NES system relaunch - 30 classic games

[Olinser]

So Nintendo has announced that they are re-launching a 'mini' NES console with 30 classic games installed on it.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160714005388/en/Relive-Glories-Nintendo%E2%80%99s-Ultimate-Retro-Gaming-Experience

There are definitely some classics here, and I'm personally pleased to see StarTropics included, that was one of my all time favorite NES games. I'm a little surprised Dragon Warrior didn't make the cut, and I seriously question the decision to leave off BattleToads, whose infamous difficulty makes it legendary. Also, ONLY Mega Man 2???? And NO CONTRA?!?!?!!

However, I question the market for this. The Nintendo DS already had a large number of these games ported for it and given that this explicitly will not have the ability to get MORE games, nostalgia will only take you so far.

Personally, I think I will pick this up, but not sure if it will do well in the market.

[Rodin]

If they do one of those for the SNES, I'll be right in there. You stated the problem with the regular NES one perfectly - most of the games are already available for the DS. It would be much better to do the SNES, because the only way to get those currently is to have a Wii U. Those games alone aren't enough to sell the Wii U, but they would work to sell a modern SNES.

I also tend to think that the SNES games haven't aged as badly as the NES ones, but that's just me.

[Gnoman]

If this had a cartridge port it would be more worthwhile (as it is HDMI out, it probably outputs in a format that won't suffer from screen lag on an HDTV), but as far as I can tell it does not. There's also no information I can find on whether it's essentially the original hardware or uses emulation, but that's probably less of a big deal than it would be on most of the retroclones as Nintendo seems ot have better emulators than standard.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It's not exactly a relaunch for the NES; it's more like "Nintendo does one of those '30 classic arcade games in a faux console cabinet' dealies". Atari's done at least a few of them, too. That said, since it's Nintendo, I anticipate it'll be pretty good-quality and not cheapo ports.

[Yuki Akuma]

Mega Man 2, but... not Mega Man?

Bwuh?

[Olinser]

Mega Man 2, but... not Mega Man?

Bwuh?

Probably thought today's special little snowflakes couldn't take getting multiple game overs on the first screen of Guts Man's stage.

[Eldariel]

I'm a bit sad about it missing out on Guardian Legend - a criminally underrated game IMHO. That said, it's downright criminal that there's no Mega Man 3, Mega Man, Contra or Battletoads. Other than that they hit a lot of good ones though, and at least Mega Man 2 as the ultimate specimen of the series is there. Including Zapper with like Duck Hunt and the Circus-game (whose name escapes me even though the cartridge is probably within 2 meters from me) would've made for an amusing curveball!

[Joran]

If this had a cartridge port it would be more worthwhile (as it is HDMI out, it probably outputs in a format that won't suffer from screen lag on an HDTV), but as far as I can tell it does not. There's also no information I can find on whether it's essentially the original hardware or uses emulation, but that's probably less of a big deal than it would be on most of the retroclones as Nintendo seems ot have better emulators than standard.

Probably emulation, someone guessed on the Ars Technica article that it has 3DS internals because all the titles are currently on the 3DS Store with the save state support.

For an upscale NES retro-gaming experience (at a premium price), Analogue is selling a NES console for $500.


http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/analogue-4-980x654.jpg


Museum Grade NES (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/analogue-nt-a-museum-grade-nes-for-a-museum-grade-price)

[Gnoman]

Probably emulation, someone guessed on the Ars Technica article that it has 3DS internals because all the titles are currently on the 3DS Store with the save state support.

For an upscale NES retro-gaming experience (at a premium price), Analogue is selling a NES console for $500.


http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/analogue-4-980x654.jpg


Museum Grade NES (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/analogue-nt-a-museum-grade-nes-for-a-museum-grade-price)

Not worth the price over just using the real console and a CRT (or just modding the real console with HDMI, which has been done), plus it is so ugly it makes me want to vomit.

[Zevox]

Mega Man 2, but... not Mega Man?

Bwuh?
Well, Mega Man 2 is generally the one regarded as the better game, and probably the single most iconic entry in the original series.

