explanation, and like you said Venom has been 'cured' for a while so it's not really even just the case of Venom the person being a hero but specifically the symbiote itself has been a good guy for some time now too. As much as if frustrates me I guess I can kinda see the 'Flash getting killed off' angle considering the state of the suit in the comic and a lack of any better explanation but I really hope that's not the case as as I mentioned already I rather like Flash (not to mention likewise really hating this new guy).
Just wanted to ask,
is there any equivalent of Deathwatch (WH40k's multi-chapter team, more on other teams part and not on literal xenophobe part) in Marvel universe other than Uncanny Avengers?
And
And my Marvel's mandate, Cyclops is now a villain because...he actually made things better better with removing the gas and Inhumans claim to be endangered even if they are fine and dandy and even kidnapping victims.
It would be sarcasm but it's real even Hydra look down right. More so if their new gas has mind control fart gas.
BiblioRook
2016-12-22, 04:45 PM
It's little wonder that people like Captain Marvel end up alcoholic as it seems Carol even started therapy over what looks like some serious mental trauma from the whole Civil War II fiasco... but on the plus side it's nice to see them returning to the down-to-earth Captain Marvel a bit after painting her as this almighty alien-god being that rules authoritatively from space. Also the return of Chewie, that's always a plus, I was wondering what happened to him.
On the Venom front, still no explanation on how we got to this point and while I'm still hating the new series and the new host I am very much liking Venom-the-symbiote (mini-Venom is surprisingly adorable). It's rather bizarre that Venom-the-symbiote is now the moral one and the host is the amoral one, but I guess that's the whole intent of this new series...
But ugh, the whole thing about 'I may just be a random common street thug but I used to be an Army Ranger and was train extensively to resist psychic attack which is how I can manage to flawlessly control this alien symbiote' thing is just so cringeworthy, at this point I'm almost tempted to keep reading just to see it get to the point where Venom-the-symbiote is able to get back up to full strength and ditch this guy (as this new moral Venom likely wouldn't resort to killing him, no matter how big of a douche he is) in the most inconvenient way possible...
As a side thing my local comic shop is promoting the new Venom series as 'Look who finally has his own series!!!" in a way that I find super irritating. Um, Venom has had hos own series almost continuously for the last 12 years...
Thrudd
2016-12-22, 08:30 PM
It's little wonder that people like Captain Marvel end up alcoholic as it seems Carol even started therapy over what looks like some serious mental trauma from the whole Civil War II fiasco... but on the plus side it's nice to see them returning to the down-to-earth Captain Marvel a bit after painting her as this almighty alien-god being that rules authoritatively from space. Also the return of Chewie, that's always a plus, I was wondering what happened to him.
On the Venom front, still no explanation on how we got to this point and while I'm still hating the new series and the new host I am very much liking Venom-the-symbiote (mini-Venom is surprisingly adorable). It's rather bizarre that Venom-the-symbiote is now the moral one and the host is the amoral one, but I guess that's the whole intent of this new series...
But ugh, the whole thing about 'I may just be a random common street thug but I used to be an Army Ranger and was train extensively to resist psychic attack which is how I can manage to flawlessly control this alien symbiote' thing is just so cringeworthy, at this point I'm almost tempted to keep reading just to see it get to the point where Venom-the-symbiote is able to get back up to full strength and ditch this guy (as this new moral Venom likely wouldn't resort to killing him, no matter how big of a douche he is) in the most inconvenient way possible...
As a side thing my local comic shop is promoting the new Venom series as 'Look who finally has his own series!!!" in a way that I find super irritating. Um, Venom has had hos own series almost continuously for the last 12 years...
Yeah, that's weird. Did they miss "Venom: Space Knight" for the last year? Or did that not count because he wasn't a dark and gritty villain/antihero?
Anyway, I've got to catch up on comics over winter break. I've only had time to read a couple issues of anything over the last couple months.
BiblioRook
2016-12-23, 01:23 AM
I kind of took it, assuming it's not an oversight, more proclaiming something along the lines of the return of 'classic Venom'. But to me that's still plenty stupid outside of just romanticizing the past or assuming that the 'original' is always the best. For me Venom as a hero (even pre-'cleansing') was always leagues better then him as a villain. What was he ever as a villain? An unstable alien monster? Big whoop, you can still take your pick of those if that's what you really are into (if nothing else Carnage is still around somewhere I guess). I just don't see anything to be gained from making Venom villainous again. Reading this second issue felt like someone just really liked The Hood (another character I never liked) and felt like trying to recreate him.
I guess it's entirely possible that this new Venom will eventually go into anti-hero territory rather then villain territory. In fact, considering just how pure and moral Venom-the-symbiote now is I'm pretty convinced that this eventually will be an inevitability. Problem is, and I know I kind of harped on this quite a bit already, this new host guy ( I don't even know his name, something 'Lee'?) is just so goddamn unlikable. There's a reason I like Flash so much, he was a generally interesting character, he felt fully fleshed out with characters and motivations and personality. This new guy feels like he has none of that. What do we even know about him? He was in the Army once, is motivated purely by money and power, and is willing to outright murder his best friend if offered an opportunity to further his goals.
Edit:It just occurs to me that in a way this new Venom is nearly the opposite of the whole All-New All-Different mentality. Well not in the sense that I guess Lee is Asian I guess, but very much so in where they take a classic established hero and mix it up a bit in new and innovative ways. Here they take a character that was already changed up in an innovative way and... revert him back to the boring old classic version. Actually even more then that, a big part of the All-New All-Different was filling major roles with lesser-represented demographics, and what was Flash? He was disabled! I mean seriously, how many superheros out there can you say are legitimately severely disabled? "Oh", I might hear the writers of this new Venom say, "but Lee is disabled too!" He's missing two fingers on his non-dominate hand, how dare you suggest that that is even remotely the same as missing both legs! That's actually pretty insulting! Actually now that I think about it Lee's missing fingers are basically the linchpin that his entire backstory depends on as it's basically blamed for his inability to get a job (how?) which was what made him resort to a life of crime... Goddamn this series makes me angry the more I think about it.
