How to build Conan?

[Diebo]

I'm reading Conan right now. It seems like he has quite a bit of rogue built into him, as well as some champion fighter.

Straight Barbarian ironically doesn't capture the spirit of Conan (to me). I'd say at least 7 Fighter/Champion (Remarkable Athlete), 7 Rogue/Thief (Uncanny Dodge and Evasion), and 7 Barbarian/probably Bear Totem (Feral Instinct). Which of course adds up to 21. And he should end up with 24 strength and con.... Sigh.

Of course Conan would have max strength and constitution, and possibly dexterity. On a point buy, that doesn't leave room for other feats, like tavern brawler (he uses improvised weapons not infrequently) and lucky and alert.

Going variant human, I can see starting with 16 str, 16 con, 14 dex and one of the feats (lucky?).

Anyway, how would you build Conan?

[Cybren]

I wouldn't use point buy and instead assume he just rolled very very well.
Strength: Frequently said to be as strong as or stronger than any other mortal man. Wrestles with all sorts of strange giant beasts. 18+
Dexterity: Howard loved to refer to him as having the reflexes of a panther, and in Queen of the Black Coast is seen using a bow and arrows with deadly precision, so 15-17+
Constitution: Conan endures all sorts of deprivations in his adventures, and I can only remember coming close to death in Xuthal of the Dusk, so this is likely outstanding. 16+
Intelligence: This one is harder to pin down. In earlier editions you could point to his number of languages known and eclectic mix of skills and say that he probably had a few points of intelligence modifier. Still, those things demonstrate he's sharper than he let's on. I'd say 13+
Wisdom: Conan probably has excellent survival and perception skills, so he most likely has a decent wisdom. I wish I could remember the stories better to give you some examples of him resisting nefarious magic, but alas, I just woke up and am very groggy. Probably 14+
Charsima: Conan is a pretty magnetic character, and liked well enough to be selected as the replacement when the plotters in Aquillonia wanted a new king, so again probably 13+.

You could fiddle with the numbers. Maybe his dex and wis aren't quite that high, but he has alert and observant. Lucky is an excellent call though, Conan survived a lot of adventures, many of them mysterious and opaque to him, but nonetheless, he triumphed when he faced adversity. I mean, The Phoenix on the Sword is predicated on an assassination attempt failing because of a fortunate coincidence, so I think it fits...

I have to leave for work now, but as for classes and background, i'd say conan is a high level fighter/rogue with the outlander background, but not a barbarian. At the very least, he has heavy armor proficiency and all martial weapon proficiencies, as he uses whatever weapons he gets his hands on in any given adventure.

[Knaight]

Of course Conan would have max strength and constitution, and possibly dexterity. On a point buy, that doesn't leave room for other feats, like tavern brawler (he uses improvised weapons not infrequently) and lucky and alert.

This seems like a bit much. Conan is explicitly extremely strong, and there's a whole thing involving him out wrestling a strong man who is big and strong but ever so slightly behind Conan's standard because this man was from a city, and Conan is a Cimmerian. Maximizing strength makes sense. Constitution and dexterity though? He's tough, and he's quick, but there are explicitly some tougher and a great many quicker. Neither of those should be maximized, and a dexterity in the 12-16 range would be totally fine, with constitution more in the 14-20 range.

On the class side, Fighter/Rogue probably fits best; neither really need to be that high in level. The Conan stories are fairly grounded by D&D standards, and while 5e is among the more grounded editions, it still favors enough that isn't to mark Conan as more of a mid level than high level character. This does run into conversion issues, but there's really no way around them - converting literary characters to games is a messy and imprecise problem by nature, and class based games in particular don't lend themselves well to it.

[Diebo]

I should have specified that there are really two parts to my question (or two ways that it could be interpreted). First, how would Conan ideally be built, without limitations to traits, point buy, etc. And second, how to build a character in the spirit of Conan from the ground up, using point buy.

For the first part, I agree that he had 18-20 strength. He was pretty quick, but that might just be Danger Sense giving advantage on dex saves (so he really wouldn't need more than 14 or so). Con is high, but I agree doesn't have to be off the charts. Alert seems likely. Lucky seems likely.

