Stranger Things

[Lombard]

Thought I'd give it a try and next thing I knew it was morning lol. Surprisingly well-crafted story with enough potential allegorical avenues to satisfy the average dabbler in deep thinking. Ooh and a good amount of D&D references! And 80's! Would recommend.

The cons were some scenes that felt a bit too derivative but they were spaced out well enough. Maybe those were just meant to be a nostalgia hammer I dunno. Still the writers made the story their own despite the 80's blender.

[JoshL]

About halfway through and loving it. Great soundtrack and synth driven score. Excellent use of New Order's "Elegia" (one of my favorites). A friend described it as the collaboration between Stephen King and Stephen Spielberg that never happened in the 80s.

On a personal note, in the second episode, the older kid is playing the Clash for one of the younger kids. He offers to make a mixtape with The Smiths, Joy Division, etc saying "it will change your life". In 1983 (the year the show is set), a clerk in a mall record shop made a mixtape for 6 year old me, including Joy Division. It did change my life. Seeing that in the show kinda freaked me out a little!

[Lombard]

A friend described it as the collaboration between Stephen King and Stephen Spielberg that never happened in the 80s.

That's an excellent observation!

[Muz]

I love this show! It's like Stephen King and Stephen Spielberg got together. At first I was worried that so many child characters would turn me off, but they're all great actors, well written, and geeky in a non-stereotyped way. I especially liked both Lucas and Dustin. Winona Ryder did an amazing job, too.

I just wish I'd known I was on the last episode when I started episode 8! I want more! More!!! (Though it does wrap up the arc in a satisfying way.)

Remember, kids: If you find yourself coughing up slugs, it's probably a wise idea to tell your parents.
Oh, and I was trying to figure out why Steve felt so familiar to me, and then it hit me:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cns8dU2UAAAE8T7.jpg
Did I mention I want more?

[Sholos]

What is the premise of said show?

[-D-]

What is the premise of said show?
This, pretty much:

On November 6, 1983 in Indiana, 12-year-old Will Byers vanishes instantly. Will's mother, Joyce, becomes frantic and tries to find Will, while Police Chief Hopper begins his own investigation. The very next day a mysterious girl with strange abilities appears who knows the whereabouts of Will. But as they get closer to the truth they will have to face not only a sinister government agency, but a more insidious force who plans on devouring them all.

I'm quite intrigued. This seems to be REAL horror™, that doesn't seem to devolve into thinly veiled sex/gore fest a la American Horror (or Hellraisers...).

[BeerMug Paladin]

I'd class it more in the suspense side of things, but horror and suspense can be pretty related to one another. There's some good dialogue and acting in it (the child actors do good work here) and for the most part it's pretty engaging. There's some areas where the show is underwhelming, but in general, the strengths of the show do make up for the weaknesses. If the premise sounds interesting, give it a try. If the premise doesn't sound interesting on its own, it might not be for you.

Surprisingly, the scenes with the children in it were the best part of the show. I didn't much care for how L's powers were used in the plot, and many of the aspects involving the conspiracy. There's a few other issues I had with the plot, but like I said before there's good cinematography, acting and dialogue in here to make the overall experience rather enjoyable. It's got good atmosphere to it, which can really make or break suspense/horror.

Apparently, the leader's plan to capture L was to send wave after wave of his own men at her until she hit her preset kill limit and would shut down, so she could be safely captured. I have no idea what they would have done if things reached that point, and I suspect the leader had no idea what to do with her at that point either. There's a few things like this in the plot, but they're minor enough compared to the overall experience that I don't think it matters.

[Zigwat]

For me, the Sheriff was probably the best part of the show. His character grows pretty strong, and the stuff he goes through is very engaging. Then, there's Eleven, Michael and the gang. The companionship they have for Bill is something to behold, especially when they go to such lengths to find him.

Overall, I'd say the stuff with Bill's brother and Michael's sister are some of the low points in the show. I especially didn't like the sideplot with her "boyfriend." In the end, it was semi-important, but when all is said and done, we honestly could have done without them. Overall, it's a fantastic show, and I have nothing but props for Stranger Things's creators. They know how to bring in the audience and it all makes for damn good viewing.

On a side note, I love that it took place in 1983. I saw a lot of things that I haven't seen in several years.

[Dienekes]

Great show. But the best character was not the awesome cop, Winona Rider putting out a great performance, or any of the main high school students.

No the best character was chubby toothless kid. Who held everyone together and remained useful and not stupid the entire show. Good on you chubby toothless kid, you're amazing.

[Giggling Ghast]

As I commented elsewhere, Stranger Things is a bit like an alternate version of The Goonies where one or more of the kids died to One-Eyed Willy's traps. Also, Sloth ate Chunk.

[Zigwat]

First of all, AAAAHHH!!! CANDLE JACK!!!!

Next, I would say the Goonies reference is valid. But to me, this is what Dream Catcher should have been. That movie was awful.

[Zigwat]

Damn, accidental double post. Still, this is a great show.

[JBPuffin]

Thought I'd give it a try and next thing I knew it was morning lol. Surprisingly well-crafted story with enough potential allegorical avenues to satisfy the average dabbler in deep thinking. Ooh and a good amount of D&D references! And 80's! Would recommend.