Also if they really wanted to take Venom in a All-New All-Different direction... what about Mania? She, quite literally, already is basically a female Venom and the process switching over to her would have been ridiculously smooth (if not also entirely logical). Say Venom-the-symbiote gets separated from Flash and desperately needs a new host, so maybe it seeks out someone that already has an affinity for the symbiote? Not only that but Mania has a hugely unstable violent streak so if they really wanted to go back to the monstrous classic Venom they would be fine working in that angle. Now that I thought of it watching a relationship between the now wiser and moral Venom symbiote and the more hot-headed young Andrea Benton could have been really entertaining, nothing at all like this stupid '"I don't want to be evil again!" "Well to bad because I said so, so shut up."' relationship that Lee has with Venom...
Well, still haven't found sympathy for Inhumans (not sure if Marvel wouldn't be dull enough to make some commentary and ended up sounded stupid on the editors by contexts, ala Civil War or even Hudlin's Black Panther wedding part).
I know they're trying to make Mutants sympathetic but Inhumans are...not as what authors intended.
'The mutants certainly don't want to die, don't want to have something on this Earth that's making them sick. But at the same time the Inhumans are like, you know, "It's not everywhere. It's not like it's in the water or in the air. It's like a discrete thing that hypothetically you could, you know, we can work a way around this, so let's not jump into sort of getting rid of it all across the planet just because it happens to make you sick."' - Charles Soule (Ignoring press gangings, barging into other countries, and such. Just like 40k Space Wolves but even they do have standards.)
- Said that Inhumans are also endangered, except it is mostly Show not tell.
- Completely complacent and even they can ask someone to build a giant container (So where's your intelligence, Moongirl?).
- And still no abominations from failed experiments or lawsuits from that.
Anyone want to clarify on this?
BiblioRook
2016-12-28, 04:15 AM
...Wait. So I may not be entirely caught up on the Spider-Gwen series, but apparently Gwenom is now a thing? I mean in a way feels kind of inevitable but at the same time strikes me as kind of ridiculous as at this point Spider-Gwen should really be pretty well informed about 616 Spider-Man's career including all that came out of dealing with the Venom symbiote and why messing with it would be a bad idea so I'm curious how they actually had it come to pass.
Eh, not like she would make a worst Venom then Lee in any case.
lol it's true, what is the coughing for?
Sarcasm on how many aspects they haven't dug up yet.
So, let's talk about Civil War II
Carol and Tony got into a fight, literally everybody shows up to say "STOP FIGHTING! THIS IS REALLY STUPID!", like a technicolor greek chorus.
But, much like an actual greek chorus, their advice is tragically ignored. Tony gets punched into a nondescript techno-coma, his AI-Self gets shipped off to Rori Williams, and he's put into a box.
And, freed from the Mandated Event Stupidity, Carol Danvers gets to revert back to her actual character.
And Ulysses ascends to a higher plane of existence, or something. Goodbye.
Looking back, it seems like the writers did the best they could with this event, and while the basic premise is fine for a bunch of in-character conversations, bringing it to the point of violence requires making characters really, really stupid.
Like, the final fight between Captain Marvel and Iron Man. Spider-Man is prophesized to kill Captain America on the steps of the capitol, so he shows up on the steps and is like "Yeah, I'm not going to kill Captain America"
Captain Marvel: "I know you're not going to kill captain america. But, because I'm forced to be an idiot this arc, I'm going to demand that you get into this box, rather than do one of the thousand others things I could do to prevent you killing captain america."
Spider Man: "What if I don't want to get in the box"
Captain Marvel: "Too Bad, the arc demands I try to force you into the box"
Iron Man: "YOU TRIED TO FORCE HIM INTO THE BOX! THE ARC DEMANDS I TRY TO KILL YOU NOW!"
Like, by the time you get to the capitol steps, we've officially reached the ultimate counterexample to Carol's logic. Spider-Man is literally here for the express purpose of NOT killing Captain America. All she had to do to resolve this was stand around while Spider-Man didn't kill Captain America.
At this point, she has to KNOW the visions are not absolute, since she's been stopping them left and right. She must KNOW that acting to stop the visions can bring them about (Since that exact thing has happened in just about every tie-in to this event). She has literally no reason to grab him except that they need the final showdown to happen.
For an arc all about predestination and seeing the future, the frustratingly inevitable events were the ones that Ulysses did not predict.
BiblioRook
2016-12-30, 10:17 PM
So, let's talk about Civil War II
Aw, do we have to? Actually I probably have very little to contribute here as I've been trying to avoid it as much as possible. The only two CWII stories I really ended up reading were with ANAD Wolverine (Old Man Logan is prophesized to kill x-23's clone-sister) and A-Team (Nico is prophesized to kill some... random woman). Both came true of course as well as going out of the way to avoid them ended up being what caused them to happen. The A-Team one was particularly stupid, the woman Nico was supposively supposed to kill ended up being transformed into this monstrous insect thing and was uncontrollably and involuntarily infecting the entire town she was in, but even after finding this out Carol was all 'But still murder is murder and that's bad so don't do it'. In the end the bug lady volunteered to be killed just to stop the infection and for whatever reason Nico still had to be the one to do it (because reasons).
EDIT: So I took a bit to catch myself up on a few of my titles and/or new ones continuing characters I fallow. Is it just me or is Marvel... really kind of depressing right now? I guess being in Post-CWII has a lot to do with it, but just ugh.
Although there's also the flip-side and you get things like Great Lakes Avengers which is going into... weirdo furry territory (They recruited a new member who is a young teenage girl who has the ability to transform into a male werewolf, she also happens to be really into internet fanfics.)
