BBEG rez'd multiple times, fun or not?

[Sun Elemental]

I'm planning a campaign, and the main expected villain has an ally with True Resurrection and/or Miracle. The ally won't really do anything else important, they're mostly a plot device.
I'm planning on doing the "Villain levels up with PCs" schtick, so he'll be level 1 with them, and so on every two levels or so. He's a Cleric and he'll want to show off every new spell level he gets.
Has anyone else done something like this, either with extreme wealth or an allied divine caster? Did the players like fighting a recurring villain? Was it too annoying?

[daremetoidareyo]

If the general tone is sitcom like, and the running gag is this helper finds ways to rez the bad guy, sometimes even staging diversions for the PCs to get time to petition gods in person to rez the bad guy, that could be fun. Like if the helper has the gumption and know how to get stuff done, but his boss just constantly dies to the PCs, that is funny. Another option is to give him clones of the bbeg in vats that he unleashes every time the bbeg fails...

[Gildedragon]

Don't do rez... Do Last Breath (like reincarnate but no level loss)
It is more... Quirky if the villain's physical ability and form changes from encounter to encounter

[sleepyphoenixx]

It depends a lot on your players preferred style, the group makeup and your players experience.
It's a fine line to balance between "that persistent bugger that just won't die/stay dead" and "the DM will just fiat it so he survives". The first makes for a memorable antagonist. The second not so much.

There are ways to stop someone from being resurrected, even with Miracle,,and i imagine your players will want to deal with your BBEG like that some time.
But they have to actually know it's possible and have someone in the group capable of doing it eventually, or they're just going to end up frustrated.

In any case i'd try to vary his survival gambits instead of always having him resurrected. True Resurrection is expensive, and nobody is going to waste one on a level 3 dude. Save that for later when they're higher level, and only if you have to. Keep it plausible.
A low level villain can easily escape just with a smokestick and potion of Expeditious Retreat. Then ramp it up as they raise in levels.
Invisibility, Dimension Door, contingent teleports or Plane Shift, dominated body doubles, Etherealness, Astral Seed, Mind Switch... the possibilities are practically endless.

The important thing is to keep his constant escapes believable. Let the players find out how he survived if they try, then do something different the next time.
Just going "This level 17th cleric spends 25k gp every time for no practical reason" won't fly if you want to keep your players engaged.

[TheFurith]

I'm planning a campaign, and the main expected villain has an ally with True Resurrection and/or Miracle. The ally won't really do anything else important, they're mostly a plot device.
I'm planning on doing the "Villain levels up with PCs" schtick, so he'll be level 1 with them, and so on every two levels or so. He's a Cleric and he'll want to show off every new spell level he gets.
Has anyone else done something like this, either with extreme wealth or an allied divine caster? Did the players like fighting a recurring villain? Was it too annoying?

Having a recurring enemy can be a great idea, if done right. An enemy that is more than just fodder, or more than just the final encounter. If done wrong, he's just the DM's favorite toy that he won't let die.

Vary the ways in which he doesn't die. Not just always corpse on the floor dead and comes back no matter what. Space out direct encounters, but perhaps find ways to remind the players he's close by. If they actually figure a way to finish him off for good, let them do it. Above everything else though, if your players seem genuinely annoyed because that same guy is back again, you might want to make it the last time around that time. If not done in a way that the players are enjoying it could get played out really fast.

[Quertus]

This is a plan doomed to failure.

If you plan to have him escape, eventually, the dice will be against you, and he will die.

If the level 1 (!) BBEG dies, and is brought back to life, expect the party to cry foul. Who resurrects a level 1 fod?

Even If it is clearly established that the BBEG has a big (or little!) brother or sister who happens to be an epic level Arcane Spellcaster / Tainted Sorcerer*, to allow for free use of True Resurrection, you still have the issue that there are ways to prevent resurrection. What if the second (or even first!) time that the party encounters the BBEG, they decide that they never want to see him again? There goes all your clever plans.

It is, therefore, far better to simply have the concept for the BBEG as someone who believes in cheating death, but not plan on him being resurrected.

Also, to metagame slightly, view your party's reaction, and allow that to help determine how much they want to keep fighting this guy. You don't want "fighting him was the worst thing I've ever had to sit through", but also not "fighting him once was awesome... but them you ruined it by making him a recurring villain". You're aiming for something in the middle.

* bonus points if it's Good or Law taint, and the sibling puts family first / believes all people deserve a chance at redemption / whatever makes them "something that the party won't want to murder".