Fighter/rogue seems to make a lot of sense, but Barbarian gives unarmored defense, danger sense, the ability to take a beating (bear totem, just downplay the bear), fast movement, feral instinct (advantage on initiative). Champion makes sense. And rogue (uncanny dodge and evasion) make sense.

In terms of background, he was raised Outlander/barbarian. I'd say take that to 5 or so. Then pick up Rogue/Fighter for when he starts thieving and being a mercenary/working in armies. Rogue would give him expertise in athletics and perception. Or the alert feat, and with Rogue he could pick up acrobatics maybe. So after 5 barbarian, maybe 2 rogue, and then champion until at least 3. But at level 10, you would only have one ASI. First ASI for lucky or alert (variant human), Level 4 ASI for strength (16 to 18).

[Sigreid]

I would say


3 levels of barbarian berserk style to represent his slavery time and time in the arenas
5 levels of battle master fighter to represent his being taught the inner most secrets of battle from the greatest masters
3 levels of Rogue with the thief focus
alternate battle master and rogue


I'm not an expert on Conan, but that's what I get from what I have read.

[Temperjoke]

Instead of giving him super high stats, some of it could be explained with proficiency options. For example, Athletics and Acrobatics combined with a high strength and a decent dexterity score would cover his physicality, such as climbing, agility, grappling, even some of his stealthiness. I don't know that he would need rogue levels, I don't recall that he picked a lot of locks, put on disguises, or ran a lot of con games, or even did a lot with sleight of hand.

Battle Master Fighter/Barbarian 2 would cover a large part of him, I think, combined with either the Outlander (to emphasize the barbarian) or Criminal (to emphasize his thief traits) backgrounds to round him out. If we're talking feats as well, I'd say start with Tavern Brawler. On the languages part, humans get Common and one other language, but having the character know a third language wouldn't be game breaking.

Another thing to consider, perhaps a version of Conan in the D&D universe wouldn't be human? He could just as easily be Half-Orc or Goliath, although it makes the feats a little harder.

[Specter]

I'd say Barb 11/Rogue 5/Champion 4. All you need from each class. Max STR, or else or you're not honoring Arnold, I mean , Conan.

[Cybren]

This seems like a bit much. Conan is explicitly extremely strong, and there's a whole thing involving him out wrestling a strong man who is big and strong but ever so slightly behind Conan's standard because this man was from a city, and Conan is a Cimmerian. Maximizing strength makes sense. Constitution and dexterity though? He's tough, and he's quick, but there are explicitly some tougher and a great many quicker. Neither of those should be maximized, and a dexterity in the 12-16 range would be totally fine, with constitution more in the 14-20 range.

On the class side, Fighter/Rogue probably fits best; neither really need to be that high in level. The Conan stories are fairly grounded by D&D standards, and while 5e is among the more grounded editions, it still favors enough that isn't to mark Conan as more of a mid level than high level character. This does run into conversion issues, but there's really no way around them - converting literary characters to games is a messy and imprecise problem by nature, and class based games in particular don't lend themselves well to it.
Howard frequently described Conan as being as lithe and quick as a big cat. Conan's agility is an asset that comes up as often as his strength. Saying his dex is 12 is absurd

[Diebo]

Howard frequently described Conan as being as lithe and quick as a big cat. Conan's agility is an asset that comes up as often as his strength. Saying his dex is 12 is absurd

Well, a panther, lion, and cat all have 15 dexterity. And Danger Sense gives advantage on Dexterity rolls, which is like a +5 bonus. 14-15 dexterity and Danger Sense would be consistent with Conan's character.

[Mongobear]

Honestly, it's impossible to stat out Conan taking everything he has ever done into account for making one character. The movie Conans, specifically Arnold's first and second movies, are entirely different than Jason Momoa's rendition of Conan. As well, several of the novel versions of him had vastly different abilities/fighting styles/personalities that would be impossible to have on a single character.

I'd say, pick a version of Conan to make a character from and go from there.