As a side-note on something lighter. I wonder what is it about some of the Marvel games I play that often add really obscure characters to the game. Like the one I play a lot right now has the likes of Darkhawk, Night Thrasher, and Bengal. I only have vaguely heard of Darkhawk before and that is more then I can say for the other two. I just wonder why they would bother with the likes of these characters when adding a character to a game likely requires quite a bit of effort that could instead be used to code more mainstream or desired characters.
So, let's talk about Civil War II
Carol and Tony got into a fight, literally everybody shows up to say "STOP FIGHTING! THIS IS REALLY STUPID!", like a technicolor greek chorus.
But, much like an actual greek chorus, their advice is tragically ignored. Tony gets punched into a nondescript techno-coma, his AI-Self gets shipped off to Rori Williams, and he's put into a box.
And, freed from the Mandated Event Stupidity, Carol Danvers gets to revert back to her actual character.
And Ulysses ascends to a higher plane of existence, or something. Goodbye.
Looking back, it seems like the writers did the best they could with this event, and while the basic premise is fine for a bunch of in-character conversations, bringing it to the point of violence requires making characters really, really stupid.
Like, the final fight between Captain Marvel and Iron Man. Spider-Man is prophesized to kill Captain America on the steps of the capitol, so he shows up on the steps and is like "Yeah, I'm not going to kill Captain America"
Captain Marvel: "I know you're not going to kill captain america. But, because I'm forced to be an idiot this arc, I'm going to demand that you get into this box, rather than do one of the thousand others things I could do to prevent you killing captain america."
Spider Man: "What if I don't want to get in the box"
Captain Marvel: "Too Bad, the arc demands I try to force you into the box"
Iron Man: "YOU TRIED TO FORCE HIM INTO THE BOX! THE ARC DEMANDS I TRY TO KILL YOU NOW!"
Like, by the time you get to the capitol steps, we've officially reached the ultimate counterexample to Carol's logic. Spider-Man is literally here for the express purpose of NOT killing Captain America. All she had to do to resolve this was stand around while Spider-Man didn't kill Captain America.
At this point, she has to KNOW the visions are not absolute, since she's been stopping them left and right. She must KNOW that acting to stop the visions can bring them about (Since that exact thing has happened in just about every tie-in to this event). She has literally no reason to grab him except that they need the final showdown to happen.
For an arc all about predestination and seeing the future, the frustratingly inevitable events were the ones that Ulysses did not predict.
Well, sure wish they had large scale galactic conflict like Annihilation Wave.
Also here are some Marvel's copying 40k (yes, Tau exists in Marvel Cosmos but not sure if they sterilize people, unlike Inhumans that Marvel keep insisting that they are good guys and Cyclops is "insane").
https://graphicpolicy.com/2016/04/28/is-that-tau-in-venom-space-knight-paging-gw-lawyers/
Ceiling_Squid
2017-01-05, 04:24 PM
...the Tau certainly don't exist in Marvel. That was just an artist blatantly stealing art assets.
...the Tau certainly don't exist in Marvel. That was just an artist blatantly stealing art assets.
I know that, it's just a joke.
BiblioRook
2017-01-06, 03:11 PM
So apparently Moon Girl and the new Wasp are going to be crossing over quite a bit in the near future. By the looks of things Nadia (the new Wasp) is going to be going gathering together the teen-aged girl geniuses of the Marvel world (going by the rather uninspired name G.I.R.L.) and Moon Girl is going to be a (abet temporary) part of that with hopes to also crossover with Riri at some point. What they plan on doing together I have no clue but it will be nice to have Moon Girl doing something involving her super-smarts rather then playing superhero and dealing with alien puppy love. Also on that note I'm looking forward to just reading more about Nadia period. I neglected to mention it before when I found out that she was getting her own series but I'm super glad she is because I really wanted to see more of her in what little I've seen of her so far and was worried to do so I would have to resort to reading the new Avengers (who's new line-up doesn't interest me at all now that most of the characters I liked in it have moved on to other things).
Connected to what I was saying earlier about characters in Marvel related games, now that I think about it it's kind of weird that all these new teen girl characters aren't popping up in them more often, or at all really. I know the one game (Marvel Puzzle Quest) has always been really big on including new up and coming characters into the game (first game to officially feature the female Thor) but haven't touched on any of the above yet. Well, they did sort of offer to put Riri Williams into the game I guess but left it at a vote for the current players and most replied with a resounding 'No" (as well as a few "Who is Riri?"). But the weird thing is in both of the games I play how Devil Dinosaur is so prominent. Maybe he falls into 'weird obscure characters' and what I was talking about with that before, but I still find it strange.
BiblioRook
2017-01-11, 06:30 PM
Anyone know what this whole 'Monsters Unleashed' thing is supposed to be about? It's absolutely dominating recent previews... but from what I can tell has no real story significance. Maybe it's a 'We had quite a few series story arches in a row now so here's some mindless violence and monster fights to use as a breather'? That or (or possibly 'and') they just had all these monsters sitting around unused for so long that they just figured they would try using them all at once and try to get them put back into the modern continuity...
Edit: Dammit, so far the most redeemable characters in Venom are the FBI agents, and they are written with the intent of being jerkwad antagonists. Again, I would probably enjoy this series indefinitely more if Venom managed to successfully possess one of the agents. Anyways, so Lee and Venom are going to be blackmailed into working with the FBI. This raises a bit of a question considering how Agent Venom was called such because he worked directly for the US government, granted it was the Army not the FBI but I have a hard time believing that the FBI wouldn't have that information or that there is any reason why the people Agent Venom worked under shouldn't get involved (they do, after all, have a lot of experience with Venom from back where it was still a monster). I am amused at how happy Venom is to be working for the FBI though. Annoyingly however this issue forshadows a great deal about how much Klyntar are defined by their host, or in other words Venom was a hero because Thomson was heroic but considering Lee that really suggests they are paving the way for Venom to go all villain/anti-hero. Ugh.