[Renen]

I'd say resurrect him like 2-3 times tops.
1st time he resurrects fine.
2nd time he resurrects as an awakened rat
And 3rd time he resurrects as a skeleton.

[Sun Elemental]

If the general tone is sitcom like, and the running gag is this helper finds ways to rez the bad guy, sometimes even staging diversions for the PCs to get time to petition gods in person to rez the bad guy, that could be fun. Like if the helper has the gumption and know how to get stuff done, but his boss just constantly dies to the PCs, that is funny. Another option is to give him clones of the bbeg in vats that he unleashes every time the bbeg fails...

Not quite. To be exactly specific, the villain is a Cleric of an obscure NE minor goddess that I inserted into the Greek pantheon. He is pretty much her only follower.
The ally is the goddess. I figure even a rank 1 god has True Res and Miracle on a daily basis. She wants revenge on the other gods, they're forgotten about her, and she has almost no followers. She can't do anything more significant that 'recycling' her pawn because it might draw the gods' attention.

But it will be sitcomy compared to the other campaign theme, which is important and I didn't realize until you said that. The other theme involves the aftermath of a massive war, where Elves and Humans almost wipe out the Drow, and force them into a Trail of Tears / internment camps situation. Lotta racism and oppression, heavy stuff.


It is more... Quirky if the villain's physical ability and form changes from encounter to encounter

Uh... examples? Appearance is a kinda important part of the villain's persona. He's very vain, even campy. His theme music is the Unexpected John Cena riff for crying out loud.


Just going "This level 17th cleric spends 25k gp every time for no practical reason" won't fly if you want to keep your players engaged.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. Does "This extremely minor evil goddess spends a SLA every time to keep her only cleric alive" sound better?


there are ways to prevent resurrection.

I mentioned Miracle because the ally would use it to undo anything like that.


What if the second (or even first!) time that the party encounters the BBEG, they decide that they never want to see him again? There goes all your clever plans.
How so? Players refuse to play the game anymore? Characters refuse to interact with the villain?

[Gildedragon]

Starts off as elf, returns as a gnome, returns as a half elf, a minotaur, a lizard man...
Puts on masks and stuff to maintain a visage

[sleepyphoenixx]

Giving an enemy a goddess as a direct ally is a bad idea. It absolutely reeks of DM fiat.
If you absolutely need that goddess in your campaign as an antagonist you're probably better off with fanatic cultists that there always seem to be a few more of.
Trying to establish a recurring villain this way is doomed to failure because your players have no way to actually do anything about it. Players hate that.

If you want a recurring villain and have your players accept it you want him to be a magnificent bastard.
Someone they can't help but respect for his cunning even if they hate his guts because he just. won't. die.
But you need to give your players a sense that they can win, if they're smart/tricky/lucky enough.

This can of course backfire if you have bad luck with rolls (assuming you can't/don't want to fudge rolls for the sake of story), but you can minimize that chance with good planning.
It's always a danger in PnP. It's a game, not a novel, so as a DM you always have to be ready to adapt.

Also Quertus makes a good point. If your players get genuinely annoyed at him and stop having fun let him stay dead.

[mabriss lethe]

You could also play it for the feels. Give him some connection to one of the players and make his continued resurrections more and more hellish and forced a la Helbram from Seven Deadly Sins dialed up to 11.

After the first rez or two he still seems pretty much normal, but he slowly starts degrading, become physically warped by the power forcing him back to life while his sanity erodes from one iteration to the next. In the end, you want his final death to be a mercy that he begs for.

[Jack_Simth]

Depends on the enemy, the players, and how you pull it off. If the players "like" the villain and you use actual (and feasibly interruptable, with some work) mechanics to bring him back, then it's probably fine.

If the players don't "like" the villain, and/or you fiat it, the players are very likely to get frustrated and annoyed. As a player, I once had a recurring opponent (a devil, reformed when slain), whom we eventually stoned, ground to pebbles, then dropped in a permanent antimagic field we'd found previously. THAT stopped him.

[Telok]

I'd say start with a permanent Regeneration spell on the guy, perhaps a template that offers resistance to fire. It's less difficult than resurrection and should last through level six unless you have genera savvy anti-rez extremists. At level six the baddy takes Leadership and invests in a couple Teleport spells, that should keep him alive untill 9th or so, especially if he has half decent spell resistance. At that point his followers should be able to buffer his escape plans and raise him from the dead as long as they can keep hie corpse away from the party. An invisible demon/devil ought to do with it's teleport ability and readied actions. By level 12 have the goddess give him a loyal Nightmare, possibly replacing his Leadership cohort. Astral Projection will keep him going unless the party decides to hunt him down and finish him permanently.