The cons were some scenes that felt a bit too derivative but they were spaced out well enough. Maybe those were just meant to be a nostalgia hammer I dunno. Still the writers made the story their own despite the 80's blender.

I literally went from 10:30 pm to 6 am, start to finish, knowing I had work the next day. First show I've binged on Netflix, and the 2nd I've ever watched start-to-finish in one go, the other being Persona 4: the Animation.

The show is fantastic...but it taught me that I have a problem with narratives (books, movies, the whole shebang) that end in ways other than I want them to (aka, almost-paradise). Particularly the romantic subplot >.>.

Something random this reminded me of: DnD 4e's Tier system, albeit much grittier. You had the protagonist kids (heroic), the teens (paragon), and the adults (epic), all fighting the same general foe but at different levels of involvement and different capability levels. I wonder how many other shows have structured their protag plots like that...

[Giggling Ghast]

Uh, Eleven was the only Epic-tier hero on the show. :smalltongue:

[dehro]

Watched it in two sittings, together with my girlfriend. Suffice to say, we both liked it and operation nostalgia was a success

[danzibr]

Glad there's already on a thread on this!
Few things.

1) I too disliked how the romance ended up, but then again, left open for season 2. Also, Steve ended up being a decent guy.
2) What are people's thoughts on the Vale of Shadows? Was the plane created recently, or was it always there? Why was there only one Demogorgon? Was it created recently, or was it always there? We see an egg, and I think we're supposed to think the Demogorgon came from that. But then there's that big slug thing that they shoot, and the tiny slug that comes out of Will at the end. I find it mighty weird there was only one Demogorgon (at least, sure seemed that way).
3) Speaking of which, I think the slug thing Will coughed up is going to survive, grow up.
4) Also, so Will has a connection to the Vale of Shadows. I wonder if he'll learn to control it, pass back and forth as he will it. I think they referenced.
5) Wonder what went down with the cop and the bad dudes at the end, him getting in their car.
6) I also wonder why he told them where 11 was.
7) Think 11 is in the Vale of Shadows with the Demogorgon?
8) Think the cop was dropping off the waffles because she was eating them? Or just in memory? I think the former.
9) I wonder, if they do more seasons (seems like we'll get at least 1 more) if it'll be a year per season. Might see the kids grow up, never know.

Big question: anyone have suggestions for shows like Stranger Things? And by that I mean... if I like Stranger Things, what other shows do you think I might like?

[Serpentine]

Big question: anyone have suggestions for shows like Stranger Things? And by that I mean... if I like Stranger Things, what other shows do you think I might like?
Maybe Stephen King's Kingdom Hospital. Binged that one when I was getting through a break-up. It's about a creepy haunted hospital, featuring a hypochondriac psychic, a man in a coma, a dead girl, and a giant anteater called Antubis. It's based on/an adaptation of a Danish movie/mini series by Lars von Trier, but I haven't seen that one.


P.S. Adored Stranger Things, can't wait for the next season.

[rcarb65]

I am up to episode three now. I didn't read any of the replies in case of spoilers. I was hearing a lot about this show so decided to give it a try. I loved when it started with the kids playing D&D. I had a good laugh when his mom told him the game needed to end and he replied, how was I suppose the know the game would last ten hours.

[Pex]

A friend suggested I'd like this. I found the first episode meh. It wasn't anything I hadn't seen before. Boy goes missing because of an escaped monster. Government agency is Evil, killing an innocent civilian who didn't know anything. A Mysterious Girl. Kids are nerds who get bullied. Hectic divorced mom. Formulaic. I wasn't bored, so I'm willing to give the second episode a try. I don't understand why it was necessary to set the show in 1983.

However, I may not see the second episode because they were playing D&D wrong, even for 1st edition back in 1983! You don't need to roll a die in order to cast Fireball. Demigorgon is not just some monster who appears. It's also unaffected by fire such that no one would even consider casting Fireball anyway. At least the miniature was correct. It wasn't horrendously inaccurate of how to play the game as the old SciFi show Eureka was, shudder, but I wanted to smack those writers for getting it so wrong. The saving grace was the accuracy in debating of whether or not a die that falls on the floor counts or not.

[dariathalon]

I don't understand why it was necessary to set the show in 1983.

If you don't understand this, then you probably won't get as much out of the series as most of the people you've heard raving about it. I loved the series, and the setting was a big part of the reason for my affection. Yes, they played D&D wrong. But with such convoluted rules back then, I don't think any group of kids played it "right". If that bothers you, again this may not be the show for you. (Though they don't show the kids playing it that much). It is more about getting the feeling right than the mechanics. Which they really succeeded at, imo. Yes, they do pull out a lot of the old standards. While this series does stand up well on its own, it is as much a tribute to many of the movies and tv shows from the era it takes place in. I can't count the number of times I saw a scene and went that was a lot like x. They never do exactly what you expect though. Not to spoil too much, but there was a scene where the kids were riding their bikes on the run. In my mind I was already jumping back to the scene in ET where the kids flew their bikes in the night sky. That isn't what happened here, but what did happen was just about as cool.