Connected to what I was saying earlier about characters in Marvel related games, now that I think about it it's kind of weird that all these new teen girl characters aren't popping up in them more often, or at all really. I know the one game (Marvel Puzzle Quest) has always been really big on including new up and coming characters into the game (first game to officially feature the female Thor) but haven't touched on any of the above yet. Well, they did sort of offer to put Riri Williams into the game I guess but left it at a vote for the current players and most replied with a resounding 'No" (as well as a few "Who is Riri?"). But the weird thing is in both of the games I play how Devil Dinosaur is so prominent. Maybe he falls into 'weird obscure characters' and what I was talking about with that before, but I still find it strange.
Between the recent Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur series as well as Monsters Unleashed, I would say that Devil Dino getting added makes sense, I play Future Fight and we got a teaser for Dino on one of the Monsters Unleashed covers. It's funny that you guys were asked if you wanted Ironheart, in the update we had that added her, Kate Bishop and Medusa, she was, of all things a paywall character, so I almost guarantee that given the choice, we also would have given a resounding "no" to her being added.
BiblioRook
2017-01-24, 01:44 AM
Well yes now I wouldn't think Devil Dino being added would be odd, but of the two games I mostly play the first one added him well before the Moon Girl series (intended as a joke character) and neither games so much as mentioning Moon Girl herself much less adding her to the game (beyond maybe updating Devil Dino's cover to one she appears on). Stupid part of it? In said game they even did a major remodel on the Devil Dinosaur character updating and changing up his abilities to something more game-relevant. This would have been a perfect time to add something Moon Girl related to him.
The two games I play are Marvel Puzzle Quest and Marvel Tsum Tsum btw with Marvel Puzzle Quest being the game I'm talking about above. Between the two I can't really see MPQ adding Moon Girl as her own individual character which is why I was really hoping they would combined her with the already existing Devil Dinosaur character post-character update (much like they combined Rocket and Groot into one character instead of having them separate). Marvel Tsum Tsum however I can easily see having Moon Girl introduced on hr own but to date haven't seen any signs suggesting such.
Also funny you just bring up Riri now because MPQ literally got around to adding her to the game like three days ago as well by the looks of it she will in the next batch of characters added to Marvel Tsum Tsum.
EDIT: Well scratch that. Moon Girl confirmed for Marvel Tsum Tsum February 11.
BiblioRook
2017-01-30, 02:49 AM
I've been thinking about something that I don't really get. So with She-Hulk's new 'Hulk' series it goes on to say because the main Hulk (Bruce) is dead that she no longer needs to bother adding the 'She' to 'She-Hulk' because it's not just her... but isn't that blatantly untrue? I mean, Cho is still very alive and active and took on the Hulk name well before Bruce even died, not to mention Red Hulk and Red She-Hulk are probably still around and kicking somewhere (or rather even multiple, if lessor, Red Hulks running around if U.S.Avengers is to be believed).
Kitten Champion
2017-01-30, 03:15 AM
I've been thinking about something that I don't really get. So with She-Hulk's new 'Hulk' series it goes on to say because the main Hulk (Bruce) is dead that she no longer needs to bother adding the 'She' to 'She-Hulk' because it's not just her... but isn't that blatantly untrue? I mean, Cho is still very alive and active and took on the Hulk name well before Bruce even died, not to mention Red Hulk and Red She-Hulk are probably still around and kicking somewhere (or rather even multiple, if lessor, Red Hulks running around if U.S.Avengers is to be believed).
I think there's a rather simple justification that Bruce Banner and his role as Hulk has greater personal significance for her than other Hulk-like beings in-universe, and that's the role she's chosen to occupy. She's also got, ya'know, seniority in Hulk-dom. That, and the word Hulk itself doesn't specify a gender to begin with.
I mean it's a contrivance regardless, we're I her I'd simply call myself Jennifer but comic titles are a thing.
BiblioRook
2017-01-30, 04:28 AM
Actually thinking about it more it's not as if even she is going around saying "I am now the one true Hulk!"... if anything she's been trying to distance herself from the Hulk side of her even more then usual so far in the title. Even taking in that though it's still kind of weird and nonsensical that they tried to go in that direction for the series as it's probably confusing at best and misleading at worst. When you see 'Hulk" as the title a certain expectation comes to mind and likewise the same when you see 'She-Hulk' on the cover, but this new 'Hulk' series (so far at least) is very much a She-Hulk series (if more serious then normal) and is pretty light on the 'Hulk' side of things and I wonder how many people went into it expecting rampaging and wanton destruction but instead got civil law drama.
Actually thinking about it more it's not as if even she is going around saying "I am now the one true Hulk!"... if anything she's been trying to distance herself from the Hulk side of her even more then usual so far in the title. Even taking in that though it's still kind of weird and nonsensical that they tried to go in that direction for the series as it's probably confusing at best and misleading at worst. When you see 'Hulk" as the title a certain expectation comes to mind and likewise the same when you see 'She-Hulk' on the cover, but this new 'Hulk' series (so far at least) is very much a She-Hulk series (if more serious then normal) and is pretty light on the 'Hulk' side of things and I wonder how many people went into it expecting rampaging and wanton destruction but instead got civil law drama.
Eh, there's some thematic consistency.
She-Hulk books were usually legal drama+Power fantasy. She was a big green bombshell with a brilliant legal mind, in total control of herself.
The whole "Control the monster within" thing was usually a central part of Hulk books, and is the central theme of the new "Hulk" series. You have Legal Drama+Controlling the Monster, so from a thematic perspective, calling it "Hulk" fits better.
However, I had to get into some meta-analysis there, which means it probably went too far.