[Arbane]

Just going "This level 17th cleric spends 25k gp every time for no practical reason" won't fly if you want to keep your players engaged.

It also raises the obvious question "why doesn't the level 17 person just squash the puny PCs themselves?

[Gildedragon]

It also raises the obvious question "why doesn't the level 17 person just squash the puny PCs themselves?

It could always be a 17th level only in special Conditions like the lolipope

[Sun Elemental]

Quertus and sleepyphoenixx convinced me, no multiple resurrections from a god. I also talked to a player, they agreed that it'd be too railroady. We kinda compared it to Voldemort's Horcruxes, because at least those could be destroyed 1 by 1 for a sense of progress.

So now my plan is to just have the villain be a set level, probably 13-17, whatever is the max level. He'll have a small but widespread cult, creepy guys like Lovecraftian cultists. The minor goddess will still exist, but she'll be as influential as every other god... just granting Cleric spells.

I still have a plan for getting a "recurring bad guy that you stab to death", so he can abuse his theme song, catch phrases, etc. It'll be like how the dude in Mass Effect did his ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thing, so you were fighting him constantly, but in a minion's body. Or how Agents in The Matrix jack into civilians. sleepyphoenixx even mentioned mind switches and body doubles. If I need stats it'd be a modded long range, friendly-only Magic Jar.

[Jay R]

I'm planning a campaign, and the main expected villain has an ally with True Resurrection and/or Miracle. The ally won't really do anything else important, they're mostly a plot device.
I'm planning on doing the "Villain levels up with PCs" schtick, so he'll be level 1 with them, and so on every two levels or so. He's a Cleric and he'll want to show off every new spell level he gets.
Has anyone else done something like this, either with extreme wealth or an allied divine caster? Did the players like fighting a recurring villain? Was it too annoying?

I would recommend letting him die, but learning that there was somebody more powerful behind him. Once they're able to take out Darth Vader, don't resurrect Vader; introduce Palpatine.

Perhaps near the end they can find out that the several enemies they've fought and killed have all been the same person. That way, the Resurrections are an important climactic reveal, rather than a constant frustration that they aren't making any progress.

[Arbane]

Perhaps near the end they can find out that the several enemies they've fought and killed have all been the same person. That way, the Resurrections are an important climactic reveal, rather than a constant frustration that they aren't making any progress.

And his name is Agrajag.

[Spore]

Quertus and sleepyphoenixx convinced me, no multiple resurrections from a god. I also talked to a player, they agreed that it'd be too railroady. We kinda compared it to Voldemort's Horcruxes, because at least those could be destroyed 1 by 1 for a sense of progress.

So now my plan is to just have the villain be a set level, probably 13-17, whatever is the max level. He'll have a small but widespread cult, creepy guys like Lovecraftian cultists. The minor goddess will still exist, but she'll be as influential as every other god... just granting Cleric spells.

I still have a plan for getting a "recurring bad guy that you stab to death", so he can abuse his theme song, catch phrases, etc. It'll be like how the dude in Mass Effect did his ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thing, so you were fighting him constantly, but in a minion's body. Or how Agents in The Matrix jack into civilians. sleepyphoenixx even mentioned mind switches and body doubles. If I need stats it'd be a modded long range, friendly-only Magic Jar.

Make sure to stress his importance in the cult. Even if he is only level 1 his words is the only beacon the secret cults have to rally behind. Maybe he is a respected noble (social standing can give all sorts of DM approved situational boni). His importance comes not from skill or devotion (ie. levels) but from pure "being him".

Even a minor goddess will pump any energy she has into a single champion of her cause because without him her divine essence will cease to exist. This powerlessness of a god can also explain why she does not stack weird eldritch templates on this HD 1 desaster.

[BWR]

I have had games with recurring villains and the joy we felt when we finally took care of them permanently was palpable. Yes, they were frustrating and annoying at the time but even as we bitched at the GM for letting them get away/come back we couldn't deny that it wasn't anything we would not have done if we had the resources the baddies had. And it comes down to that: if only the PCs get to raise their dead it puts even more strain on the already fragile illusion of verisimilitude the game has. Sure, if every enemy comes back it gets really frustrating and annoying but powerful enemies with the wealth and allies to bring them back not employing such means is just absurd.