[Razade]

However, I may not see the second episode because they were playing D&D wrong, even for 1st edition back in 1983! You don't need to roll a die in order to cast Fireball. Demigorgon is not just some monster who appears. It's also unaffected by fire such that no one would even consider casting Fireball anyway. At least the miniature was correct. It wasn't horrendously inaccurate of how to play the game as the old SciFi show Eureka was, shudder, but I wanted to smack those writers for getting it so wrong. The saving grace was the accuracy in debating of whether or not a die that falls on the floor counts or not.

For someone who is so concerned about the portrayal of an out-dated table top game to a point they might not even continue watching a show. You'd think they'd spell Demogorgon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogorgon_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) correctly.

[dehro]

I don't understand why it was necessary to set the show in 1983.

However, I may not see the second episode because they were playing D&D wrong, even for 1st edition back in 1983!

1) the kids, including the DM, are 12. Also, homebrew...
In other words, maybe the writers got it wrong. It's even likely, but it can easily be explained away by considering that either the DM got it wrong as he read the rules, or he had a few home-brewed rules in there. Given their age, I'm going with option 1.
Personally, I don't care enough for the rules to let this come between me and enjoying the show that is about much more than watching kids play DnD. YMMV.

2) the reason to set this in the 80's is rather self-evident once you get into the show a bit more. The source materials for the show are the movies from the 80's.., E.T., close encounters, Explorer, stand by me... And books by the likes of Stephen King, like It, also mainly set or written in the 80's.
The explicit intent of the writers is to capture the vibe of those shows and movies, to which they pay homage both explicitly and indirectly... Therefore, the show being somewhat formulaic is both inevitable and done on purpose. This, of course, may not be your cup of tea...but complaining about it is like lamenting an overabundance of pharaohs in a documentary about pyramids.

On an unrelated side-note, I believe that the pervasiveness of smartphones and such make it really difficult to set a credible horrorfilm or monsterfilm in the present. People facing anything strange would either record it and put it on youtube or at least Google it..And you can put only so many people in the same room before all of them having 0 battery on their devices starts reeking of lazy scriptwriting.

[BWR]

Maybe Stephen King's Kingdom Hospital. Binged that one when I was getting through a break-up. It's about a creepy haunted hospital, featuring a hypochondriac psychic, a man in a coma, a dead girl, and a giant anteater called Antubis. It's based on/an adaptation of a Danish movie/mini series by Lars von Trier, but I haven't seen that one.


I've seen most of Riget and it was pretty good. A quick look on Google shows a fair number of people preferred the original to KH (and looking at the trailers and clips I've seen of KH, I can see why).
Just for starters, the name "Kingdom Hospital" is a bad translation. 'riket/riget' is a cognate of 'reich' and used used the same way as 'realm'. 'Riget' is taken from 'Rigshospitalet' ('the national hospital') and is used about a major, possibly the major, hospital in the country. A better, more literal translation would 'National Hospital' or 'The Nation(al)'.

Anyway, we've watched three episodes of ST and are quite pleased so far. Sure, they got some details about D&D wrong and those would have been easy enough to get right, but since that's not the focus of the show I'm not too bothered by it. Cliché? Sure. Well done? Very much so. I'm particularly pleased with the child actors (especially 11); American television has an annoying tendency to have unconvincing ones.

[danzibr]

Maybe Stephen King's Kingdom Hospital. Binged that one when I was getting through a break-up. It's about a creepy haunted hospital, featuring a hypochondriac psychic, a man in a coma, a dead girl, and a giant anteater called Antubis. It's based on/an adaptation of a Danish movie/mini series by Lars von Trier, but I haven't seen that one.


P.S. Adored Stranger Things, can't wait for the next season.
Thanks! I'll check that out tonight.

Yes, they played D&D wrong. But with such convoluted rules back then, I don't think any group of kids played it "right".
This reminds me of something. A buddy of mine is really good at Magic (at least in my opinion). I've only been to a couple tournaments (won one, though!), and he's been to dozens.

He was young when he first started playing, got the rules and tried to figure them out with his twin brother. They apparently didn't get it, and did wonky things like having both people attack each other at the same time.

On a related note, I think it's understandable the kids wouldn't know to not cast Fireball (the players or the DM for that matter), and as for the rolling... maybe they thought it was like a regular attack or something.

[JoshL]

If we're nitpicking the d&d, what DM EVER counts a roll that lands on the floor, good or bad. I mean, I know it was to demonstrate the character's honesty and integrity, but come on!

The players might not have known not to use a fireball, though the DM probably would have. If it was the first time they had seen it (although they knew of it, the name may have just come up in the campaign) they might not have known the details. I remember at least one middle school DM who was very secretive with his sourcebooks, because he didn't want us to know what was coming. He wanted us to, in this example, fireball and fail!

Kingdom Hospital and Riget (released on dvd as The Kingdom) are both awesome. I prefer the original, but mostly due to the obvious Stephen King Revenge Fantasy (it was right after he was hit by a car). And that damn song.

I'd also recommend Twin Peaks as similar, but playing with soap opera conventions rather than coming-of-age films. Stranger Things also shares a lot with Elfen Lied, but that is filled with things to make you feel awful and uncomfortable, so not for everyone (not just my observation; the creators referenced EL in an interview I read)

And now I want to rewatch Explorers!

[TripleD]

The D&D scenes are more than just background. I was re-watching with my wife and realized that they contain a lot of foreshadowing.


