Which of these would you choose for this Paladin's lv4 ASI?

[Hooligan]

Context:
0.5Orc Paladin of Vengeance who just hit level 4.
Str20, Dex13, Con15, Int10, Wis 12, Cha14
Party: Myself, Barbarian, Cleric, Sorcerer

Great Weapon Master: we are a stupid party who prefer to fight our way to a solution & I am a stupid player who likes to take foolish risks & see large damage rolls.
Resilient CON: bump 15 -> 16 & solidify that con save for concentration checks & many a monster attack
+2 Cha: 14->16; beef up spell smite DCs & at level 6 make that aura even more potent. I don't cast too many spells, preferring to spend my slots on smites, but an extra point to their DC's would make the smite spells more appealing.

The no-brainer would be to bump Str up to 20, but as it's already there...:smallcool:
I know none of these are poor choices, just curious as to which some of you would choose.

[JellyPooga]

For me it'd have to be Resilient. Your 20 Str will stand you in good stead offensively, so a defensive choice would seem in order.

[djreynolds]

Great weapon master, that 20 in strength will be huge now at level 4. It will die down at higher levels, so enjoy it now.

Or resilient con, not having a shield makes you easier to hit. Paralyzed sucks

[Gastronomie]

CHA is not too much of an issue with Paladins unless you plan on multiclassing into Sorcerer. This is because most Paladin spells don't require attack rolls or even saves. Most likely you're Divine Smiting. And when you aren't smiting, you are Blessing. (At least that's what I do with Paladins. Also, since Bless requires concentration and so does the Smite spells, I find myself eventually not using the Smite spells much, unless it's after I lost concentration by being hit.)

Aura of Protection is surely awesome, but the 10 feet radius is sorta troubling, and +2 or +3 is enough. +4 and then on is when you have nothing else to invest in, or if you rolled godly stats.

Since Bless is such a wonderful spell that will be your main weapon for your entire career as a Paladin, I would suggest either Great Weapon Master or Resilient.

I would most likely say GWM, since you're a Vengeance Paladin. Use the Vow of Enminity ability of Channel Divinity to gain advantage on your attacks, and swing in that +10. If there's a Bard, Wizard or someone in the party who can otherwise grant you advantage on attack rolls, or a Cleric who can Bless you, GWM becomes even more better.

Resilient CON is something you should eventually take anyway, but since proficiency bonus gets bigger at higher levels, I personally think Resilient is a feat that's best if you take it at mid-high levels (having +2 bonus to CON saves isn't as charming as a +3 or +4).

Either way, either one of the above two you don't take at level 4, take it at level 8, and you'll never, ever regret it.

[Corran]

Since you like big damage rolls (and since this works well with a vengeance paly), I would suggest GWM and resilient con before level 9 (when you get access to haste via your oath spells - losing con when concentrating on haste is a biggie). As for the order, I would probably go with GWM at level 4, and with resilient con at level 8 (edit: use bless until you get access to haste, that will pump your saves as well until you finaly get aura of protection and resilient con at 8. And I think that GWM will be a better defense than the few extra hp from resilient).

[Hooligan]

Thank you responders; I appreciate your advice. :smallsmile:

[Giant2005]

Resilient Con.
I wouldn't recommend taking GWM at all - with all of the damage bonuses available to you (now and in the future - Hunter's Mark, Improved Divine Smite etc), it will be a rare day that using GWM won't cost you DPR. If you want more damage, Polearm Master should be where you look.

[R.Shackleford]

Context:
0.5Orc Paladin of Vengeance who just hit level 4.
Str20, Dex13, Con15, Int10, Wis 12, Cha14
Party: Myself, Barbarian, Cleric, Sorcerer

Great Weapon Master: we are a stupid party who prefer to fight our way to a solution & I am a stupid player who likes to take foolish risks & see large damage rolls.
Resilient CON: bump 15 -> 16 & solidify that con save for concentration checks & many a monster attack
+2 Cha: 14->16; beef up spell smite DCs & at level 6 make that aura even more potent. I don't cast too many spells, preferring to spend my slots on smites, but an extra point to their DC's would make the smite spells more appealing.

The no-brainer would be to bump Str up to 20, but as it's already there...:smallcool:
I know none of these are poor choices, just curious as to which some of you would choose.

Actually getting strength to 18 or 20 isn't really that important until you hit level 8 and level 16... It'seemed nice but you will keep up with the game just fine without it. Most of your spike damage comes from smite and extra attack and you have multiple ways of getting advantage.

Charisma boost will help your DC and later you will add Cha mod to those concentration saves so I would go Cha.

For a feat... GWM doesn't really give you anything new. You will be pumping out damage.

I would seriously look at Mobile, being able to attack (free disengage) + move + attack another creature can help you out a lot and help you get to allies when needed.