If the BBEG has the power and resources and desire to come back, then they should come back, at least a couple of times. Level 1 baddies having these sorts of resources strains credulity, however.
I would be recommend that you do not have your BBEG charge in and die against the PCs and come back at regular intervals just because. Enemies should try to stay alive and if things are going poorly, escape is preferable to capture of death.
Too many deaths is not going to work in the BBEG's favor. The gods (presumably) granting the resurrection magic might not want this idiot to come back to fail yet again. Erstwhile allies/subordinates might want the BBEG out of the way to take over, other rivals might work to keep him dead, maybe he decides it isn't worth coming back yet again, maybe some god or fiend has gotten possession of his soul and enjoys a new chew toy; there are may reasons why baddies won't come back indefinitely.

[Quertus]

I think it's all pretty much been said: player agency, realism, fun. There really needs to be a simple checklist like this for DMs to use.

Kudos on discussing it with your players. :smallsmile:

[Âmesang]

I've contemplated something like this before, but more in a Final Fantasy-ish kind of way; the party defeats the high-level high priest who's body is then immediately resurrected—once—and subsequently possessed by the deity using the proxy rules from Deities and Demigods. If the party manage to defeat a high-level cleric with Rank 1 deific abilities, then the fight's done. :smalltongue:

Or for a more low-level approach have the villain show up in a fair scanty outfit to show off some particular tattoos, then when defeated in a later battle the villain's more clothed… and anyone employing the Search skill will find no tattoos—the "villain" was just a double.

[Gildedragon]

Or play the BB as you would a PC. Have them avoid being killed at first (proxies, intel gathering, running away...) heck have them be another BBs catspaw

But they are smarter than their boss.
PCs kill the BBs boss and BB steps into the leadership position that has just been opened

Either way I'd have the BB be 2 levels higher than the PCs from the get go

Don't just use True Rez: revivify is a good cheap option
I can't stress how useful reincarnate is for this situation: it changes the BBs face, let's them let the PCs think they're dead...

Though their luck may run out and the PCs kill the BB for good-ish
The BB might then return as a ghost or undead under someone else... Leaving the BB trapped in a vault full of vampires perhaps?
Or is let to be hoisted by their own petard after PCs destabilize a summoning ceremony (think hellboy's Elsa and Hecate)

Just watch out for thiannium and khyber dragonshards

[SirNMN]

I'd say start with a permanent Regeneration spell on the guy, perhaps a template that offers resistance to fire. It's less difficult than resurrection and should last through level six unless you have genera savvy anti-rez extremists. At level six the baddy takes Leadership and invests in a couple Teleport spells, that should keep him alive untill 9th or so, especially if he has half decent spell resistance. At that point his followers should be able to buffer his escape plans and raise him from the dead as long as they can keep hie corpse away from the party. An invisible demon/devil ought to do with it's teleport ability and readied actions. By level 12 have the goddess give him a loyal Nightmare, possibly replacing his Leadership cohort. Astral Projection will keep him going unless the party decides to hunt him down and finish him permanently.

I like and may use this at some point

[Âmesang]

On a related note blackguards and other classes allowed a "fiendish servant" can take the Nightmare Steed feat (POLYHEDRON #159 July 2003, page 23) to replace the servant with a nightmare (receiving all of the same bonuses that a fiendish servant would have received).

[Eldariel]

In general, I always assume everyone powerful and important enough to be called a "BBEG" would have at least rudimentary plans for his resurrection should he die (this of course applies for all the good guys as well). Contingent Revivify and Teleport on his body, an auxiliary party ready to cast a resurrection-spell, Clone(s), something of the sort. There are ways to counter this (anything taking the target's soul, such as a Thinaun weapon or various spells/spell comboes), and this lets the players have a reason to do so.

[BearonVonMu]

If your nemesis/enemy keeps getting killed and coming back in various forms, it reminds me of Agrajag from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Gildedragon]

The BBEG could also be a Suel Lich or a possessing fiend

[Typewriter]

There is a template, I believe called Unholy Scion, in which the character becomes aware (and completely evil) while still in the womb. When born the mother becomes completely subservient to the child.

That could potentially be a good starting point for your characters premise - maybe the mother is a high level cleric and the child is an unholy scion who she is bound to bring back every time he dies. I think she'd probably be free of his compulsions when he died, but maybe then she would bring him back just because he's her child. He comes back, she loses control again, etc. etc.

Provides some interesting groundwork for the premise I'd think.