Three adventurers are trapped in with the Demogorgon. The lone Mage casts a fireball, but it fails. The obvious interpretation is of how Will is about to be captured, but it also works for the final confrontation between the teens and the "Demogorgon". They bicker in confusion, "cast fireball", followed by a short period where they think it might have worked, only for the truth to be revealed.

[dehro]

The D&D scenes are more than just background. I was re-watching with my wife and realized that they contain a lot of foreshadowing.

Three adventurers are trapped in with the Demogorgon. The lone Mage casts a fireball, but it fails. The obvious interpretation is of how Will is about to be captured, but it also works for the final confrontation between the teens and the "Demogorgon". They bicker in confusion, "cast fireball", followed by a short period where they think it might have worked, only for the truth to be revealed.

I know the DnD is more than background. I was trying to be less than spoilery

[Pex]

Wow.

People really do need blue text to see the joking.

[jidasfire]

I quite enjoyed the show, finding it a pleasant hearkening back to shows and movies of the era with a bit of modern style thrown in. However, I must confess I am less than enthused about the idea of a second season. Unless it drastically shifts gears, whether through a time jump, new characters, or new direction, it seems to me like the story is over, tiny loose ends or no, and there isn't really more to say.

On a minor note, Barb was just about my high school dream girl.

[TripleD]

I know the DnD is more than background. I was trying to be less than spoilery

My apologies; I wasn't trying to imply anything, just nerding out.

I thought I was being pretty vague but I realize now that it could be spoilery. Hiding now.

[alkatrazjr]

The D&D scenes are more than just background. I was re-watching with my wife and realized that they contain a lot of foreshadowing.


It might just be me paying more attention to the D&D aspects than I should, but I have a theory that the D&D game has more foreshadowing than is apparent now.

Demogorgon is a two-headed demon lord where the two heads bicker/are at war with one another. I speculate that the monster and Eleven are two "heads" of the same creature; that would explain how she knew about Will and why her and the monster vanished together

Continuing this, we see the players reveal a thessalhydra; which is not a hydra but an artificially created monster resembling a hydra. To quote wikipedia: "The first thessalmonster was so genetically unstable that it could breed with other monsters to create new variants. When the original was killed, no new breeds of thessalmonsters could be made"

I think if the "D&D monster foreshaows the real monster" theme continues, next season we'll see a government-created artificial monster that reproduces.

[Giggling Ghast]

For someone who is so concerned about the portrayal of an out-dated table top game to a point they might not even continue watching a show. You'd think they'd spell Demogorgon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogorgon_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) correctly.

He is right, though. 1E Demogorgon would never be defeated with a Fireball or show up with an army of troglodytes.

That said, they are kids, and they could just be playing freeform D&D.

[BWR]

He is right, though. 1E Demogorgon would never be defeated with a Fireball or show up with an army of troglodytes.

That said, they are kids, and they could just be playing free form D&D.

The book they looked up the Vale of Shadows in was the Expert expansion, IIRC.
Not that mixing and matching editions and supplements would be unheard of.

[alkatrazjr]

Yeah, I don't expect most adults to play by the book let alone kids

[Lombard]

One part that made me smile and kinda stuck with me is when the teacher unexpectedly(?) started riffing back at them with the D&D-speak.

[danzibr]

One part that made me smile and kinda stuck with me is when the teacher unexpectedly(?) started riffing back at them with the D&D-speak.
Haha, yeah, that was a great scene. Made me laugh.

[dehro]

One part that made me smile and kinda stuck with me is when the teacher unexpectedly(?) started riffing back at them with the D&D-speak.

My Headcanon says he's the one who introduced them to the game in the first place, what with him really being the only other geek they come in regular contact with.
This may be influenced by me being introduced to the game by a summer camp teacher in France

[GAZ]

Watched this show over the course of two late nights. Loved it. It was like they took the Goonies, Stand By Me, E.T., The Thing, A Nightmare on Elm Street, and Raiders of the Lost Ark and mixed them all up in a way that is at once both familiar and yet original. Nancy and Steve call each other cliches, but they're not. I have never seen a character like Steve in fiction before and was absolutely happy with the way that all ended, despite complaints earlier upthread. Winona Ryder is amazing as Joyce, Hopper is just so cool, Dustin is my favorite, and aside from the middle school mouth breathers every character feels more like a real person than a stock plot point or a trope. Highly recommended for everybody who likes things that are good.

Eleven created the Demogorgon.

11 is two ones. 1 for El and 1 for the monster. D&D Demogorgon has two heads and two personalities, aspects of the same thing. One for El and one for the monster.

Brenner and his people abused and tortured Eleven. That will leave physiological damage, the kind that hurts people from inside their own heads. Where did El first find the monster? Not in the real world, not in the Upside-Down, but in the black water physic construct place that represents her mind and her mental powers when she's in the sensory deprivation tank. The monster is a physical manifestation of El's messed up psyche.

Just prior to Eleven discovering the monster, Brenner gives her a flower. And it just so happens that the monster's face resembles a flower, petals and all? It just so happens that the monster takes children to hurt them, just like Brenner did?

After saving Mike at the quarry, El straight up calls herself a monster.

The monster comes for blood. El i shown bleeding constantly, way more than any other character, but the monster never comes for her.