Charger is another good one for a paladin. Yes you get extra attack but being able to Dash + Attack + Smite can straight up end a creature. This can help you save allies that are far away (60 or 80 feet if you combo with mobile)

Elemental Adept is interesting if you like to use elemental smite spells.

Tavern Brawler, turn your sword sideways to smack a creature with the broad side for your improvised weapon (level 5, 2 attacks) and a bonus action to grapple.

[Corran]

Resilient Con.
I wouldn't recommend taking GWM at all - with all of the damage bonuses available to you (now and in the future - Hunter's Mark, Improved Divine Smite etc), it will be a rare day that using GWM won't cost you DPR. If you want more damage, Polearm Master should be where you look.
Hmmm, oath of vengeance does have some tricks to support GWM. Agreed that IDS works against GWM, and that PM seems like a natural fit for paladins, but with haste (and bless before that), soul of vengeance at 15, and oath of enmity, it seems like a good fighting style. Even the fact that most of the oath's features dont require an action but rather a bonus action or a reaction instead, and the fact that from all the oaths it is maybe the one that makes the least use of charisma, thus leaving enough room to boost strength and nab a few feats too, all that makes GWMastering a good choice for vengeance palys. To add to that, that using haste on self is relatively safe for paladins, given their aura of protection (assuming resilient con is taken).

ps: I've been meaning for some time to discuss in this forum what weapon/feat support/race/etc fit with the different paladin oaths, but perhaps this thread is the wrong place to do so, so I will probably open a new one. No disrespect to the fanastic paladin guides and to the people who did a great job writing them, I would just like to see if there is anything of value we can deduce from an oath-to-oath analysis.

[Hooligan]

ps: I've been meaning for some time to discuss in this forum what weapon/feat support/race/etc fit with the different paladin oaths, but perhaps this thread is the wrong place to do so, so I will probably open a new one. No disrespect to the fanastic paladin guides and to the people who did a great job writing them, I would just like to see if there is anything of value we can deduce from an oath-to-oath analysis.

Do it! I think that would be a fantastic idea. Thanks for the input :smallsmile:

[R.Shackleford]

ps: I've been meaning for some time to discuss in this forum what weapon/feat support/race/etc fit with the different paladin oaths, but perhaps this thread is the wrong place to do so, so I will probably open a new one. No disrespect to the fanastic paladin guides and to the people who did a great job writing them, I would just like to see if there is anything of value we can deduce from an oath-to-oath analysis.

I've been meaning to put a handbook out about race. Not rating them about how good or bad they are, but what build (for each class) would be good for each race.


So each race would have a paladin build, fighter build, wizard build, etc...

[Corran]

I've been meaning to put a handbook out about race. Not rating them about how good or bad they are, but what build (for each class) would be good for each race.


So each race would have a paladin build, fighter build, wizard build, etc...
This sounds very interesting, and very original, and very.... time consuming, but I bet it will be a very interesting read! You could start with one race open it for discussion, and later fill the reserved posts with the other races. One at a time will cerainly be easier.



Do it! I think that would be a fantastic idea. Thanks for the input :smallsmile:
Your welcome. Started the thread I was talking about, you can find it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?494881-Paladin-oaths-weapon-of-choice-feat-support-race-and-action-economy&p=21009572#post21009572). It is a ponderous read as I ramble quite a bit, but feel free to give it a read and to contribute if you want to.

[R.Shackleford]

This sounds very interesting, and very original, and very.... time consuming, but I bet it will be a very interesting read! You could start with one race open it for discussion, and later fill the reserved posts with the other races. One at a time will cerainly be easier.


Actually... Yeah I think I'll go race by race and then later compile then into one big post/guide!

Holy crap that will be easier lol

Thank you :)

[energyscholar]

Does someone in the party already have the Inspiring Leader feat? That feat gives the entire party 6+ temporary HP at every short rest. If your team doesn't have it then it's probably the most beneficial feat you could take for the team. Probably by a pretty large margin. But then, not everyone is a team player.

[bid]

Context:
0.5Orc Paladin of Vengeance who just hit level 4.
Str20, Dex13, Con15, Int10, Wis 12, Cha14
Party: Myself, Barbarian, Cleric, Sorcerer
GWM is the best short term feat; with Str20 you hit way too often and smite could kill a target and open up the bonus attack.

Resilient (Con) is the best long-term feat. Hunter's mark is too slow to be valuable (if I remember the previous discussions). Once your proficiency is high enough, you'll know which concentration spell is your bread and butter.

Inspiring leader is the best party feat, sorcerer should take it since your Cha is too low. Boosting to Cha16 would help otherwise.


I prefer polearm master to GWM, it works better with IDS. But it might not match your RP style.

My proposed order:
- 4 = PAM
- 8 = Cha+2
- 12 = Resilient (Con)