[Tvtyrant]

You could have a Villain's Guild where they buy "life assurance" policies and guild ops resurrect them if they die, and attack people who try to take their souls or otherwise inhibit their resurrection.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Just because I feel his input should be considered....

Red Fel
Red Fel
Red Fel

Thou hast been summoned!

Dear God I hope this works.

[Red Fel]

Just because I feel his input should be considered....

Red Fel
Red Fel
Red Fel

Thou hast been summoned!

Yes?


Dear God I hope this works.

Dear what? ... Oh my me, have you called the wrong one.


I'm planning a campaign, and the main expected villain has an ally with True Resurrection and/or Miracle. The ally won't really do anything else important, they're mostly a plot device.
I'm planning on doing the "Villain levels up with PCs" schtick, so he'll be level 1 with them, and so on every two levels or so. He's a Cleric and he'll want to show off every new spell level he gets.
Has anyone else done something like this, either with extreme wealth or an allied divine caster? Did the players like fighting a recurring villain? Was it too annoying?

Bottom line? It's a form of plot armor. Admittedly, it's slightly more fair than the stereotypical "Nope, turns out you didn't kill him" plot armor, because the villain can die, but you're bringing him back each time, so it has the same net effect - namely, to reduce the feeling of agency the players have. If the villain keeps coming back, it kind of raises the obvious question: Why bother to kill him? Why not search for a way to permanently imprison him or something?

It also raises another question: How does a level 1 villain have access to an ally with True Resurrection and/or Miracle? I mean, at that point, shouldn't the ally be the villain? Someone who can burn that many True Resses has massive resources at his disposal, doesn't he?

My advice is, instead, threefold. First, as I've often said, never introduce a character until you're ready for them to die. The PCs should never encounter the villain until and unless you're prepared for them to kill him with finality. One backsie is acceptable - say the BBEG brings the guy back for one last run-around before the final fight - but multiple is not okay.

Second is an exception to #1: The PCs may encounter a recurring villain prior to a death-ready scene, but only in a situation where action against said villain is incredibly ill-advised, such as a public event where the villain is being celebrated. Killing him there is a bad idea. Caveat: There will still be some PCs who want to try it anyway. While they are likely to fail, if they do succeed, let it happen.

And third, not every villain killed is the villain. Perhaps they kill someone they think is the villain, only to discover that he is some kind of duplicate, his true nature revealed posthumously. Perhaps they kill someone they think is the villain, only to discover that said person was not the villain, but was being puppeted at range. There are many ways to give the PCs a legitimate victory without exposing the villain to permanent harm. Do note, however, that overusing this ploy can lead to a sense of futility that we're trying to avoid here.

In sum: Having a recurring villain can be a great thing. But don't give him plot armor. And giving him a "get out of death free card," regardless of its nature, is plot armor. Giving him a way to escape is great; giving him a pawn to use in his place is nice; but if the PCs legitimately kill him, unless it's already established (or implied, or at the very least probable) that he has a substantial power base sufficient to bring him back, he should stay dead. Now, if he's got the power base - such as strong followers willing and able to bring him back, or the patronage of some powerful figure - then it should be possible to remove that option. If he has a Res-happy ally, the PCs should be able to locate and stop said ally. Basically, if you decide to establish some kind of asset that neutralizes the PCs' killing - and I'd advise against overusing such a thing - you should make it possible, should the PCs so choose, for the PCs to destroy it.

Or just make a Lich.

[Emperor Tippy]

I love resurrecting enemies. Teaches your players to properly handle their foes.

One memorable occasion had a foe who had multiple Craft Contingent True Resurrections on himself. And the room that the fight took place in had Ice Assassin traps in place that would create an Ice Assassin of an individual whenever they were brought back to life with orders to attack the killers. Every death in a twenty four hour period caused an additional Ice Assassin to come up each time.

So first res you fought the original and one Ice Assassin. Second res you fought the original and two Ice Assassins. And so on up until the 20th res.

And my players were saying that I couldn't make them suffer against a non spell-casting Vow of Poverty enemy. Fools =)

[Sapreaver]

Quertus and sleepyphoenixx convinced me, no multiple resurrections from a god. I also talked to a player, they agreed that it'd be too railroady. We kinda compared it to Voldemort's Horcruxes, because at least those could be destroyed 1 by 1 for a sense of progress.

So now my plan is to just have the villain be a set level, probably 13-17, whatever is the max level. He'll have a small but widespread cult, creepy guys like Lovecraftian cultists. The minor goddess will still exist, but she'll be as influential as every other god... just granting Cleric spells.