When El is facing the monster at the end, she raises her hand to it and it mirrors that move. When she gets rid of it, the exact same thing happens to her at the exact same time.

The monster is the physical manifestation of El's messed up mind, released into the world when she freaked out about how damaged she really is because of MKUltra and whatever other nonsense Brenner and his people did to her.

[danzibr]

Watched this show over the course of two late nights. Loved it. It was like they took the Goonies, Stand By Me, E.T., The Thing, A Nightmare on Elm Street, and Raiders of the Lost Ark and mixed them all up in a way that is at once both familiar and yet original. Nancy and Steve call each other cliches, but they're not. I have never seen a character like Steve in fiction before and was absolutely happy with the way that all ended, despite complaints earlier upthread. Winona Ryder is amazing as Joyce, Hopper is just so cool, Dustin is my favorite, and aside from the middle school mouth breathers every character feels more like a real person than a stock plot point or a trope. Highly recommended for everybody who likes things that are good.

Eleven created the Demogorgon.

11 is two ones. 1 for El and 1 for the monster. D&D Demogorgon has two heads and two personalities, aspects of the same thing. One for El and one for the monster.

Brenner and his people abused and tortured Eleven. That will leave physiological damage, the kind that hurts people from inside their own heads. Where did El first find the monster? Not in the real world, not in the Upside-Down, but in the black water physic construct place that represents her mind and her mental powers when she's in the sensory deprivation tank. The monster is a physical manifestation of El's messed up psyche.

Just prior to Eleven discovering the monster, Brenner gives her a flower. And it just so happens that the monster's face resembles a flower, petals and all? It just so happens that the monster takes children to hurt them, just like Brenner did?

After saving Mike at the quarry, El straight up calls herself a monster.

The monster comes for blood. El i shown bleeding constantly, way more than any other character, but the monster never comes for her.

When El is facing the monster at the end, she raises her hand to it and it mirrors that move. When she gets rid of it, the exact same thing happens to her at the exact same time.

The monster is the physical manifestation of El's messed up mind, released into the world when she freaked out about how damaged she really is because of MKUltra and whatever other nonsense Brenner and his people did to her.

I've read various forms of this theory, but didn't buy it until you put it in this way. Well said, sir, and I agree.

[dehro]

they called her eleven well before the monster appeared. It attacks not just children but also animals. One wonders why it needs to feed at all if it's a manifestation of psychic powers. Other than that, the theory is very appealing and may well turn out to be true.

[Friv]

The monster attacks a lot of things - it attacks kids, teenagers, adults, animals. Pretty much anyone except Elle.

Aside from that, though, I think that at the least she brought it into the world, and it's still tied to her. On some level, she seems to be aware of it and what it's up to, and yeah, she mirrored to fight it.

[GAZ]

I've read various forms of this theory, but didn't buy it until you put it in this way. Well said, sir, and I agree.

Thanks! And yeah, after reading around it seems my idea is not as original as I thought it was. But that doesn't make us wrong.


they called her eleven well before the monster appeared. It attacks not just children but also animals. One wonders why it needs to feed at all if it's a manifestation of psychic powers. Other than that, the theory is very appealing and may well turn out to be true.


The monster attacks a lot of things - it attacks kids, teenagers, adults, animals. Pretty much anyone except Elle.

Aside from that, though, I think that at the least she brought it into the world, and it's still tied to her. On some level, she seems to be aware of it and what it's up to, and yeah, she mirrored to fight it.

I know that in-universe the lab called her 11 before the monster appeared, I'm saying her name is a meta-textual indicator to the audience that 1 thing is connected to the other 1.

The monster does happen to attack a scientist and a deer and some others. But I really thought those things were kinda incidental. The only real successful attacks on plot characters were on Will and Barb, both minors. But never ever on El, despite her nose constantly gushing like a blood faucet.

[Friv]

Thanks! And yeah, after reading around it seems my idea is not as original as I thought it was. But that doesn't make us wrong.





I know that in-universe the lab called her 11 before the monster appeared, I'm saying her name is a meta-textual indicator to the audience that 1 thing is connected to the other 1.

The monster does happen to attack a scientist and a deer and some others. But I really thought those things were kinda incidental. The only real successful attacks on plot characters were on Will and Barb, both minors. But never ever on El, despite her nose constantly gushing like a blood faucet.
Of the main characters, the monster only successfully attacks Will and Barb. However, it successfully attacks at least one scientist, several guards, and (according to Brenner) four other people in the area. It also makes a few attempts to grab Joyce. I'm not sure the "children" thing is a strong indicator.

[dehro]

One could argue that those attacks were self defence against aggressors or people invading the territory

[steen_dl]

I especially love the whole art direction and vibe of the series! definitely props to the director and producers

[Thrudd]

Watched this show over the course of two late nights. Loved it. It was like they took the Goonies, Stand By Me, E.T., The Thing, A Nightmare on Elm Street, and Raiders of the Lost Ark and mixed them all up in a way that is at once both familiar and yet original. Nancy and Steve call each other cliches, but they're not. I have never seen a character like Steve in fiction before and was absolutely happy with the way that all ended, despite complaints earlier upthread. Winona Ryder is amazing as Joyce, Hopper is just so cool, Dustin is my favorite, and aside from the middle school mouth breathers every character feels more like a real person than a stock plot point or a trope. Highly recommended for everybody who likes things that are good.