Examples:

Conan the Barbarian (Arnold's 1st movie)

V. Human Barbarian 2/Rogue 6/Fighter 12

STR 20 HP: 261 (Average every level + 40 from Tough feat)
DEX 16 Unarmored AC: 18/20
CON 20 Armor/Shield AC: 17/19
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 14

Weapons: Longsword
Great Axe
Javelin

Armor: Scale Mail
Shield

Feats: Medium Armor Master
Great Weapon Master
Lucky
Tough
Skilled

Skills: Athletics*
Acrobatics
Deception*
Stealth*
Perception*
Insight
Investigation
Intimidation

(* Denotes Expertise from Rogue)

Barbarian Class Features: Rage, Unarmored Defense, Reckless Attacks, Danger Sense

Rogue Class Features: Expertise(x2), Sneak Attack, Thieve's Cant, Cunning Action, Theif Archetype (Fast Hands, Second-Story Work), Uncanny Dodge

Fighter Class Features: Second Wind, Great Weapon Fighting Style, Action Surge, Champion Archetype(Imp. Critical, Remarkable Athlete, Dueling Fighting Style), Extra Attack(2), Indomitable(one use)

This is just enough "barbarian" to show his early life, and time in the fighting pits. Then when taken to the Weapon Masters in the East, he is trained in many Fighting styles, which allows him to master the ways of heavy two-handed weapons like a (Versatile) Longsword or Great Axe, as well as the smaller, lighter blades like his Longsword. As he escapes his master's lands, and makes his way through the wilderness to the hut with the sorceress, and first meets Subetai, he begins to take levels in Thief Rogue mainly for the skill expertise but also for his ability to unknowingly avoid attacks from enemies(Uncanny Dodge).

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I have a variant human Conan that I did via point buy. I'm going to do him as a 20th level Barbarian because the level 20 capstone of Str 24, Con 24 is sooooo Conan. Conan should be the strongest, toughest dude around. His "thief" aspect can just be captured with proficiency in stealth.

[Diebo]

Honestly, it's impossible to stat out Conan taking everything he has ever done into account for making one character. The movie Conans, specifically Arnold's first and second movies, are entirely different than Jason Momoa's rendition of Conan. As well, several of the novel versions of him had vastly different abilities/fighting styles/personalities that would be impossible to have on a single character.

I'd say, pick a version of Conan to make a character from and go from there.

Examples:

Conan the Barbarian (Arnold's 1st movie)

V. Human Barbarian 2/Rogue 6/Fighter 12

STR 20 HP: 261 (Average every level + 40 from Tough feat)
DEX 16 Unarmored AC: 18/20
CON 20 Armor/Shield AC: 17/19
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 14

Weapons: Longsword
Great Axe
Javelin

Armor: Scale Mail
Shield

Feats: Medium Armor Master
Great Weapon Master
Lucky
Tough
Skilled

Skills: Athletics*
Acrobatics
Deception*
Stealth*
Perception*
Insight
Investigation
Intimidation

(* Denotes Expertise from Rogue)

Barbarian Class Features: Rage, Unarmored Defense, Reckless Attacks, Danger Sense

Rogue Class Features: Expertise(x2), Sneak Attack, Thieve's Cant, Cunning Action, Theif Archetype (Fast Hands, Second-Story Work), Uncanny Dodge

Fighter Class Features: Second Wind, Great Weapon Fighting Style, Action Surge, Champion Archetype(Imp. Critical, Remarkable Athlete, Dueling Fighting Style), Extra Attack(2), Indomitable(one use)

This is just enough "barbarian" to show his early life, and time in the fighting pits. Then when taken to the Weapon Masters in the East, he is trained in many Fighting styles, which allows him to master the ways of heavy two-handed weapons like a (Versatile) Longsword or Great Axe, as well as the smaller, lighter blades like his Longsword. As he escapes his master's lands, and makes his way through the wilderness to the hut with the sorceress, and first meets Subetai, he begins to take levels in Thief Rogue mainly for the skill expertise but also for his ability to unknowingly avoid attacks from enemies(Uncanny Dodge).