Thialfi
2017-01-30, 11:11 AM
My son is into comics. I grew up passingly familiar with the characters, but I'd never read anything. I read the first two issues of the new hulk. Very little happens plot wise. It's all a character study of she hulk adjusting to her life after waking up from her coma. I enjoyed it immensely. Sadly, my son will probably pass on it as he likes comics where heroes smash things. He's 13, so I don't blame him. if it keeps this up, I might actually buy it for myself.
https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6712531.html#cutid1
Was it me or I am more worried since Dan Slott is the writer for this show along side "MCU 2.0".
BiblioRook
2017-01-30, 07:54 PM
Eh, there's some thematic consistency.
She-Hulk books were usually legal drama+Power fantasy. She was a big green bombshell with a brilliant legal mind, in total control of herself.
The whole "Control the monster within" thing was usually a central part of Hulk books, and is the central theme of the new "Hulk" series. You have Legal Drama+Controlling the Monster, so from a thematic perspective, calling it "Hulk" fits better.
However, I had to get into some meta-analysis there, which means it probably went too far.
That's an interesting point that I never really thought to deeply on and it certainly clears the concept up for me. To be honest I actually never really looked into the actual Hulk books before so probably really know very little about how they tend to be, though taking what you just pointed out and thinking about Cho's TA Hulk I think it's kind of interesting of looking at that through the theme of 'Controlling the monster within' as well.
My son is into comics. I grew up passingly familiar with the characters, but I'd never read anything. I read the first two issues of the new hulk. Very little happens plot wise. It's all a character study of she hulk adjusting to her life after waking up from her coma. I enjoyed it immensely. Sadly, my son will probably pass on it as he likes comics where heroes smash things. He's 13, so I don't blame him. if it keeps this up, I might actually buy it for myself.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying that I'm not enjoying She-Hulk's 'Hulk' title, just that it feels kinda jumbley concept wise (mostly because of things like referring to it as 'She-Hulk's 'Hulk' title'). Like is it just a statement? A legit rebranding? I'm really not quite sure just where they intend to go with this. Although I would like to think if they were really trying to pull a "the Hulk is dead, long live the Hulk" or trying to drop the 'She' from 'She-Hulk' that they would go more along the likes of just giving her a whole 'nother name rather then taking on the Hulk one.
Now that I read what I just said I realize it sounds uncomfortably like those arguments of 'Why have a female/ethnic hero take on the tile/role of an existing hero when they could just instead create something new altogether', that's not what I'm getting at. I just find it rather confusing to think about suddenly calling She-Hulk just plain 'Hulk' all of a sudden. It's almost rather unfortunate though, funny to think of something like the name 'She-Hulk' being a byproduct of being a secondary female counterpart to an existing popular male character having to go and make such a distinct legitimate name for itself that I'm actively more upset over the idea of Jenn losing the name 'She-Hulk' then I would be over her gaining the name 'Hulk'. I would even go as far as to say that it almost feels like something of a down-grade.
That being said, as far as your 13 year-old son is concerned, maybe look into the Totally Awesome Hulk. That one I can totally see being up a young boy's alley.
Then again (yes I probably put to much thought into things like this) did Bruce ever actually call himself 'the Hulk'?
That's an interesting point that I never really thought to deeply on and it certainly clears the concept up for me. To be honest I actually never really looked into the actual Hulk books before so probably really know very little about how they tend to be, though taking what you just pointed out and thinking about Cho's TA Hulk I think it's kind of interesting of looking at that through the theme of 'Controlling the monster within' as well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying that I'm not enjoying She-Hulk's 'Hulk' title, just that it feels kinda jumbley concept wise (mostly because of things like referring to it as 'She-Hulk's 'Hulk' title'). Like is it just a statement? A legit rebranding? I'm really not quite sure just where they intend to go with this. Although I would like to think if they were really trying to pull a "the Hulk is dead, long live the Hulk" or trying to drop the 'She' from 'She-Hulk' that they would go more along the likes of just giving her a whole 'nother name rather then taking on the Hulk one.
Now that I read what I just said I realize it sounds uncomfortably like those arguments of 'Why have a female/ethnic hero take on the tile/role of an existing hero when they could just instead create something new altogether', that's not what I'm getting at. I just find it rather confusing to think about suddenly calling She-Hulk just plain 'Hulk' all of a sudden. It's almost rather unfortunate though, funny to think of something like the name 'She-Hulk' being a byproduct of being a secondary female counterpart to an existing popular male character having to go and make such a distinct legitimate name for itself that I'm actively more upset over the idea of Jenn losing the name 'She-Hulk' then I would be over her gaining the name 'Hulk'. I would even go as far as to say that it almost feels like something of a down-grade.
That being said, as far as your 13 year-old son is concerned, maybe look into the Totally Awesome Hulk. That one I can totally see being up a young boy's alley.
Then again (yes I probably put to much thought into things like this) did Bruce ever actually call himself 'the Hulk'?
I think I read somewhere the implication is that ALL the Hulks are based on some form of "The monster within".
Basically, Hulk Classic isn't a giant green rage monster because that's the default state of Hulks, but because Bruce Banner has serious anger issues. When he Hulks out, all the anger he normally keeps under control gets to drive.
Jen Walters was a brilliant legal mind, and she knew it, but normally she was kind of shy, because she didn't want to come across as arrogant. As She-Hulk, she's emotionally well-adjusted, but proud (Maybe to the point of arrogance) and forceful. Once again, everything she's repressing comes to the forefront, but in her case it manifests as Confidence, rather than blind rage.
Amadeus Cho is in basically the same boat as Jen, in that his Hulk persona is driven more by pride and arrogance than Anger, but while she ends up as a well-adjusted, confident giant green lawyer, he's got the arrogance of a teenage boy who is genuinely on a list of "World's Smartest People".
Thrudd
2017-01-31, 12:34 PM
I think I read somewhere the implication is that ALL the Hulks are based on some form of "The monster within".