Eleven created the Demogorgon.

11 is two ones. 1 for El and 1 for the monster. D&D Demogorgon has two heads and two personalities, aspects of the same thing. One for El and one for the monster.

Brenner and his people abused and tortured Eleven. That will leave physiological damage, the kind that hurts people from inside their own heads. Where did El first find the monster? Not in the real world, not in the Upside-Down, but in the black water physic construct place that represents her mind and her mental powers when she's in the sensory deprivation tank. The monster is a physical manifestation of El's messed up psyche.

Just prior to Eleven discovering the monster, Brenner gives her a flower. And it just so happens that the monster's face resembles a flower, petals and all? It just so happens that the monster takes children to hurt them, just like Brenner did?

After saving Mike at the quarry, El straight up calls herself a monster.

The monster comes for blood. El i shown bleeding constantly, way more than any other character, but the monster never comes for her.

When El is facing the monster at the end, she raises her hand to it and it mirrors that move. When she gets rid of it, the exact same thing happens to her at the exact same time.

The monster is the physical manifestation of El's messed up mind, released into the world when she freaked out about how damaged she really is because of MKUltra and whatever other nonsense Brenner and his people did to her.


I'm not denying that Eleven obviously has a psychic connection to the thing, and the fact that it ignores her despite her bleeding and the manner in which she disappears with it is interesting. But I think this kind of analyzing is probably a little too "on the nose" symbolism for the genre of the show. A main flaw I see in this idea is the shadow world the monster inhabits and comes from does not appear to be a construct of Eleven's mind. It exists in places El has never seen or been to. It seems to be an actual shadow realm that mirrors the real world that people can see, walk around in and be trapped in. El needed to do a remote viewing session in order to find out exactly where Beverly and Will were, otherwise it seemed to be only general psychic impressions that she had of the upside down. I think that the show depicted exactly what happened: she was being used to perform remote viewing, and in her astral travels she happened on the edge of the shadow realm and had brief contact with the monster. Then they sent her back to specifically look for it, in the interest of scientific curiosity of course, strengthening her connection to the shadow realm and when she psychically touched the monster it tore the rift open to its plane. It may be that the monster always has/had the ability to open portals to our world or other worlds to grab things, it was eating something when she first found it, after all. Never mind the apparently hatched egg they wander past, and the slugs and trachea snake business. But either way, Eleven got out through the big rift and must have followed the monster out of the same portal it used when it went chasing after Will in the woods. She never goes back there until, possibly, the end. If she could have just plucked Will out of the upside down at any time, why didn't she?

[Pex]

In the first episode Elle escaped at the same time the monster entered based on Dad asking about her. In the various flashbacks we only get up to the gate being formed. We don't see how Elle escaped. It may not matter, but maybe it does.

[Malacronious]

The show is about D&D and Eggo Waffles. 10/10 would watch again.

Seriously though, I personally thought the show was amazing. I found absolutely nothing wrong with the show. It had great character building, great music and such a good setting. I love how the show was sprinkled with these suspenseful / jumpy elements that could keep you going even when nothing was actually happening. I found the D&D references really great too, loved how the writers used subtle things as foreshadowing throughout its entirety.

Those Eggo Waffles though, nom nom nom!

[Finback]

My Headcanon says he's the one who introduced them to the game in the first place, what with him really being the only other geek they come in regular contact with.
This may be influenced by me being introduced to the game by a summer camp teacher in France

Absolutely what ran through my head. It was the way the minute they mention the Vale of Shadow, he knew immediately what they meant.

[Psyren]

Just finished this and enjoyed it thoroughly. Barbara's treatment didn't really sit well with me but the rest was truly gripping and a great period-piece to boot.

Using the lights to signify weirdness was pretty brilliant. Good way to save on your special effects budget while keeping the sci-fi ramped up. And the ending was open without being a total cliffhanger.

[Pex]

I'm glad they went against Trope and kept Steve and Nancy together. I knew from the first episode when good girl heroine was dating the Jock NPC who had jerk friends the Jock's own jerkitude would come through leading to a break up. Typically that leads to her hooking up with the outcast hero bonding over their struggle to overcome the threatening McGuffin. They hinted at that bonding a lot. Jerk boyfriends seeing the light and feeling remorse is not unheard of in situations like this, but more often than not they still lose the girl and end up just being happy for her and her new outcast hero beau. Getting her back was a pleasant surprise, not because of the romance, which is fine in its own right, but precisely because that's not how these love triangles typically end.

[Wookieetank]

Thoughts and questions

1) I too disliked how the romance ended up, but then again, left open for season 2. Also, Steve ended up being a decent guy.I ended up being okay with the romance because it ended against my expectations.

2) What are people's thoughts on the Vale of Shadows? Was the plane created recently, or was it always there? Why was there only one Demogorgon? Was it created recently, or was it always there? We see an egg, and I think we're supposed to think the Demogorgon came from that. But then there's that big slug thing that they shoot, and the tiny slug that comes out of Will at the end. I find it mighty weird there was only one Demogorgon (at least, sure seemed that way).I think the Vale of Shadows has always been there, the in-between (place 11 goes for long distance mind powers) space was newer though. I had the impression that the in-between was a kind of nowhere space that is connected to everywhere, which allowed for the inter-dimensional contact and long distance spying/assassinating. Think of stepping outside of reality and being able to contact anywhere in reality, while you're just in one spot.

