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View Full Version : DM Help A Question About Fiends.



Kosj
2016-07-14, 06:54 PM
So, something's been puzzling me recently and I'm interested to see if anyone knows more about it than I do, or has theories as to why it is the case.

Specifically, I'm wondering why most (if not all) types of Fiends in D&D have the ability to summon more fiends. If anyone can shed some light on the reasons behind this I'd be most appreciative.

Yuki Akuma
2016-07-14, 06:59 PM
It's usually specifically Baatezu and Tanar'ri that can summon other members of their race, due to the fact that those two races have a built in social hierarchy. Other, more generic fiends are usually on their own.

As for why they can do this... see 'built in social hierarchy' and combine with 'beings explicitly made from psychic and magical energy'. The power of belief is a strong one when the Outer Planes are concerned.

Pit Fiend: I'm powerful. I should have a minion. I do not have a minion. Therefore, I order the minion I should have to appear and serve me!
*PUFF OF LOGIC*
Lesser Tanar'ri Of Some Sort: I am here, master!

ExLibrisMortis
2016-07-14, 07:11 PM
Devils explicitly make deals with other devils, and these favours, contracts etc. can be traded. More powerful fiends tend to be owed more favours, all the way up to Asmodeus, who's still cashing in on creating the whole Hell-setup in the first place. A threatened devil may call in a favour to save its life. Usually, the description tells you whether it's likely or unlikely to do so.

TheCountAlucard
2016-07-15, 08:37 AM
-snip-Pit fiends don't summon tanar'ri - they summon baatezu. :smallwink:

Yora
2016-07-15, 08:53 AM
98 blue and gray slaad at the door, 98 blue and gray slaad. You take one down, they gate in two more, 99 blue and gray slaad at the door.

Thrudd
2016-07-15, 10:43 AM
They aren't actually "summoning" them in the sense of summon spells. They are opening a gate to their planes, and their buddies come out. Creating gates to hell or the abyss is how devils and demons get around, back and forth between their home planes and the material plane and other places. The bigger the devil, the bigger the buddies will be.

Yuki Akuma
2016-07-15, 11:39 AM
Pit fiends don't summon tanar'ri - they summon baatezu. :smallwink:

Sh.

I always get Balors and Pit Fiends mixed up.

Âmesang
2016-07-15, 01:49 PM
They aren't actually "summoning" them in the sense of summon spells. They are opening a gate to their planes, and their buddies come out. Creating gates to hell or the abyss is how devils and demons get around, back and forth between their home planes and the material plane and other places. The bigger the devil, the bigger the buddies will be.
*puts on pedant glasses* In 3rd Edition they are summoning them akin to the summon monster spells, except for percentage chance of success and the fear of being beholden to the ones whom they summon. The summon only lasts for one hour and, presumably, death for them is more like waking up from a bad dream actual death for a called creature.

I'm reminded of hordlings who are like the opposite of this; not only can they not summon each other, but others can only summon one-at-a-time… at least while on a Material Plane, or if they have the Bringer of Doom.

RickAllison
2016-07-15, 02:04 PM
*puts on pedant glasses* In 3rd Edition they are summoning them akin to the summon monster spells, except for percentage chance of success and the fear of being beholden to the ones whom they summon. The summon only lasts for one hour and, presumably, death for them is more like waking up from a bad dream actual death for a called creature.

I'm reminded of hordlings who are like the opposite of this; not only can they not summon each other, but others can only summon one-at-a-time… at least while on a Material Plane, or if they have the Bringer of Doom.

Well, isn't a devil killed outside of the hells just going to revive back in them?

Thrudd
2016-07-15, 02:05 PM
*puts on pedant glasses* In 3rd Edition they are summoning them akin to the summon monster spells, except for percentage chance of success and the fear of being beholden to the ones whom they summon. The summon only lasts for one hour and, presumably, death for them is more like waking up from a bad dream actual death for a called creature.

I'm reminded of hordlings who are like the opposite of this; not only can they not summon each other, but others can only summon one-at-a-time… at least while on a Material Plane, or if they have the Bringer of Doom.

Oh they are? In 1e they all say "may cast Gate 3 times a day, x% chance of 1-3 demons/devils of whatever type appearing" or something similar.

AslanCross
2016-07-15, 06:43 PM
Metagame answer: They're meant to be "boss monsters" and are supposed to be harder for their CR, so summoning minions helps level out action economy against adventurer parties.

Yora
2016-07-16, 04:50 AM
CR is supposed to indicate strength. When you make it stronger the CR is supposed to go up to reflect that. Though in practice it doesn't work anyway, so that's a moot point.

Darth Ultron
2016-07-16, 10:58 AM
I can think of a couple reasons:

1.Back up. This makes even more sense if your using the Blood War or other conflicts. Fiends are altered a creation/made that way to call for back up if needed. This way no fiend is alone.

2.Servants. Fiends, by their very nature need fools to boss around. And there might not be fools around all the time. So they have taken steps to be able to summon some if needed.

3.Foot in the Door. Fiends want to invade the Prime, but can't freely enter it (at least by older Planescape rules). But if they can get to the Prime...they can summon more to make a foothold.

4.Deals. This is the most colorful one. Fiends are always making deals and/or jockeying for power. Some times you win, some times you loose. And when you loose, you have to ''agree to be summoned by the demon Zxardic for one year and be his slave.'' And lesser fiends can trade service for things too, as might a greater one do in reverse.

5.Punishment. There is a ''valley of summons'' or such somewhere. A fiend that has done something ''wrong'' is sent there to ''be a summoned toy'' for a time. It also works with ''a place where fiends that were dumb enough to get killed out there somewhere reform''.