Also, no Battletoads makes perfect sense. That was a Rareware game, so it's owned by Microsoft now. Which is why Rash got to be a DLC character in the new Killer Instinct.

[danzibr]

Not a list. At least two of those are pure gold ;)

[Cristo Meyers]

Colour me interested. The number of games on there that I have fond memories of playing far outweigh the number of ones I couldn't care less about.

Wonder if my Super C skills are still up to snuff...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not a bad list of games, although I see some glaring gaps that could've been better covered and some titles that could've been left out. Galaga? Really? That was a port from Atari. So was Pac-Man.

I noticed Ghosts n Goblins... I wasn't aware that was for the NES, I thought that was a Genesis exclusive.

I also notice Punch Out featuring Mr. Dream instead of Mike Tyson's Punch Out. Then again, not too surprising, all things considered. No one wants to lose an ear.

[Gnoman]

Not a bad list of games, although I see some glaring gaps that could've been better covered and some titles that could've been left out. Galaga? Really? That was a port from Atari. So was Pac-Man.


Those were ports from the arcade originals, and near-perfect ones at that. Galaga was never even available on the Atari (well, it was ported to the 7800, but almost nobody bought one of those), and Atari Pac-man was laughably bad even if it sold well enough on release.

[factotum]

I noticed Ghosts n Goblins... I wasn't aware that was for the NES, I thought that was a Genesis exclusive.


There was a version for the Commodore 64 as well, which had some awesome music on it... :smallwink:

[KillingAScarab]

I noticed Ghosts n Goblins... I wasn't aware that was for the NES, I thought that was a Genesis exclusive.Ghosts 'N Goblins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts_%27n_Goblins) had a number of home ports. Ghouls 'N Ghosts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouls_%27n_Ghosts) came later and had a port to the Mega Drive/Genesis. NES Ghosts 'N Goblins is a special category of Nintendo Hard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard). NES Ghosts 'N Goblins seems like what you get when you combine Ninja Gaiden with the North American version of Castlevania III with Legend of Zelda's silver arrows and second quest with less distinct color palettes. Some of its randomness appears to be fixed, according to a run on Speed Demos Archive (http://speeddemosarchive.com/GhostsnGoblins.html).

[Cristo Meyers]

So, kinda on the subject of throwbacks: I've been looking at the list of Virtual Console games for the DS, and there's enough for me to be interested. Does the 2DS have the same access as the New 3DS? I know you have to have the 3DS for some of the SNES VC games, but since the 2DS is about a third of the cost...

[OracleofWuffing]

I also notice Punch Out featuring Mr. Dream instead of Mike Tyson's Punch Out. Then again, not too surprising, all things considered. No one wants to lose an ear.
I would hazard a guess that Nintendo's decision made in 1990 was not affected by an incident that occurred in 1997. That said? I'm now picturing an "updated" Mike Tyson's Punch Out!! with his graphics updated to match his current appearance. Maybe a bit of silliness from his recent animated series, too. Wouldn't happen directly from Nintendo, but now that's an entertaining thought in my head.


Those were ports from the arcade originals, and near-perfect ones at that.
Too bad we can't say that about Bubble Bobble. I mean, any Bubble Bobble is good Bubble Bobble, but still!


So, kinda on the subject of throwbacks: I've been looking at the list of Virtual Console games for the DS, and there's enough for me to be interested. Does the 2DS have the same access as the New 3DS? I know you have to have the 3DS for some of the SNES VC games, but since the 2DS is about a third of the cost...
2DS has the same access as a 3DS, but not a New 3DS. The SNES Virtual Console games are for a New 3DS, and cannot be played on a 3DS or 2DS. Emphasis added because I think we all agree the naming convention was silly and this stuff should be made as clear as possible.

[Cristo Meyers]

2DS has the same access as a 3DS, but not a New 3DS. The SNES Virtual Console games are for a New 3DS, and cannot be played on a 3DS or 2DS. Emphasis added because I think we all agree the naming convention was silly and this stuff should be made as clear as possible.

Yeah, that's what I figured. Dang.

Ah well, it's all theoretical right now anyway. Thanks.