3) Speaking of which, I think the slug thing Will coughed up is going to survive, grow up.Ditto.

4) Also, so Will has a connection to the Vale of Shadows. I wonder if he'll learn to control it, pass back and forth as he will it. I think they referenced.
I'm thinking he may be changing into a human/Demogorgon hybrid.

5) Wonder what went down with the cop and the bad dudes at the end, him getting in their car.
My guess is that he's the Institutes' in town contact now. He helps cover up things in town, in exchange for knowing what is going on so he can better keep the townies safe.

6) I also wonder why he told them where 11 was.
Exchanging a stranger for the kid of someone you care about, seemed pretty straight forward to me.

7) Think 11 is in the Vale of Shadows with the Demogorgon?
I'm thinking 11 and/or the Demogorgon are stuck in the in-between. There doesn't seem to be any way to physically move there and back at this point. Whereas the Vale of Shadows is just a hairsbreadth away.

8) Think the cop was dropping off the waffles because she was eating them? Or just in memory? I think the former.
I'm thinking the waffles are left as an anchor/bait for 11 to come back to the "real world" so that the institute can continue using her. Hooper is on non-shooting terms with the Institute at the end.




Big question: anyone have suggestions for shows like Stranger Things? And by that I mean... if I like Stranger Things, what other shows do you think I might like?

The wife and I started watching Penny Dreadful after this one, and are greatly enjoying it. Not really a similar style to Stranger Things, but definitely a high quality show that knows what its doing by blending known source material and something new. Its a Gothic Horror, set in Victorian London and pulls together a lot of classic horror literature creatures and characters for its main cast.

[Lombard]

Season 2 was announced today!

[danzibr]

Season 2 was announced today!
I heard! Very excited.

[Dusso]

If you are looking for other great remakes of past decades (60' & 70') you might want to check both seasons of Fargo, although the story is totally different (dark criminal)

[Slipperychicken]

Oh, and I was trying to figure out why Steve felt so familiar to me, and then it hit me:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cns8dU2UAAAE8T7.jpg
Did I mention I want more?

I don't think I'll be able to take Steve seriously again after seeing this.




Apparently, the leader's plan to capture L was to send wave after wave of his own men at her until she hit her preset kill limit and would shut down, so she could be safely captured. I have no idea what they would have done if things reached that point, and I suspect the leader had no idea what to do with her at that point either. There's a few things like this in the plot, but they're minor enough compared to the overall experience that I don't think it matters.

To his credit, she did quickly hit her limit, shut down, and was right about to be captured when the monster appeared. She doesn't seem to have much endurance with her powers. I think it would have made more sense if they used tranquilizers for her though.

My guess is that he wanted to just take her back, beef up the security, and keep milking her for psychic powers until she killed him. If they wanted her dead, they would have shot her.

[Amaril]

Man, I loved it, and I have a lot of thoughts.

First and foremost, Will. I found it extremely satisfying when my immediate thought of "there's no way he's fine after having that thing down his throat" was validated :smalltongue: I see two possibilities for him in the future. One, whatever weird symbiote or parasite is in him will give him powers, probably allowing him to enter the Vale of Shadows and deal with weird stuff in later seasons; or two, he's a ticking time bomb, and once whatever is in him bursts out (likely killing him in horrible fashion), it'll be the new threat for everyone else to deal with. Personally, my money's on the former, because after using Will as mostly just a plot device for the first season, I'd expect them to want to shake up that pattern and give him a more active role from now on. Though, in that case, it looks like his powers will come with a generous helping of body horror, which normally I'd enjoy, but given that this particular form (worm parasites) is pretty much my worst nightmare personally, I'm not sure I'll be able to handle it.

Relatedly, the demogorgon (I leave it uncapitalized, because I think there's probably more than one). Clearly, it had some relationship with the slug things: what was it? It looked like it was bringing them hosts, but why? Maybe it, and/or they, are smarter than they appear, and were coordinating some kind of invasion of Earth? That little larva Will coughed up got into the pipes, which makes me think it, and the others I assume he's been spreading, might find their way into other people.

Nancy and Steve. I admit, I really like the way they handled Steve in general; I'm not sure I like him, exactly, but I don't think he's a bad guy, in the end. And the whole way they played with the cliches of that arc is fun and works well. Honestly, that's one of my favorite things about this show, the way they respect the cliches but don't do them entirely straight, making all the characters much more rounded and believable (except for a few of the bit characters like the mouth-breathing trolls). Anyway, on Steve and Nancy in particular: am I the only one who thought Nancy didn't look entirely happy there at the end? Sure, Steve may have (arguably) redeemed himself, but I don't think that love triangle is over.

Finally, Hopper. I'm upset about how that turned out--not in the sense that it was poorly done, I'm just mad about Hopper's decision. Sure, Eleven was just some kid he had no connection to, while Will was Joyce's son, I get that, but selling El out was still a really scummy move on his part. He should have tried to find some other solution. Granted, we don't know exactly what happened, but I find it highly implausible that he knew El would survive (assuming she did, which is what it looks like to me), so even if he's making amends somehow now, it doesn't change the fact that he betrayed an innocent kid who he had a responsibility to protect. F*** you, Hopper. I expected more.