I still have a plan for getting a "recurring bad guy that you stab to death", so he can abuse his theme song, catch phrases, etc. It'll be like how the dude in Mass Effect did his ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thing, so you were fighting him constantly, but in a minion's body. Or how Agents in The Matrix jack into civilians. sleepyphoenixx even mentioned mind switches and body doubles. If I need stats it'd be a modded long range, friendly-only Magic Jar.

Why not instead of having him be a bbeg why not make it like a rival adventurer just an arrogant cocky mofo Ala blue from pokemon rgby

[OldTrees1]

And my players were saying that I couldn't make them suffer against a non spell-casting Vow of Poverty enemy. Fools =)

How many times did they kill him and how did they finally non-lethally defeat him?

[Eldariel]

By midlevel players really need to realize that killing just isn't very reliable. It's one of the many shifts the game experiences when level 10 draws near (or earlier in higher optimization games), and one of the common things that throws newer players off - magic begins to do fairly ridiculous things but there are no warning labels. With lower level resurrection effects, obliterating the body suffices but once the higher level variants and backup bodies and such enter the equation, it gets a bit trickier. Enemies of that level will have means to bring themselves back but the game is packed with means to make coming back hard - it's just a matter of using them.

The best way, of course, is to use your opponent or their soul (should they have one) as a spell component (Book of Vile Darkness has rules for this - optional component, adds +10 to spell penetration). There's basically no way to come back from that. Also stuff like Unnaming, Aging (disable in a prison on a fast progression plane) and so on is fairly efficient. Either way, once you have a powerful individual who no doubt has the resources to ensure his resurrection should he die in your possession, killing him is the last thing you should do - you should actively keep him alive but unconscious until the soul can be extracted. Even good ol' imprisonment is way more efficient. As a side-effect, the fights become less about who lives or dies and more about who can prevent the other party from coming back.

[Emperor Tippy]

How many times did they kill him and how did they finally non-lethally defeat him?

Oh, the fifth time they just offed him with a Thinaun weapon. Later they used his soul as an XP component in a scroll, to ensure that any returns would be more trouble than they are worth.

[Sun Elemental]

First, wow. This is like my 2nd or 3rd thread, I didn't expect it to reach 2 pages, definitely didn't expect Red Fel and Tippy to chime in.

Second... if you really want to give me advice, don't just read my first post. I changed my plan.

So now my plan is to just have the villain be a set level, probably 13-17, whatever is the max level. He'll have a small but widespread cult, but I want players to hate him personally, hate his catchphrases and theme music, so they need to meet him. He will possess his cultists with a variant Magic Jar that's allied target only, long range. It'll be like how the dude in Mass Effect did his ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thing, or how Agents in The Matrix jack into civilians.
Last, your ideas are awesome, but most are out the window for a (mostly) Core rulebook only Pathfinder game. They're still fun to hear about, and you're also helping other people with advice.


Why not instead of having him be a bbeg why not make it like a rival adventurer just an arrogant cocky mofo Ala blue from pokemon rgby
I don't want a Gary Oak, I want someone more like the Team Rocket Executives from G/S/C/HG/SS. Gary had no connections, no friends, no schemes.

[OldTrees1]

So now my plan is to just have the villain be a set level, probably 13-17, whatever is the max level. He'll have a small but widespread cult, creepy guys like Lovecraftian cultists. The minor goddess will still exist, but she'll be as influential as every other god... just granting Cleric spells.

I still have a plan for getting a "recurring bad guy that you stab to death", so he can abuse his theme song, catch phrases, etc. It'll be like how the dude in Mass Effect did his ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL thing, so you were fighting him constantly, but in a minion's body. Or how Agents in The Matrix jack into civilians. sleepyphoenixx even mentioned mind switches and body doubles. If I need stats it'd be a modded long range, friendly-only Magic Jar.

I feel this works better. You do still want to be aware of and allow tactics that bypass this fencepost security (fencepost security: building a very strong but completely bypassable security). Specifically Magic Jar still puts the mind, soul, and even lifeforce of the BBEG at risk. Modifying the spell to be long range should help protect the BBEG's lifeforce (unless the PCs use forced teleport like Plane Shift). I don't expect your players to immediately use a bypassing tactic but if they eventually do use such a tactic I suggest rolling with the results.

[Bucky]

@Tippy: How did he keep the ice assassins from killing him and then fighting out an escalating conflict between the ice assassins?