[KillingAScarab]

2DS has the same access as a 3DS, but not a New 3DS. The SNES Virtual Console games are for a New 3DS, and cannot be played on a 3DS or 2DS. Emphasis added because I think we all agree the naming convention was silly and this stuff should be made as clear as possible.


Yeah, that's what I figured. Dang.

Ah well, it's all theoretical right now anyway. Thanks.This is somewhat bizarre to me, since the Ambassadors received GBA games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_games_for_Nintendo_3DS_%28 North_America%29#Nintendo_Game_Boy_Advance) for owning the launch model.

Given the list of what is available through the Virtual Console (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_games), though, the only thing that a limited emulator competes on is price. Even then, there are some competitive offerings. Someone posted above complaining about the lack of Mega Man, but if you own any model in the 3DS line you can purchase the Mega Man Legacy Collection (http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_Man_Legacy_Collection) for a lower cost than the NES Classic. You just can't plug an NES controller into a 3DS, but the NES Classic Controllers look like they will be compatible (http://www.polygon.com/2016/7/14/12189508/mini-nes-classic-controller) with the Wii or WiiU.

[Gnoman]

This is somewhat bizarre to me, since the Ambassadors received GBA games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_games_for_Nintendo_3DS_%28 North_America%29#Nintendo_Game_Boy_Advance) for owning the launch model.



A GBA is less powerful than an SNES in every way except raw CPU speed. All of the SNES games ported to the GBA were rewritten for the lower-resolution screen and lower-grade audio rather than being emulated. More importantly, the SNES used a 16-bit variant of the venerable 6502 microprocessor ( a 4-bit version of which ran the Atari 2600 and 8-bit versions ran the NES, the Commodore 64, and Apple II computers), while GBA and up used ARM chips. For technical reasons, emulating a completely different processor is much more power-intensive than doing the same with an older version of the processor you're using.

[factotum]

( a 4-bit version of which ran the Atari 2600

That sounded odd to me, so I looked it up--the 2600 used a 6507 CPU, which is basically the same as the 8-bit 6502 but in a cheaper 28-pin package rather than the usual 40-pin one; they managed that by removing some of the address and interrupt lines. The CPU itself was still a full 8-bit one but it could only physically access 8kB of memory.

[Traab]

I actually have the sega setup with the games. I will probably nab the nintendo one as well, but im already picturing misery and hatred with ghosts and goblins and castlevania. /shudder. Zelda will be fun to play again. I had it on my game cube way back in the day, I still have my original map of the game that came with the console version with all the secret spots labeled. Every bush you can burn, every secret cave, every heart container, etc etc etc. And of course the path through the lost woods. I remember kid icarus as a game that I cheated the hell out of. It was something like the password screen filled with one upper case then all lower case of a single letter sending you to the last level with all the items. Castlevania has some bad memories, I was playing that at my grandpas house when he died. :smallfrown:

[Starwulf]

I think the two major games that are missing from this(one of them already mentioned) that would make this a guaranteed buy(honestly, I plan on finding a way to scrape up $60 anyways) for me, would be to add Dragon Warrior, and Milon's Secret Castle. Dragon warrior because it's such a classic game, and has only been re-released once ever, and that was on an original gameboy cart. Milon's Secret Castle simply because it is just about my most favorite(ist!!, lol) NES game of all time. I had so much fun with that game when I was a kid, would love to play it again.

[Zevox]

I think the two major games that are missing from this(one of them already mentioned) that would make this a guaranteed buy(honestly, I plan on finding a way to scrape up $60 anyways) for me, would be to add Dragon Warrior, and Milon's Secret Castle. Dragon warrior because it's such a classic game, and has only been re-released once ever, and that was on an original gameboy cart. Milon's Secret Castle simply because it is just about my most favorite(ist!!, lol) NES game of all time. I had so much fun with that game when I was a kid, would love to play it again.
The original Dragon Quest (Warrior) at the very least also had a release on the Gameboy Color. It was a two-game cartridge with Dragon Quest 2 also on it, but still.