I'd agree that the first step is to define what "Conan" we are talking about. I think you are right that 2 barbarian, 12 fighter, 6 rogue is the way to go. It is a bit curious that the quintessential barbarian is best built with only 2 barbarian levels. But then again, in the first movie and in the books, his early life was barbarian, then he spent time thieving and in various military/fighting groups. The main thing he is missing from the barbarian class is brutal criticals (and the +4 CON, +4 STR capstone). Feral Instinct is also appropriate.

In terms of feats, there are so many that are Conan appropriate:
Alert: Yup
Athlete: Yup
Charger: Likely
Dual Wielder: Potentially
Dungeon Delver: Yup
Durable: Yup
Grappler: Yup
Great Weapon Master: Yup
Heavily Armored: Yup
Inspiring Leader: Yup
Lucky: Yup
Mage Slayer: Yup
Martial Adept: Likely (considering he is best a Champion)
Medium Armor Master: Yup
Mobile: Likely
Mounted Combatant: Likely
Resilient: Could make a case
Savage Attacker: Yup
Sentinel: Likely
Sharpshooter: Yup. He's pretty good with a bow.
Shield Master: Maybe?
Skilled: Likely
Skulker: Maybe
Tavern Brawler: Yup
Tough: Yup

And that (above) is the real problem with making Conan. But then again, he is an exceptional figure. If you could go with high rolls instead of point buy, you are still stuck with only 6 feats (variant human). What six feats are most connected to Conan?

Maybe Lucky, Tavern Brawler, Great Weapon Master, Alert, Dungeon Delver, Mage Slayer?

[Knaight]

Howard frequently described Conan as being as lithe and quick as a big cat. Conan's agility is an asset that comes up as often as his strength. Saying his dex is 12 is absurd

12 is above average, and those descriptions show up disproportionately often in the context of a small handful of skills (mostly combat). In 5e terms, that's more indicative of high proficiency and above average dexterity than anything.

[Cybren]

12 is above average, and those descriptions show up disproportionately often in the context of a small handful of skills (mostly combat). In 5e terms, that's more indicative of high proficiency and above average dexterity than anything.

When a writer makes frequent and conspicuous mention of someone's characteristic with a direct comparison we can assume it as a significant one and not a slight improvement. I'm curious how much Conan you've read? Conan being quick and agile as a panther comes up almost as frequent as Conan being exceptionally strong or Cimmerian. Conan was quick(plus 12 is about average on 4d6 drop 1, and only slightly above average for 3d6, before any racial modifiers. For a standard human, 12 is almost below average on 4d6d1 and barely above average on 3d6)

[Diebo]

When a writer makes frequent and conspicuous mention of someone's characteristic with a direct comparison we can assume it as a significant one and not a slight improvement. I'm curious how much Conan you've read? Conan being quick and agile as a panther comes up almost as frequent as Conan being exceptionally strong or Cimmerian. Conan was quick(plus 12 is about average on 4d6 drop 1, and only slightly above average for 3d6, before any racial modifiers. For a standard human, 12 is almost below average on 4d6d1 and barely above average on 3d6)

I am reading Conan right now (for the first time!) and I agree, agile/quick and catlike come up all the time. I mean, really, Conan in the book probably has 24 strength, 24 con, and 20 dexterity. He breezes through combat against normally insurmountable odds.

That said, cats have 15 dexterity. We can assume 16 is both more than a cat, and as high as any human (on point buy) can start with. 16 is exceptional. If he had 16 dexterity and 18-20 strength, that would be pretty incredible.

But again, going back to the book, Conan's dexterity is not a point lower than 20 the way it is described.

[Lombra]

Mechanically: Barbarogue expertise in acrobatics (or stealth) and athletics, maybe a dip in fighter for fighting style and proficiencies.

Frenzy barbarian obviously. Which is way better than most people think, and fills the fluff.

Fluff wise he's the ultimate warrior, not really replicable within this system unless you could get all of the fighter's archetypes features in one class.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Frenzy barbarian obviously. Which is way better than most people think, and fills the fluff.


My version of Conan is a Totem Barbarian, I just substitute the word "Crom" for "Bear". :wink:

Frenzy Barbarian blows, I wish it didn't, but it does.