Basically, Hulk Classic isn't a giant green rage monster because that's the default state of Hulks, but because Bruce Banner has serious anger issues. When he Hulks out, all the anger he normally keeps under control gets to drive.
Jen Walters was a brilliant legal mind, and she knew it, but normally she was kind of shy, because she didn't want to come across as arrogant. As She-Hulk, she's emotionally well-adjusted, but proud (Maybe to the point of arrogance) and forceful. Once again, everything she's repressing comes to the forefront, but in her case it manifests as Confidence, rather than blind rage.
Amadeus Cho is in basically the same boat as Jen, in that his Hulk persona is driven more by pride and arrogance than Anger, but while she ends up as a well-adjusted, confident giant green lawyer, he's got the arrogance of a teenage boy who is genuinely on a list of "World's Smartest People".
Right. Cho also has repressed machismo and aggression (as probably most males do), so his hulk tempts him to release that violent/sexual animal nature that is emerging in all teenage boys - that's most obvious in the issues with Amora, but also apparent in how he acts around Jen and pretty much all females from the beginning.
Gen Ross's monster within is an exaggeration of the perfect warrior-general, calculating and uncompromising and merciless (with some anger issues as well).
I'm not as familiar with Betsy's hulk alter-ego, but I'd bet there is something connected to frustration with both her father and Bruce and being seen as helpless for a long time.
Pretty much all hulks also display some form of arrogance - some version of "Hulk is the strongest there is!"
My guess is that the new "Hulk" is so titled because it will be exploring themes more typical of Hulk stories, an inner struggle or battling personalities - whereas She-Hulk has in the past generally been immune to emotional struggles, entirely in control and well-adjusted - now she's shaken up and I assume the gamma-monster is going to be giving her more problems.
It also isn't unprecedented that a "Hulk" title be mainly about someone other than Bruce - the introduction of Red Hulk was under the "Hulk" title, and it followed mainly him for a fairly long arc.
Kamala Khan: "So who are the good guys?"
Oh, Kamala, you silly little goof along with that corporate thief guy.
I swear that they should have realized about HR Giger victims by now.
BiblioRook
2017-02-08, 05:29 PM
Man I'm so behind on the Ms. Marvel comic. It's not that I lost interest in it but I guess I just have been hitting a lull in my comic reading and that was one of the titles that suffered for it, partially I guess because around the time I dropped off from it it was getting... annoyingly dramatic.
Also anyone want to hear me complain more about the new Venom? Because I feel like complaining more about the new Venom.
Ugh, everything about it just makes me so mad. Marvel seems to be so smug about it too! Just picked up a advertisement for it the other day proclaiming "Featuring a shocking new return!" while showing the new Venom fighting Spider-Man. Right, because returning Venom to his tired old roots and having him fight against the traditional hero he normally fought back in the day is really an innovative twist. Never mind that this fight probably has little to reason to actually happen other then people going "Wouldn't it be cool if we had Spider-Man and Venom duke it out again like back in the old days?". Worst part of it is apparently from what I hear from one of my local comic shops the new Venom is actually selling really well. Why is it that I can't help imagine that the people buying it are the same people that still complain that Thor is currently female?
Also also, apparently RL Stine is writing comics for Marvel now?
BiblioRook
2017-02-16, 12:39 AM
*Sigh* Part of me really wants to just accept that Venom is different now and put it behind me but just every time I see a new issue I just get so... angry. It's not just that everything about it is stupid (though in my opinion it really kind of is) but it's more the fact that Flash as Venom was legitimate one of my favorite characters. Change is one thing but just how is one supposed to handle it when a character you really like is snuffed out basically over night without so much a word as to how or why and replaced with something you absolutely can't stand? And for what? Because the writers got bored? Was writing for Carnage not an option then? Or what about Eddie Brock and Toxic, I'm sure they are still around too. Presumably they will get around to answering just as to what the hell happened to Flash but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like it (save maybe the revelation he's still alive and well and is actively hunting down Lee to reclaim Venom) and even at best I really can't foresee myself ever actually enjoying this new series...
On the flip-side of that, who would think that now over a year later Gwenpool would still be a thing and more then that still be actually enjoyable. I mean, coming from such a stupid concept (combining the esthetics of Deadpool and Spider-Gwen) and on paper it sounds ridiculous and stupid but I would have to say that currently it's probably one of the few series I actually actively look forward to right now.
Also apparently the whole Captain America working for HYDRA thing is still a thing? I wonder just how long they are going to run with that chestnut. I mean I heard so little about it since the first big reveal that I actually almost completely forgot about it. But then again I guess Red Skull running around with Professor X's brain is also still a thing so I guess it's not as if big weirdo plot points like are ever really resolved very quickly...
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/6778526.html
Well, I would wish for the Inhuman metaphor if the reader remembers about their brutal caste system and results of totalitarian blue berries' experiment. Ignoring their sterilization of anyone who disagree and mass-kidnappings but no backlash by public.
Definitely Marvel will do it from their self-righteous ways, ignoring how Marvel Cosmos is actually dangerous like Skrulls and Shi'ar invading Earth from time to time.
Nice try, Spencer. But your commentary falls short.
*slides the Bolt Pistol* FOR THE IMPERIUM!
http://locuas642.tumblr.com/post/157550984973/mia-beak-wraparoundcurl-dragthemcu
Well, it's official. Somehow Marvel editorial staffs has been replaced with Highlords of Terra.
Seriously, I rather have a grand Space Opera story than Captain America going fascist/Kryptman thing with bad publicity, somehow Inhumans being blameless yet get to play victim, and Marvel Civil War 2 not helping much.
BiblioRook
2017-03-01, 10:23 PM
So I was reading the new America series (because outside being part of the Ultimates, America Chavez never seemed to really get a lot of attention) and A-Force sort of came to mind (where, in my opinion, she sort of got short-shafted in it's original Secret Wars version) and I couldn't help wonder... just what the heck happened to Singularity? I mean, it's not like A-Force existed in a bubble (the non-Secret Wars one anyways I mean) nor was it like the series ended with some climactic send-off for Singularity, it literally ended with a rather subdued not of "Oh, She Hulk is in a coma so I guess we can't really continue this series anymore."