[KillingAScarab]

A GBA is less powerful than an SNES in every way except raw CPU speed. All of the SNES games ported to the GBA were rewritten for the lower-resolution screen and lower-grade audio rather than being emulated. More importantly, the SNES used a 16-bit variant of the venerable 6502 microprocessor ( a 4-bit version of which ran the Atari 2600 and 8-bit versions ran the NES, the Commodore 64, and Apple II computers), while GBA and up used ARM chips. For technical reasons, emulating a completely different processor is much more power-intensive than doing the same with an older version of the processor you're using.The approach to coding the emulator also makes a difference. bsnes/Higan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higan_%28emulator%29) is an emulator which absolutely chugged on a desktop system from 10 years ago the last time I tried it, but Snes9x (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snes9x) would run just fine.


I actually have the sega setup with the games. I will probably nab the nintendo one as well, but im already picturing misery and hatred with ghosts and goblins and castlevania. /shudder.
...
Castlevania has some bad memories, I was playing that at my grandpas house when he died. :smallfrown:I would view that as motivation to take revenge on Dracula, or at least Death.

[Olinser]

I think the two major games that are missing from this(one of them already mentioned) that would make this a guaranteed buy(honestly, I plan on finding a way to scrape up $60 anyways) for me, would be to add Dragon Warrior, and Milon's Secret Castle. Dragon warrior because it's such a classic game, and has only been re-released once ever, and that was on an original gameboy cart. Milon's Secret Castle simply because it is just about my most favorite(ist!!, lol) NES game of all time. I had so much fun with that game when I was a kid, would love to play it again.

Definitely agree.

For me the classic games of my childhood on the NES were - Gauntlet, BattleToads, Zelda, StarTropics, Final Fantasy, Metroid, Contra, DuckTales, Mega Man, Crystalis, TMNT 2, and Super Mario Bros 3 (I had the first 2 but that was far and away the best). Those are the games I remember just spending endless hours on.

[Sensei_Guy]

Looking forward to this. although disapointed I didn't see bomberman on that list.

[Forbiddenwar]

I'd be one of those guys who would say "Meh, if I wanted to replay those games, I'd just turn on my original NES"

But the facts are while I have the original games and the NES, time and progress has not been good to them. Time: The battery life of the cartridges necessary for saving games is starting to show (ever tried to complete Final Fantasy in one sitting? Or Zelda? I have, twice, I dont need to do that again.)
For progress, I don't have a screen left that the console can plug in to.

So color me interested. I'd just wish it came with Megaman 3, TMNT2 and Immortal, and wrath of the black manta. You know, the ones I grew up with and still own.

[Anteros]

My first thought is that these already exist. My second thought is that if I wanted to emulate a 20 year old game, I would just do it without paying them for it. My last thought is that maybe some of my friends would enjoy having this in their house if it looks like an original Nintendo.

Basically I don't see this doing well except to a very niche market, but it's not like it's a big risk or investment from Nintendo (do they even make those?).

[Olinser]

I'd be one of those guys who would say "Meh, if I wanted to replay those games, I'd just turn on my original NES"

But the facts are while I have the original games and the NES, time and progress has not been good to them. Time: The battery life of the cartridges necessary for saving games is starting to show (ever tried to complete Final Fantasy in one sitting? Or Zelda? I have, twice, I dont need to do that again.)
For progress, I don't have a screen left that the console can plug in to.

So color me interested. I'd just wish it came with Megaman 3, TMNT2 and Immortal, and wrath of the black manta. You know, the ones I grew up with and still own.

Haha Wrath of the Black Manta, I'd forgotten about that game until you said it. I still remember thinking 'Tiny' was a funny name for a giant boss.

Ah, time has not been good to that cliché :smallfrown:

[Sharoth]

I want this. I do not won a Nintendo DS plus I can hook this up to the big screen. A win win situation for me. Is there any idea as to the price of this?

[Blackhawk748]

Not worth the price over just using the real console and a CRT (or just modding the real console with HDMI, which has been done), plus it is so ugly it makes me want to vomit.

I use a Retron 3, which i got for like 40 bucks. Their newest version is like 150 and it also plays SNES, Super Famicom, Genesis, Mega Drive, Famicom, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, and GBA games. So it does freakin everything.