[Knaight]

When a writer makes frequent and conspicuous mention of someone's characteristic with a direct comparison we can assume it as a significant one and not a slight improvement. I'm curious how much Conan you've read? Conan being quick and agile as a panther comes up almost as frequent as Conan being exceptionally strong or Cimmerian. Conan was quick(plus 12 is about average on 4d6 drop 1, and only slightly above average for 3d6, before any racial modifiers. For a standard human, 12 is almost below average on 4d6d1 and barely above average on 3d6)

I've read everything Howard wrote - I just don't think that a huge dexterity score is necessary. That he's quick is explicitly brought up a lot, but there's not a great many feats of quickness, and a lot of the context points just as well to proficiency in acrobatics and athletics (in D&D terms) as it does towards a high raw dexterity score. Meanwhile Conan explicitly wins a number of matches of raw strength against a variety of very strong opponents.

[Klorox]

I'd say he has levels in barbarian, fighter and rogue.

Probably barb 2/ fighter (champion) 5+/ rogue 2+

It has been forever since I've read a Conan novel. I really should do so again.

I'd make him a human more than vhuman, for the better stats.

16/14/14/11/12/12

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I've read everything Howard wrote - I just don't think that a huge dexterity score is necessary. That he's quick is explicitly brought up a lot, but there's not a great many feats of quickness, and a lot of the context points just as well to proficiency in acrobatics and athletics (in D&D terms) as it does towards a high raw dexterity score. Meanwhile Conan explicitly wins a number of matches of raw strength against a variety of very strong opponents.

I agree, Conan was quick for his size which could certainly put him at Dex 14, maybe Dex 16 tops but above that is a bit silly. In truth, point buy for Conan is just not going to give the high stats that he would have. Conan should be maxed out at Str and Con, have like Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, and Chr 16 or something. Dude was super-charismatic in terms of his ability to lead people, the guy became a King after all and was a legend even before then.

[Gwendol]

I am reading Conan right now (for the first time!) and I agree, agile/quick and catlike come up all the time. I mean, really, Conan in the book probably has 24 strength, 24 con, and 20 dexterity. He breezes through combat against normally insurmountable odds.

That said, cats have 15 dexterity. We can assume 16 is both more than a cat, and as high as any human (on point buy) can start with. 16 is exceptional. If he had 16 dexterity and 18-20 strength, that would be pretty incredible.

But again, going back to the book, Conan's dexterity is not a point lower than 20 the way it is described.

I disagree. In the tower of the elephant Conan teams up with Taurus, who is described as being incredibly agile (and athletic).

Here's my suggestion:

"Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and in the years of the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet" -- The Nemedian Chronicles

Conan should have near superhuman (physical) stats.

STR 18 (if ANYONE must have it)
CON 17 (just not to overkill)
DEX 18 (See strength)
INT 11 (not stupid, but also not learned)
WIS 15 (keen instinct)
CHA 16 (has a way with people, also, he does become the king)

Barbarian 2 (Venarium, Frost Giant's Daughter)
Rogue 1 (Tower of the Elephant)
Barbarian 3 (Berserker path) (Hand of Nergal, Rogues in the House)
Fighter 3 (Champion, GW fighting) (Black Colossus, Queen of the Black Coast)
Barbarian 7 (People of the Black Circle, etc)
Fighter 12 (Red Nails, Phoenix on the Sword, The Hour of the Dragon)

Background: Outlander
Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Acrobatics, Perception, Survival, Intimidation, Animal Handling
Tools: Sea vehicles
Feats: Tavern Brawler, Savage Attacker, +?
There are a few more that could fit such as Great Weapon Master, Mounted Combatant, Lucky, Inspiring Leader, depending on which Conan one wants to emulate.

All in all though, 5e does a good job at emulating Conan if one picks from the Barbarian (berserker) and Fighter (Champion) classes.