I guess for that mater, what of Dazzler and Nico as well? While it's pretty clear what the likes of Captain Marvel, She Hulk, and Medusa are currently up to the rest just kind of went *poof*. Sadly it's not that I'm saying this is surprising but the fact that this sort of thing happens so much is probably one of my biggest gripes of the comic industry. Mania is another huge example of this (and really is yet another huge point in an already overly-long list of why I hate the new Venom series). Basically she was an interesting character that they introduced only to drop with tons of things going on with her unresolved not once but twice.
Well, AVX is over and...
Yet somehow Inhumans are trying to adopt democracy. Might be attempt to appease the re..I mean "sane" people on their rigid caste structure.
Even WH40k's Tau, used due to having similarity in castes and being one of hated aspects by respective fandom, look like good guys.
BiblioRook
2017-03-08, 07:47 PM
Do you mean IvX? I mean I know AvX was a thing but considering I make a point not to fallow those kinds of events I wasn't 100% confident it wasn't still a thing. Geez, now that I think about it even before the whole the whole meta mutant bias the X-Men really couldn't catch a break.
Also on the topic of Infumans, does Lockjaw still feature in much of it? Lockjaw is probably one of the few core Inhumans I really care anything about, partially due to him (briefly) being part of the Ms. Marvel comic as well as the fact that he's a giant teleporting dog. Actually that one big Inhuman story arc in the first series of Ms. Marvel always confused me, it felt like it was trying to set up for something big but then just kind of... ended and was never mentioned again. Not that I'm really complaining, it wasn't really a great arc to begin with, but I'm just curious what they were trying to do with it. The abrupt ending of it also marked Lockjaw just leaving the Ms. Marvel comic without a mention despite being set up as being sent to her to act as a sort of companion or guardian for her. I guess there's just a lot about that one arc I didn't understand.
Also looking over the comics for this week (admittedly it was kind of a small week for me) I realized rather amusingly how my three current favorite comics all kind are titled the same way; Unstoppable, Unbeatable, Unbelievable.
Actually I recently had to defend The Unstoppable Wasp to some people I was talking comics with against a rather misleading article (imo) that they read about the new Wasp being sexist of all things. I find that rather ridiculous personally but it's nether here nor there really, I only bring it up because in arguing my case I realized something. Not something as much that the new Wasp does well but something I never really though about in how Moon Girl does poorly. Maybe I need to reread Moon Girl a bit but it sort of goes into 'show don't tell'. Take things like Nadia Pym or Riri Williams or even Squirrel Girl, these characters you can really feel not only their intelligence but also their love for the pursuit of knowledge and you can really believe that they are literal geniuses (not that I'm claiming that Squirrel Girl is on the level of Nadia or Riri or even that I'm claiming her to be a genius, just that her education and love for computer science is such a big part of her comic I felt odd leaving it out). I mean, just about everything about the new Wasp practically oozes with her unbridled love of science and the reader doesn't need to be told just how smart she is on a regular basis because it's already right there plain as day. Then take Moon Girl. I talked about this plenty before I guess but this is a character that is supposed to be literally the single smartest person in the Marvel Universe right? Just what does she do with it? Again, not the first time I harped on this tidbit but seems like the way her story goes is "I must use my super-smarts to avoid this tragic thing from happening to me! Oh well, failed that but hey I guess I have super-powers now so I guess I must now go fight crime". Compare that with Nadia. Grew up in a secret evil program to optimize and utilize her intelligence and manages to break out. Afterwards what does she do with her new-found freedom? Not become a superhero but continues to pursue science! And this not only with dealing with her up-bringing but also her legacy. I mean she's the actual daughter of Hank Pym, it would be so easy to make her go down the route of "I must fallow in my father's footsteps and/or seek revenge on those who have wronged me", but they don't and it's refreshing. I mean sure she still fights stuff on occasion, she is still in a superhero comic after all, but it's certainly not the focus. Why couldn't Moon Girl be more like that? I guess there's certainly the issue of her parents holding her back and her being stuck in, ugh, public school. But seriously? n a genre known for it's often stupid plot contrivances this sticks out to me as one of the stupidest. Smartest person in the world but is forced to be stuck in a public school? Come on! Don't get me wrong, I love the existence of the likes of Moon Girl and Riri as Marvel's way of trying to break the glass ceiling of the intellectual elite, but it kind of kills me that they don't do anything with her aside from parade her around as being a thing.
On a lighter note: Gwenpool and Deadpool finally meet. It doesn't go as you might expect. (http://imgur.com/vgU5qnQ)
...It actually gets surprisingly violent from there. But maybe that's not as surprising as I think.
*sigh*
I swear that Guardians of the Galaxy will be getting fair share of blame for upcoming Chitauri invasion since Bendis had no idea that Earth has tons of space ships.
Marvel, you suck at Space Opera genre since Abnett left.
BiblioRook
2017-03-31, 05:21 AM
Do I even want to know what this whole new 'Resurrxion' thing is supposed to be about? I mean on the surface of things it see,s like it might be about bringing the X-Men back to it's former prominence but Marvel has to do a bit more then that for me to just simply take their word for it and I'll believe it more when I see it...
Also the summery for the X-Men side of this little event talks about protecting a world that hates and fears them. I mean I know that that's pretty standard for when it comes to the X-Men, but do people in the Marvel world really still hate and fear mutants? They seriously aren't over that yet? I mean you would think after the explosive population growth of Inhumans that those biases and fears would be ether lessened or diverted. It really kind of goes beyond just simple ignorance at this point, if nothing else just how many X-Men have been active members of the Avengers again? Even just recently even with everything that has been going on Rogue still served (though admittedly so did some Inhuman girl, but she remains to make such little an impact that I still can't even recall her name).