[KillingAScarab]

I'm amused that there are people on Twitter who recognize that the Zapper would not work with new display technology, but are asking for Nintendo to find a way to make Duck Hunt available again... when they already did that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Play). Anyway, Gumshoe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumshoe_%28video_game%29) is is a much more ridiculous Zapper game.


I want this. I do not won a Nintendo DS plus I can hook this up to the big screen. A win win situation for me. Is there any idea as to the price of this?Per the article and the official site (http://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic), the MSRP will be 59.99 USD. I haven't noticed a quote for a second/separate NES Classic Controller, yet.

[Kish]

The article says second/subsequent controllers are currently estimated at $10.

[Gnoman]

I use a Retron 3, which i got for like 40 bucks. Their newest version is like 150 and it also plays SNES, Super Famicom, Genesis, Mega Drive, Famicom, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, and GBA games. So it does freakin everything.

The Retrons use emulators, and not very good ones at that. More than a few games don't work at all (Castlevania III, for example, is often cited as being incompatible) and there are a lot of graphics glitches. Meanwhile you can get most of the actual hardware for not much more than it costs, and those work perfectly.

EDIT: Research suggests that the Retron V, at least, also adds about 100ms input lag on top of whatever you're getting from the TV (which can be fairly significant to begin with. If I could get a clear recording of my TVs I could demonstrate this), making it hands-down the absolute worst way to play anything except RPGs.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Here in Russia, various knockoff "Dendy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendy_%28console%29)" (such was the name of the particular NES variant here way back when) and Mega Drive consoles with anywhere from 20 to 300 preinstalled games are all over the place. It seems to me that Nintendo is just doing a sensible thing - if stuff like this sells at all, then an official, high-quality version at a reasonable price will sell just fine. The difference of course being, that these knockoffs are still as functional as their respective consoles, though good luck actually finding working cartridges for them.

[Olinser]

Here in Russia, various knockoff "Dendy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendy_%28console%29)" (such was the name of the particular NES variant here way back when) and Mega Drive consoles with anywhere from 20 to 300 preinstalled games are all over the place. It seems to me that Nintendo is just doing a sensible thing - if stuff like this sells at all, then an official, high-quality version at a reasonable price will sell just fine. The difference of course being, that these knockoffs are still as functional as their respective consoles, though good luck actually finding working cartridges for them.

As with a lot of things, as long as the official version is reasonably priced for the content a lot of people are willing to pay the company for the games.

A big reason emulators got so big was there was simply no way to get the games legitimately because the consoles weren't being made anymore.

[KillingAScarab]

The article says second/subsequent controllers are currently estimated at $10.Ah, thanks. That doesn't seem like a bad price, though we'll see what the build quality will be like.


The Retrons use emulators, and not very good ones at that. More than a few games don't work at all (Castlevania III, for example, is often cited as being incompatible) and there are a lot of graphics glitches. Meanwhile you can get most of the actual hardware for not much more than it costs, and those work perfectly.

EDIT: Research suggests that the Retron V, at least, also adds about 100ms input lag on top of whatever you're getting from the TV (which can be fairly significant to begin with. If I could get a clear recording of my TVs I could demonstrate this), making it hands-down the absolute worst way to play anything except RPGs.Previous version of the RetroN consoles were hardware and firmware only. Having software in the mix with the RetroN 5 means they can potentially improve. I also see that they built in the ability to apply IPS patches... which people are using to make "patches" of entire ROM files. Being able to use your original controllers is a plus.

As for compatibility on the NES Classic, I see Super Mario Bros. 3 listed. We'll see how well the performance is, but SMB3 had an additional memory mapper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_management_controller) on the cartridge, which was the reason why some games pose compatibility problems when played with the system-on-a-chip NES clones. For Castlevania III, or more specifically its original Japanese release: Akumajō Densetsu, it used an add-on chip which gave it three more sound channels, the VRC6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_management_controller#VRC6). The other releases just used an MMC5. Everything with a Virtual Console port already will probably be fine.