Taken from this thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384648-Conan-The-5e-Build-Challenge!/page2

EDIT: Also, for those interested in reading Conan, you can find the collection here: http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks13/1303751h.html

[CursedRhubarb]

I don't think he would need any rogue levels but definitely barbarian (totem) for a while then fighter (champion). An unarmored barbarian with a decent to great Dex score ( I'd agree he's likely a +3 mod but not max) can be crazy stealthy, plus move quickly while sneaking and he doesn't sneak much in his older years (after becoming a king, dethroned, then back again) since at that point he starts wearing actual armor. I don't remember him using a bow or shield but definitely a longsword (gone are the days of the bastard sword) and a battleaxe. Totems I'd put him down for bear, eagle, wolf since he shrugs off so much, has great perception with spotting things, and knocks guys down all over the place. Max Strength and Constitution, +1-2 on Intelligence, +2 on Wisdom, maybe +3 at higher levels, and Charisma +0 to start and up to +1-2 at high levels since even though be becomes a king people still turned on him and he had to win them back.

[Diebo]

I don't think he would need any rogue levels...

He might not *need* rogue levels, but there is good evidence that he was a trained thief.

From Queen of the Black Coast
"...Bel, god of thieves, is a good god. When I was a thief in Zamora I learned of him."

From Conan the Conqueror
"Well," Conan was recovering some of his resilient confidence, "there's no assurance that the thief will throw it away. If I know thieves—and I should, for I was a thief in Zamora in my early youth—he won't throw it away. He'll sell it to some rich trader. By Crom!"

And in The God in the Bowl the story is about his active thieving.

[Klorox]

He might not *need* rogue levels, but there is good evidence that he was a trained thief.

From Queen of the Black Coast
"...Bel, god of thieves, is a good god. When I was a thief in Zamora I learned of him."

From Conan the Conqueror
"Well," Conan was recovering some of his resilient confidence, "there's no assurance that the thief will throw it away. If I know thieves—and I should, for I was a thief in Zamora in my early youth—he won't throw it away. He'll sell it to some rich trader. By Crom!"

And in The God in the Bowl the story is about his active thieving.
These quotes point more towards a criminal background than thief levels, IMO.

[Cybren]

These quotes point more towards a criminal background than thief levels, IMO.

His background is outlander- he comes from a foreign, rugged country. All his experience after he leaves Cimmeria are the start of his adventuring career. The Conan stories are out of order. His first story has him already as king of Aquillonia

[Gwendol]

His background is outlander- he comes from a foreign, rugged country. All his experience after he leaves Cimmeria are the start of his adventuring career. The Conan stories are out of order. His first story has him already as king of Aquillonia

Agreed. Following the link to the Conan bibliography above gives the stories in (roughly) chronological order. Background is outlander, and while a level of rogue isn't mandatory, it offers several benefits well reflected in the character (stealthy, opportunistic, not devoid of skills).

[2D8HP]

These quotes point more towads a criminal background than thief levels, IMO.
His background is outlander- he comes from a foreign, rugged country. All his experience after he leaves Cimmeria are the start of his adventuring career. The Conan stories are out of order. His first story has him already as king of AquilloniaAt different points in his life Conan's "background" could be:
Outlander,
Criminal,
Soldier,
Pirate, and
Noble.
"Background" is a rules mechanic's contrivance.
While only one "crunch" "background" is allowed, it is for easy for me to imagine PC's and NPC's as having more than one "fluff" backstory "backgrounds".
To use a different fictional character,
Sam Vimes from Terry Pratchett's Disc World series—
Young Vimes - Urchin background.
Adult Vimes - City Watch SCAG background
Later Vimes - Noble background (though he chaff's at the label).

[Gwendol]

That applies if you jump into play at those different points. If one were to start playing Conan at level 1, Outlander would be the background of choice. Others may fit at that point (Folk Hero?), but outlander is a great choice.

[2D8HP]

outlander is a great choice.Agreed. Both for "fluff", and "crunch".
For PC's I actually play, I like "Outlander"and "Urchin" best. And I also like the "Proficiencies" that come from the Fighter class, and the "Expertise" that comes from Rogue.
I haven't played a 5e PC yet that didn't have at least one level in either of those classes.

As good as "Barbarian" can be, it's difficult for me to imagine a "Conan" as just that.