PDA

View Full Version : Mass combat



de-trick
2007-07-02, 11:47 PM
in mass combat i see it hard that you could have a army of 100 orcs and a army of 1000 elfs of the same level could win

Kizara
2007-07-02, 11:52 PM
Could you, um, edit your post a bit for clarity?

I don't know what question you are asking.

Diggorian
2007-07-03, 12:25 AM
in mass combat i see it hard that you could have a army of 100 orcs and a army of 1000 elfs of the same level could win

Well ... sure. One lvl 1 orc warrior couldnt beat 10 lvl 1 elf warriors. What's your point?

Lucky
2007-07-03, 01:19 AM
Er... Making sense is a virtue.

ChrisMcDee
2007-07-03, 05:58 AM
If I'm understanding this correctly the OP is asking how an army of 1000 Elves could beat 1000 Orcs, as the fantasy cliché is a small number of Elves winning out against outnumbering Orcs.

If this is the original query I'd say that the Elves you read about won't be 1st level warriors. Due to their long lifespan even your basic Elf soldier is likely to have a few levels under his belt. The waves of Orcs that are being thrown at the elves could be level 1 Warriors or perhaps Barbarians. It's also worth considering the Elves will no doubt be using superior equipment and tactics. This should even things out to allow a small army of Elves to put up a fight against a much larger Orc force.

But hey, I'm really not sure if this was the question...

nerulean
2007-07-03, 06:16 AM
Mass combat in D&D doesn't work anyway. A single level 10 fighter can cleave through as many level 1 mooks as he can reach in six seconds without taking a hit, and with the right PrCs you can take out the whole army in a single round.

Matthew
2007-07-03, 06:25 AM
Only if the army hasn't Readied Attack Actions!

But, yeah, I would hate to have to play D&D 3.x at this sort of scale; it would make even less sense than normal.

ChrisMcDee
2007-07-03, 06:37 AM
Is there a template in one of the books for making an orderly regiment of a certian type of soldier? Similar to how you can create a swarm or mob. I'm not sure if a mob would cover it, as that was intended for creating riots and stampedes, from what I remember.

Suddenly that unit of human spearmen isn't queue of Level 1 Warriors waiting to get cleaved, it's a high HD monster with a tonne of attacks. This would be great for simulating army vs army as well as army vs hero.

This may already exist in Tome of Battle, though, if my memory serves.

Starsinger
2007-07-03, 07:00 AM
If I'm understanding this correctly the OP is asking how an army of 1000 Elves could beat 1000 Orcs, as the fantasy cliché is a small number of Elves winning out against outnumbering Orcs.

Since this was much easier to make sense of, I'll go with answering this almost question. My guess would be composite longbows, 110 foot range increment... shoot as many orcs as possible until they get within melee range, then hope you took weapon finesse and draw your rapiers.

Dant
2007-07-03, 11:45 AM
I know that the DMG2 has rules for creating mobs. That book has some fairly neat stuff in it.

I think the OP might be putting 100 elves against 1000 orcs maybe? The answer is archers and the elves fighting on home turf.

TheLogman
2007-07-03, 01:33 PM
The Mini's handbooks has some great stuff for regiment combat, as well as massive battles. I once did a battle of sorts, pitting around 100 level 3 and 4 men against 20 men of 7th level or higher, the 20 guys pulled ahead easily, cutting down 1 every turn, and then the mages vaporized everything.

Dairun Cates
2007-07-03, 02:04 PM
Everything always comes down to tactics. It's just the tactics are generally easier with more people and more talent. Still, a lot of major wars have been won with small numbers and better tactics.

Rofl-Falafal
2007-07-03, 03:14 PM
Has anyone noticed that there aren't rules for shooting arrows into a crowd? :smallconfused: Could you even pick out a single target in a swarming mass of 1000 orcs? I know I would just fire at the crowd as a whole, not try to hit one specific guy. Just a thought.

Raum
2007-07-03, 04:41 PM
Has anyone noticed that there aren't rules for shooting arrows into a crowd? :smallconfused: Could you even pick out a single target in a swarming mass of 1000 orcs? I know I would just fire at the crowd as a whole, not try to hit one specific guy. Just a thought.
There are published rules for both indirect arrow fire and mass combat. At least two sets I know of, one in Heroes of Battle and the second in Miniatures Handbook though it is arguably a different game.

Dairun Cates
2007-07-03, 04:45 PM
Mass combat is best done with a lot of creativity and taken with a grain of salt. It's usually best to treat the mass as a number such as morale and then allow the players to affect that number. I've had to run mass combat a couple of times, and most of the battle was won before it started. Although, the next time a player goes up to the opposing general on 5 tons of rock hovering in the air and tries to mind-control him, he IS getting riddled with arrows.