Sorcerer: A Quick Touch-Up (PEACH)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I’ve noticed a lot of people have an issue with the Sorcerer as it exists in the PHB. Usually this is related to their small spells known, or the fact that Wizards seem to be able to cast more often which, to a player of an older edition, seems awfully bass dwackwards.

So, I propose a simple fix.

1) Sorcerous Restoration: At 5th level, you recover 2 Sorcery Points whenever you finish a short rest. At 9th, 13th, and 17th level this number increases by 2 to a total of 8 points.
2) Sorcerer Supreme: At 20th level you become a source of incredible power and a wielder of magic unparalleled. Select a single Metamagic Option. You may use this one without paying its typical Sorcery Point Cost.

I mean, outside of that, you could add simple weapon proficiency if you prefer that flavor, though I understand it isn’t for everyone, or you could assign some bonus spells ala Unearthed Arcana Stormborn Sorcerer. I don't put much stock in WoTC's class building guidelines considering all their UA Sorcerers have had bonus spells despite them saying this was a bad idea, so adding bonus spells should be seriously considered.

What do we think of this?

[zeek0]

I’ve noticed a lot of people have an issue with the Sorcerer as it exists in the PHB. Usually this is related to their small spells known, or the fact that Wizards seem to be able to cast more often which, to a player of an older edition, seems awfully bass dwackwards.

So, I propose a simple fix.

1) Sorcerous Restoration: At 5th level, you recover 2 Sorcery Points whenever you finish a short rest. At 9th, 13th, and 17th level this number increases by 2 to a total of 8 points.
2) Sorcerer Supreme: At 20th level you become a source of incredible power and a wielder of magic unparalleled. Select a single Metamagic Option. You may use this one without paying its typical Sorcery Point Cost.

I mean, outside of that, you could add simple weapon proficiency if you prefer that flavor, though I understand it isn’t for everyone, or you could assign some bonus spells ala Unearthed Arcana Stormborn Sorcerer. I don't put much stock in WoTC's class building guidelines considering all their UA Sorcerers have had bonus spells despite them saying this was a bad idea, so adding bonus spells should be seriously considered.

What do we think of this?

(As a thanks for your replies to my thread...)

Here's my thoughts on those adjustments:

1. I think it is odd to pin a sorcerer's effectiveness to both short rests and long rests. It also seems to me that, if I had more sorcery points available, then I would be able to use metamagic on almost every spell I cast.

Assume I am level 5. I am able to cast 9 total spells a day. On average, I will have 9 sorcery points each day. So, as long as I spend only 1 sorcery point on each spell, I can do it for every spell I cast. I think that the 'fun' of sorcery points is that you need to choose when to use them, not which to use each time you cast a spell.

2. I know that capstones are meant to be powerful, but Sorcerer Supreme is outrageous, mostly because of Twinned Spell. But again, it means that it negates the resource management / forced choices that the sorcerer encourages.


However, I think that your closing comments hold great promise. Lets look at the stated problems again:

1) Sorcerers should know more spells.

2) Sorcerers should be able to cast more spells/day.


My opinion is that adding some bonus spells is the solution to this. This would mean that they have more spells to cast, but they are only of their subclass theme. This fits with both Favored Soul and the Storm Sorcerer - both strong options, but not too unreasonable.

The Draconic Bloodline becomes a problem - can we get dragon themed spells?

Wild Magic is difficult as well - do we simply choose arcany sorts of magic?

I'd like to have a conversation about what you think.

[DracoKnight]

The Draconic Bloodline becomes a problem - can we get dragon themed spells?

Wild Magic is difficult as well - do we simply choose arcany sorts of magic?

I'd like to have a conversation about what you think.

I've personally started tackling a list for all Sorcs to gets as bonus spells. I've completed the WMSorc's, and I'm most of the way through the Dragon and Storm Sorc. I can link them here, if you want.

[Amnoriath]

I’ve noticed a lot of people have an issue with the Sorcerer as it exists in the PHB. Usually this is related to their small spells known, or the fact that Wizards seem to be able to cast more often which, to a player of an older edition, seems awfully bass dwackwards.

So, I propose a simple fix.

1) Sorcerous Restoration: At 5th level, you recover 2 Sorcery Points whenever you finish a short rest. At 9th, 13th, and 17th level this number increases by 2 to a total of 8 points.
2) Sorcerer Supreme: At 20th level you become a source of incredible power and a wielder of magic unparalleled. Select a single Metamagic Option. You may use this one without paying its typical Sorcery Point Cost.

I mean, outside of that, you could add simple weapon proficiency if you prefer that flavor, though I understand it isn’t for everyone, or you could assign some bonus spells ala Unearthed Arcana Stormborn Sorcerer. I don't put much stock in WoTC's class building guidelines considering all their UA Sorcerers have had bonus spells despite them saying this was a bad idea, so adding bonus spells should be seriously considered.

What do we think of this?

1. If you are going to have this keep it at a flat rate. Keep in mind spell slots can be sacrificed for points. Ultimately the issue isn't the amount of potential points it is that they are still bound by vancian casting which makes each slot a little painful using this way. I know I said this before but they are the prime candidate for a spell point system and than the sorcery points can just be added.
2. As others have said this makes Twinned or Quicken spell the go to choices and makes it a ridiculous multicaster. Limit it to an option that only costs 1 point and another metamagic choice it should be good.

[Zman]

Ok, my biggest problem is the Sorcerer Supreme taco explosion salad name, it just doesn't feel right, haha.

I don't feel this really does the trick. I support regenning some Sorcery Points on a Short Rest, but IMO the Sorcerer needs more spells known as well.

In my Tweaks I suggested learning Cha Mod additional spells, regenning 2 Sorcery Points on a Short rest. That number increases to 6 at 20th with Sorcerous Restoration.

Learning all Metamagics is viable in addition.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Wow! I really didn't expect to get so many replies!

Too bad everyone thinks the idea was a steaming pile! :smalltongue:

Okay, let's jump into the general comments. With Sorcerous Restoration, most here seemed to dislike the scaling nature of the new ability. Perhaps A different approach? I was thinking as a new talking point:

Sorcerous Restoration: During a Short Rest, you may exchange any number of Hit Die up to 1/4th of your total (rounded down) to regain an equal number of Sorcery Points. You regain these Hit Die as you normally would.

Another thing to note: It sounds as though many of you agree that Sorcerer would only need a Bloodline-specific number of bonus spells to be on par with the other spellcasters. What are some suggestions for Dragon or Wild Magic Bloodlines? And would this be enough to not require the above alteration at all (assuming it's a sound alteration to begin with)?