[tantric]

i came to the same conclusion as the super secret spoiler theory independently - when the heroine finally slays the monster, i was grief striken with the pathos of it. seriously.

about nit picking on playing DnD from someone who bought the 1sted MM in 7th grade. they are not playing DnD because they don't have all the books, or have just made their own way to play it. did you see the Red Box or any hardback books? no. oh, wait, they must have just used the PDFs. what your are seeing is *very* realistic and no, it's not Basic Set RAW.

[Slipperychicken]

Finally, Hopper. I'm upset about how that turned out--not in the sense that it was poorly done, I'm just mad about Hopper's decision. Sure, Eleven was just some kid he had no connection to, while Will was Joyce's son, I get that, but selling El out was still a really scummy move on his part. He should have tried to find some other solution. Granted, we don't know exactly what happened, but I find it highly implausible that he knew El would survive (assuming she did, which is what it looks like to me), so even if he's making amends somehow now, it doesn't change the fact that he betrayed an innocent kid who he had a responsibility to protect. F*** you, Hopper. I expected more.

It seemed to me like he didn't have a real choice. If he refused to cooperate or gave them the wrong address, the government guys would have decided to keep him locked up, killed him, or eventually wrung the truth out of him. In each case the kids would have been doomed regardless, as either the monster or the government would have found them. At least this way he got a chance to destroy the monster and rescue Will.

If he assumed Eleven was to be captured immediately despite her powers, then that would still be good, as she could probably kill a bunch of the government guys and give him an opportunity to get everyone out in one piece.

[Wookieetank]

It seemed to me like he didn't have a real choice. If he refused to cooperate or gave them the wrong address, the government guys would have decided to keep him locked up, killed him, or eventually wrung the truth out of him. In each case the kids would have been doomed regardless, as either the monster or the government would have found them. At least this way he got a chance to destroy the monster and rescue Will.

If he assumed Eleven was to be captured immediately despite her powers, then that would still be good, as she could probably kill a bunch of the government guys and give him an opportunity to get everyone out in one piece.


With how in tune to things Hopper was shown to be in earlier episodes, I never felt he "sold out" El so much as just used her as a bargaining chip. El is at the school with the other kids, a location which they know rather well spending 40+ hours a week there, so if there is any sort of hiding spots to be had, the kids would most likely know of them (particularly with their history of getting bullied).

Also Hopper was pretty cheesed that they killed his good friend, and knowing of EL's powers, may have given the Institute guys her location with the expectation that she'd take them out and he'd be able to have revenge by proxy.

Really there's any number of motivations for Hopper to have done most anything in the show. Even when explicit reasons are given, the layering his character has makes him terribly interesting for me.

[Dill Raulnor]

The last several episodes in the season was outstanding.

[kraftcheese]

With how in tune to things Hopper was shown to be in earlier episodes, I never felt he "sold out" El so much as just used her as a bargaining chip. El is at the school with the other kids, a location which they know rather well spending 40+ hours a week there, so if there is any sort of hiding spots to be had, the kids would most likely know of them (particularly with their history of getting bullied).

Also Hopper was pretty cheesed that they killed his good friend, and knowing of EL's powers, may have given the Institute guys her location with the expectation that she'd take them out and he'd be able to have revenge by proxy.

Really there's any number of motivations for Hopper to have done most anything in the show. Even when explicit reasons are given, the layering his character has makes him terribly interesting for me.
And I feel like just because Hopper's been forced into working with the Department of Energy or whoever they are doesn't mean he's not going to try and subvert their goals as much as he can.

[Stan]

When Elle killed the monster, I got a really strong vibe of Ged and his shadow at the end of A Wizard of Earthsea. In both cases the hero realizes that they are connected to the threat and find the courage to face it directly and end it. Ged survived. Maybe Elle did too.

I don't know if this reference is intentional but the book was very popular in the 70s and 80s. If it was, then it strengthens the idea that the two are connected or are part of the same thing.

[holly01]

in my opinion it is a very interesting spectacle

[Lombard]

http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/schumer-halloween/amy-schumer-ben-hanisch-stranger-things-halloween-costume-03.jpg

[akhenmosis]

hi. has anyone heard of the ogl horror game published in 2003 i think by mongoose? it has this statement under multiclassing.

OGL Horror and Multiclassing
Multiclassing is entirely normal in OGL Horror... The ordinary mother-of-three who
is forced to track her stolen child through an eldritch
forest, a bizarre version of her own town (with alligators
instead of policemen), a government research lab and an
extradimensional hellhole may well pick up a few levels
as an Investigator (hey, and maybe even her kid). Most of
the characters who survive...

the bit about the mother. it sounds like it,s referring to stranger things, a program airing over a decade later. freaked me out. does anyone know if it is referring to a film or something or if the mother going into the shadow world and battling a secret government organisation to get her child back is some sort of trope of its own?

[Giggling Ghast]

'Parent searches for lost child' is a fairly common story trope, though not as common as the reversal.

[raja]

Any news of season 4?

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Necromancy is of the a Upside Down.