Although talking about the events of Uncanny Avengers (the one Rogue is a part of) and this whole 'Resurrxion' thing, the two actually might be a bit more connected now that I think about it.
As of the most recent issue they finally managed to defeat Red Skull and his stolen telepathic powers (thanks in no small part to Deadpool), but instead of killing him out-right Rogue instead decides to take him to Beast presumably in order to extract Professor X's brain. Honestly I'm not really sure how they hope to achieve this considering Red Skull acquired Professor X's powers by eating his brain and not by simply inserting it into himself, but whatever...
Kitten Champion
2017-03-31, 07:08 AM
Also the summery for the X-Men side of this little event talks about protecting a world that hates and fears them. I mean I know that that's pretty standard for when it comes to the X-Men, but do people in the Marvel world really still hate and fear mutants? They seriously aren't over that yet? I mean you would think after the explosive population growth of Inhumans that those biases and fears would be ether lessened or diverted. It really kind of goes beyond just simple ignorance at this point, if nothing else just how many X-Men have been active members of the Avengers again? Even just recently even with everything that has been going on Rogue still served (though admittedly so did some Inhuman girl, but she remains to make such little an impact that I still can't even recall her name).
Marvel using Mutants as a stand-in for discriminated minorities has certainly been questionable at times and the Inhumans don't exactly help in that regard, however -- what you're saying sounds kind of silly when you consider real-world bigotry still exists for far more tenuous reasons and likely will for generations. This in spite of any number of examples of members of group X countering such narratives that you could point to. Granted real-world groups don't go through some of the fantastical shenanigans like M-Day, but I don't think it would really help them if they did.
BiblioRook
2017-03-31, 05:33 PM
Not trying to belittle real-world racism, more the part about the continued discrimination towards mutants that boggles me is, well, that things like Inhumans exist and that people seem relatively fine with them. I mean to compare the two: otherwise normal kids suddenly developing strange abilities at puberty due to a weird genetic blip? Burn 'em all! Kids and adults alike spontaneously developing strange abilities (and often radically altering their appearance to boot) after exposure to a certain gas in the atmosphere due to secret alien heritage? Eh, that's fine.
Granted I can easily be way off base with this given just how little I try to fallow Inhumans and maybe they do get discriminated just as much as mutants did, but as a whole they always seemed to get off lighter.
http://www.vulture.com/2017/04/marvel-sales-vp-fans-not-into-diversity-female-characters.html
:smallsigh: when will they understand the concept of not trying to make cosmic hero earthbound for months.
Heck, the secret empire plot would have ended if entire GOTG hadn't be dumb enough to wander around the earth rather than borrowing a ship.
Edit: Inhumans are democratic now, all except for slaves and Non Attilans.
DiscipleofBob
2017-04-04, 11:31 AM
I've been hearing rumors about something called Marvel Generations coming to the comics. Something about going back to focus on classic characters instead of coming up with new minority versions to take the mantle? Anyone hearing anything about this? I would love if Marvel did something similar to DC Rebirth but I don't have my hopes up.
I've been hearing rumors about something called Marvel Generations coming to the comics. Something about going back to focus on classic characters instead of coming up with new minority versions to take the mantle? Anyone hearing anything about this? I would love if Marvel did something similar to DC Rebirth but I don't have my hopes up.
Generations dosn't sound much like DC: Rebirth. Rebirth was more of a general refocusing with no clear theme except that they rebooted a bunch of books.
If your hope is that Generations will do away with the Marvel NOW wave of characters, I wouldn't get your hopes up, to be honest. Marvel Comics is workshopping characters for eventual film adaptations. Generations is probably just going to be a pallet-cleanser feel-good event that doesn't require Marvel to mutilate anybody's characterization (See: Civil War 2, Secret Empire, ect). It will be another Secret Wars, "EVERYTHING CHANGES! BUT NOT REALLY, WE JUST WANT THIS ONE THING TO CHANGE!". There's probably some specific character they want to bring back, and so they do yet another linewide event, rather than just bring back that one character. My money would be on wolverine, except that they brought Old Man Logan into the primary world, so he's basically already here. Iron Man is an option, but he just left, and they put him in a supercoma. I don't think they would do a linewide event for that.
Thor? They literally just did a bit where he COULD have rejoined, using the Ultimate Thor's hammer, but chose not to.
Hrmm, Smart money says that this is about The Hulk. Thor: Ragnarok is coming up. Bruce Banner died in civil war II, but he was already faded out of the spotlight before then. Totally Awesome Hulk doesn't seem to have resonated the same way other 2nd generation legacy characters have.
BiblioRook
2017-04-19, 07:23 PM
Well I never thought I would see the day when I was glad to see Eddie Brock back as Venom. Honestly I would probably even take Mac Gargan (The Scorpion) as Venom over Lee though. Sadly I doubt this is really the last we will actually see of Lee, they spent to much time trying to set him up, but I would be no less then overjoyed if they did end up ditching him cold-turkey.
Also for the first time since this godawful series started they actually gave a reason for Venom to go back to being a villain beyond the fact that it's being worn by a psycopath, Spider-Man comes in and takes advantage of it's trust to separate it from Lee only to immediately betray it and capture it. It's kind of sad actually. I know it would never happen but I'm actually now really kind of curious what Spider-Man would be like joining up with the new non-crazy Venom symbiote...
In other news, looks like the Secret Empire event is now starting up, hardly one I plan on fallowing as the whole "Captain America is secretly working for Hydra' bit was amusing at first but now is something I would like to see behind us. Honestly as I mentioned before I was a little surprised it was even still going on! I don't really know just what direction they plan on taking that or even if this event will conclude it though. Fortunately it looks easy enough to avoid as (for once) it isn't hijacking any of the titles I really fallow.
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